Transit Road Access Management Ordinance: Part 2: Tim Horton’s/Transit Road signaliza

[Lee Chowaniec]

At the recent Lancaster Town Board work session, Council member Donna Stempniak informed the board that the Transit Road/Michael Anthony Tim Horton’s would like to remove the Transit Road access island barrier. “It’s been a headache for drivers in maneuvering to enter and leave the site,” declared Stempniak. “They sometimes hit or drive up on the island concrete barrier.”

Other board members agree that they themselves had difficulty entering or leaving the site because of the concrete island. Supervisor Dino Fudoli remarked that he understood the barrier was constructed to disallow drivers from making left turns from the site onto Transit Road. “We are facing the same risk potential with the McDonald’s project proposal next to Wal-Mart where making left turns onto Transit Road could be a nightmare.”

Stempniak countered that it (left turns) could work if there was enough room. She gave the example of a Walden Avenue business and then added that the Transit Road Tim Horton’s did not have enough room to allow for left turns. “There are two recommendations before us, to remove that requirement and the concrete barrier.”

Councilman John Abraham requesting clarification asked whether the request now meant that left turns would be allowed to access Transit Road from the Tim Horton’s. Stempniak answered “yes”.

Abraham added that when he was on the zoning board at the time the conditions were set. Living in the apartment complex that is adjacent to the Tim Horton’s he well understood the need for a no left turn condition restricting exiting vehicles from making left turns onto Transit Road.

Supervisor Fudoli asked whether they could put something in writing that stated left turns were not allowed to discourage drivers from exiting the site onto Transit Road. It was discussed as to where such signage could be posted, whether it could be enforceable, and the burden it could bring to the police. “We want to reduce drivers making left turns on Transit Road as much as possible and that is why the planning board recommended such conditions be placed on the Tim Horton’s.

The need to continue the no left turn condition was further discussed and that signage could be posted as to disallow left turns. Councilman Abraham declared that when he moved into the apartment complex several years ago traffic was not that bad. “But then with the development of the Tim Horton’s, the Kohl’s, etc., a lot more traffic came along.”

Highway Superintendent Dan Amatura brought up the need for signalization in the area to break traffic and reduce the risk of making left turns on Transit Road. “We had a meeting recently with people from NYS Senator Patrick Gallivan’s office, spoke with the DOT, and spoke with Planning Board Chair Stanley Keysa to put in signalization to break up the traffic. The DOT tells us the traffic count doesn’t yet warrant signalization near the Kohl’s.”

The writer interjected that the last GBRTC traffic count was performed in 2008 and indicated there were 28,000 vehicles travelling Transit Road between French Road and the William/Losson intersection. “That was four years ago and since then we must have picked up another 5,000 to 7,000 vehicles travelling this section of road since then with all the development that has taken place since then. Kohl’s had committed to putting in signalization when they went into operation, at their expense.

Amatura interjected that it was just a matter of getting the right people involved to get the signalization installed. “We have to put the pressure on the state to do it.”

Town Engineer Robert Harris agreed with Amatura that the right people have to become involved in the process of getting signalization installed on Transit Road between French Road and the William/Losson intersection. “Unfortunately, we are not the right people.”

Stempniak interjected that there was to a signal at the Kohl’s driveway years ago and the town is still waiting. Councilman Ron Ruffino added that there is a big difference in making a left turn going in to any driveway on Transit than exiting that driveway. Supervisor Fudoli added that if you are caught in the middle making a left turn, it is the driver’s loss.

The writer asked Council member Stempniak whether it was originally conditioned for the Tim Horton’s that a left turn was not allowed into the Tim Horton’s from Transit Road as well as the left turn restriction when exiting the site. Stempniak replied that it was so conditioned.

Chowaniec: “ Isn’t also true that that restriction was lifted because it was impossible to put up signage anywhere, to indicate a left turn into the Tim Horton’s was not allowed, but that too many drivers were ignoring or not seeing the signage posted in the corner of the lot and making left turns?”

Stempniak: “Right. That would not be enforceable as well.”

Regular meeting session report

At the regular meeting session Ms, Stempniak informed the attendees that the removal of the concrete island at the Tim Horton’s driveway was discussed in the work session; the Transit Road Tim Horton’s at Michael Anthony lane.”It was put in there so that cars leaving the site could not make left turns onto Transit Road. It got to be a problem. There is a pronounced curve going right that leads drivers to make a right turn only from the business. People get stuck on the island in winter time. It is not functioning as intended. The Highway Superintendent has recommended that we remove the island requirement. The planning board discussed this as well and they concur. So I am working on that.”

Public comment session

At the open public comment session, resident Mike Fronczak asked about the removal of the Tim Horton’s island. “Does this mean that drivers exiting the Tim Horton’s will now be able to make a left turn onto Transit Road?”

Stempniak: “We were talking about that at the work session. We spoke on having Tim Horton’s put signage on the property saying that left turns into the McDonald’s was not allowed. It would be very difficult to put signage on Transit Road saying “no left turns” into the business. People wouldn’t see it and they would ignore it anyway. But I guess the whole idea is not to cause left turns coming out of the Tim Horton’s. There will be signs there (on the property) saying that. Hopefully, we will be able to enforce that condition, right Chief (Police Chief Gerald Gill)?”

Police Chief Gill: “Yes.”

Fronczak: “We are in the process where a McDonald’s is coming in down the road, and in one heck of a location for traffic. I really urge the board to really consider what will be taking place there as far as traffic management. As supervisor Fudoli stated earlier, there is potential for this area being a nightmare. There should be conditions set there as to ingress and egress from the site and signage placed indicating that.”

Supervisor Fudoli: “That doesn’t mean Mike that the people will not disobey the signage. They do that all the time.”

Fronczak: “I am just saying that I want this board to think about this, and have this site developed correctly.

Stempniak: “Just so you know the developer’s attorney called me to know if his waiver was on tonight’s agenda. Besides his waiver request coming in at the last minute, I told him I wanted to hear from the Department of Transportation (DOT). It is their road and I want to find out whether or not they even want a driveway cut on Transit Road (the old Martino’s driveway). I am not going to grant a waiver until we know the thoughts of the DOT.”

Comments

We shall soon find out whether the Town of Lancaster’s Transit Road Access Management Ordinance (TRAMO) has any teeth. There are so many provisions/conditions within the plan that any McDonald’s outcome appears possible.

Council member Stempniak declares she will not issue a waiver/variance for the McDonald’s project until she hears from the DOT regarding whether they will even grant approval for a driveway curb cut on Transit Road. One may ask why the DOT wouldn’t grant one when there already is one – the old Martino’s.

What if the McDonald’s can’t reach mutual agreement with Joseph Cipolla on price to use his property for back property road access (Wal-Mart). Cipolla does own I foot of perimeter property and is rightfully due compensation. The TRAMO declares: Without the variance, there is no reasonable access to the site.

Can the town force Cipolla to come to agreement? No it can’t, as was exemplified by the temporary waiver granted to the 5007-5009 medical office building. And, in the past a well when Aldi wanted to use the Lancaster Bowling driveway as an access. The request was denied. The town’s hands were tied and the only response that was given was that should the bowling business ever come to the town for site plan change, their request could be denied. Really?

But if a Transit Road driveway is the only access possible and McDonald’s gets a waiver/variance, does the town have the enforcement capability to set conditions; like no left turns allowed into and out of the site? The town should have such authority according to TRAMO to reduce conflict points and assure driver safety. Otherwise the ordinance is useless. And am I wrong thinking that a no left turn allowed sign would relieve the McDoanald's/Town/State of liability in the event an accident occurred from such unsafe action?

If McDonald’s were then to say that those conditions are unreasonable and besides the DOT says we can use the driveway already in place, so we don’t need your waiver, what enforceable power does the town have to nix the project?

But wait, McDonald’s wants to modify the driveway from 20 feet 50 feet wide. Is that a game changer? How does that impact the DOT decision?

Will the DOT and town work together to grant approvals based on conditions that do not allow left turns in or out of the Transit Road driveway.

And, it goes on and on. We shall see whether the town and/or DOT have any regard for public safety and public best interests.

As the Town of Cheektowaga has the same ordinance in place, it would behoove the Town of Lancaster to seek its assistance in getting signalization in place at Transit Road and Jessica. It has been two years since Benderson purchased the property directly south of Kohl’s. The site plan understanding at the time was that Benderson and Kohl’s would now share expenses to put signalization at a location that would be directly across Jessica Lane once the Benderson property would be developed. It has been two years and the Benderson property remains undeveloped – typical for Benderson. They declared they had a major tenant in place at the time of site plan approval. Apparently, they did not!

[gorja]

It didn't seem to be a problem putting "No Left Turn" signage on Broaway in front of D & L plaza.


Why wouldn't it be possible in front of McDonalds?

[Lee Chowaniec]

It didn't seem to be a problem putting "No Left Turn" signage on Broaway in front of D & L plaza.


Why wouldn't it be possible in front of McDonalds?

Yes indeed, why wouldn't it?

[granpabob]

the signs make no sense they face the street and if you look to the left you see a curb and gardens

[therising]

It didn't seem to be a problem putting "No Left Turn" signage on Broaway in front of D & L plaza.


Why wouldn't it be possible in front of McDonalds?

I make a left into that driveway often - probably a few times per month. And I've never even noticed those signs.

[gorja]

I make a left into that driveway often - probably a few times per month. And I've never even noticed those signs.

I believe, it is also "No left turn" coming out of that driveway. When I go to D & L, I make left turn into Brunswick Rd. Heading west on Broadway, I never use the traffic signal.

[4248]

Originally Posted by therising "I make a left into that driveway often - probably a few times per month. And I've never even noticed those signs."

Theo - gotta luv this guy - willing to fall on the sword to prove a point - or create one!!!!!!!

You know if you think about - maybe Councilman Stempniak deserves to be right where shes at! Town Council Member/Liaison to the Planning Board/Administrator of the LAN Dem Committee Campaign Funds -

She has once again set taxpayers on a wild goose chase - in order to distract concerns long enough to push another questionable project through!

I didn't think she could top her dumpster placement boondoggle(Warner/Como) - then the ever infamous Walmart "Lite height/placement" - then the we'll put a traffic barrier in front of Tim Horton's to help prevent unsafe turns

And now there will be so much smoke blown over the McDonald left turn issue - by the time it clears - the same developer who makes a living bending and changing Town codes and laws will have again won.

They will twist and turn - excuse and dismiss - reroute and redirect - the developer gets to cash in - traffic and all the problems that come with it will increase - but will they get reelected again? - Probably!

[granpabob]

If the signs were for the street they would be place at the street curb to warn the drivers before they turned into the driveway. by the time you see these sign you have already committed to the turn. placed there they mean you can not make a left after the signs. Just like stop signs being posted before the stop so are turn signs

[Lee Chowaniec]

If the signs were for the street they would be place at the street curb to warn the drivers before they turned into the driveway. by the time you see these sign you have already committed to the turn. placed there they mean you can not make a left after the signs. Just like stop signs being posted before the stop so are turn signs

That is an excellent point - placing the signs near the curb; and also facing them toward the oncoming traffic would also help making the signage more visible. If the town sets the conditions, it can also make the right away (curb and sidewalk) available for posting the signs.

I never come from the east to make the turn into the D&L plaza, but from the west turning into the plaza at the signalized driveway. I did visit the site today and well understand what you and therising are saying, namely, that signage is inappropriate.

[therising]

Originally Posted by therising "I make a left into that driveway often - probably a few times per month. And I've never even noticed those signs."

Theo - gotta luv this guy - willing to fall on the sword to prove a point - or create one!!!!!!!

You should try NOT being a tool for once. You may find it to be refreshing.

[WNYresident]

the signs make no sense they face the street and if you look to the left you see a curb and gardens

Do you really expect any less from the people who run are towns?

[4248]

This reminds me of the cemetery on Pleasantview near the entrance to the new subdivision. When they first presented the project - Councilman Stempniak made a big deal of promising the cemetery would be cared for and a new fence installed by the contractor.

Then all of a sudden the grave stones started disappearing from view - when residents asked the Town Board about it - Councilman Stempniak claimed the contractor removed them - to protect them. Turns out many believed the reason they disappeared was the contractor was informed that prospective buyers may not want to live that close to a cemetery.

Then when residents complained - in a election cycle year - WOW all the grave stones reappeared and a new sign was installed. Well atleast until the next spring - if you pass by there now - the sign magically faces the wooded area instead of on coming traffic as it used to. Also some of the grave stones have fallen down again or seemed to have wondered off again.

Just a coincidence that directly south of that cemetery is now being developed!!!!!!!

PS - Council Member Stempniak and Supervisor Giza also promised a recreation area - that didn't happen.

[hawkeye]

This reminds me of the cemetery on Pleasantview near the entrance to the new subdivision. When they first presented the project - Councilman Stempniak made a big deal of promising the cemetery would be cared for and a new fence installed by the contractor.

Then all of a sudden the grave stones started disappearing from view - when residents asked the Town Board about it - Councilman Stempniak claimed the contractor removed them - to protect them. Turns out many believed the reason they disappeared was the contractor was informed that prospective buyers may not want to live that close to a cemetery.

Then when residents complained - in a election cycle year - WOW all the grave stones reappeared and a new sign was installed. Well atleast until the next spring - if you pass by there now - the sign magically faces the wooded area instead of on coming traffic as it used to. Also some of the grave stones have fallen down again or seemed to have wondered off again.

Just a coincidence that directly south of that cemetery is now being developed!!!!!!!

PS - Council Member Stempniak and Supervisor Giza also promised a recreation area - that didn't happen.

4248 I have read your post and wonder were the h@ll is your head. Were the heck is there going to be a Timmy Hortons on Pleasantview? and for what purpose would they build a Timmy Hortons at all. Your point on the Topic was out of line and yet you have are one of the people that DOES'T Attend meetings and yet bitch about Giza and Donna because YOU couldn't change the world when you were there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[4248]

Sorry hawk - maybe you should get your eyes checked

No where did I insinuate or imply a Tim Horton's was to be built on Pleasantview. I merely pointed out the past tactics of some of the Town Boards controlling members. They continually hide things - they have misled - miss informed and used smoke and mirror tactics to hide true intentions.

When ever a project is of concern - they have always confused the issues - then caused focus to shift to some obscure point - this way the project gets approved while taxpayers are side tracked into discussing the minor points.

If you failed to see my point its only because you are misleading yourself. Thanks

[hawkeye]

4248 The purpose of my note was the topic on this Thread that Lee Chowaniec started about the Transit road Tim Hortons issues and as many of times you posting had NOTHING to do with the Thread and your own way and lack of focus on the TOPIC.