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Thread: Proposition to increase the number of councilmen

  1. #31
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    But "Which People". In Cheektowaga it is the "Democratic Social Club" that seems from the outside is ran out of our sanitation department.
    And people have the opportunity to run for and vote on Committee Persons.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  2. #32
    Member yokes's Avatar
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    didnt ask how many were required, just trying to understand what percentage of the town qualifies as "the will of the people". Less than 2%

  3. #33
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yokes View Post
    didnt ask how many were required, just trying to understand what percentage of the town qualifies as "the will of the people". Less than 2%
    Then you should be going by the number of registered voters in the town, not the total population.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  4. #34
    Member yokes's Avatar
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    ok less than 5% then.

    I dont have the latest voter registration count but I can extrapolate by your own numbers you needed to get 900 signatures to be 5% of those who voted last time. Not sure 100% vited last time

  5. #35
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    In 2010 only 18,136 voters in the Town of West Seneca cast their vote for the office of Governor.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  6. #36
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by yokes View Post
    nevermid found it. roughly 1.8% of the poulation in town signed according to the news.
    Yet the people who those petitions benefited will say "The community wanted this"... Actually a tiny fraction of the community.

    Unless a town is like 500 or less people I don't think I would ever go below 5 people on a town board. Much easier to get three self serving political party people on to a town board versus five. Not saying 7, 8 or 15 is better but you do get to a point where too many chiefs are not a good either

  7. #37
    Member yokes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    In 2010 only 18,136 voters in the Town of West Seneca cast their vote for the office of Governor.
    ok so 5% of them is 906.

    Lets say trunout was 60% that puts the towns registered voters just north of 30000

    so the will of the people in this case is 3% assuming you got all 906 of the registered voters, which you indicated you didnt.

    Just looking for clarity.

    Its important in politics to have a baseline of dry facts to measure the rhetoric levels, helps determine if there is an actual issue or just and agenda

  8. #38
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    I think you are mixing the questions here, whether the question gets on the ballot by petition or not the people decide what they want by voting on the question.

    The people who want the question put to the people can take two separate routes to accomplish this wether directly through the ELECTED TOWN BOARD who represent the people by virtue of their elected office or by petition signed by 5% of those who voted in the last election for governor. These are the routes regardless of whether you are seeking an increase or decrease in the number of councilmen.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  9. #39
    Member yokes's Avatar
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    Not debating the merits of the resolution. I think it’s great that there are avenues for people to get their issues heard.

    Earlier you stated that you didn’t understand why Gaughn wanted to debate the town board; I was just looking logically at that question.

    As you mentioned there are 2 methods to get this on the ballot.

    1. By Petition, this wasn’t accomplished
    2. by resolution of the board which was.

    Therefore one can interpret which is all I am doing it in the following way.

    The efforts to gain signatures, though noble weren’t producing the needed results in the timeframe necessary, and therefore the effort was moved to the board to decide.

    The board made the decision which is why Gaughn would be asking them to defend their decision, which they have IMO through the cost of special elections argument.

    I do like to deal in straight talk though, and would clarify that it was not the residents of West Seneca that ask for this resolution, it was some residents, a small % of the town. It was only a few years ago that 2/3 of the town voted to reduce the size, it will be interesting to see if there have been changes to that thought process.

    Strategically if this were my goal though, I would have held out for a special election, it’s easier to get the special interest people out for the vote than the general public

  10. #40
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    I wanted to avoid having the town incur an additional cost because I blasted Gaughan for doing this particularly when one's goal is to save taxpayer money.

    I also know that this passed at at the special election for the very reason you stated: that it is easier to get the special interest people out.

    I am glad that it will be decided at a general election and while I am pushing it to pass - in the event it does not at least I can find solace in the fact that it would truly represent the will of the people.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  11. #41
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    Dan, come on, YOU want to avoid a special election, to not incur an additional cost to the Town by having a special election.
    As usual YOU are kidding.
    I know I'm getting older, but my memory is still pretty good.

    Remember, YOU were the guy who went to court to stop the DOWN SIZING VOTE.
    YOU were the guy who took Kevin Gaughan to court a couple of times.
    YOU are the guy who is always going to court to try and stop the TOWN from doing something in Town that YOU don't like.

    If I had the time, I'd go through all the LAWSUITS that you have created over the years. But I guess that any time YOU go to Court it doesn't
    cost the TOWN any expense. Really DAN. . The money comes from the tooth fairy to cover the TOWN'S expenses.

    Would you please answer the question, about the number of signatures. One thing I've learned over the years is that you don't LIE. YOU just don't
    answer the question.

  12. #42
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Remember, YOU were the guy who went to court to stop the DOWN SIZING VOTE.
    YOU were the guy who took Kevin Gaughan to court a couple of times.
    YOU are the guy who is always going to court to try and stop the TOWN from doing something in Town that YOU don't like.
    In hindsight wasn't going to three a bit much?

    YOu can't say he doesn't like the town.

  13. #43
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Lou View Post
    Dan, come on, YOU want to avoid a special election, to not incur an additional cost to the Town by having a special election.
    As usual YOU are kidding.
    I know I'm getting older, but my memory is still pretty good.

    Remember, YOU were the guy who went to court to stop the DOWN SIZING VOTE.
    YOU were the guy who took Kevin Gaughan to court a couple of times.
    YOU are the guy who is always going to court to try and stop the TOWN from doing something in Town that YOU don't like.

    If I had the time, I'd go through all the LAWSUITS that you have created over the years. But I guess that any time YOU go to Court it doesn't
    cost the TOWN any expense. Really DAN. . The money comes from the tooth fairy to cover the TOWN'S expenses.

    Would you please answer the question, about the number of signatures. One thing I've learned over the years is that you don't LIE. YOU just don't
    answer the question.
    That is correct his first petition submitted was invalid and invalidated, but he still had a choice of collecting the signatures in order to have it put on the 11/2009 general election rather than causing a special election in June 2009.
    Last edited by dtwarren; October 13th, 2012 at 01:15 PM.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  14. #44
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    And I am not the one that sued to block the downsizing, Dennis Mavromatis sued to overturn the Board of Elections determination that the petition submitted by Kevin Gaughan was not valid. To refresh your memory here are his papers: http://www.scribd.com/doc/109928594/...-v-West-Seneca
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    And I am not the one that sued to block the downsizing, Dennis Mavromatis sued to overturn the Board of Elections determination that the petition submitted by Kevin Gaughan was not valid. To refresh your memory here are his papers: http://www.scribd.com/doc/109928594/...-v-West-Seneca
    Allegedly You and Dennis are tied together

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