Bush authorizes illegal Spying on US Citizens

[biker]

Originally posted by mikewrona
and there was no German Sabotage either.

You are ignorant of history.

And generally dumb.

Consult a dictionary to see the difference.

[mikewrona]

Originally posted by biker
You are ignorant of history.

And generally dumb.

Consult a dictionary to see the difference.

Wow, you've been over come by exhaust fumes. There were two failed sabotage attempts in the U.S. during all of WWII and both by German in 1942 - One on Long Island and the other in Jacksonville, FL.

No Germans were interred in POW camps and no German property was confiscated.

Are you representative of the educated American Biker class?
You are an embarassment to my Harley and BMW riding friends.

[DR_GONZO]

Bottomline, terrorists want to destroy and end our freedoms. This has been stated over and over and over again. Who are the terrorists here?

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross"-Sinclair Lewis

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism."-George Washington

"True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else."-Clarence Darrow

"Loyalty to your country always; loyalty to your government when it deserves it."-Mark Twain

"The end of democracy, and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of the lending institutions and moneyed incorporations."-Thomas Jefferson

"if tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."-James Madison

[mikewrona]

Originally posted by DR_GONZO


"The end of democracy, and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of the lending institutions and moneyed incorporations."-Thomas Jefferson

"if tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."-James Madison

Interesting.

[WestSideJohn]

Spying on U.S. citizens is illegal and probably un-Constitutional. You remember the Constitution, right? Old piece of paper the President swore - under oath - to defend? Yes, that's the one. I'm disappointed, but not at all suprised, to see LHardy and Biker excusing this simply because their party is reponsible.

[LaNdReW]

Originally posted by biker
I'm a lot less concerned with the actions of our leaders than I am about what the people who think cutting off someone's head are planning to do.

We weren't at war with any of these people when they took down the towers. How do you fight a group of stateless terrorists.

Maybe they listened in while I was in New Brunswick and called home. Ooh wee. I'm not concerned.

What an inflammatory headline in The News about this. If it had been the Clinton administration, the lead-in sentence would have been "After careful consultation with key members of Congress, the government has engaged in a limited program of audio surveillance of known foreign agitators.

It only took 2 posts to mention clinton...you guys are getting slow...

What would have happened if clinton did this??
The Republicans would have gone after his head.

[LaNdReW]

Originally posted by RaginTaxpayer
Perhaps if some of these Bush haters lost a member of their family or a friend in the 911 attacks, they wouldn't be so quick to bash everything the administration has done to ensure the safety of every American Citizen.

I'm from the NYC area. I have friends who lost a family member that day. I watched, in horror, fear and despair, as the the city I call home was terrorized by a group of wacko's calling themselves martyrs.

If The gov't listened in on my phone call to my mother back in NYC, so what? Oh, they sure have the "goods" on me now.

The one thing the Bush haters can't stand is the fact that because of the actions of the Bush administration ...

THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANOTHER ATTACK ON US SOIL.

You forgot to add......9/11 HAPPENED WHEN BUSH WAS PRESIDENT

[LaNdReW]

Originally posted by avet
WHY DOES THAT NOT SUPRISE ME AT ALL?


CHECK THE "REAL" NEWS, MR. WHO GIVES A SH** IF ....ANYBODY ELSE DIES!!
(turn off FOX for at least "once" in your life)

HOW MANY IRAQIES WERE IN THE PLANES THAT ..."TOOK DOWN THE TOWERS" ???
IRAQ - NONE !!! I REPEAT N - O - N - E !!!! ZIP...NADA !!

THE MAJORITY WERE FROM..... SAUDIA ARABIA, IN CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW. (mr. Bushees little buddies)

YOUR DOUBLETALKIN IS ..... WAY BEYOND PATHETIC !!!
___________________________________________

Jack Cafferty on the administration: JUST DO IT !

Jack spelled out all the abuses that have been conducted by this administration since it took over office in about one minute.

3.2 meg
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TSR...Just-do-it.wmv

Who cares if the Patriot Act get's renewed. Want to abuse our civil liberties-
Just do it!

Who cares about the Geneva conventions? Want to torture prisoners-
Just do it!

Who cares about rules concerning the identity of CIA gents. Want to reveal the name of a covert operative?
Just do it!

Who cares about whether the intelligence concerning WMD's is accurate. You want to invade Iraq?
Just do it.

Who cares about qualifications to serve on the nation's highest court. Want to nominate a personal friend with no qualifications?
Just do it.

And the latest outrage, which I read about in "The New York Times" this morning, who cares about needing a court order to eavesdrop on American citizens. Want to wiretap their phones conversations?
Just do it

.... What a joke. A very cruel, very sad joke

______________________________________________

President Bush has personally authorized a secretive eavesdropping program in the United States more than three dozen times since October 2001, a senior intelligence official said Friday night.
______________________________________________

"For 24 hours, Bush and other top administration officials refused to confirm the existence of their secret domestic spying program, arguing that doing so ....would endanger the American people...

OR MAYBE ENDAGER ALL THEIR HIGHLY SECRET OPPORTUNITIES AT LITTLE THINGS LIKE....
OBTAINING "INSIDER TRADING" INFO, ETC.

SCREW THE LAWS......JUST DO IT !
_______________________________________________

"James Bamford, author of two books on the NSA, said the program could be problematic ....
"I didn't hear him specify any legal right, except his right as president, which in a democracy doesn't make much sense."

"Today, what Bush said is he went around the law, which is a violation of the law — which is illegal."
_______________________________________________

THIS GUY, BAMFORD, HAS GOT TO BE A COWARD, LIAR, SCUMBAG, ...."*******" !!!!

(thought I'd save biker some "typing" time.) I just felt like doing it

Nice......

Using the argument that Bush did it to protect us..... well, if we just lob nukes around the world, that would protect us too.

{Deep in the mind of a REP/CON}
What do we do now???
I know, bring up a non-issue.....
LETS BUILD A WALL BETWEEN US AND CANADA!!!!!

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by WestSideJohn
Spying on U.S. citizens is illegal and probably un-Constitutional. You remember the Constitution, right? Old piece of paper the President swore - under oath - to defend? Yes, that's the one. I'm disappointed, but not at all suprised, to see LHardy and Biker excusing this simply because their party is reponsible.

I'm worried because there appear to be no checks and balances with this spying scheme.

How do we know if the people being spied upon are involved with terrorists?

It seems like the kind of arrangement that is ripe for abuse.

[dtwarren]

This issue poses some interesting questions which transends contexts.

Let us first note what protections we are provided. The United States Constitution prohibits unreasonable search and seizures by the government.

Let us assume that a government agency is unlawfully monitoring the telephone calls between A and B. That during this monitoring they obtain information that C and D have committed a crime. Based on the information obtained unlawfully from A and B they secure a search warrant and ultimately indict C and D on charges.

Can C and D challenge the search warrant because it is based on unlawfully obtained evidence? No. The only two people that can make that challenge is A and B. C and D have no standing to assert the rights of A and B and the evidence obtained pursuant to the search warrant based on unlawfully obtained information is admissible against them. See United States v. Bynum, 513 F.2d 533, 535 (2d Cir.) (co-conspirators whose conversations were not intercepted, and who have no possessory interest in the premises subjected to electronic surveillance, lack standing), cert. denied, 423 U.S. 952, 46 L. Ed. 2d 277, 96 S. Ct. 357 (1975).

These scenarios occured before the Patriot Act and will occur after the Patriot Act and regardless of who is in office.

[Stevenco]

...and THIS protects us from terrorism, how?

[300miles]

This is concerning, but let's cut out the rhetoric, misinformation, and Clinton vs Bush idiocy.

* The wiretaps are for international calls. Not ALL calls.

* Congressional leaders (Dems and Repubs) were notified of this long ago.


I'm not saying this makes it OK. I'm just saying let's stick to the facts.

[avet]

Originally posted by RaginTaxpayer
Perhaps if some of these Bush haters lost a member of their family or a friend in the 911 attacks, they wouldn't be so quick to bash everything the administration has done to ensure the safety of every American Citizen.

I'm from the NYC area. I have friends who lost a family member that day. I watched, in horror, fear and despair, as the the city I call home was terrorized by a group of wacko's calling themselves martyrs.

THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANOTHER ATTACK ON US SOIL.

WARNING : BROADBAND REQUIRED

http://fluxview.com/v/911/StartHere/

LOOSE CHANGE 1 (47 meg)
http://fluxview.com/v/911/StartHere/...20Part%201.wmv

LOOSE CHANGE 2 (47 meg)
http://fluxview.com/v/911/StartHere/...oseChange2.wmv
Facts presented 11 min into the video, to me, were very interesting, and new to me.

911 Bomb_Montage (10.5 megs)
http://fluxview.com/v/911/StartHere/...mb_Montage.WMV

[WestSideJohn]

Here's the bottom line:

Does this spying violate US law and/or the Constitution? If the answer is yes, then the reasons and justifications for it are irrelevant. Now, I'm hearing quite a few people from all across the political spectrum saying this spying does indeed violate US law and/or the Constitution. I'm not 100% convinced - yet - but they're making a solid case so far. Perhaps one of our legal-type posters can chime in with more information.

[Stevenco]

http://www.eff.org/bloggers/lg/