Buffalo East Side Development

[Michele J]

The property flipping we have seen an abundance of is someone buying a property via foreclosure,HUD etc..Never even changing the locks and reselling them usually grossly misrepresenting the properties condition..
I have watched Flip this house and they rehab the houses which is terrific!
We dont see those types of Flips here because of the fraud ( being told its in move in condition when its falling down) I also agree the B/F area would be a great place to invest in as many good things are happening smart investors know that buying close to areas that are booming ( The Medical corridor,Downtown etc...) is a good thing to do... At the Cities IN REM auction in October MANY vacant lots were being purchased by out of state investors ( I would guess about 150-200 lots sold) and this is because they see the potential..
the B/F area will "comeback" I have no doubt and we will be kicking ourselves that we didnt invest when prices were so low..

[Right Wing]

personally I find it absolutely ironic that the african american community is so pro-government that they do not see how school vouchers and school choice would stop african american kids from being segregated in marginal schools at best with tests to safety, learning and pier pressure ... instead of achievement that they could find in schools of their choosing.

Do you have any African American friends who regularly visit your house and you over theirs?

What percent of the South Buffalo population do you think is African American Timmy?

Timmy, do you think the people of South Buffalo would welcome Middle Class African Americans? What neighbor in South Buffalo would be the best place for them to move into?

Timmy, If a Black had a school voucher, what school would you recommend they go to?

[nickelcityhomes]

It doesn't work in cities like Buffalo or Cleveland because real estate isn't appreciating in these inner city areas

Appreciation isn't the issue. Only buy and hold investors are concerned about appreciation, CAP rates, tenant relations, fundamental improvements, and quality of life issues. In other words, the buy and hold investor realizes those risks aren't worth the rewards in many areas of the east side.

A true flipper, one who makes basic improvements at a ratio that adds more value than the cost of repairs, isn't interested in most areas of the east side either. Even an investor soaking wet behind the ears realizes that it isn't worth their time unless they can net $10,000, conservatively, on the flip.

Let's consider a fruit belt property I considered buying to flip:

3 bed, 1 bath on a double sized corner lot. 1500 square feet.
Purchase price: $2,500.
Repairs needed to bring the effective age of the property to 1990 standards:
Roof: $3,000
Plumbing: $2,000
Electric: $2,000
Kitchens/Baths: $5,000
Drywall: $2,000
Carpeting/Flooring: $3,000
Fixtures: $1,000
Total investment: $17,000 + $2,500 purchase price + $1,000 closing costs = $21,500

After repair value: $40,000 based on comparable homes in the area.

Factor in holding costs over a three month flip period. This would include one month of repair time, then an IMMEDIATE sale to a qualified owner. The qualified owner in this neighborhood will typically require financing, which requires anywhere from 45-60 days to close.

Holding costs:
Utilities (assume non-winter season) - $40 gas, $75 electric, $30 water, $30 garbage. Total = $175 per month = $525.

Taxes: $75 per month = $225

Insurance. A builder's risk policy is required for non-occupied homes. This covers basic catastrophies, mostly limited to fire. Cost? $350 annually, paid up-front with no refund value.

Now, reconsider the cost of repairs. Those are based on doing the repair work with minimal help, and using immigrant labor whenever possible. Even the do-it-yourselfer will need to pay a professional, or incur additional holding costs. Furthermore, you can't leave your tools at the house overnight, because they WILL get stolen. You'll need to pay someone with a large revolver to stay in the house while it is being rehabbed and vacant. Cost: $??,???.

So now we're up to $22,600, without paying Kojack or Maddog to protect your property and tools while you sleep.

Now the property is looking fine and ready to sell. WNY Realtors usually won't consider selling a property for less than $3,000 in commissions ($1,500 split between selling/buying agent).

Then it's gonna cost another $1,000 to close, again.

That brings us up to $26,600, with a potential profit of $13,600.

But don't forget short term capital gains taxes. Anyone who can afford to climb out on a shaky limb and blow $22,600 is likely in a 25%, or above, federal tax bracket. Make it 28% to cover the state taxes. Now the 13,600 profit is reduced to $9,792.

Is it worth it? The stock market has a measure called "beta" which estimates risk versus expected reward. The flipping market has no formal measurement, but most reasonable investors wouldn't touch this deal. There are many who will, and they will likely lose their shirts because of cost overruns, vandalism, and over-inflated expected resale value.

Even a house with a solid foundation needing minimal repairs isn't worth $2,500 in that neighborhood. No amount of urban planning is going to change that. There simply isn't a demand, and that's why the flippers only operate on Ebay. That's why respectable flipping is dead on the the east side, not because of appreciation.

There are some significant opportunities on the east side, and particularly in the fruit belt due to the proximity of Roswell Park's bone marrow transplant center, but that's a niche market that few investors would be able to manage.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Timmy, If a Black had a school voucher, what school would you recommend they go to?

Just a point on the voucher as you clearly do not get it. If any child had a REAL voucher, they could choose to the abundance of schools that would open to collect said voucher and provide a better education then the current system.

If every kid in the city had a voucher for 9k, which is what NYS spends per student, you would see too many PRIVATLY funded schools open up over night. A small high school has about 800 students. That would be 7.2 million dollars. If said school were to want a 15 to 1 teacher to student ratio you would need 54 teachers. If each teacher cost 90k with perks, ins and 401k, that cost would be 4.8 Million. Then add three administrators @120k, total cost so far -5.1 million. Then add in 25 aids and support team @ 40k with perks, ins and 401k, total cost now at 6.1 million. Place 1.1 million for facilities and subcontracting services, you are at 7.2.

[biker]

Just a point on the voucher as you clearly do not get it. If any child had a REAL voucher, they could choose to the abundance of schools that would open to collect said voucher and provide a better education then the current system.

If every kid in the city had a voucher for 9k, which is what NYS spends per student, you would see too many PRIVATLY funded schools open up over night. A small high school has about 800 students. That would be 7.2 million dollars. If said school were to want a 15 to 1 teacher to student ratio you would need 54 teachers. If each teacher cost 90k with perks, ins and 401k, that cost would be 4.8 Million. Then add three administrators @120k, total cost so far -5.1 million. Then add in 25 aids and support team @ 40k with perks, ins and 401k, total cost now at 6.1 million. Place 1.1 million for facilities and subcontracting services, you are at 7.2.

Good budget, leftWNY. You'd replicate a St. Joe's every few miles.

Just what the doctor ordered.

And all non-union. Suhweet.

[Right Wing]

Just a point on the voucher as you clearly do not get it. If any child had a REAL voucher, they could choose to the abundance of schools that would open to collect said voucher and provide a better education then the current system.

If every kid in the city had a voucher for 9k, which is what NYS spends per student, you would see too many PRIVATLY funded schools open up over night. A small high school has about 800 students. That would be 7.2 million dollars. If said school were to want a 15 to 1 teacher to student ratio you would need 54 teachers. If each teacher cost 90k with perks, ins and 401k, that cost would be 4.8 Million. Then add three administrators @120k, total cost so far -5.1 million. Then add in 25 aids and support team @ 40k with perks, ins and 401k, total cost now at 6.1 million. Place 1.1 million for facilities and subcontracting services, you are at 7.2.

Please get off the high horse that only you "get it" and no one else does.

What you don't get is that the cost of a "non-resident" tuition at the University at Buffalo is $6,194.00 per semester, or, $12,388 per year.

The cost of a state resident for tuition is $3,064.00 per semester, or, $6,127 per year.

At your alleged $9,000 per student you would have us believe it is 33% cheaper to get an education at the University of Buffalo than it is to go to high school in NYS, for a state resident, and only 33% more expensive for a non-resident of New York State attend UB then the cost of high school.

You are selling everyone an poorly though out argument in a bad sales presentation. But no doubt the less educated among us will buy into your poor math.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Please get off the high horse that only you "get it" and no one else does.

What you don't get is that the cost of a "non-resident" tuition at the University at Buffalo is $6,194.00 per semester, or, $12,388 per year.

The cost of a state resident for tuition is $3,064.00 per semester, or, $6,127 per year.

At your alleged $9,000 per student you would have us believe it is 33% cheaper to get an education at the University of Buffalo than it is to go to high school in NYS, for a state resident, and only 33% more expensive for a non-resident of New York State attend UB then the cost of high school.

You are selling everyone an poorly though out argument in a bad sales presentation. But no doubt the less educated among us will buy into your poor math.

I stand corrected you giant tool. NY does not spend 9k per student. It spends 12k. Follow the link you moron.


What you point out is true. NYS spends more per student for k-12 then it costs to go to UB. Thanks for bringing that up. Gee, I wonder how that is.
Check your facts ass wipe!

New York's school spending is among highest in the country, Census Bureau finds
(March 17, 2005)

New York's spending on public schools is second-highest in the country, according to new statistics published by the U.S. Census Bureau.

As of 2002-03, New York schools spent an average of $12,140 per pupil. That was 51 percent above the national average, and second only to New Jersey's.

New York's schools led the country in per-pupil spending on school employee salaries and wages, according to the Census Bureau. The Empire State ranked third in spending on employee benefits, adjusted for enrollment. Employee pay and benefits made up the majority of total spending in New York and other states.

Per-pupil spending on school administration was higher in New York than in all but five other states. New York's public-school systems had outstanding debt averaging $8,076 per student, about 52 percent higher than the national average.

The Census report also provides financial data for more than 15,000 individual school districts across the country. Of the highest-spending 1,000 districts, 236 are in New York, according to the Census Bureau.

Elementary and secondary schools in New York spent a total $41.2 billion in 2002-03, according to the Census Bureau. Forty-seven percent of their revenue was from local sources, primarily the property tax. Another 46 percent was from state funding, and around 7 percent from the federal government.

The Census Bureau report is available at http://www.census.gov/govs/www/school03.html.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Good budget, leftWNY. You'd replicate a St. Joe's every few miles.

Just what the doctor ordered.

And all non-union. Suhweet.

Seeing since it is 12k not 9k, there will be gold plated keyboards on every computer in every classroom!

[Right Wing]

I stand corrected you giant tool. NY does not spend 9k per student. It spends 12k. Follow the link you moron.


What you point out is true. NYS spends more per student for k-12 then it costs to go to UB. Thanks for bringing that up. Gee, I wonder how that is.
Check your facts ass wipe!

New York's school spending is among highest in the country, Census Bureau finds
(March 17, 2005)

New York's spending on public schools is second-highest in the country, according to new statistics published by the U.S. Census Bureau.

As of 2002-03, New York schools spent an average of $12,140 per pupil. That was 51 percent above the national average, and second only to New Jersey's.

New York's schools led the country in per-pupil spending on school employee salaries and wages, according to the Census Bureau. The Empire State ranked third in spending on employee benefits, adjusted for enrollment. Employee pay and benefits made up the majority of total spending in New York and other states.

Per-pupil spending on school administration was higher in New York than in all but five other states. New York's public-school systems had outstanding debt averaging $8,076 per student, about 52 percent higher than the national average.

The Census report also provides financial data for more than 15,000 individual school districts across the country. Of the highest-spending 1,000 districts, 236 are in New York, according to the Census Bureau.

Elementary and secondary schools in New York spent a total $41.2 billion in 2002-03, according to the Census Bureau. Forty-seven percent of their revenue was from local sources, primarily the property tax. Another 46 percent was from state funding, and around 7 percent from the federal government.

The Census Bureau report is available at http://www.census.gov/govs/www/school03.html.

I see that when you discuss things you lower yourself to the baboon range and stomp your feet and begin bluster name calling. That explains why like the Neanderthals you will soon be extinct.

I read a joke here a while back that stayed in my mind. Nine laborers were sitting in a bar when Bill Gates walked in sat down and ordered a drink. The bar tender said to him, on average the patrons of this bar are billionaires.

Before you catch a cold from that big mouth of yours, did you ever consider that there is a huge cost of living problem in New York State which makes the use of averages in calculating costs, the home of people who can't figure things out.

I'll give you a place to go to so you can check the facts. You will find that Things cost twice as much in the New York city area than in the Buffalo area. I would say that your leaving this area was our gain and a loss to the poor state in which you now reside. Stay there PLEASE!

Try going to Bestplaces.net


"Our special Cost of Living feature lets you compare two cities side-by-side in all the categories you need, such as taxes, housing, food, and other costs. You can enter your salary and our built-in Salary Calculator will determine how much more (or less) you need to maintain your same standard of living.
• To maintain the same standard of living, your salary of $40,000 in Buffalo-Niagara Falls, New York should increase to $82,326 in New York, New York
• Stated another way, it's 105.8% more expensive to live in New York, New York than Buffalo-Niagara Falls, New York"

In spite of your illprepared and ill advised use of averages, it does not cost a student more to go to high school in the Buffalo area than it does to go to the University at Buffalo.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I see that when you discuss things you lower yourself to the baboon range and stomp your feet and begin bluster name calling. That explains why like the Neanderthals you will soon be extinct.

I read a joke here a while back that stayed in my mind. Nine laborers were sitting in a bar when Bill Gates walked in sat down and ordered a drink. The bar tender said to him, on average the patrons of this bar are billionaires.

Before you catch a cold from that big mouth of yours, did you ever consider that there is a huge cost of living problem in New York State which makes the use of averages in calculating costs, the home of people who can't figure things out.

I'll give you a place to go to so you can check the facts. You will find that Things cost twice as much in the New York city area than in the Buffalo area. I would say that your leaving this area was our gain and a loss to the poor state in which you now reside. Stay there PLEASE!

Try going to Bestplaces.net


"Our special Cost of Living feature lets you compare two cities side-by-side in all the categories you need, such as taxes, housing, food, and other costs. You can enter your salary and our built-in Salary Calculator will determine how much more (or less) you need to maintain your same standard of living.
• To maintain the same standard of living, your salary of $40,000 in Buffalo-Niagara Falls, New York should increase to $82,326 in New York, New York
• Stated another way, it's 105.8% more expensive to live in New York, New York than Buffalo-Niagara Falls, New York"

In spite of your illprepared and ill advised use of averages, it does not cost a student more to go to high school in the Buffalo area than it does to go to the University at Buffalo.

Are you a politician. You just said a whole bunch of nothing. I was knocking your claim that NYS did not spend 9k per student or more on K-12 then UB. Cost of living or not, 12k per kid is spent in NYS.

I proved that you were WRONG and you go into some speech about Bill Gates and the cost of living ad nauseam.

You are also correct that "it does not cost a student more to go to high school in the Buffalo area than it does to go to the University at Buffalo." It just costs the taxpayers more. Last time I checked, 14 year old kids don't get a bill.

[Right Wing]

Are you a politician. You just said a whole bunch of nothing. I was knocking your claim that NYS did not spend 9k per student or more on K-12 then UB. Cost of living or not, 12k per kid is spent in NYS.

I proved that you were WRONG and you go into some speech about Bill Gates and the cost of living ad nauseam.

You are also correct that "it does not cost a student more to go to high school in the Buffalo area than it does to go to the University at Buffalo." It just costs the taxpayers more. Last time I checked, 14 year old kids don't get a bill.

You didn't prove anyone wrong. You apparently are on the wrong thread. We are talking about costs in Buffalo, and this thread is particularly concerned with the Eastside. You apparenlty can't follow a simple thread. .

Why then did you bring up average New York State spending for education per pupil out of the clear blue sky on a thread discussing Buffalo East Side Development not stateweide education costs.

Why did you even reference the benefit school vouchers would bring to inner city schools on the premise that it would educate students for less than $9,000? Of course it would. No public high school education costs $9,000 per student in this area. So it is perfectly logical to assume you believe that the current cost of educating a student in Buffalo is $9,000 each.

You can either continue to say it is, or, you can say, no it is not anywhere near $9000 in Buffalo, but, the state average is $9,000. And it is due to the fact that the cost of living is twice as high in the metropolitan New York Area where two-thirds of the state population lives.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

You didn't prove anyone wrong. You apparently are on the wrong thread. We are talking about costs in Buffalo, and this thread is particularly concerned with the Eastside. You apparenlty can't follow a simple thread. .

Why then did you bring up average New York State spending for education per pupil out of the clear blue sky on a thread discussing Buffalo East Side Development not stateweide education costs.

Why did you even reference the benefit school vouchers would bring to inner city schools on the premise that it would educate students for less than $9,000? Of course it would. No public high school education costs $9,000 per student in this area. So it is perfectly logical to assume you believe that the current cost of educating a student in Buffalo is $9,000 each.

You can either continue to say it is, or, you can say, no it is not anywhere near $9000 in Buffalo, but, the state average is $9,000. And it is due to the fact that the cost of living is twice as high in the metropolitan New York Area where two-thirds of the state population lives.

You are just not worth it.

[biker]

Just have Wrona figger the cost per child and you two will come together.

He takes the entire State's budget and eliminates frivolities like utilities, janitorial services, maintenance and other silly, non-educational expenses.

He gets it down to the point where we spend less than Arkansas.

[Timmy]

and he is supposed to be rightwing...he should change his name to wrongwing

[300miles]

Lovejoy Businesses Eligible for Facelift

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/ar...12/post_48.php