Roof replacement permits; why and consequences of not having one

[Lee Chowaniec]

If Lancaster has a policy where homeowners need a permit, then that is the rule to be followed. We insisted on an Umbrella insurance policy for an extra layer of protection when we had our roof replaced. Our contractor was happy to comply. Homeowners insurance may or may not cover accidental falls from a roof during a re-roof.

That being said, our Building Department here in Lancaster is much too lax. People know full well they can do as they please and get away with it.

Well someone did not get away with it today. Council member Donna Stempniak advised town board attendees Monday night to contact the code enforcement officer if they suspected roof replacement work was being done without a permit. Stempniak declared the act was more to protect the homeowner having the roofing work done in case the homeowner was told by the roofer that he would get the permit, charged the party for the permit, and/or did not show prove of insurance or lied about it and now the homeowner was respnsible for liability.

Well someone took that advice and a code enforcement officer showed up at a home on Schwartz Road and had the roofers stop work, button the place up against leaks, and get a permit on Monday before continuing any more work. No permit had been applied for.

It was difficult to comprehend why this homeower had no permit as the individual is a town employee in an administrative capacity. If a permit is received it should be posted in a window or someplace obvious for the code enforcer or anyone else for that matter to view. It was not.

[gorja]

Wonder, which one of these Schwartz Rd residents is the town employee/code violator?

RICKETTSON RONALD S
HICKEL BETTY A LIVING
BORAWSKI DARRYL & W JANET
FRANK MICHAEL G
BEEMAN DARREN & W CHERYL
CZAJKA JOSEPH J
AUGUSTINE TAITE A & KIST CARYL
JAROSZ KENNETH & W KAREN
DOMANOWSKI SIGMUND &W APRIL
POWELL WALTER J & W
JAMES RICHARD & SALLY
BIELLI GIRARD
PETERSON RICHARD & W BARBARA
WIEAND JAMES R & W DONNA
KREAVY RONALD P & DEMBSKI
ALLEN DAVID
NARDOLILLO JANICE M
KUNTZ GERARD L & RUTH A
ZIKA PAUL J & W MARIE LIFE
KAUSHINGER BRIAN &W CRYSTAL
MACDIARMID LORRIE S
HERRINGTON EARL & W MARY SUSA
SCAGLIONE JAMES
PHILLIPS J CHAS & W MARGE
GERSPACHER NANCY
PIATKOWSKI MICHAEL & W
HENKE GARY C
TURSKI PAUL
GIRAS MARK E
WALL JAMIE & W BONNIE
POHLMAN DONNA M
HAUNGS II ROBERT &W LINDA
ALBERT SAMUEL
NEULAND JOHN & W KRISTINA
HARRIS WHITNEY J & W PHYLLIS
CORNELL DONALD A & W
STILLER THOMAS & W SHELLY
PRUSKI GERALD & W LENA
HASSETT JOHN F III
HORN ROSLYN
ALBERT CHRISTOPHER & W TRACY
DAKE GEORGE S & W LORRAINE M
ALBERT SAMUEL & W DONNA
BEDNARSKI THOMAS J / PROUT MARCIA A
THE DAKE FAMILY TRUST II LI
LOGA LEONARD J
PHILLIPS JOHN
PARUCKI GLENN & W LYNN
GUARI KEVIN & W SHARON
CHAMBERLIN KERRY &W PATTY
PLETSCHER LOREN & W KATHRYN
HART DENNIS J
WITTMEYER EDWARD
LAMB HOWARD W & W MARILYN
SZATKOWSKI ROBERT LIFE USE
REPKA MICHAEL
SZATKOWSKI FREDERICK & W
BEATTY JOHN & MARTHA
MARTZOLF HAROLD & W TRACY
BIALECKI EDWARD & W DONNA
ROMANOWSKI HENRY G
MORROW FRANK & W PATRICIA
HANFORD G GEROLD
BETTINGER T & TOBIN K
GIUSTINO STACI M
CROWN ATLANTIC CO LLC
KRZEMINSKI DONALD & DOUG
MOHN JAMES & W KAREN
DRIGGS JUSTIN &W KIMBERLY
HYMAN KEVIN & W LISA
SCHWARTZ JEFFREY & W KAREN
SYPNIEWSKI MARK & W JOYCE
KOWAL WALTER & W LISA
NELSON GARY & W MADGE T
NELSON GARY R & W MADGE
PLEWINSKI MICHAEL & W DAWN
MARTZ BRIAN & W LISA
SAUNDERS MARK & W KIMBERLY
POPIOL ARTHUR & W
KRZYSIAK STANLEY E & W
PARA GERARD A & W JOAN
PARA GERARD A & W JOAN
NAGOWSKI JONATHAN J/TIMOTHY C
DAVIS DARRYL J & W JENNY
HELMINIAK ROBT B & W BARBARA
MEEGAN KEVIN M
YOUNG JOHN G & W ELAINE R
SCHAFER GARY PETER JR & KARL ARTHUR
DURKIN KEVIN & W PHYLLIS
BARTZ ROBERT E
WAHL MICHAEL L
LUCIE MICHAEL J & W
SEVERYN WILLIAM SR & W HELEN
HARVEY ADELAIDE LIFE USE
SEVERYN MELLISA
ELLIOTT TIMOTHY B & W
RZESZUT WALTER LIFE USE
STULAK KENNETH & W STELLA
O'BARA DENNIS & W CINDY
GONZALES SUZIE
POMIETLARZ EUGENE & W PATRICIA
POMIETLARZ LAWRENCE J & W
PIWOWARSKI RICHARD & W
WILLIAMS DAVID E JR & W
FRIDMANN MICHL & W TAMERA
FOLEY DAWN MARIE
SORRENTO VINCENT & W NORMA
ZINK EDWARD R SR & W LORRAINE

[yaksplat]

I've done plenty of roofs; my own and for others and I've yet to get a permit for one.

[Lee Chowaniec]

I've done plenty of roofs; my own and for others and I've yet to get a permit for one.

In trying to understand your position, I have to ask:

• Are you a contractor, a roofer doing side jobs, or a friend helping other friends and/or family members?

• Have you done any roofing work in Lancaster? Some municipalities do not require permits.

• Are you self-insured or contractor insured to cover liability?

I, and many others like me in today’s world, feel comfortable having work done by contractors that have liability insurance.

I checked with my insurance agent and found because I have an umbrella insurance policy I am covered for $1.5 million in liability. Had I not had umbrella coverage the liability coverage would be $300,000. If someone believes that is enough coverage to cover a serious roofing accident, that is their determination to make. Some only have $100,000 liability coverage. One size doesn’t fit all.

On Sunday, a Lancaster Town employee got caught having a roof replacement without a permit. The code enforcement officer was summoned, stopped the project and told the roofers and homeowner that work was not to continue until a permit was obtained on Monday. The work continued and the roof job was completed by Sunday evening.
It will be interesting to see how the town reacts. What if the roofer is not insured and would not be able to get a permit. They can’t fine him as there is no policy in place to do so. Will the roofer even show up to get a permit? If they didn’t show, how will the town stop the roofer from doing the same again?

The homeowner is a Town employee. You would think he or she would know better and ensure either the roofer got a permit or they did waiving the roofer from having liability insurance and using their own insurance coverage. Perhaps the homeowner should be fined as well.

The point is that Lancaster does have an ordinance. But there is no policy in place to penalize the violators. Supervisor Fudoli declared at the last board meeting that he is looking at creating a system of deterrence not just hiring more help and adding cost to the department. Here’s your poster child Mr. Fudoli.

[Frank Broughton]

How about we just get back to minding our own business in America on issues that really do not effect us -- as in this issue?

[gorja]

The town employee should have known that there was no permit as it has to be visible.
And if the town employee was present when the CE officer put a halt to the roof work,
and then let the roof work be completed without the issuance of a permit, the
homeowner/town employee is culpable, IMHO.

[yokes]

The town employee should have known that there was no permit as it has to be visible.
And if the town employee was present when the CE officer put a halt to the roof work,
and then let the roof work be completed without the issuance of a permit, the
homeowner/town employee is culpable, IMHO.

Culpable to what?

Is lancaster going to seize the roof?

[Lee Chowaniec]

How about we just get back to minding our own business in America on issues that really do not effect us -- as in this issue?

As you don’t live in Lancaster, are you thinking out loud or referring to others that don’t live in Lancaster and post they never got a roof replacement permit, and never would.

This is the business of Lancaster residents as there is an ordinance in play and is so stated on the Town of Lancaster’s website under Building Department and reads:

Any structural changes, including roofs, accessory structures, sheds, pools, fences and decks require a building permit to be issued.

Now since this is a town requirement and all the reasons for it have already been stated, are you saying the homeowners who follow the rules should just shut up and watch those that break the rules skate free; both homeowners and roofers – and to just mind their own business?

Civil disobedience and/or breaking the law is ok with you, Frank? Loss of town revenue from those who feel above the law and violate the law is ok?

[Lee Chowaniec]

yokes;1356489]Culpable to what?

Not gtting a permit.

Is lancaster going to seize the roof?

Excellent point as up to now code violators have suffered no consequence; no one has been fined.

Like the roof permit ordinance or not, it is on the books. The homeowner who did not get a permit had the roofing work stopped by a code enforcement officer and was told not to complete the work until a permit was applied for and received. As soon as the code enforcement officer left work was commenced and the project was completed.

Now we will see how the town handles this. Will the town cite the homeowner, present a court appearance ticket, and will the town prosecutor and new Housing Court Judge prosecute the violator. If no action is taken then the ordinance has no teeth and the permit process becomes a money grab as some have stated.

[yokes]

Not gtting a permit.



Excellent point as up to now code violators have suffered no consequence; no one has been fined.

Like the roof permit ordinance or not, it is on the books. The homeowner who did not get a permit had the roofing work stopped by a code enforcement officer and was told not to complete the work until a permit was applied for and received. As soon as the code enforcement officer left work was commenced and the project was completed.

Now we will see how the town handles this. Will the town cite the homeowner, present a court appearance ticket, and will the town prosecutor and new Housing Court Judge prosecute the violator. If no action is taken then the ordinance has no teeth and the permit process becomes a money grab as some have stated.

Aside from collecting the permit cost after the fact what other options do they have?

[Frank Broughton]

As you don’t live in Lancaster, are you thinking out loud or referring to others that don’t live in Lancaster and post they never got a roof replacement permit, and never would.

This is the business of Lancaster residents as there is an ordinance in play and is so stated on the Town of Lancaster’s website under Building Department and reads:

Any structural changes, including roofs, accessory structures, sheds, pools, fences and decks require a building permit to be issued.

Now since this is a town requirement and all the reasons for it have already been stated, are you saying the homeowners who follow the rules should just shut up and watch those that break the rules skate free; both homeowners and roofers – and to just mind their own business?

Civil disobedience and/or breaking the law is ok with you, Frank? Loss of town revenue from those who feel above the law and violate the law is ok?

Oh boy, shall we go over this again. Listen carefully now... Lancaster is just as much mine as yours -- as if anyone even can say they own it. My opinion is just as valid as yours -- living where you live has no bearing - it is in Erie County and New State and The United States correct? Thought so...

Breaking the law is not okay with me. "Loss of town revenue" ohhhhh now I see, you care less about people and relationships, you are about your pocketbook...


No sir, mind your own business is a valid opinion on this issue...

[shortstuff]

Well someone did not get away with it today. Council member Donna Stempniak advised town board attendees Monday night to contact the code enforcement officer if they suspected roof replacement work was being done without a permit. Stempniak declared the act was more to protect the homeowner having the roofing work done in case the homeowner was told by the roofer that he would get the permit, charged the party for the permit, and/or did not show prove of insurance or lied about it and now the homeowner was respnsible for liability.

Well someone took that advice and a code enforcement officer showed up at a home on Schwartz Road and had the roofers stop work, button the place up against leaks, and get a permit on Monday before continuing any more work. No permit had been applied for.

It was difficult to comprehend why this homeower had no permit as the individual is a town employee in an administrative capacity. If a permit is received it should be posted in a window or someplace obvious for the code enforcer or anyone else for that matter to view. It was not.

Lee if that is truly the case and this town employee ignored the Code Enforcer's request to halt the project until a permit has been issued, I would suspect some penalty should be issued. I can't believe a town employee would ignore the laws of the town!

Who is this person, anyone know?

I wonder how Mr. Pease feels knowing that a colleague of his dismissed his request?

[Lee Chowaniec]

Aside from collecting the permit cost after the fact what other options do they have?

Exactly. As of now there are no options.

[Lee Chowaniec]

Frank Broughton;1356784]Oh boy, shall we go over this again. Listen carefully now... Lancaster is just as much mine as yours -- as if anyone even can say they own it. My opinion is just as valid as yours -- living where you live has no bearing - it is in Erie County and New State and The United States correct? Thought so...

Gibberish Frank, gibberish!

Breaking the law is not okay with me. "Loss of town revenue" ohhhhh now I see, you care less about people and relationships, you are about your pocketbook...

Nonsense and you know it. The typical Frank Broughton spin.

No sir, mind your own business is a valid opinion on this issue...

As you are not a Lancaster resident, take your own advice.

[Frank Broughton]

haha you funny Lee... borderline snobbish, but funny nonetheless.

Gibberish Frank, gibberish!
Nonsense and you know it. The typical Frank Broughton spin.
As you are not a Lancaster resident, take your own advice.

It is not nonsense, I think a person who thinks it is okay to blow their neighbors in, on something as petty as this, has some personality issues