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Thread: So Be It

  1. #1
    Member CacTus's Avatar
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    Cool So Be It

    THE LAW IS THE LAW

    So if the US government determines that it is against the law for the words "under God" to be on our money, then, so be it.


    And if that same government decides that the "Ten Commandments" are not to be used in or on a government installation, then, so be it.


    And since they already have prohibited any prayer in the schools, on which they deem their authority, then so be it.


    I say, "so be it," because I would like to be a law abiding US citizen.


    I say, "so be it," because I would like to think that smarter people than I are in positions to make good decisions.


    I would like to think that those people have the American Publics' best interests at heart.


    BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I'D LIKE?


    Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God and cannot Post His Commandments in Government buildings,


    I don't believe the Government and it's employees should participate in the Easter and Christmas celebrations which honor the God that our government is eliminating from many facets of American life.


    I'd like my mail delivered on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving & Easter. After all, it's just another day.


    I'd like the US Supreme Court to be in session on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving & Easter as well as Sundays. After all, it's just another day.


    I'd like the Senate and the House of Representatives to not have to worry about getting home for the "Christmas Break." After all it's just another day.


    I'm thinking that a lot of my taxpayer dollars could be saved, if all government offices & services would work on Christmas, Good Friday & Easter.


    It shouldn't cost any overtime since those would be just like any other day of the week to a government that is trying to be "politically correct."


    In fact....


    I think that our government should work on Sundays (initially set aside for worshipping God...) because, after all, our government says that it should be just another day....


    What do you all think????


    If this idea gets to enough people, maybe our elected officials will stop giving in to the minority opinions and begin, once again, to represent the 'majority' of ALL of the American people.


    SO BE IT...........


    Please Dear Lord, Give us the help needed to keep you in our country!


    'Amen' and 'Amen'


    These are definitely things I never thought about but from now on, I will be sure to questions those, in government, who support these changes.


    At the top, it says "I hope this makes its way around the USA several times over!!!!!"


    Let's see that it does. Keep it in your mailbox and resend it whenever someone new comes along.

  2. #2
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    I couldn't agree more.
    Great post!

  3. #3
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    I don't think the Government is in any way preventing you from praying to your God anytime you please and in any venue you please. They are just asking that you not force everyone to do it with you.

    Simple isn't it?
    Americans don't solve social problems...they just move away from them

  4. #4
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    The question leets is do you agree then that the christian holidays of time off should be also removed from the government benefits program?

  5. #5
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    The Real Story of Christmas
    http://www.historychannel.com/exhibi...tmas/real.html
    -----------------------------
    An Ancient Holiday
    The middle of winter has long been a time of celebration around the world. Centuries before the arrival of the man called Jesus, early Europeans celebrated light and birth in the darkest days of winter. Many peoples rejoiced during the winter solstice, when the worst of the winter was behind them and they could look forward to longer days and extended hours of sunlight.

    In Scandinavia, the Norse celebrated Yule from December 21, the winter solstice, through January. In recognition of the return of the sun, fathers and sons would bring home large logs, which they would set on fire. The people would feast until the log burned out, which could take as many as 12 days. The Norse believed that each spark from the fire represented a new pig or calf that would be born during the coming year.

    The end of December was a perfect time for celebration in most areas of Europe. At that time of year, most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter. For many, it was the only time of year when they had a supply of fresh meat. In addition, most wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking.

    In Germany, people honored the pagan god Oden during the mid-winter holiday. Germans were terrified of Oden, as they believed he made nocturnal flights through the sky to observe his people, and then decide who would prosper or perish. Because of his presence, many people chose to stay inside.
    ------------------------------

    Evolution of Santa
    http://www.historychannel.com/exhibi...mas/santa.html
    -----------------------------
    The Legend of St. Nicholas

    The legend of Santa Claus can be traced back hundreds of years to a monk named St. Nicholas. It is believed that Nicholas was born sometime around 280 A.D. in Patara, near Myra in modern-day Turkey. Much admired for his piety and kindness, St. Nicholas became the subject of many legends. It is said that he gave away all of his inherited wealth and traveled the countryside helping the poor and sick. One of the best known of the St. Nicholas stories is that he saved three poor sisters from being sold into slavery or prostitution by their father by providing them with a dowry so that they could be married. Over the course of many years, Nicholas's popularity spread and he became known as the protector of children and sailors. His feast day is celebrated on the anniversary of his death, December 6. This was traditionally considered a lucky day to make large purchases or to get married. By the Renaissance, St. Nicholas was the most popular saint in Europe. Even after the Protestant Reformation, when the veneration of saints began to be discouraged, St. Nicholas maintained a positive reputation, especially in Holland.
    ------------------------------

    http://www.history.org/christmas/hist_customs.html
    Christmas Customs
    -----------------------------
    By Emma L. Powers
    Christmas in colonial Virginia was very different from our twentieth-century celebration. Eighteenth-century customs don't take long to recount: church, dinner, dancing, some evergreens, visiting--and more and better of these very same for those who could afford more. It's certainly a short list, I tell myself, as I plan meals, go shopping, bake cookies, write three hundred cards, stuff stockings, and dog-ear or recycle the hundreds of catalogs that begin arriving at my house in October.

    Attend church, stick some holly on the windowpanes, fix a great dinner, go to one party, visit or be visited. It sounds so refreshingly easy and simple and quick. But I'd miss a tree with lots of lights and all my favorite ornaments collected over the years. And if there were only one special meal, how could I hope to eat my fill of turkey and goose, both mince pie and fruitcake, shrimp as well as oysters? Materialist that I am, I would surely be disappointed if there were no packages to open on the morning of December 25.

    Our present Christmas customs derive from a wide array of inspirations, nearly as various and numerous as the immigrants who settled this vast country. Most of the ways Americans celebrate the midwinter holiday came about in the nineteenth century, but we're extraordinarily attached to our traditions and feel sure that they must be very old and supremely significant. What follows is a capsule history of some of our most loved Christmas customs. Perhaps both residents and visitors will enjoy learning the background of one or more of these rites. I offer them in the spirit of the season: with best wishes for continuing health and happiness to all!

    Christmas, a children's holiday? No eighteenth-century sources highlight the importance of children at Christmastime--or of Christmas to children in particular. For instance, Philip Vickers Fithian's December 18, 1773, diary entry about exciting holiday events mentions: "the Balls, the Fox-hunts, the fine entertainments. . ." None was meant for kids, and the youngsters were cordially not invited to attend. Sally Cary Fairfax was old enough to keep a journal and old enough to attend a ball at Christmas 1771, so she was not one of the "tiny tots with their eyes all aglow." The emphasis on Christmas as a magical time for children came about in the nineteenth century. We must thank the Dutch and Germans in particular for centering Christmas in the home and within the family circle.

    Gift giving. Williamsburg shopkeepers of the eighteenth century placed ads noting items appropriate as holiday gifts, but New Year's was as likely a time as December 25 for bestowing gifts. Cash tips, little books, and sweets in small quantities were given by masters or parents to dependents, whether slaves, servants, apprentices, or children. It seems to have worked in only one direction: children and others did not give gifts to their superiors. Gift-giving traditions from several European countries also worked in this one-way fashion; for example, St. Nicholas filled children's wooden shoes with fruit and candy in both old and New Amsterdam. (Eventually, of course, "stockings hung by the chimney with care" replaced wooden shoes.) We must attribute the exchange of gifts among equals and from dependents to superiors to good old American influences. Both twentieth-century affluence and diligent marketing has made it the norm in the last fifty years or so.

    Santa Claus too is an American invention, although an amalgam of American, Dutch, and English traditions: partly the lean, ascetic Saint Nicholas, he is also related to the bacchanalian Father Christmas. While many countries and ethnic groups have a Christmastime gift bringer, the "right jolly old elf" dressed in red and fur and driving his sleigh and reindeer sprang from the pen and imagination of New Yorker Clement Clark Moore. In his 1823 poem "A Visit from Saint Nicholas," Moore created the new look for the Christmas gift-giver. Cartoonist Thomas Nast completed the vision with his 1860s drawings that still define how we see Santa.

    Christmas cards. Printers have been cashing in on Christmas since the eighteenth century--at least in London and other large cities. Schoolboys (and I do mean only the young males) filled in with their best penmanship pages pre-printed with special holiday borders. "Christmas pieces" they were called. But the Christmas card per se was a nineteenth-century English invention.

    Garlands and greens. Decorations for the midwinter holidays consisted of whatever natural materials looked attractive at the bleakest time of year--evergreens, berries, forced blossoms--and the necessary candles and fires. In ancient times, Romans celebrated their Saturnalia with displays of lights and hardy greenery formed into wreaths and sprays. Christian churches have long been decorated for Christmas. The tradition goes back so far that no one knows for certain when or where it began.

    No early Virginia sources tell us how, or even if, colonists decorated their homes for the holidays, so we must rely on eighteenth-century English prints. Of the precious few--only half a dozen--that show interior Christmas decorations, a large cluster of mistletoe is always the major feature for obvious reasons. Otherwise, plain sprigs of holly or bay fill vases and other containers of all sorts or stand flat against windowpanes. (I cannot tell for sure how these last were attached; perhaps the stems were merely stuck between the glass and the wooden muntins.)

    Christmas trees. If we had to choose the one outstanding symbol of Christmas, of course it must be the gaily decorated evergreen tree with a star at the very top. German in origin, "Tannenbaum" gained acceptance in England and the United States only very slowly. The first written reference to a Christmas tree dates from the seventeenth century when a candle-lighted tree astonished residents of Strasbourg. I have found nothing recorded in the eighteenth century about holiday trees in Europe or North America. By the nineteenth century a few of the " German toys" use Charles Dickens's phrase) appeared in London. But these foreign oddities were not yet accepted. When a print of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert's very domestic circle around a decorated tree at Windsor Castle appeared in the Illustrated London News in 1848, the custom truly caught on.

    At about the same time, Charles Minnegerode, a German professor at the College of William and Mary, trimmed a small evergreen to delight the children at the St. George Tucker House. Martha Vandergrift, aged 95, recalled the grand occasion, and her story appeared in the Richmond News Leader on December 25, 1928. Presumably Mrs. Vandergrift remembered the tree and who decorated it more clearly than she did the date. The newspaper gave 1845 as the time, three years after Minnegerode's arrival in Williamsburg. Perhaps the first Christmas tree cheered the Tucker household as early as 1842.

    Christmas foods and beverages. Everyone wants more and better things to eat and drink for a celebration. Finances nearly always control the possibilities. In eighteenth- century Virginia, of course, the rich had more on the table at Christmas and on any other day, too, but even the gentry faced limits in winter. December was the right time for slaughtering, so fresh meat of all sorts they had, as well as some seafood. Preserving fruits and vegetables was problematic for a December holiday. Then as now, beef, goose, ham, and turkey counted as holiday favorites; some households also insisted on fish, oysters, mincemeat pies, and brandied peaches. No one dish epitomized the Christmas feast in colonial Virginia.

    Wines, brandy, rum punches, and other alcoholic beverages went plentifully around the table on December 25 in well-to-do households. Others had less because they could afford less. Slave owners gave out portions of rum and other liquors to their workers at Christmastime, partly as a holiday treat (one the slaves may have come to expect and even demand) and partly to keep slaves at the home quarter during their few days off work. People with a quantity of alcohol in them were more likely to stay close to home than to run away or travel long distances to visit family.

    Length of the Christmas season. Eighteenth-century Anglicans prepared to celebrate the Nativity during Advent, a penitential season in the church's calendar. December 25, not a movable feast, began a festive season of considerable duration. The twelve days of Christmas lasted until January 6, also called Twelfth Day or Epiphany. Colonial Virginians thought Twelfth Night a good occasion for balls, parties, and weddings. There seems to have been no special notice of New Year's Eve in colonial days. (Maybe that is to be expected since Times Square was not yet built and Guy Lombardo had not been born.) Most music historians agree that the song "The Twelve Days of Christmas" with all its confusing rigmarole of lords a-leaping and swans a-swimming was meant to teach children their numbers and has no strong holiday connection.

    In the late 1990s the Christmas season seems to begin right after Halloween and comes to a screeching halt by Christmas dinner (or with the first tears or first worn-out battery, whichever comes first). We emphasize the build-up, the preparation, the anticipation. Celebrants in the eighteenth century saw Christmas Day itself as only the first day of festivities. Probably because customs then were fewer and preparations simpler, colonial Virginians looked to the twelve days beyond December 25 as a way to extend and more fully savor the most joyful season of the year.

    Lou Powers is an historian in the department of Historical Research at Colonial Williamsburg. This article is reprinted from The Colonial Williamsburg Interpreter, vol. 16, no. 4, winter 1995-96.
    ---------------------------

  6. #6
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    As far as I know, the US Government is not restricting anyone's rights to worship as they wish, and the fact that there are Christian Holdays that are also National Holidays is irrelevant.

    I don't feel persectued. Why do others?

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    and the fact that there are Christian Holdays that are also National Holidays is irrelevant.

    But isn't the point the seperation of church and state? That is the reason this is moving forward.
    So be it.
    Seperate religious holidays from the government paid holidays.
    Why should they get their cake and eat it too?

  8. #8
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    When did people start posting mass-email forwards?

    The phrase 'under God' should not come out of the pledge. I thought that issue was settled and it stayed in, anyway.

    I also think it's nuts that the ten commandments would be removed from a courthouse. Perhaps if they were called the "Ten Recommendations," they'd be allowed. But those dumb*ss southern hicks are the same ones who are trying to discredit the Theory of Evolution. So maybe removing the commandments is a step in the right direction. Separate church and state and the kids there can get a decent science education. You gotta be an idiot to think Intellignet Design is a valid theory.

    As for working on Christmas, Good Friday, and whatever... no way. I'm already off on those days. I think I should be off on Chanukah, Ramadan, Kwanzaa, the Wacky Scientology Celebration, Festivus, and Juneteenth. Then it'll be dandy.

  9. #9
    Member citymouse's Avatar
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    If all goverment workers are off on Christmas then who plows the snow? I know I usually work on that day have for years.
    Must be some other goverment worker you are refering to.
    "If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gave it to."

    By the way, what happened to biker? I miss the old coot.

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    If all goverment workers are off on Christmas then who plows the snow? I know I usually work on that day have for years.

    That's the point. Workers wouldn't be off, unless a personal, sick day was used or not scheduled to work. Just no holiday pay.

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by citymouse
    If all goverment workers are off on Christmas then who plows the snow? I know I usually work on that day have for years.
    Must be some other goverment worker you are refering to.
    And I'm sure you got more than straight time compensation for this.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by LHardy
    If all goverment workers are off on Christmas then who plows the snow? I know I usually work on that day have for years.

    That's the point. Workers wouldn't be off, unless a personal, sick day was used or not scheduled to work. Just no holiday pay.
    Well, as you probably know, this is already in effect. A lot of places give their employees a certain numbr of days off a year. Sick days, personal days, holidays are lumped together. Time and a half or even double time is paid for working the three big holidays of the year, such as Christmas, Thanksgiving and New Years Day, which ensures coverage.
    The American worker puts in more time than the rest of the world, not less as was forecast decades ago. Technology was supposed to cut hours and improve quality of life, but the corps used it to cut back on the work force and save money that way, leavng the intact workers with more time spent at work and less pay. The officers of the companies are the only ones who benfitted.

  13. #13
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    if you really think we are not restricted let your child try to bring their Holy book into school they don't even have to open it it is not allowed. let them try to wear clothing with religious sayings on it they will be sent home but witchcraft images are allowed that is a religion also.
    In court you will not be allowed on most juries if you are very active in your chosen faith.
    public workers get double time or better on holidays (holy days) even sundays usually pay double time. and most who work a holyday will also still get the holyday pay. yes holiday pay plus overtime. separation of church and state only when it benifits the government
    I offend carry a small bible with me and many times I have been asked not to open it, and that includes some resturants, I am not a preacher but many times i stop after a church function and forget I have my pocket Bible with me, it hurts when I sit to long on it so I place it on the table near me, Just having it causes fear that i will force my religion on them. I wont ever do that.
    in government buildings I have to admit I put it in my pocket to see where it cant go. most government buildings wont stop me. but I have been told to leave it at the door more then once.
    My church used to collect toys for the marine toy drive, we were told we were no longer welcome as a church. we collected more then a thousand toys every year and they were not religious toys they just could not have a church working with the marines
    One good thing about growing old is your secrets are safe with your friends they can't remember them either

  14. #14
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    posted by speaker
    The American worker puts in more time than the rest of the world
    That is true. Yet it may also be one of many reasons we are the most prosporus nation in the world.

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    Originally posted by LHardy
    The question leets is do you agree then that the christian holidays of time off should be also removed from the government benefits program?
    you and i both know that christmas has become more of a secular holiday than a christian holiday. i have jewish friends who buy gifts for christmas.

    by the way holiday ie. holy-day is no longer a word with religeous conotations.

    you are free to practice your religion in this country. you are not free to drag everyone else into it.

    it is that simple.
    Americans don't solve social problems...they just move away from them

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