The IP party

[WNYresident]

So Dvoakley makes some statements about the IP party which seem to hold some water. Even had a phone call today where someone confirmed the IP party is more or less controled lately by the democrates. Also, for the last 2 years almost Jim T has faithfully been filling me in with data about the IP party which now lately looks like he's sort of right on the money.

We have news paper articles which state how "Mr IP Chairman" pockets contributions for various activities in the name of the party as personal expenses.

Sort of makes you wonder doesn't it.

Here's a few questions I would like answered.

1. What is the core group (team) that makes up a small political party.

I assume a Chairman, treasurer, secretary etc..

2. Wouldn't thier goal be to replace the opposing parties candidates with people they believe would be better from the IP party? versus just questionably endorsing other party candidates? It would be like Sears endorsing people to go to True Value.

3. Wouldn't the political party duties be to promote the party itself and do things which would help promote the party as a whole versus figuring ways to personally profit from the party? I've been a card carrying IP member for months now and haven't even gotten a welcome letter. Good team communication is what makes teams successful.

4. Wouldn't all fund raising in the name of the party be solely for going into the parties coffers? An example of what wouldn't be done is to run a IP newsletter in representation of the party and then personally keeping the money from the newsletter advertising for ones own profit?

5. Would all fundraisers be properly recorded so at any time a party member would say "hey, lets see what ledger looks like" they could produce it almost at a moments notice? No fudging or questionable entries? isn't that type of stuff public record reciepts and all?

6. Wouldn't fund raisers usually not have the opposing parties representatives at the fund raisers or is that common practice in WNY? Someone told me Lenny was at one of the latest IP party gatherings.

7. Who picks the person who leads the IP party group? If it's not a who then how?

8. Is there a stipend for the IP party leader or is it a volunteer position?

9. Could the IP leader form a group of people who are qualified to make western ny the powerhouse it used to be versus sucking ass to the other two political parties to see what patronage they may get?

10. I'll have more questions later...


Oh, can someone forward this for me to the current Erie County IP chairman? Tell him a card carrying new IP party member would like some questions answered.

Thank you.

[moonshine]

WNY,

From my previous experiences as a local republican party committee person, I'll throw in a few words.

1. What is the core group (team) that makes up a small political party.

I assume a Chairman, treasurer, secretary etc..

There are very specific laws, but in general you are correct. The President, VP, Treasurer, and Secretary are the primary people involved. Keep in mind that a decision cannot be legally made without a quorum. Larger political parties typically accept two people per political district as representatives. A "town" would probably have 6 districts and 12 reps, including the Pres, VP, etc. Therefore, in theory, it should be impossible for them to form a quorum without additional support, but I'm not sure how it works in reality when you are dealing with third-parties. The Independence party might only have a total of 15 members registered within the entire town, so getting 12 of them to serve on the committee seems unlikely. You would probably need to study each committee on a case-by-case basis.

2. Wouldn't thier goal be to replace the opposing parties candidates with people they believe would be better from the IP party? versus just questionably endorsing other party candidates?

In a perfect world you would be correct. If the committee cannot produce a viable candidate the next goal is to live to see the next election. Remember, they might endorse a candidate but not give that guy/gal one single dollar. In the eyes of the committee it is better to save your bankroll if you stand a serious chance of losing. Sacrificial lambs are rewarded with positions within the committee/town/county.

5. Would all fundraisers be properly recorded so at any time a party member would say "hey, lets see what ledger looks like" they could produce it almost at a moments notice? No fudging or questionable entries? isn't that type of stuff public record reciepts and all?

100% absolutely. The quickest way to get yourself in trouble is to play fast and loose with money. Every committee meeting I've ever attended started off with a ledger detail from the treasurer. A good treasurer has a handle on every penny.

7. Who picks the person who leads the IP party group? If it's not a who then how?

Tyranny of the majority my friend. Those within the party hold a democratic election.

8. Is there a stipend for the IP party leader or is it a volunteer position?

I've never seen a direct payment to a committee chair/president. Furthermore, everyone on the committee was a "volunteer". I put "quotes" around volunteer because we all knew that serving on the committee was considered a position of power. How you used that power was undefined, but it was definately present. Most people chose to use that power to pursue political positions that would have been unattainable without a committee recommendation (i.e. zoning, planning, town board).

9. Could the IP leader form a group of people who are qualified to make western ny the powerhouse it used to be versus sucking ass to the other two political parties to see what patronage they may get?

Probably not. From my perspective, the most advantageous position that a third-party committee can expect is that of "agitator". The Niagara county conservative party is a classic example.

10. I'll have more questions later...

Keep them coming. These committees that you are questioning are a structural problem for this area. They are the places where future policians are being formed. If you want to see who the ruling elite will be in 10 years just take a look at your local committee members. It's the farm-league of politics.

[WNYresident]

Probably not. From my perspective, the most advantageous position that a third-party committee can expect is that of "agitator". The Niagara county conservative party is a classic example.

SO apparently WNY just hasn't had a good third party to take on the 2 entrenched parties.

So basically who has been the "party" leaders for the last 12 years of the dems/reps/IPs in Erie County?

Have they ever had any non politician/lawyer types running the show?

Maybe if there weren't focused on political patronage positions and personal gain they could get the job done.

[WNYresident]

[QUOTE]100% absolutely. The quickest way to get yourself in trouble is to play fast and loose with money. Every committee meeting I've ever attended started off with a ledger detail from the treasurer. A good treasurer has a handle on every penny. [QUOTE]

If that's true then why is Orsini apparently so loose with funds that are churned through the IP party? Is there where political endorsements comes to play? My party will endorse you if you don't notice how the books are kept?

[WNYresident]

Tyranny of the majority my friend. Those within the party hold a democratic election.

Tyranny? How many party members in the IP party would one need behind them to pull something tyranistic (is that a word) off?

Where did Orsini come from to word his way up to IP chairman?

[WNYresident]

In a perfect world you would be correct. If the committee cannot produce a viable candidate the next goal is to live to see the next election. Remember, they might endorse a candidate but not give that guy/gal one single dollar. In the eyes of the committee it is better to save your bankroll if you stand a serious chance of losing. Sacrificial lambs are rewarded with positions within the committee/town/county.

A single dollar? How could that even happen if it looks like apparently the IP chairmen uses the dollars collected for personal expenses?

Is there a record of how many single dollars were given to IP candidates to run for office in Erie County?

[WNYresident]

SO why does Joe Illuzi defend in general the IP parties chairmans actions in reguards to what they do? I mean just looking at what is going on looks ethically wrong in the name of the party and furthering the parties growth.

I saw on his politicswny.com site that he was putting the buffalo news story down and defending how orsini uses the IP parties money.

[moonshine]

WNY,

I suggest you start pounding the sidewalk and getting some answers if you are serious about this. I'm not familiar with the erie county independence party, so I can't offer anything more than I've already posted.

You'll probably need to goto the state or fed level if you want to audit this the committee's finances. Don't expect the local/county punks to give you the time of day. How much of a background do you have in accounting? You are gonna need all the help you can get if you want to get to the bottom of this. Most importantly, you will make a lot of enemies along the way. Regardless of party affiliation, the establishment forms a brotherhood when someone attacks their foundation. Good luck. I'd be happy to help out in any way possible.

[WNYresident]

I suggest you start pounding the sidewalk and getting some answers if you are serious about this. I'm not familiar with the erie county independence party, so I can't offer anything more than I've already posted.

My questions were more geared to what a political party is supposed to do. There are many examples of how the IP party conducts things lately in the paper and what people email me now.

How much of a background do you have in accounting?

I have enough experience to know what is questionable or not. I own three companies and you sort of learn a lot after 23 years in business. Plus I hire people who are very qualified to do the accounting stuff I dont know. I should hire a spelling assistant though

You are gonna need all the help you can get if you want to get to the bottom of this.

MAybe it's time for the community to start stepping up to the plate in small teams to look into this stuff.

Most importantly, you will make a lot of enemies along the way.

THere are people that don't like me now and a few more wouldn't hurt.

Regardless of party affiliation, the establishment forms a brotherhood when someone attacks their foundation.

The answer..

What is usually the most important part of a house? It's foundation. If you build a house with a weak foundation problems will arise..

Perhaps that is the issue with WNY. The political foundation is making our community weak. Maybe it's time we start to replace the foundation, one punk at a time.

[Dvoakley]

Let's remember the genisis of the IP. It came into being as United We Stand (Ross Perot). His peculiarites made his campaign implode. But then along came Tom Galisano. He wants to be the gov. but he can't get an endorsement from the two parties. So he morphs United We Stand into the IP. He spent 65 million and came in third but that vote got the IP the third party line. That line is all important. Consider that Amherst has 84 more democrats then republicans. If you can get the IP endorsement then you're virtually assured of election. Debbie Bucki was po'd because she didn't get the last IP endorsement. Look it up - it cost her. I supperted her and did the best I could with as little experience as I had. After the election she set about to get a toehold in the IP. She and Dennis Ward struck a deal with Chris Drongosky to get him back in the IP chairmanship. I talked to Debbie when I found out about it and tried to get her to back off. Chris told her that Tom Pecararo was the reason she hadn't gotten the IP Party endorsement. He convinced her and Dennis Ward of that.
I talked to Dennis Ward for amost an hour (first and only time). I tried to tell him that if the side I backed would win we would honestly and fairly evaluate each candidate. He wouldn't listen. I asked him if he was aware of Drongosky's more then shady background. That didn't bother him either.
Dennis marshalled his forces to circulate petions for Drongosky. Chris didn't have time. It was summer and he was playing golf(or cheating at golf). I have copies of all the petitions that were filed. Filed at the Erie Co BOE by Craig Bucki.
When the meeting was held I showed up and handed in my petitions. Chris wasn't there but I am told(can't prove it) a call was made Chris and he was told how many petitions he needed. Chris showed up at the last minute and presented his petitions. Strangely enough more then enough to win. the chairmanship.
After the meeting I tried to see his petition. No one knew where they were- they had disappeared!
The IP bylaws say that proxies are the sole property of the party secretary. He issues them and validates them when presented before a meeting . Didn't happen.
So the only recourse is to hire a lawyer and go to court and hope to win. Cost? About 4,ooo. And you also have to go against the BOE about as partisan a board as you've ever seen.
So now we have Drongosky enscounced as Chairman of the AIP. But he is an unstable individual.
So now Ward has to control him knowing the only thing Drongosky wants is control of the Audubon Golf Course.
Here's Ward's dilemma with Drongosky. CD is endebted to Shelly Shratz. So that endorsement is just about a given. Then there's Dan Ward and that's a given. Now your left with Woodard, Shad, Marlette, Brownrout, and Bucki for council. Brownrout is out because Ward can't stand him. Woodard has incurred CD's enmity becuse of her votes against him. Marlette and Shad would have a chance but CD owes Bucki and her son. So it looks like Bucki but remember I said CD is unstable so nothing is certain with him although as Dennis has paraphrased I put him in, I can take him out.
Lastly there is the Supervisor. The REps really took on some baggage with Rebanold. One thing Ward, Kindel, Schratz, have in common- they hate Sue Grelick.
So it would not be a surprise if the AIP endorses Dirk or has no endorsement at all.
AS to Illuzzi's web site opinions:
$500 is the going rate for an ad and an extra $i000 if you win.
How objective can you be if it means money in your pocket.
I've raved on long enough for now but I promise you more to come.

[WNYresident]

So from what you have told me this really looks like CD and ward really are not doing what they are doing in the best interest of the residents. This is more of who will scratch who's back and the residents are left on the sidelines. If the dems control the IP party in amherst it will help them get more votes which means more power.

Now would a honorable erie county chairman look at this situation and notice this seems a little odd and put his foot down? Or is this how the whole EC IP party is ran in general? I wouldn't want one of my team members lead around by the other team.

Also why would another political party even lift a finger to help out any other political party enless thier angle was to have some form of favors owed?

Jim T? Can you get a comment from Ward about this? Did he really help CD get his petitions signed?

Dvoakley? Shady isn't a nice term and if you use it you have to give examples and let people decid for themselves if someone is shady or not.

Chris D? I know you read the site... whats your explanation of how the petitions came about?

Are petitions for a political party positions as strict as petitions to get on the card in a real election? All t's crossed and i's dotted?

[Dvoakley]

Orsini keeps his hands off saying it is "local" matters. But when local matters reflect on the entire party, it's time to get involved and kick some a**. There is a mechanisn in the IP bylaws to get rid of people for the good of the party. Drongosky's "antics" including his brushes with the law ( they are just below the surface of the dept's day reports) certainly qualifies him as a detriment to the party.
There is an overlay to my previous remarks that makes the disappearance of the county proxies seem like childs play. I don't want to write too much in one posting but believe me I will continue til we're up to date with what's going on.
Let me state one thing.
I'm not in this for any personal gain. I've been retired for over ten years and I love gardening, golf, and grandchildren. But I also am committed to good government. I am disenchanted with the way politics has become blood sport.
To that end I'm not going away. Quit is not in my vocabulary.