High Speed Rail - Question for Mike Miller

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Mike,

On BuffaloPundit, you mentioned that you spoke with Rep. Slaughter on the phone and she claimed to be 100% behind the Central Terminal being the focus of a station for any potential HS rail in New York State.

My question is don't you see this a just a bad of move as putting the Bills in OP, building the 33 and not finding a reuse for the CT earlier?

Consider that Louise Slaughter does not represent Buffalo. She represents Rochester and Niagara county. She has no vested interest in making Buffalo the best city.

Now IF, and we both know this is a big IF, NYS were to get HS rail, the line would come from NYC to Albany and down the line to Buffalo. According to a story in 2001, Slaughter was in favor of HS rail in Rochester to be located at the current site of their Amtrak station. This station is .5 miles from DT Rochester.

On the other side, the CT in Buffalo is in a HORRIBLE location. It was placed there at a time when people thought Buffalo was going to be a city of 3-5Million people. As we know...this is never going to happen. The CT in Buffalo is almost 2.5 miles from downtown and is located next to NOTHING that regional transportation would warrant.


My question to you is two fold. Anyone else can jump in.

1 - Do you think it is a mistake to make the CT the hub for HS rail in Buffalo. If not...why?

2 - Do you think their is a slight chance that Rep. Slaughter wants the terminal in Buffalo to be so far from DT that Rochester, which is in her district, would look more attractive to regional business travel. A city center to city center type situation.


Persoally for me, I think the best location for a HS terminal in Buffalo is close to the site of an old terminal. A Michigan and Elk terminal would service downtown the best AND help with the growth of DT Buffalo much more. Even if the HS terminal were located here, it could still connect to the CT and airport on it's way to Rochester.

Maybe there would be a way to piggy-back the construction of the HS rail with a second line for the Buffalo metro? Just curious.

[300miles]

Wouldn't a DT location in Buffalo for High Speed Rail require additional Right of Ways and possible demolitions?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Wouldn't a DT location in Buffalo for High Speed Rail require additional Right of Ways and possible demolitions?

I am not sure. Looking at Google Earth, the tracks between the CT and DT have open access except for the crossing of Exchange.

Even if there were possible demolitions or additional right of ways....you have to balance that over what would actually produce.

Does anyone thing HS rail going to Buffalo but ending at the CT in the heart of the East Side really do anything? I mean it would most likely provide funds to restore the CT, but what return does that provide?

If you were a business owner looking to put back offices in WNY, would you select Rochester where you could build or lease within blocks of the station or Buffalo where you would have to take a cab from the station to downtown.


I think the CT should be restored and be the center off a "mid-town" if you will. But I just do not see the benefit of having HS rail end there...outside of making it easy to find funds to restore it.

[300miles]

It's an interesting question. I'm hoping if they do move ahead with a rail plan (big IF) that they also include future expansionion towards Toronto. Linking us with Albany doesn't seem like a major economic boost to me. Linking us with Toronto could be amazing.

[raoul duke]

Mike,

On BuffaloPundit, you mentioned that you spoke with Rep. Slaughter on the phone and she claimed to be 100% behind the Central Terminal being the focus of a station for any potential HS rail in New York State.

My question is don't you see this a just a bad of move as putting the Bills in OP, building the 33 and not finding a reuse for the CT earlier?

An interesting question. 'sup left? But first. . .

Consider that Louise Slaughter does not represent Buffalo. She represents Rochester and Niagara county. She has no vested interest in making Buffalo the best city.

Really? Perhaps you should check out "teh earmuff" district she inhabits. She was my congresscritter for years when I lived in Allentown and the Central Terminal is in her gerrymandered district. Personally speaking, her office seems to be much easier to interact with than my current rep's (Higgins) office. But that's neither here nor there, I'm just pointing that out.

Now IF, and we both know this is a big IF, NYS were to get HS rail, the line would come from NYC to Albany and down the line to Buffalo. According to a story in 2001, Slaughter was in favor of HS rail in Rochester to be located at the current site of their Amtrak station. This station is .5 miles from DT Rochester.

On the other side, the CT in Buffalo is in a HORRIBLE location. It was placed there at a time when people thought Buffalo was going to be a city of 3-5Million people. As we know...this is never going to happen. The CT in Buffalo is almost 2.5 miles from downtown and is located next to NOTHING that regional transportation would warrant.

My question to you is two fold. Anyone else can jump in.

*walks to end of diving board*

1 - Do you think it is a mistake to make the CT the hub for HS rail in Buffalo. If not...why?

I with you here. IMO, the CT is too far removed from downtown proper to be that viable as a rail hub. However there is an argument to be made for doing as much. First, any HS rail would, as most east/west trains do, pass through the terminal. The infrastructure is already there and just needs to be rehabbed something fierce. Obviously, without corresponding connecting light rails and whatnot, it would be a dumb place, again IMO, to put the hub. For the time being, I would be fine with expanding the Exchange St. station or the the Elk and Michigan (like you stated below). As for the bigger picture, there may be a real and valuable use for the CT in the future, but until we upgrade and expand our sad state of local rail infrastructure it's just not tenable, IMO.

2 - Do you think their is a slight chance that Rep. Slaughter wants the terminal in Buffalo to be so far from DT that Rochester, which is in her district, would look more attractive to regional business travel. A city center to city center type situation.

Again, they are both in her district. And I doubt this would be her motivation. If you peruse her voting record and past public statements, she seems to be a believer in the interconnectedness of urban areas. I don't see anything in her record that would indicate she would sacrifice one set on constituents for another.

That being said, it's worth noting that Exchange St. and the Elk and Michigan locations are in Higgins' district.

Persoally for me, I think the best location for a HS terminal in Buffalo is close to the site of an old terminal. A Michigan and Elk terminal would service downtown the best AND help with the growth of DT Buffalo much more. Even if the HS terminal were located here, it could still connect to the CT and airport on it's way to Rochester.

Maybe there would be a way to piggy-back the construction of the HS rail with a second line for the Buffalo metro? Just curious.

I think the metro rail should be the most important of these debates right now. HS rail, if it becomes a reality, will pass through the Buffalo area regardless - that's where the tracks. The joke that is the light rail needs to be expanded to accommodate more of the region. Using existing rail infrastructure, it could be easily, relatively, expanded to serve most of the first ring suburbs and many of the 2nd and 3rd rings.

Of course the NFTA had just recently done some, IMO, dumb things by divesting themselves of some of the rail infrastructure they held for such an expansion just a year or so ago. Making the expansion into Tonawanda and that area a real and costly headache (way to go, NFTA!).

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

An interesting question. 'sup left? But first. . .

Really? Perhaps you should check out "teh earmuff" district she inhabits. She was my congresscritter for years when I lived in Allentown and the Central Terminal is in her gerrymandered district. Personally speaking, her office seems to be much easier to interact with than my current rep's (Higgins) office. But that's neither here nor there, I'm just pointing that out.

WOW. I stand corrected. That is one jacked district. For some reason I was thinking it ended in Niagara County.

[raoul duke]

WOW. I stand corrected. That is one jacked district. For some reason I was thinking it ended in Niagara County.

Naw, it just passes through the county grabbing the poorer parts the state Republicans didn't give a lick of spit about regardless.

I remember reading somewhere that the whole issue ended up being a miscalculation on the part of the Republicans. Amo Houghton's district (which was the 31st, I believe) was going to be eliminated with the bulk of the western end going to the 27th district, then occupied by Jack Quinn. The thinking being that in order to avoid political warfare, they would concede urban areas to Democrats to concentrate on reliable GOP voters in the rural areas. Then Higgins (albeit, a JV Democrat, at best) won Quinn's seat and, like Quinn, name recognition alone will make it his until he finds something better to do - which I hope is soon. Add to that the 29th district was being overhauled that census, also. But I never followed it that much so I don't know how much that affected it - though I'll bet it was a lot.

[Mike Miller]

Hi Left,

There are several advantages to having high speed rail (HSR) come to the Central Terminal:

1. Logistically, it makes sense. The railroad rights-of-way are already there and CSX and Amtrak are already on board.

2. The rail infrastructure for HSR requires more space than traditional rail lines and would make entry into the city proper more difficult.

3. The Central Terminal is a perfect intermodal transportation facility because it was designed as such. In a final configuration, it would be the ideal park and ride, and could house an Amtrak station, NFTA metro rail station, bus stop and taxis.

4. It's 2 and 1/2 mile distance from the city proper is not as much of a deterrent as is often mentioned. By car, from the radial streets (Genesee, Broadway, Sycamore, William) it takes just about 5 minutes. From a metro rail service that would be about half that.

5. Federal funding (besides any bailout money) to rehab the terminal as an intermodal transportation facility is available. Any remaining rehab could attract private investment for hotel, retail or office space.

We met with a representative from Louise's office last week. There is definite interest and support.

[Dougles]

To be honest, why is this high speed rail even worth the money? Will their be a HUGE rush from people in NYC, Albany or Boston to come to Buffalo? Or will it provide an easier way for more people to leave?

Why should we spend BILLIONS on a track that will obvioulsy be run by AMTRAK which is already a government run "co-operation"?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

3. The Central Terminal is a perfect intermodal transportation facility because it was designed as such. In a final configuration, it would be the ideal park and ride, and could house an Amtrak station, NFTA metro rail station, bus stop and taxis.

All of your points make sense if one thing happens. That being a NFTA metro link from the Central Terminal to 75 Exchange Street, in towntown Buffalo.

Has their been a conversation about extending the Metro from the CT to downtown if HS rail were to come? Is their a job cost estimate for such a project?

It is only 2.6 miles but it makes a huge difference IMO. Remember, that most people using the line would not have access to a car. At least one would hope that would be the case.

See the question you have to ask is how does HS Rail from NYC to Buffalo compare to say Rochester. If you are a business owner, looking to invest in operations, which city would you pick? Rochester is a shorter time on the train AND it is closer to the downtown center. IMO, much more likely for a private investor to develop in Rochester than Buffalo.

Added to this, the goal is not just to connect to NYC. Correct? The long term goal is to connect to Ohio and their "Hub Plan" and to Toronto. Does this mean that eventually, traffic from the North and West would bypass the city, or in the case of Toronto, go through the city to the CT. Only to then have the passengers track back?