Downtown Housing

[WestCoastPerspective]

Interesting development:

Reported in this weeks' Business First-
Norstar Development is under contract to purchase the Shoreline Apratments on Niagara Street downtown. They are paying $13 million to acquire and renovate the 142 unit complex to make them more attractive to people seeking market rate apartments downtown. Work is to include removing two buildings and giving the remaining nine buildings a new facade and new windows and railings.

I thought these were subsidized rentals, but apparently they've been market rate, just with out of town owners and not improved over the years. I think this is proof positive that the downtown residential market is improving if someone is paying this much for 'fringe' property.

[biker]

Overall, it strikes me as a good thing if people are moving back into downtown.

I am puzzled as to why it's happening now. Things have gotten so hot, I saw a presentation where someone has built a new building to look like an "old" loft.

I seem to remember that conversion of old space to apartments had been held back by building codes. Something about rules set statewide by NYC economics didn't make sense in Buffalo.

Something must have changed, but I haven't heard what it was.

BTW-are the Shoreline Apts the ones made out of concrete brick down at the foot of Niagara Street?

[WestCoastPerspective]

image courtesy of Steel

They look nice from the aerial, but I've never been a big fan of this complex. I didn't even realize they were market-rate. I think there are two complexes, the section closer to I-190 may be subsidized. Anyway- it is good news that Norstar is putting money into them. Right now they look too much like concrete bunkers. Though they do have that industrial loft look to them so there is potential. The article said the units are studios and one-bedrooms and are 70 percent occupied, so we would look at it as 40 new residents if they fill it up. It will be the first upgrades in 30 years! Norstar worked on the Ellicott Mall redo and did a fairly good job. They also lost out on being named developer for the outer harbor and I also read that they have a new-construction residential project in downtown Syracuse. James Pitts is working for them.

Builders had three issues with State Bldg. codes: One was the requirement for sprinklers in multi-unit residential conversions. It is very expensive. The second was inflexibility in providing elevators in multi-floor buildings. Even a three story rehab required an elevator I believe. Lastly was the requirement for lead pipes instead of plastic- it drove up the cost. I don't know if the codes have been changed but I know they've been working on them.

[Linda_D]

This is the kind of downtown development that's needed -- small, realistic projects done with private funds that fill market needs, not some pie-in-sky silver bullet.

I don't know if this project is going to add many residents to "downtown" because they're going to take down two buildings, but I think it will probably provide nice housing that people who actually want to live downtown (primarily young singles) can actually afford. Not many young college grads can afford to rent $1,000+ month apartments or buy $200,000 condos, but these one-bedrooms and studios should be within their price range.

[biker]

WestCoast:

Thanks for filling me in on the Shorelines. From the air, they look real nice. From the ground, the look like a fortress. And that brick. Was every building constructed at that time (the "Tower of Love", err the City Court Building and the NF Public LIbrary) using the same concrete brick? It's ugly.

BTW-Why is Norstar the developer. That is/was a bank. I forget who is the ultimate parent now.

[WestCoastPerspective]

Yes- I think there was a firesale of that concrete-grooved block back in the 1970's- any project built on the cheap used it! ughhhh The stuff is ugly and weathers horribly.

Norstar is a seperate development company. They have no affiliation with the bank. I believe the principal owners are from Toronto, this is from their website:

Norstar USA continues to expand its development, construction and management activities in the United States, with headquarters in Buffalo, NY and offices in Dallas Texas and Tampa Florida. Norstar USA specializes in the development of all forms of residential properties, including luxury garden apartments, affordable rental developments and homes for first-time buyers and empty-nesters.

[biker]

Thans WestCoast

I'm not a big "branding" kind of guy, but I'm surprised that the Norstar name wasn't protected.

On the other hand, if I follow the pedigree right, Liberty National Bank was bought by an Albany institution that changed its name to Norstar. Which was bought by Fleet. Which was bought by Bank of America. I think I've got that right.

Yeah, I guess Norstar doesn't have that much value to whatever bank is left.

I thought this was public housing. Even if it's market rate, it could still be subsidized housing. How can a public housing development be sold without all sorts of public discussion?

I think any development of private housing is a good idea, even those $1,000 babies Linda doesn't seem to like. (As George Arthur used to say, "I don't care what color the new tenants are, as long as they have plenty of green.). Let em develop all the $1,000 jobbies they can market and then 800.00 and then 600.00. Fill downtown up with people with money and businesses will follow. Not mega offices, but low-scale, customer-focused businesses.

[WestCoastPerspective]

According to Business First, the complex was privately owned by an out of town firm. I don't think the BMHA owns any of the buildings over there- the other half of the complex I believe is also privately owned, but is low-income or subsidized housing.

The key to downtown is the smaller projects and residential is going to drive it. Even if they're rental at first, eventually those people will move out and hopefully keep their roots in the city. Next will be for-sale units, and that'll be a good barometer of how deep the market is. Holling Press is opening soon and they have more affordable units. The finishes aren't as luxurious:



View:

[biker]

What are the pictures about?

[WestCoastPerspective]

Downtown housing above expectations
James Fink
Business First
The market for downtown residential units is a lot stronger than most people want to acknowledge.

In fact, it may be a lot stronger than one group thought three years ago.

A downtown residential unit demand survey, released Wednesday by Zimmerman/Volk Associates Inc., said the central business district can absorb about 375 new apartments, townhouses and condos on an annual basis.

In 2002, a group of architecture and planning officials said the downtown absorption was about 100 units per year.

So what happened?

"People started believing in the new Buffalo," said Mayor Anthony Masiello.

Laurie Volk, the consultant whose firm handled the survey, agrees.

"People are looking for urban neighborhoods," she said.

While the earlier study indicated that Buffalo was more prone to see apartments built in downtown, Volk said the tide has shifted. More people are looking for condos and ownership possibilities, she said.

"The baby boomer generation would love to be in downtown, if the appropriate place was there," she said.

[Linda_D]

I wonder what will happen to the demand for downtown housing when the next big blizzard leaves all those folks stuck in their "urban neighborhoods" with no way to get to the grocery store and all the restaurants closed up?

Since the last major snow storm hit in 2000, I think, Buffalo's due a mean one in the next 2 or 3 years I'm guessing.

[WNYresident]

Why would anyone even worry about a snow storm that happens once in a great while? Yes it happens but it's what you get for living in WNY. Is it that bad in the city when we get 12" of snow?

[WestCoastPerspective]

Leave it to Linda to snow on the parade!

The pics are from the Holling Loft project- interior and west view from the upper floors.

[dcoffee]

Thanks for starting this thread WestCoast, you hit it right on the head, small residential projects are the key to downtown. I myself am looking to move down there with my girlfriend in the near future. I'm currently reading through the Queen City Hub plan and am very interested in what they have to say about downtown neighborhoods uniting the various other projects that are taking form.
One Housing idea mentioned in the plan seems particularly interesting to me, there’s a surface parking lot near Lafayette Square that is perfect for residential development. What a beautiful cityscape to be a part of, overlooking Lafayette Square, steps from the central library, small commercial development along Main st. including a cute coffee shop and a rite aid to get everyday necessities from, a block from the metro rail… and every time I go to Lafayette Square I’m struck by the view down Court Street, that’s something you can’t get anywhere else, awe inspiring streetscapes like that are what make urban living appealing. I’d say that it’s one of the safest investments in Buffalo for anyone with the means to do it right. I’d spend a couple extra bucks to live there.
Also isn’t the Lafayette hotel slated to undergo some restoration? I know it seems like a kind of sketchy place to live currently though the building is fantastic.

[therising]

dcoffee

I applaud you for wanting to make the move downtown, if I was younger (and single) I would do it myself, without a question.

But please do not take away my parking lot. I've become a lazy suburbanite since moving to WNY. I don't want to walk all the way to the Adam ramp every day.

Anyway, that lot in question is owned by Ciminelli. I'd be surpised if they ever sold (or developed) it. They use it as a selling point for the Lafayette Court building. Their tenants get first dibs on the monthly parking.