Byron Brown going to destroy the city

[buffalojoe]

It amazes me that Byron Brown ran a campaign on the main issue that he was going to bring professionalism to city hall.
Although opposed by councilman Coppola a new law my be passed that will bring the department to the lowest level it has ever seen. Brown and Thompson (candidate for 60th senate seat against Coppola by the way) are proposing that They get rid of all the chiefs jobs and make them deputy commissioners. You may say oh OK whats wrong with that. I'll tell you right now in order to be a chief you have to be the rank of lieutenant and above. Which means you had to pass a civil service test to get that far. The deputy commissioner can be a police officer of any rank education or qualifications. So basically is brown wants to appoint his own people who where unable to qualify under the existing guidelines. this is just what we need more unqualified people running the city.
I'm not saying that the present system is the best because yes there are some people who passed the civil service test and shouldn't be in the position there in. There are some who have been bypassed even though they finished high on the list. Yes that is not fair. In fact its sickening.

Chant had it right in another thread. give a number and let them take the test let the best person win. We as a nation since 1970 have let our people down. Our ww11 parents spent a whole life fighting us to have a better life. The biggest battle that was ever fought was affirmative action and they elected to sit that one out. Well guess what that was the internal one that broke this countries back. They tried to mix neighborhood schools. They want to try and bring the afro-american kids to the level of the white kids. That worked great look at how wonderful our inner cities are. Then they lowered the qualifications for civil service. look at how wonderful and respected our police force is. Teachers where put into schools with minimum qualifications. Then the people who did pass and rank number one in there test scores where looked passed because of political favors.
What sickens me is nobody cares. I mean in this area who at one time was considered some of the smartest voters in the country are now the dumbest. why do I say dumb, well anyone who votes on the straight party ideology is a dummy. you should be voting for the best candidates not the party. look at these party members I wouldn't hire some of these people as a grocery clerk let alone a decision maker.
Yes I'm frustrated yes I'm not alone, yes I left the city that I dearly loved. yes it was because i have children like most of you and I'm worried about there education and safety. Yes I probably will leave this area when they finish high school. Unless all of NY gets there heads out of there butts and starts to speak up and vote these legislators out of office and get new ones to represent what the people want. Not what aclu, naacp, the republican and democratic party and these other b.s. organisations who hurt us more then the help us want.

[Chant]

Originally posted by buffalojoe
The deputy commissioner can be a police officer of any rank education or qualifications. So basically is brown wants to appoint his own people who where unable to qualify under the existing guidelines. this is just what we need more unqualified people running the city.

Oh god! Shades of Joel G.!
(Wonder if its too late to apply for the Chauffeur's position?)

Yup, the founding fathers left us with a pretty good basis for a fair government... then the career politicians came along and screwed it up.

I'm pretty much sick of this as BuffaloJoe is... and I'm thinking about bugging out myself sometime soon. The perfect thing would be to win the lottery and go buy myself a private island just outside US waters.

However, I'm beginning to think that's what the politicians want... they want to run everyone but the rich and politically elite out of NY state... then scarf-up all the property cheap and turn it into either a toxic waste dump for massive profit... or a vast retirement community for the weathy and connected.

Just my suspicions.

[steven]

Originally posted by buffalojoe
a new law my be passed that will bring the department to the lowest level it has ever seen. Brown and Thompson (candidate for 60th senate seat against Coppola by the way) are proposing that They get rid of all the chiefs jobs and make them deputy commissioners. You may say oh OK whats wrong with that. I'll tell you right now in order to be a chief you have to be the rank of lieutenant and above. Which means you had to pass a civil service test to get that far.

Exactly how does someones test score on the civil servants test prove they can do policemans job?

Originally posted by buffalojoe
They tried to mix neighborhood schools. They want to try and bring the afro-american kids to the level of the white kids. worked great look at how wonderful our inner cities are

Put your sheet up pal, the 50's are over. Sadly you will have to drink from the same fountain and eat in the same diners as people of color.

People like you are exactly what this area doesnt need. Please tell me when your on your way out I will have a fruit basket delivered (but dont worry not by anyone black). Once you find your white utopia tell us all how it works out for you.

[Pauldo]

Originally posted by steven
Exactly how does someones test score on the civil servants test prove they can do policemans job?




Put your sheet up pal, the 50's are over. Sadly you will have to drink from the same fountain and eat in the same diners as people of color.

People like you are exactly what this area doesnt need. Please tell me when your on your way out I will have a fruit basket delivered (but dont worry not by anyone black). Once you find your white utopia tell us all how it works out for you.

I heard the white utopia is in Idaho where Mark Furman resides.

[Linda_D]

Originally posted by Pauldo
I heard the white utopia is in Idaho where Mark Furman resides.

Yeah, and I think Furman's next door neighbor out there is David Duke.

Buffalojoe, if you're a member of the Buffalo Police Department, you are a disgrace to your uniform. If you're not, you're simply a disgrace to Tonawanda.

[buffalojoe]

First of all Let me tell you something I probably do more for the Afro-American community in one year then most of people do in a life time.
Second the way that our politicians have created these hiring practices tells the black community and women and every other minority one thing. It tells them that we have to lower the standards because you are not capable enough to compete for a job on equal terms.
Now to my friends who refers to the 50s. My friend when I grew up on the west-side I new everyone. Our neighbors were like extended family. Now you walk down to normal and mass in the heat of the summer and you may not ever walk again. So yes the quality of life as far as safety was better. Busing destroyed our heritages Italian German, Irish ,indian,hispanic, Afro-American, polish and many others. Every neighborhood had its own identity. Old people would walk to the store. kids would play in the playgrounds everyone new each other. If you got in trouble on one street and walked home nine blocks. Your parents would get a phone call from 9 different people telling them you did wrong. No sir I miss the old neighborhoods.
Linda I will never be ashamed of myself my dear. I treat everyone with respect. No I was not a Buffalo police officer.( even though I no 40% of the department) I was a police officer in Virginia in the early eighties. Not very long I do say. I am to protective and my emotions take over. If someone was to hurt a women or a child I just lose it.
Linda honestly I have tons of friends from all walks of life. There are plenty of people out there that agree with me and there are plenty that agree with you. Shoot I have friends black and white I argue with. It doesn't mean I don't love them or respect them. I made and argument on why I feel society has taken the wrong turns. Your answer is to throw personal insults against me. Who should be ashamed of themselves.
To my friend who brought up David Duke and Mark Furman. I would really love to meet you. (Linda I would love to meet you to). I would love to see and hear what your background is. Its hard to know what a person is saying unless you see into there eyes.

[Pauldo]

Originally posted by Linda_D
Yeah, and I think Furman's next door neighbor out there is David Duke.

Buffalojoe, if you're a member of the Buffalo Police Department, you are a disgrace to your uniform. If you're not, you're simply a disgrace to Tonawanda.

I think Linda D has spent to much time at the Lucille Ball Theater in Jamestown.

[citymouse]

Affirmative action destroyed our neighborhoods?
Busing too?
While I am not a fan of either program I would have to say white flight urban sprawl and big box retailers setting up shop in the suburbs have contributed a little more to the down fall of our urban core.
And Drugs.
More than anything else drugs have destroyed this city.Don't you think it's ironic that any suburban white guy who never set foot over the city line can drive into the inner city and in minutes drive out with a bag of heroin, a crack rock, or some coke and the cops who work the streets every night can't catch the drug dealers?
There is a lot more acting as a cataylst of decay than busing and affirmative action.
Give Brown a chance. Just because he is black dosen't mean they are going to be throwing chicken bones and watermellon rinds out the windows of city hall. Or that he is going to destroy the Buffalo police department by appointing inept administrators.
My friends in the police department all supported Brown. They hated Diina and could wait for him to be gone. Guys with years in the department said the Diina years were the absolute worse, a dark stain, in the history of the Buffalo Police Department.
They seem to think it will only get better. I agree.

[steven]

Originally posted by buffalojoe
Now to my friends who refers to the 50s.

I referred to the 50's, not Linda, and I am not, nor will I ever be a racists friend

Originally posted by buffalojoe
They tried to mix neighborhood schools. They want to try and bring the afro-american kids to the level of the white kids. worked great look at how wonderful our inner cities are

You showed your true colors with that remark. You can back peddle and sugar coat all you want but its pretty obvious where your coming from. Its people like you that saw your kid going to school with one black kid and ran away in horror thus destroying Americas "inner City".

You want someone to blame? Take a look in the mirror.

[Chant]

Oh Boy... how did this turn into such a racial issue?

I myself went to a public school and I worked hard for my education. In fact, I was going to school when they first came up with the busing idea, and it was as dumb then as it still is today.

Each and every public school through out the city should have been the same, if the students were willing to apply themselves and put the work into learning, they all have the same opportunity for a fair education.

The problem... some people couldn't be bothered to do that. Instead they caused trouble, trashed the school they attended, made it impossible for those who wanted to learn to do so, and basically did everything they could to just throw away their own chance the city and society gave them.
And then people started crying they didn't get a proper education.

The political solution: bus everybody around the city and throw another burden on city taxpayers to pay for the idea.
How about this idea instead.... just throw the troublemakers out. Be disruptive in class - bye-bye, destroy school property - see ya!, screw around and not do the work - oh well, your fault. Go to summer school or go get a GED on your own dime then.
Yeah, poor education leads to making criminals - heard it all before. Nice excuse, bottom line is - you had the same opportunity to make something of yourself, but you chose to be lazy instead.

Busing kids accross the city when there was a public school three blocks from home was and is a stupid idea... and just sucks money out of Mr. & Mrs. Citzen's pockets.

The point I believe BuffaloJoe was making was do we really need more unqualified people in high positions in law enforcement?
Actually in any positions of power that we have given over the everyday person? Did we not learn our lesson with Joel the Vampire when he started appointing family and friends to positions?
We as the people paying the taxes - do not deserve substandard personnel in public service positions that our tax money goes for.
Would you pay for cable TV that only got 3 channels? How about from now on we demand the best for our money... and the best person in positions that we place our trust in everyday.
That kinda makes sense to me.

[buffalojoe]

The comment about Dina, yes he was a terrible commissioner and totally unqualified. I don't think he was ever anything but a patrolman. Detective Eddie Cotter wrote a wonderful article in art voice. I new det. Cotter since he first came on and he is what being a policeman is all about. He lit Dina up like a Christmas tree from everything he hasn't done. I agree with him a thousand %.
To Steve, You my friend are clueless. In 1996 my then 5th grade daughter was standing in a lunch line and was stabbed by a girl with a pencil in the back. That same summer I chased three drug dealers away from my home as they decided to have a shoot out in the yard behind me. At the time I was having a birthday party for my then five year old in my yard. No my friend its not about black and white I myself have 5 inter-racial family members. I love them dearly. My friend its about putting qualified people in jobs that effect the way the rest of us live. Look at our politicians nation wide. Of all the people in the world that's the best we can come up with is The Bush's the Clinton's Kerry and that other idiot chairmen.
I would vote for Condi Rice in a heart beat. Now there's a a person with credentials. She is brilliant. Oh yes she is also Afro-American. Oh yes her grandmother refused to letter fall to the lower standards that the white Government and weak black leaders fought for.
Talking about those same leaders they are organizing a gathering of some 15,000 people to honor a convicted executed murder in California. You my friend should read some of the philosophies of Bill Cosby. Then call him a racist. No you no nothing about people. You think by giving something to someone for nothing is good. Well we did it your way for the last 35 years. Our schools in the inner city are in shambles. All I hear from the boards is that we need more money. Bull crap we need more. People with your philosophy should leave town and raise our standards higher. We need to make parents accountable. We need to rescue these 8-15 year old from gang recruitment. Oh you don't no about the 10 year old selling crack in school. No that doesn't happen everyday. Why do you think they want to be able to search kids. Because the criminals no the law and they use them. That's why there is a huge effort to stop the searching of children. The criminal depends on the weak people like you who live in a dream world. I wish you weren't such a coward I would really like to bring you to meet some of the ghetto kids that I have worked with. Then call me a racist in front of them.
Now back to Byron Brown I no Byron personally in fact I had his kid at a camp that my group runs for inner city kids.( we brought 60 kids from the west-side ,east-side tonawanda and my girls also went) Its helps them with self esteem, discipline , team work and we show these kids what they need most love and attention. It also shows them that they are all human beings and they need to work hard and apply themselves to get a head.
I don't no if you ever been in the military my friend. When you arrive at boot camo your a rainbow. We come from all walks of life. They put 50 guys in a room who come from all over and say you have six weeks to eight weeks to be one. Its the most incredible feeling when you graduate from boot camp and your standing next to those 50 guys because of what you have accomplished. It really gives youi the feeling of belonging and earning something good. You should really think about that.
That being said I have nothing against Byron as a person I just don't want to see grass roots or anyone organization influence him on how to run the city. He said he was going to put qualified professionals in those jobs. All I want to see is him stick by his word and do just that.

[steven]

Originally posted by Chant
Oh Boy... how did this turn into such a racial issue?

Memo to alter ego 2:

Originally posted by buffalojoe
They tried to mix neighborhood schools. They want to try and bring the afro-american kids to the level of the white kids.

That's how it turned into a racial issue.

Your though process disgusts me so much I cant even bring myself to engage you in conversation. You lost all credibility with those 2 sentences. Trying to back peddle now and say you have interracial family and black friends makes you look even more ludicrous. If I where you I would just leave it alone.

[Chant]

Originally posted by steven
Memo to alter ego 2:




That's how it turned into a racial issue.

Your though process disgusts me so much I cant even bring myself to engage you in conversation. You lost all credibility with those 2 sentences. Trying to back peddle now and say you have interracial family and black friends makes you look even more ludicrous. If I where you I would just leave it alone.

It seems to me that you have gone out of your way to take those two sentences in a anti-racial context. To me it appears that BuffaloJoe was only stating the purpose of Affirmative action within the school system. Nowhere did I read where he went on to indicate he thought this was a bad thing, that black people were beneath white people, or that minorities should be keep at a lower level or standard then non-minorities. It was just a bare statement in simple English, perhaps without the politically correct candy coating we've all grown so use to. Its just the man's style of writing and not much more.
Now if he came off spouting KKK and White Supremacist dribble and then waving about the fact he has interracial family and black friends - then I would say you had cause to bash his credibility.

But latching onto two simple sentences and just saying they indicate racism without any further supporting evidence - just says to me you're looking for a fire where there isn't any.
Sometimes the words just mean what they simply say and nothing more - no matter how blunt or inelegant our senses find them. Give the guy the benefit of a doubt and be a little more tolerant. We all have times when putting our thoughts into words or written form doesn't come off as smoothly as we would like to others.

And as for me being Joe's alter-ego...
Don't really think so. I do believe Joe and I have butted heads on a few other issues and will probably do so again in the future.
It just so happens I get the gist of what he's trying to say on this thread and happen to basically agree with his points.
Rest assured that if he comes out with something I disagree with, I'll call him on it and (hopefully with the same respect I'd like to afford everyone else) argue my view. Until then, I just have to bow and say - yeah, I agree with that.

[Linda_D]

Originally posted by Chant
Nowhere did I read where he went on to indicate he thought this was a bad thing, that black people were beneath white people, or that minorities should be keep at a lower level or standard then non-minorities. It was just a bare statement in simple English, perhaps without the politically correct candy coating we've all grown so use to. Its just the man's style of writing and not much more.
Now if he came off spouting KKK and White Supremacist dribble and then waving about the fact he has interracial family and black friends - then I would say you had cause to bash his credibility.

Originally posted by buffalojoe
They tried to mix neighborhood schools. They want to try and bring the afro-american kids to the level of the white kids. That worked great look at how wonderful our inner cities are. Then they lowered the qualifications for civil service. look at how wonderful and respected our police force is. Teachers where put into schools with minimum qualifications.

Sorry, Chant, but it's not "the man's style of writing". A writing style involves how words are used in sentences not the thoughts that they represent. Abe Lincoln wrote began his Gettysburg Address with the line "Four score and seven years ago ..." which is more poetic than "Eighty-seven years ago ..." but the meaning behind the words is the same. That's style of writing.

It's NOT the "man's style of writing" that's the problem with the lines above, it's the man's bigoted thinking. Slice it and dice it however you want to, Chant, it still comes out saying that integration and "affirmative action" is bad because it "lowered the standards", and it's aimed against Blacks.

Personally, I find that offensive. Not because I'm African American (I'm not; I'm Italian and Polish.), but because I'm a woman, and affirmative action was also used to open doors for women into the sacred ranks of the white men only police department, fire department, city hall management, and the public schools administration. Any time you want to compare education, job history, and Civil Service test scores, I'll stack mine up against yours and/or buffalojoe's any day.

BTW, what exactly does your mother's maiden name have to do with whether you are qualified to program computers? That was a question -- among several others that clearly violated NYS Civil Service Law -- that was included on a "pre-interview" application I was sent from ol' Jimmy Griffin's office after I scored #1 on the civil service test for that position. Obviously, they had to weed out the top scoring candidates to get down to where Jimmy's "boy" was reachable.

[biker]

Just a few short years after the battle cry of "Equality of opportunity" became law, "equality of outcome" replaced it. Because it was taking too long for equality of opportunity to produce the "right" results.

Affirmative action produced winners and losers. The losers were most often the sons of families whose last names ended in a vowel or "cz". Anyone speaking in their behalf was (and is) branded as some sort of skinhead.

The people who came up with these schemes know these regulations won't apply to their sons and daughters. They just send them to different schools. I never heard of an affirmative action program for lawyers and Bakke put a quick end to it for doctors.

These high-minded folks still reveal themselves from time to time. Like shrilly demanding that the Indians preserve grain silos, symbols of the people that took their land.

Elitists as insensitive clods. What a concept!!