Marine drive Apt complex

[jbinbny]

What if any action is being taken regarding this BMHA boondoggle? Seems to me I read as early as last year that the lease agreement between the city and the co-op that runs this patronage property ran out.

At that time a couple of private developers expressed an interest in purchasing this property from the city, renovating it and returning the complex to city tax rolls at the full tax rate. I believe both Ciminelli and Uniland expressed interest. The city would have reaped the benefit of the initial sale which I think was estimated at between $15and $30 million. The complex would then be renovated and leased to tenants. The city would have also seen a substantial boost in the tax rolls for years to come.

So what happened??? Answer: NOTHING!!!

Mayor Moron stood up and said it was a bad deal for the city because it was a low income housing project and there were a few tenants left who did qualify as such. Since they still lived there the mayor went ahead an nixed any potential windfall for the city by putting a few ligit low income residents ahead of the city as a whole. Even though the developers stated that these tenants would not be tossed into the streets like the mayor tried to imply, but instead would be allowed to stay for a period of years at their current rent. After that, they either pay the full rate or find a new apt.

Look we all know that this apt complex is called home to many well to do downtown workers(ie, lawyers, govt official and others) who have the means to support themselves. In other words, these well heeled individuals are living in prime downtown waterfront property for peanuts. All the while being directly subsidized by the taxpayer.

Why is this allowed to continue? Can't the Common Council or the Control Board force the city to sell this valuable real estate to these developers?

It seems to me that they should have that power. Why is nothing being done?

Call me ignorant if I dont seem to see the big picture!

[moadib]

They should replace the BMHA w/rental vouchers.

Theres no more federal funding for BMHA police or housing security

There cutting federal funds to build and maintain BMHA housing.

The entire country is moving to rental vouchers and subsidizing mixed income developments so people can live where there are jobs.

The BMHA used to bring federal funds to Buffalo so atleast it brought money into the area but I would spend one cent out of local tax dollars for any municipality to own or maintain municipal housing...it just wharehouses the poor in ghettos and creates a buracracy of government employees.

[Linda_D]

If I remember correctly, the issue wasn't simply with low-income tenants but with the many long term, moderate income tenants and how to protect them from being forced out by high rents in a private building complex. I believe that the Mayor promised that tenants wouldn't be forced out, that some accommodation would be made for them. That may be the sticking point.

I don't think that there is much support on the Common Council, or among city residents, for forcing hundreds of moderate-income people out of their long time apartments so that the buildings can be converted into high-priced housing that only the wealthy can afford.

I also doubt that the city would realize much actual tax revenue from the Marine Drive complex since I expect that a significant portion of the renovations would be paid for by taxpayers through subsidies of one kind or another (which is how things work in downtown Buffalo).

There are plenty of empty, or nearly empty, buildings in downtown Buffalo that could be converted into apartments if there's a real market for them, and maybe that's the real reason that this "project" has stalled: market forces. Buffalo has lots of beautiful apartments in older buildings (ie, having "character") available for much less rent than any of the new downtown apartments would go for, particularly in the area along Delaware, Elmwood, and Franklin. These offer free off-street parking, convenience to bus routes, walking to shopping, Delaware Park, the Elmwood Strip, etc, etc Sorry, but if I was going to move into a city apartment, I'd take a classy place near Delaware Park over anything on Marine Drive, particularly if I'd have to pay a lot more for the downtown one.

[speaker]

I think Marine Drive should not be touched. They are by no means "luxury apartments" and I doubt any really well to do tenants live there. It would take a lot of money, I can't even guess how much, to make them into upper class dwellings. And why should the very well to do take them over, anyway? Buffalo would not realize that great a profit. They do have a great view from some of the apartments, but keep in mind they were built in the 50's, I think, as projects and have drawbacks which are not easily remedied.
How do I know? I lived there for a couple of years 10-12 years ago. All kitchens and bathrooms are archaic, and the tenant moving in has to make their own improvements. And I mean--archaic. The kitchen has a washtublike sink and almost no cupboards. Small old fashioned counter. Laundry facilities are in a small room on the first floor. The elevators are small and can be dangerous. But the people who live there are thankful they have a decent place. It would cost millions to bring them up to the level some people seem to think they're already at.
Investigate.

[moadib]

WASNT IT ALREADY PRIVATIZED. DIDNT THEY ABSCOND WITH THE RESERVE FUND?

I remember reading that they had a contract that would liquidate the reserve fund and distribute it to the employees of the Marina Drive Towers as severance pay if it was ever privatized.

Masiello never approved the contract but said that it wasnt worth a lawsuit (gee, Im suprised he said that (sarcasm, hes such a wimp))

Thus, I thought it was already privatized.

SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE BUT UNTIL ITS PRIVATIZED ITS NOT PAYING ANY PROPERTY TAX BECAUSE ITS MUNICIPAL PROPERTY. THAT MEANS THE MARINA DRIVE APARTMENTS NOT ONLY DONT PRODUCE ANY TAX REVENUE BUT THE CITY MAINTAINS LIABILITY (MAINTENANCE, LAWSUITS, ETC) SINCE ITS MUNICIPAL PROPERTY.

NOW, I DONT UNDERSTAND HOW YOU PEOPLE CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT YOUR TAX INCREASES AND YET PROTECT PEOPLE WHO ARE NEEDLESSLY EXEMPT FROM PAYING TAXES.

NOW, I DONT UNDERSTAND HOW YOU PEOPLE CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT POLITICS, PATRONAGE, CORRUPTION, WELFARE, ETC....AND YET BE SILENT ABOUT THE MARINA TOWERS!

PRIVATIZE IT AND WHATEVER TAX DOLLARS WE GET MEANS LESS TAXES AND LESS LIABILITY THAT THE REST OF US HAVE TO BARE!

NO WONDER NOTHING EVER CHANGES. YOU PEOPLE HAVE YOUR HEAD UP YOUR REAR!

[biker]

Linda:

The Marine Drive apartments surfaces as an "issue" every six or seven years and then quietly fades from sight.

Some of the times it's the racially unbalanced demographics of its tenants base. Other times, it's way below-market rental rates on some of the choicest apartments in the City. Say what you may about cramped or outdated kitchens, most of us can't touch waterfront apartments at those rents.

You skirted close to the real reasons this has again faded from site. Those moderate income tenants. Linda-these aren't average seniors, scraping by on savings and social security in their golden years.

These are the fathers and mothers or aunts and uncles of those in current positions of power in the City government. Or former Councilmen or Commisioners themselves.

This is simply another "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

The current leadership won't drastically change at Marine Drive on the implicit understanding that when they or their related oldsters need to live their.

Isn't this funny: we're talking about who's privileged to live in the "nicest" public housing project.

We beat each other up over crumbs while the NFTA sits on hundreds of acres of undeveloped waterfront land just a short ways away.

[jbinbny]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by speaker
[B]I think Marine Drive should not be touched.


In a cash starved city desperate for "new sources of revenue", nothing is untouchable. Nothing at all!

[Curmudgeon]

I believe that the Mayor promised that tenants wouldn't be forced out, that some accommodation would be made for them.

accommodation = subsidized payments from the taxpayers of the city to the new private-sector owners of the building to cover the difference between the true free-market value of said rental property and the taxpayer-provided gift to the politicially-connected tenant.

Linda - you suffer from Status-quo-liosis. Like Scoliosis, it's a curvature of the spine that prevents the afflicted from effectively bearing a burden.

Please purchase yourself a spine and cut these people off of the public teat. They don't need it, and if they are that bad off, put them in the BMHA system with everybody else.

[jbinbny]

They are by no means "luxury apartments" and I doubt any really well to do tenants live there.

Maybe right now in their current 'housing authority" condition, they are not luxury apts. But it's the location and the $$$$ that this cash strapped city would get if they sold this monument to liberal equality to private developers..WHO WOULD TURN THEM INTO LUXURY APTS!!!

[jbinbny]

What the heck is so terrible about this proposal anyway????


Cant some people ever accept a good deal when it's on the table??


I know masiello has difficulties in this area!

[biker]

Originally posted by jbinbny
But it's the location and the $$$$ that this cash strapped city would get if they sold this monument to liberal equality to private developers..WHO WOULD TURN THEM INTO LUXURY APTS!!!

There is no equality here, of either liberal or conservative bent.

It's a lie, like anything any government says.

The communists perfected a system of "equality": low prices for all; scarcity for almost all; supply for a very very very few.

These are not just "average" folks living here. You guys should be able to figure this out.

A very below market, non-luxury apartment is a very valuable commodity, in short, restricted, controlled (y'all beginning to catch my drift!). A pretty good apartment for the parents of government "elite". At least what passes for elite around here.

Curmie is right. Kick em out and let them fend with the rest of the BMHA tenants. Bet they find some nice doubles in North Buffalo right quick.

[Curmudgeon]

Curmie is right. Kick em out and let them fend with the rest of the BMHA tenants. Bet they find some nice doubles in North Buffalo right quick.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[speaker]

You just don't know your facts. Anyone can apply there, I had a 2 yr wait, and anyone is welcome to "see' an apartment. You will see it's far from being a luxury complex.Most people there, at the time I lived there, were living on a small pension or retirement. The size apartment depends on your income (1bdrm, 2, or more).
And I still maintain, it would cost millions, or more? to bring the complex up to standards that you all seem to have in mind. The building is all concrete and bricks, impossible for plumbing and wiring to be upgraded. The tenants do the flowers and many other things. But wy don't you see for yourself.
It was built as a project for poor people, but had to be disbanded because of the terrible things that happened there. Murder, rape and lots more. A high rise apartment building for the poor has proven to be disasterous because the median age is often very low, maybe 13-16 years of age. So the requirements had to be changed.
Marine Drive has had its scandals, but has generally been a success story for the type of multiple dwelling it is right now.
But do go and find out for your selves. I'm sure any one of you could get an apartment there any time you want.

[jbinbny]

Originally posted by speaker
You just don't know your facts. Anyone can apply there, I had a 2 yr wait, and anyone is welcome to "see' an apartment. You will see it's far from being a luxury complex.Most people there, at the time I lived there, were living on a small pension or retirement. The size apartment depends on your income (1bdrm, 2, or more).
And I still maintain, it would cost millions, or more? to bring the complex up to standards that you all seem to have in mind. The building is all concrete and bricks, impossible for plumbing and wiring to be upgraded. The tenants do the flowers and many other things. But wy don't you see for yourself.
It was built as a project for poor people, but had to be disbanded because of the terrible things that happened there. Murder, rape and lots more. A high rise apartment building for the poor has proven to be disasterous because the median age is often very low, maybe 13-16 years of age. So the requirements had to be changed.
Marine Drive has had its scandals, but has generally been a success story for the type of multiple dwelling it is right now.
But do go and find out for your selves. I'm sure any one of you could get an apartment there any time you want.

Get this boondoggle out of goverment hands and put it into the hands of PRIVATE ENTERPRISE where it belongs!!!!

Then step back and watch what happens!!!!!

[hacktivist]

Originally posted by speaker
I had a 2 yr wait, . . . . . . . I'm sure any one of you could get an apartment there any time you want.

Get your story straight: is it a 2 year wait, or can you waltz in and get an apartment?

As jbinbny said, sell it off to a private developer. That is a very valuable piece of property. I doubt the city makes any money on it, whereas a private developer would at least be paying property taxes.