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Thread: Bush authorizes illegal Spying on US Citizens

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Bush authorizes illegal Spying on US Citizens

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051216/...E0BHNlYwN0bWE-




    Bush defends policy after eavesdropping report By David Morgan
    Fri Dec 16, 4:40 PM ET



    President George W. Bush on Friday refused to discuss a report that he secretly authorized a U.S. agency to eavesdrop on people in America but said everything he does to protect the public against terrorism is within the law.

    The New York Times said Bush signed a secret presidential order after the September 11, 2001, attacks to allow the National Security Agency to track the international telephone calls and emails of hundreds of people without the court approval normally required for domestic spying.

    The report added to critics' concerns that the White House violated civil rights while pursuing the war on terrorism it declared after the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

    Bush and other administration officials declined to comment specifically on the report, but said he stayed within the law while acting to protect people from further attacks.

    "We do not discuss ongoing intelligence operations to protect the country, and the reason why is that there's an enemy that lurks, that would like to know exactly what we're trying to do to stop them," Bush said.

    "I will make this point. That whatever I do to protect the American people, and I have an obligation to do so, that we will uphold the law, and decisions made are made understanding we have an obligation to protect the civil liberties of the American people," he said.

    He was speaking in an interview with PBS's "The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer" to be broadcast later on Friday.

    The Times said the 2002 directive to the NSA marked a major shift in U.S. intelligence-gathering and led some officials to question whether the strategy violated constitutional limits on legal searches.

    The NSA, based at Fort Meade, Maryland, is authorized to monitor communications on foreign soil.

    An NSA spokesperson declined to comment on the report.

    CONCERN FROM CIVIL LIBERTIES ADVOCATES

    Americans have been wary of domestic monitoring by intelligence agencies since it was learned in the 1970s that the Pentagon spied on civil rights and anti-Vietnam War groups. That led to legislation imposing strict limits on intelligence gathering inside the United States.

    The Bush administration has faced criticism over a range of rights issues in its declared war on terrorism, including its treatment of detainees.

    On Friday, a group of senators calling for increased protection of civil liberties blocked renewal by Congress of the USA Patriot Act, an anti-terrorism law passed soon after the September 11 attacks. It expanded the federal government's authority to share information, conduct secret searches and obtain private records.

    Civil liberties advocates condemned what they viewed as illegal and unconstitutional NSA activities.

    "The administration is claiming extraordinary presidential powers at the expense of civil liberties and is putting the president above the law," Caroline Fredrickson, Washington legislative director for the American Civil Liberties Union, said in a statement.

    John Negroponte, U.S. director of national intelligence, has said in interviews that the country is safer now partly due to more integration of international and domestic espionage.

    A Democratic congressional official involved in intelligence oversight said, "The lesson we learned from 9/11 -- more than how the intelligence was organized, more than information-sharing -- was that we had been doing an abysmal job of learning what terrorists might be doing inside our own country."

    He added, "But as part of the process of overseeing intelligence, I hope whatever we're doing, we're doing in compliance with all applicable laws and regulations."

    The New York Times cited some officials as saying questions about the NSA's new powers led the administration to suspend the operation last year and impose more restrictions.

    It said the administration informed the leaders of the Senate and House intelligence committees about the program. But other lawmakers said on Friday there was a need for greater disclosure to Congress.

    "We need to look into that," remarked Republican Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record) of Arizona, who said he had heard only media reports about the NSA program. "We should be informed as to exactly what's going on, and then find out whether an investigation is called for. All we have is initial reports."

    (Additional reporting by Tabassum Zakaria and Doina Chiacu)
    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis (1935)

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    I'm confused by this.

    Was Bush's action here illegal or not? He says it wasn't illegal, but I'm not prone to believe anything he ever says.

    Does anyone know where in the law what he did can be proven legal?

    I recognize the need for this might exist as regards terrorism. But what checks and balances exist to make sure it is not abused?

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    I'm a lot less concerned with the actions of our leaders than I am about what the people who think cutting off someone's head are planning to do.

    We weren't at war with any of these people when they took down the towers. How do you fight a group of stateless terrorists.

    Maybe they listened in while I was in New Brunswick and called home. Ooh wee. I'm not concerned.

    What an inflammatory headline in The News about this. If it had been the Clinton administration, the lead-in sentence would have been "After careful consultation with key members of Congress, the government has engaged in a limited program of audio surveillance of known foreign agitators.
    Truth springs from argument among friends.

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    "I'm a lot less concerned with the actions of our leaders..."
    WHY DOES THAT NOT SUPRISE ME AT ALL?

    "We weren't at war with any of these people when they took down the towers."
    CHECK THE "REAL" NEWS, MR. WHO GIVES A SH** IF ....ANYBODY ELSE DIES!!
    (turn off FOX for at least "once" in your life)

    HOW MANY IRAQIES WERE IN THE PLANES THAT ..."TOOK DOWN THE TOWERS" ???
    IRAQ - NONE !!! I REPEAT N - O - N - E !!!! ZIP...NADA !!

    THE MAJORITY WERE FROM..... SAUDIA ARABIA, IN CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW. (mr. Bushees little buddies)

    YOUR DOUBLETALKIN IS ..... WAY BEYOND PATHETIC !!!
    ___________________________________________

    Jack Cafferty on the administration: JUST DO IT !

    Jack spelled out all the abuses that have been conducted by this administration since it took over office in about one minute.

    3.2 meg
    http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TSR...Just-do-it.wmv

    Who cares if the Patriot Act get's renewed. Want to abuse our civil liberties-
    Just do it!

    Who cares about the Geneva conventions? Want to torture prisoners-
    Just do it!

    Who cares about rules concerning the identity of CIA gents. Want to reveal the name of a covert operative?
    Just do it!

    Who cares about whether the intelligence concerning WMD's is accurate. You want to invade Iraq?
    Just do it.

    Who cares about qualifications to serve on the nation's highest court. Want to nominate a personal friend with no qualifications?
    Just do it.

    And the latest outrage, which I read about in "The New York Times" this morning, who cares about needing a court order to eavesdrop on American citizens. Want to wiretap their phones conversations?
    Just do it

    .... What a joke. A very cruel, very sad joke

    ______________________________________________

    President Bush has personally authorized a secretive eavesdropping program in the United States more than three dozen times since October 2001, a senior intelligence official said Friday night.
    ______________________________________________

    "For 24 hours, Bush and other top administration officials refused to confirm the existence of their secret domestic spying program, arguing that doing so ....would endanger the American people...

    OR MAYBE ENDAGER ALL THEIR HIGHLY SECRET OPPORTUNITIES AT LITTLE THINGS LIKE....
    OBTAINING "INSIDER TRADING" INFO, ETC.

    SCREW THE LAWS......JUST DO IT !
    _______________________________________________

    "James Bamford, author of two books on the NSA, said the program could be problematic ....
    "I didn't hear him specify any legal right, except his right as president, which in a democracy doesn't make much sense."

    "Today, what Bush said is he went around the law, which is a violation of the law — which is illegal."
    _______________________________________________

    THIS GUY, BAMFORD, HAS GOT TO BE A COWARD, LIAR, SCUMBAG, ...."*******" !!!!

    (thought I'd save biker some "typing" time.) I just felt like doing it

  5. #5
    Member mikewrona's Avatar
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    Originally posted by atotaltotalfan2001
    I'm confused by this.

    Was Bush's action here illegal or not? He says it wasn't illegal, but I'm not prone to believe anything he ever says.

    Does anyone know where in the law what he did can be proven legal?

    I recognize the need for this might exist as regards terrorism. But what checks and balances exist to make sure it is not abused?
    My problem with it all is the fact that if they had gone to a judge and asked for a warrant the White House would have gotten what they wanted.

    The question is why didn't they want to get a warrant? Their actions were illegal.

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    Perhaps if some of these Bush haters lost a member of their family or a friend in the 911 attacks, they wouldn't be so quick to bash everything the administration has done to ensure the safety of every American Citizen.

    I'm from the NYC area. I have friends who lost a family member that day. I watched, in horror, fear and despair, as the the city I call home was terrorized by a group of wacko's calling themselves martyrs.

    If The gov't listened in on my phone call to my mother back in NYC, so what? Oh, they sure have the "goods" on me now.

    The one thing the Bush haters can't stand is the fact that because of the actions of the Bush administration ...

    THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANOTHER ATTACK ON US SOIL.

  7. #7
    Member mikewrona's Avatar
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    Originally posted by RaginTaxpayer
    Perhaps if some of these Bush haters lost a member of their family or a friend in the 911 attacks, they wouldn't be so quick to bash everything the administration has done to ensure the safety of every American Citizen.

    I'm from the NYC area. I have friends who lost a family member that day. I watched, in horror, fear and despair, as the the city I call home was terrorized by a group of wacko's calling themselves martyrs.

    If The gov't listened in on my phone call to my mother back in NYC, so what? Oh, they sure have the "goods" on me now.

    The one thing the Bush haters can't stand is the fact that because of the actions of the Bush administration ...

    THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANOTHER ATTACK ON US SOIL.
    So you think putting all the Japanese Americans in POW camps during WWII while confiscating all their property because "they might do something" was a good thing?

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    Michael J. Woods, who was chief of the FBI's national security law unit when Bush signed the NSA directive, described the ongoing program as "very dangerous." In the immediate aftermath of a devastating attack, he said, the decision was a justifiable emergency response. In 2006, "we ought to be past the time of emergency responses. We ought to have more considered views now. . . . We have time to debate a legal regime and what's appropriate."

    Staff writers Charles Lane and Walter Pincus and researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.

    © 2005 The Washington Post Company

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    If The gov't listened in on my phone call to my mother back in NYC, so what? Oh, they sure have the "goods" on me now.
    You cannot see any danger "whatsoever" in the gov't having absolutely total free reign to tap into any and all phone lines??

    Your absolutely right "who cares" about your ...conversation with your mother.

    What about total top secret (unknown to the public) phone taps into Wall St. outlets, firms?? Or companies about to "make it really big" or "bite the big one" ? We already have insider trading getting worse & worse. Bill Frist with unlimited secret phone taps? Guys like Randy Cunningham? Dick ??

    Do you think that "honesty" is rampant & unimpeccible throughout our government officials??
    Look up all your honest officials in power. Half of them are already under inditement or investigation.

    Democracy?? Can you NOT see the danger of the "powers that be" having phone taps into any or all phones of the opposing party thats running against them ???

    You ain't thinking of the "big picture" - AT ALL - as our leaders have, that put us in this ****storm.
    It was THEIR DECISIONS that made this mess, and you want to keep giving them MORE POWER?? PLEASE!! GIVE ME A BREAK!!

    You bush lovers - bush made big oil unaccountable !!!
    WHAT WAS THAT RESULT ??
    (one example, I'm sick & tired of pointing out all the crap & abuses)

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    Suit Decries New Secrecy in Government
    December 7, 2005
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/s...462061,00.html

    WASHINGTON (AP) - Breaking a tradition of openness that began in 1816, the Bush administration has without explanation withheld the names and work locations of about 900,000 of its civilian workers, according to a lawsuit filed Tuesday.
    ________________________________________________

    This administration has effectively removed itself from all means of accountability...and the public is blissfully letting it happen....

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    The one thing the Bush haters can't stand is the fact that because of the actions of the Bush administration ...THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANOTHER ATTACK ON US SOIL.
    WHEN THERE IS ANOTHER ATTACK ON US SOIL...

    It'll be... because of the actions of the Bush administration ...just like 911 was.

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    Originally posted by mikewrona
    So you think putting all the Japanese Americans in POW camps during WWII while confiscating all their property because "they might do something" was a good thing?
    Absolutely yes, I do.

    Forgotten amidst all the self-righteous mea culpas is one tiny fact:

    It worked!

    There was not one act of sabotage by the Japanese in America during WW II.

    PInheads use this obvious fact as proof that it wasn't needed.

    Wrong.

    It worked.
    Truth springs from argument among friends.

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    First of all it wasn't secret and he did go to the war panal judge along with key congressmen. Republicans and Democrats.
    No secret. In fact I'm surprised it is just coming out now concidering he told Democrats.
    Nor is it illegal when you are commander and chief. He has every right to instate martial law if he needs to. He didn't.
    I'm certian all the Bush haters would rather have that.

    It was after the attacks that that was authorised and as pointed out it worked. We have caught and thwarted attacks here and abroad due to our spying and interrogation.
    That's torture to those anti Bu****es.
    Yet We sit here in this country, safe, unharmed and finding better ways to protect our nation.
    e may have gotten more accomplished without the endless accusations agianst the Bush administration and any major Republican party member.
    The non stop attacks agianst anything and everything this administration shows that the Dems are only after one thing and that is the return to power. Not the safety and security of our nation.
    I hope that the Republicans get their heads out of their ass and start punching back at the Dems. They do not have clean closets and what goes around comes around.

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    Member mikewrona's Avatar
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    Originally posted by biker
    Absolutely yes, I do.

    Forgotten amidst all the self-righteous mea culpas is one tiny fact:

    It worked!

    There was not one act of sabotage by the Japanese in America during WW II.

    PInheads use this obvious fact as proof that it wasn't needed.

    Wrong.

    It worked.
    You are very intellectual. Did you go to Roget's Thesaurus to come up with the word "pinhead."

    Let me guess: You are a White Supremacist? You have to be because we didn't do the same to the Germans and there was no German Sabotage either.

    I wonder if being 4,000 water miles from Europe and 7,000 water miles from Japan had anything to do with it?

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by LHardy
    First of all it wasn't secret and he did go to the war panal judge along with key congressmen. Republicans and Democrats.
    No secret. In fact I'm surprised it is just coming out now concidering he told Democrats.
    Nor is it illegal when you are commander and chief. He has every right to instate martial law if he needs to. He didn't.
    I'm certian all the Bush haters would rather have that.

    It was after the attacks that that was authorised and as pointed out it worked. We have caught and thwarted attacks here and abroad due to our spying and interrogation.
    That's torture to those anti Bu****es.
    Yet We sit here in this country, safe, unharmed and finding better ways to protect our nation.
    e may have gotten more accomplished without the endless accusations agianst the Bush administration and any major Republican party member.
    The non stop attacks agianst anything and everything this administration shows that the Dems are only after one thing and that is the return to power. Not the safety and security of our nation.
    I hope that the Republicans get their heads out of their ass and start punching back at the Dems. They do not have clean closets and what goes around comes around.

    I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the (insert a new word) for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisable with (insert a new word) and (insert a new word) for all.

    It appears you don't agree with the old pledge.

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