Erie County Tea Party

[Flutter]

"I believe every person should have free health care."

No, you believe some people should be forced at gunpoint to pay for the health care of others. That's slavery. You believe that people are resources to be used. I don't.

Besides, "free health care" is a kind of fantasy concept. Whatever is in the minds of its proponents cannot exist. Since all resources are scarce, state-run health care will be rationed by bureaucrats over whom, like all bureaucrats, you will have, as an individual, zero control. Life and death decisions, and decisions about your most personal and familial issues, will be made by bureaucrats.

This is a deal breaker for me.

I will not ever deal with a state-run medical system. I will either leave the country or leave the country when I need a doctor.

What do you think happens now?

Except the Bureaucrats currently making the decision aren't directly accountable to you, they're only accountable to their shareholders. If it's state run, at least we get to vote for the people who appoint the Bureaucrats. It's not ideal, but it's better then the current situation.

But perhaps you've never been or known someone in the position of needing a procedure that's not covered.

You wind up paying for the uninsured through higher premiums anyways. What part of "you're paying for it already" doesn't register? You *are* paying for it now, at least if it's government controlled there will be some transparency and accountability.

[Jim Ostrowski]

From LewRockwell.com this morning
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/025936.html

March 21, 2009
Natasha Richardson and "Medical Capital"
Posted by Bill Anderson at March 21, 2009 06:55 AM

In writing about socialist medical care like they have in Canada, one of my points has been that socialist systems tend to be undercapitalized, as in such a system, capital becomes a liability rather than an asset. For example, the county where I work has about 80,000 residents and has as many MRI machines as does Montreal, which has several million people living in the area.

One doctor has pointed out that it took close to three hours to drive Richardson from Mount Tremblant to the trauma center in Montreal because Quebec has no medical helicopter system, unlike the USA, where such helicopters are common.

We should not be surprised. In Canada, no medical device has the capability of producing an income, so hospitals and medical care facilities often lack what is common in this country. For example, if a hospital or medical practice here purchases an MRI, that machine is able to provide an income to the provider as patients use it.

However, because no one can charge medical consumers for anything in Canada, the decision to purchase an MRI machine is purely one of cost. Medical facilities have only so much money to use, and the purchase of a device that performs MRIs means funds are drawn away from paying medical workers.

I remember a dentist friend telling me about visiting a dental clinic in Germany, which has had socialized medical care for years. He said it was like stepping back into the 1960s.

So, Ms. Richardson, RIP. Unfortunately, we are going to learn all of the wrong lessons from this sad event, as David Kramer has pointed out.

[Jim Ostrowski]

I am radically opposed to the current health care system. I favor a free market. As with any mixed economy, the current system is always tendiing toward socialism, as one failed intervention leads to others.

A couple years ago, my father sat in the ER for two days. As I waited with him, of course, I pondered why. Lack of a profit motive. No one in that room of 25 workers made any more money if they told us WTF was going on than if they ignored us with is exactly what they did.

But boy, did Amy and I get fantastic service last night at Bravo! at the Galleria in one of our rare nights out.

God I love the free market!

[Jim Ostrowski]

The experiment with partial medical socialism--Medicare and Medicaid has failed miserably. Trillions spent with no proof of any net benefit to the people's health. Medicine has been bureaucratized and politicized. The price of health care has been bid up. We still have a two-tiered system so the goal of M and M was not achieved.

All bad news and you socialists want more.

At the risk of offending someone here, we should never offend anyone in life. That's rule No 1.

Do any of you liberals or socialists do any actual research, ever?

I see no evidence of it.

[Flutter]

The experiment with partial medical socialism--Medicare and Medicaid has failed miserably. Trillions spent with no proof of any net benefit to the people's health. Medicine has been bureaucratized and politicized. The price of health care has been bid up. We still have a two-tiered system so the goal of M and M was not achieved.

All bad news and you socialists want more.

At the risk of offending someone here, we should never offend anyone in life. That's rule No 1.

Do any of you liberals or socialists do any actual research, ever?

I see no evidence of it.

Have you provided any research for me to refute?

You state the two systems can't coexist. You desire to try the free market, I desire to try socialism. We're obviously at opposite poles of the spectrum, but we agree on one thing.... the two systems can't coexist.

It is the fact the medicine is a business that make M & M not work.

[Jim Ostrowski]

I believe for profit hospitals are illegal in NY. Hospitals in NY are a cartel. Not a free market.

Is there any evidence that Medicaid and Medicare have improved health?

I have looked and can't find any.

There is evidence that they have bid up the price of health care. That's what happens when government throws billions at any industry--that industry raises prices.

Regarding my others assertions--two tiers remain, bureaucracy, paperwork maddness--these are so obvious to the naked eye that no research is required.

[Surfing USA]

A couple years ago, my father sat in the ER for two days.

Is this a quote from an article about socialized medicine, or a personal experience?

[Jim Ostrowski]

Personal experience.

[sharky]

bump for tomorrow

[Surfing USA]

I heard Tree_Hugger is going to be there.

[Anotherview]

A couple years ago, my father sat in the ER for two days. As I waited with him, of course, I pondered why.

No doubt you were at South Buffalo Mercy Hospital.

[Enough]

I heard Tree_Hugger is going to be there.

.... And Dougles!....

[Enough]

If Volker shows up can someone PLEASE keep him out of the water????