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Thread: Proposition to increase the number of councilmen

  1. #1
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Proposition to increase the number of councilmen

    We are collecting signatures on a petition to place a proposition to the voters to decide if we should go from two councilmen back to four.

    The petition attached to this post for people to download and sign.

    Those who sign this petition must be a registered voter in the Town of West Seneca and you cannot witness your own signature.

    Please return the signed petitions by August 17 to me at:

    Daniel Warren
    836 Indian Church Road
    West Seneca, NY 14224
    Attached Files Attached Files
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    We are still collecting signatures. It is not too late to get your signed petitions to me!
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    From: http://www.westsenecabee.com/news/20...me_to_fix.html


    If downsizing was a mistake, now is the time to fix it




    Bee Editorial

    Downsizing local government has been used as an excuse by both residents and elected officials for a number of problems or shortcomings since it took effect in the Town of West Seneca at the start of 2010.

    Residents were led to believe that the financial savings of reducing the number of council members from four to two would be beneficial, ultimately lowering property taxes.

    They also were told that reducing local government would create more communication, increasing both the board’s transparency as well as citizens’ voices in their community.


    Yet, none of that came to fruition. Taxes are still high and communication between board members, as well as between the board itself and the public, has been severely hindered.

    Democracy seems to be a thing of the past.

    The idea of downsizing was romantic and restored a sense of power to the people by allowing them to choose both who and how many people will represent them, despite the town apparently having been governed by four board members since its founding in 1851.

    Then, the population was slightly more than 2,000 people. The most recent census taken in 2010 recorded more than 44,700 people living in the Town of West Seneca.

    That means today’s two councilmen each represent approximately 22,350 people while, two centuries ago, the four council members each represented about 500 people.

    The comparison may seem weak considering the growth of population over time, but having a smaller legislative body where each board member is representing a greater number of citizens means that each voice is heard less, not more, contrary to the proposed benefits of downsizing local government.

    In the school district, classroom sizes are capped at a certain number so that no teacher has too many — or even too few — students at one time. Daycare providers often follow a similar guideline or ratio for the number of children per caretaker. The rationale is that the needs of each child or student are being met.

    So, why should town government be any different? Asking an elementary teacher to educate a class of 300 instead of 30 is what downsizing has felt like in West Seneca — it’s been nearly impossible for board members to meet the needs of each constituent.

    We need more minds to make educated and informed decisions for the town, more eyes to keep watch of town finances and practices, and more ears to hear residents’ concerns.

    Perhaps signing a petition to restore the Town Board back to five members is a bit like admitting a mistake. Residents often take elected officials to task by asking that they hold themselves accountable for their mistakes, so residents should be prepared to do the same.

    We think this is a mistake worth admitting
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  4. #4
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    From: http://www.westsenecabee.com/news/20...own_Board.html


    Resident seeks support to ‘upsize’ Town Board




    by KIMBERLY MCDOWELL

    Editor

    It’s been two years since a downsized, three-member town board made its debut in West Seneca, and some residents are now looking to reverse their decision.

    (See editorial on page four)

    Daniel T. Warren, of Indian Church Road, has been against the idea of downsizing local government — at least in the Town of West Seneca — from the start.


    That’s why he’s currently in the process of collecting signatures for a petition that could lead to another public referendum. This time, Warren seeks residential support to increase the number of council members from two to four, ultimately going back to a five-member board, which also includes the town supervisor.

    He said there were major misconceptions on what the effects would be after reducing the number of council members by two.

    “There was a lot of confusion and misinformation the first time people voted,” said Warren, noting that he, at the time, heard rumors that residents would save $300 annually in taxes by voting to downsize their local government. That never happened.

    “I think people just jumped to certain conclusions that nobody ever said,” he added.

    The notion of “downsizing” was introduced four years ago when attorney Kevin Gaughan of Hamburg, a self-proclaimed “civic leader,” rallied citizens together in Erie County’s 25 towns, 16 villages and three cities, asking each to eliminate two elected officials.

    At that time, Gaughan told The Bee that he selected West Seneca as the first municipality in which to test the petition process because it was the “quintessential Erie County town.”

    He collected more than 1,500 signatures from West Seneca residents in March 2009 to call for a public referendum — only 810 were apparently needed. New York State Town Law requires a petition with 5 percent of those who participated in the most recent governor’s election to put a proposition before voters.

    Those signatures had to be filed with the town clerk, then validated by the Erie County Board of Elections before the Town Board could set a vote date.

    Gaughan went through a similar process the prior fall after collecting more than 4,300 signatures, which Warren contested, saying the language used to describe the downsizing process on the original petition was “needlessly verbose,” or misleading.

    The Appellate Division of the State Supreme Court agreed.

    So Gaughan recollected signatures — this time, only 1,500 — and resubmitted a simplified petition without the “legalese” he was accused of initially including. Then, the board voted to hold the special election June 3, 2009.

    More than 6,000 residents voted in favor of downsizing, with voter turnout around 35 percent. Only a simple majority was needed. The two council seats that were set to expire at the end of the year were eliminated, and a three-member Town Board debuted in 2010.

    “I think a lot of people voted out of a sense of frustration and anger,” said Warren, saying that residents were desperate for change after years of alleged political corruption. “But this was not a result of logical thinking.”

    In order to “upsize,” Warren is subject to going through the same process Gaughan used to downsize. The 5 percent of those who participated in the most recent governor’s election translates to needing 906 signatures in order to put the proposition before voters. His goal is to collect 1,000.

    As of Wednesday morning, he had roughly 120 signatures.

    “It’s still early,” said Warren. “Because we have so many people going out and collecting [signatures], we’re just starting to get them back now.”

    With wanting to include the referendum on the same ballot as this year’s general election on Nov. 6 — it’s a presidential election year, which Warren said would draw out more voters — the latest date he can submit his petition to the town clerk is by Sept. 7. From there, the Town Board has between 60 and 75 days to schedule a vote date.

    While residents may have been under the assumption that downsizing was in their best interest, the disadvantages of having only three members on a board have been plentiful, Warren said.

    “Residents voted to get two unpopular people out,” he said, referring to former council members Christina W. Bove and Vincent

    J. Graber. “They (the residents) succeeded, but look at the long-term damage they did.”

    The biggest concern, in his opinion, is the inability for board members to communicate. Members cannot discuss matters related to the town amongst themselves since two members make up the majority and the majority cannot meet without calling a public meeting; otherwise, they violate the Open Meetings Law.

    “There’s a lot of work to do, and I don’t think there’s enough people to do it,” he said.

    Any monetary savings that downsizing created for the town was minute, Warren added. He estimated both salaries of the eliminated council seats to total approximately $80,000.

    “You can’t go after savings with a hatchet; you need to approach things more with a scalpel,” he said. “[The town] probably lost more than what was saved.”

    Anyone that is interested in signing a petition but has not yet done so may contact Warren at d.warren@roadrunner.com.

    Also, a link to download the petition has been posted on The West Seneca Bee’s website, www.WestSenecaBee.com.

    Do you have a comment on the possibility of ‘upsizing’ the Town Board back to five members? Send a letter to the editor to kmcdowell@beenews.com. Also, take our online poll at www.WestSenecaBee.com
    It should be noted that I stated that some people voted for downsizing out of anger and frustration; others voted for it based on a misconception or a belief that downsizing would save them money in taxes (when it did not) and others voted not on the merits of downsizing but rather to get a certain person(s) out of office.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    We are still collecting signatures so if you thought it was too late please get me what you have. We are a few hundred short and decided to go forward. If filed in the next couple weeks the Town Board may still put the question to the voters on election day.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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    Sometimes people learn from their mistakes.
    Hopefully that's the case here. I would sign this in a heartbeat if I lived in WS.

  7. #7
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    2 board members and 1 supervisor are too few.

    Minimum and in my opinion the correct number would be 4 council people 1 supervisor.

    3 people on the board gives to high of a chance of having 3 no so bright self serving people on one town board.

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    Lets hope we can make this happen soon. It is the only hope we have at this time to turn our town around and give it a chance to become a better place to live.

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    There is a meeting today at 2:00 pm to discuss the increase on the town board to five members. Dan, how are the petitions doing? Is there a possibility of having enough signatures for a vote in November?

  10. #10
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    We missed the deadline to file the petition and have the proposition put on the general election ballot. However, we collected so many signatures I could not drop the petitioning and let the efforts of so many go to waste. This past Saturday I sent an e-mail to the Town Board and asked that they exercise their discretion and place this proposition on the ballot for the general election to save the taxpayers the cost of a special election and insure that the most voters have an opportunity to express their views by voting on this question.

    While I was not at the TB meeting on Monday I hear that they did adopt a resolution to place this question on the general election ballot and yesterday I believe they took the ministerial step of certifying it to the EC Board of Elections.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  11. #11
    Member gorja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    We missed the deadline to file the petition and have the proposition put on the general election ballot. However, we collected so many signatures I could not drop the petitioning and let the efforts of so many go to waste. This past Saturday I sent an e-mail to the Town Board and asked that they exercise their discretion and place this proposition on the ballot for the general election to save the taxpayers the cost of a special election and insure that the most voters have an opportunity to express their views by voting on this question.

    While I was not at the TB meeting on Monday I hear that they did adopt a resolution to place this question on the general election ballot and yesterday I believe they took the ministerial step of certifying it to the EC Board of Elections.
    From the Buffalo NEws-
    West Seneca voters will decide next month whether to “upsize” the Town Board, returning it to five members after a three-year period of having only three members.

    Erie County Elections Commissioner Dennis Ward confirmed that the measure qualified and would be placed on the general election ballot in West Seneca on Nov. 6.
    http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs...121009368/1003

    Georgia L Schlager

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    In today's Buff News, Kevin "Gone" Gaughan says that the people of West Seneca don't want to upsize the Town government. Are you kidding me? How the hell would Kevin Gaughan know what the people of West Seneca think or want? Kevin Gaughan has probably not even driven through the Town of West Seneca since 2009.Gaughn has absolutely no basis for his criticism that the elected officials view their consituents with disdain. Councilmember John Rusinski says it best, "Gaughan ought to just let West Seneca decide how it wants to govern itself without interference." Yeah, Kevin - go somewhere and mind your own business. Don't come into a Town where you don't live and impose your "research" across the board on a Town the size of West Seneca's. Theoretically, smaller government may be
    a great idea. In practicality, at the local level closest to the people, the downsizing in West Seneca hasn't worked. Period.

  13. #13
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    the downsizing in West Seneca hasn't worked. Period.
    Downsizing Buffalo's Council isn't working either. Go West Seneca! Go AWAY Gaughn!!!

    BF

  14. #14
    Member nogods's Avatar
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    For a guy who seems to have so much disdain for elected officials, he sure does try a lot to be one. For his next run for office he should promise the voters that if elected he simply one show up at any meetings to effectively reduce the legislative body by one.

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    There is a story in the W.S. Bee today regarding the up-sizing of the town board. Mr Gaughan asserts that the town board is behind this proposition. That is so far from the truth! The town board is just doing as the petitions compel them to do. Put the question to the town's residents. He has no business in this town and is not entitiled to an opinion on how we choose to be represented.
    Asking the Town Board to debate this issue is inproper since they didn't ask for this to be brought to a vote, they are not the people to debate on our behalf.
    Mr. Gaughan GO AWAY and let the people decide!

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