Taxation of Non-Indians on Indian land

[dtwarren]

Originally posted by Curmudgeon
"Your references to other states and countries is not analogous to indian nations/tribes and is therefore comparing apples to oranges."

I don't buy that. The res is a autonomous region set up by the federal gov't and the only govt entity the res has to negotiate with is the Fed. We may not like it, but that's the way it is.
To say that differing taxation on reservations vs. neighboring states "is comparing apples to oranges" seems more wishful thinking to me rather than fact. The res is completely free to set whatever taxation policy (or lack thereof) they want.

"As for the sales tax issue you mention that is now a fait accompli. The Legislature as part of its budget amended the Tax Law to compel the Tax Commissioner to promulgate regulations for the collection of State Sales Tax on sales to non-Indians on Indian Land by September. Six State Tax Officials have been deputized as Federal Marshals to assist in this enforcement."

How sad. I assume that means undercover agents will be prowling reservation borders looking to see who filled up their gas tank. Sounds like a pathetic policy doomed to failure. Will we also see "revenue agents" patrolling the 219 at the border of Pennsylvania looking for "tax cheats" there as well? Avoiding sales tax by going to another state IS indistinguishable from going to the res in the eyes of the law.

What NYS is doing is trying to circumvent the free market, and the free market wins every time....
Lower the taxes to compete with other regions. It's that simple.
That's why the founding fathers created the states and the 6th amendment. They knew that state govts would have to compete with one another, and that is good for commerce.

This was orriginally part of a thread on the Casino issue but since we started to get off-topic it is probably best to start a more appropriate thread.

The often used analogy that puts Indian governmental entities on the same level with Canada or even other States is not accurate. The United States Supreme Court has stated in Nevada v. Hicks that "Our cases make clear that the Indians' right to make their own laws and be governed by them does not exclude all state regulatory authority on the reservation. State sovereignty does not end at a reservation's border. Though tribes are often referred to as "sovereign" entities, it was "long ago" that "the Court departed from Chief Justice Marshall's view that "the laws of [a State] can have no force" within reservation boundaries. Ordinarily, it is now clear, an Indian reservation is considered part of the territory of the State." In fact Congress has given the State of New York criminal and civil jurisdiction on Indian land (25 USC §§ 232, 233). Additionally, in June 2002 Judge Arcara dismissed the Grand Island Land Claim in part because this was not the aboriginal land of the Seneca (who sided with the British in the Revolutionary War and also sided with the confederacy in the Civil War).

The U.S. Supreme Court stated in its 1980 decision, Washington State v. Confederated Tribes, "We do not believe that principles of federal Indian law, whether stated in terms of pre-emption, tribal self-government, or otherwise, authorize Indian tribes thus to market an exemption from state taxation to persons who would normally do their business elsewhere." The Court also noted that the State of Washington had the right to seize unstamped cigarettes to enforce its valid taxes.

Given the fiscal crisis we are facing in New York, the State's policy of enforcing its lawful tax laws on only non-Indian businesses can no longer be tolerated nor accepted. The New York Court of Appeals in Snyder v. Wetzler and a unanimous United States Supreme Court held in Department of Taxation & Fin. of N.Y. v Milhelm Attea & Bros., held that the State may place minimal burdens on Indian retailers and tribes to collect taxes from non-Indians on Indian Land. With the exception of actions taken in the Spring of 1997 nothing has been done to collect this revenue. Some reports have placed this lost revenue in the billions. Governor Pataki acknowledged the need for legislative approval of his policy of non-enforcement in his press release of May 22, 1997, where he stated "Let me make my message to all Indian Nations clear: It is your land, we respect your sovereignty and, if the Legislature acts as I am requesting, you will have the right to sell tax-free gasoline and cigarettes free from interference from New York State." The governor even introduced a bill to effect this change. In a Buffalo News article dated July 18, 1997 by Tom Precious entitled "Pataki's sales tax plan for Indian reservations gets pushed aside" that appeared in The Buffalo News Speaker Silver was quoted as saying that this is a "complex issue" and that "[b]efore we deal with it, we have to take a significant look at it, so I don't think anything is going to happen on it this year." Speaker Silver was correct, in fact nothing has happened for the last 6 years. This despite our State Constitution prohibition against any tax exemption that is not enacted by a general law (Article XVI § 1). This section also separately prohibits any attempt to contract away the power of taxation unless sanctioned by the people themselves.

As I said before honest taxpayers should not have to bear the burden of carrying tax evaders. No one likes paying taxes, and no one likes paying theirs as well as someone elses who don't pay but receives the same services.

Dan

[Curmudgeon]

I don't pretend to be an expert on the history of reservation/state relations. I'm no advocate of the indians, but apparently there has been an erosion of indian soverignity when it is convienent for the state.
To sum it up, I think the root of the problem is obscenely high taxes and consumer behavior that results in taxation avoidance. To beat up on the indians soils the hands of everyone involved in the process. There are many people who have prefected the art of taxation avoidance by leaving the state, as the US census figures will tell you.
The indians are a symptom, not the disease...

[WNYresident]

Talkign about experts...


what do we all think about the town baords in lancaster? cheektowaga? amherst that are PRO development at the expense of the residents?

Plus i never want to hear how the developemtn offsets taxes, thats a load of horse crap too, if it did we wouldn't see the tax increases we do.

[Unregistered]

We have a way that you can stop all this CRAP you speak of up above...........

Stop sitting on your BEHIND and run for something....... Lets see if you can or your friends can make a diffrence. I think I am happy with what I pay for the services that I recieve.

If you think its that bad move to the City and pay les Taxes oh by the way see if you get the same Service there as well.

[WNYresident]

Other than Police, Trash, and plowing.. what do we get that we don't pay a fee other than taxes for?

The whole point is we can pay less for the services we are getting, plan and simple.

[Unregistered]

Sounds like you need some cheese w/ that WHINE of yours.

Like I said do something about it just dont bitch about it

[WNYresident]

I"m not whining as you put it, I'm stating facts.

I am doing something about it, I started this site to allow people to air out thier concerns.

[dtwarren]

Originally posted by WNYresident
I"m not whining as you put it, I'm stating facts.

I am doing something about it, I started this site to allow people to air out thier concerns.

I have done something as well: http://www.warren-v-pataki.com

Dan

[Curmudgeon]

"Stop sitting on your BEHIND and run for something....... Lets see if you can or your friends can make a diffrence. I think I am happy with what I pay for the services that I recieve."

well if you're happy with paying the highest taxes in the nation for a pretty crappy product, than I have a bunch of stuff I'd like to sell you... Please contact me - I'd like to sell you my Salad Shooter - I'm sure you won't mind paying top dollar for it even if it sucks and is used...

[WNYresident]

How if Indians have children and the buy homes around the casino in Cheektowaga, do they go to cheektowaga central? Or what ever school that district is?

If they do, then do they cover the school tax then?

How will local businesses be able to compete if the indians sell gas and goods?

Why is the supervisor not looking out for the people that pay his paycheck?

[sbGUY27]

Is the land that the Indians are moving onto part of the Casino land ? If an Indian buys a house is he/she exempt from property tax? Where is the famous photo op wench that this state of idiots elected into office. Why is she not hanging out in churches listening to you about this mess. Oh that is right your leaders were elected, mostly unopposed or by landslide, so they don't have to listen anymore,you have given them a mandate. DUH.

[WNYresident]

you mean hillary? Isn't she out promoting her book? Lets not interupt her, I mean she spent all that time writing her book while collecting a paycheck from he taxpayer.


I'm surprized we pay these people FULL TIME paychecks while they have the time to do all this other stuff.

I think it's time to pull the riens of the money tree from all of them.

[dtwarren]

Originally posted by WNYresident
you mean hillary? Isn't she out promoting her book? Lets not interupt her, I mean she spent all that time writing her book while collecting a paycheck from he taxpayer.


I'm surprized we pay these people FULL TIME paychecks while they have the time to do all this other stuff.

I think it's time to pull the riens of the money tree from all of them.

What strikes me is that both her and her husband swore under oath they could not recall various thing for 8 years and now they can write books based on their memories!

[WNYresident]

It's called political BS. If you noticed we have the wrong type of people in elected positions. Too many ME ME ME people. I thought they are supposed to work for the people not special interest groups.

[Unregistered]

The Indians are praticeing their own form of manifest destiny. We did it to them when the white man decided to move west. So it is just history repeating itself in reverse. I hope to live on seneca land one day. I can live tax free because I will be my own soverignstate within the seneca nation.

Don't worry when they get too big for their britches they will have to start taxing to pay for schools for their growing families and for their full time government.

Why don't we get them drunk like the moutain men used to do then negotiate with them. Maybe we can all get wives out of the deal!