Close the ice rink or the tax payers pick up the tab?

[wnyfuture]

We are going to try this poll again with registered members only. I prefer town residents to vote only. Should the town residents be on the hook for the mold removal, subsudizing the town hockey program, and the repairs/new equipment needed for the ice rink?

Council member Bove has been quoted the ice rink needs 1.3 million in repairs/new equipment

The town pours money into the town's hockey program to keep the costs low

In a July 12, 2004 board meeting, it was stated by the former Supervisor, that the costs of the ice rink for utilities and maintenance was between $300,000- $500,000 a year. He also stated in a Sept 20, 2004 board meeting that the town was helping to subsidize the costs for the towns youth hockey program to the tune of about $250,000 (per year).

Christina Bove on the ice rink.

The town rink made it through the season and will be shutting down this weekend. Replacement costs for floor removal and new system would be about $1.3 million. A test has been done to test the structure of the beams because of the age of the building. The town is waiting for those results.
The Hockey Association would like a new rink with 2 pads. That cost would be probably $4-5 million. What to do about the ice rink will be an issue facing the Town Board. A thorough study would need to be done, with possible options, involving usage and cost analysis. Input would also be needed from taxpayers who would help make any decision.

[wsresident33]

So would that mean that the House program would just shut down, or do they get to pay their fair share as well?

[Niagara]

So would that mean that the House program would just shut down, or do they get to pay their fair share as well?

If it were to stay open, everyone using it should pay their fair share. No more free ride, I mean ice time. But really, I think this talk of covering expenses is mostly that. It is one thing to talk the talk, and another to walk the walk.

The poll will initially go against the ice rink, but the ice rink people will come out and move the poll in the direction of keeping it open. It should go to a referendum. In a referendum, it would probably pass to keep it open, maybe even build a new one because the ice rink people are very organized. Should it be passed is another story. An organized minority can really goose up the taxes on a disinterested majority, except the majority is becoming tired of high taxes. Real tired.

[Sylvan]

Why doesnt the town just put the rink and property it sits on up for sale?

If it doesnt sell by opening day of hockey season, the town should just donate it to the hockey league, and an improvement contractor could work out some kind of deal for their services.

Anti-hockey league citizens should just shut up and get rid of it!!!!!!!!

[Niagara]

Why doesnt the town just put the rink and property it sits on up for sale?

If it doesnt sell by opening day of hockey season, the town should just donate it to the hockey league, and an improvement contractor could work out some kind of deal for their services.

Anti-hockey league citizens should just shut up and get rid of it!!!!!!!!

Now how does some citizens just 'get rid of it?' In this state there are no such things as referendums except for the purpose Gaughan proposes or what the town boards might allow.

[FisherRd]

An organized minority can really goose up the taxes on a disinterested majority, except the majority is becoming tired of high taxes. Real tired.

Like the school bus votes that just keep going to a vote until they get passed. Or Seniors. What Politician wants to piss off Seniors?

On an unrelated note not directed towards Manny, how much money did the Town hand Americorp in 2007 (over $2,000,000) interest free? How much of that money has been payed back to date? How did West Seneca residents benefit from handing over $2,000,000 interest free?
What did that money go for and how is Americorp justifying it? Meaning what progress can they report on that investment? What numbers justify that expenditure?

How is it we're crying over the ice rink, and the Americorp millions (that benefit less residents than the ice rink) seems to be a moot issue?

[Spirit of Ebenezer]

Has anyone heard at any board meeting of Wally seeking $1.3 million for the rink for such repairs as is spelled out in this e-mail ? The truth is the only funds being sought are for surface mold cleanup. Nothing about new floors and "systems". AND it looks like at least one of the dissenters on the board is receptive to the clean up given they want to rebid the work with the intent of reducing the cleanup costs.

This is a poll based on a supposed scenario.

[dtwarren]

The Town should not pay one cent towards remediation unless the refrigeration systems can be inspected and tested and certified that it will function for at least one season.

If the refrigeration system cannot be so certified we should consider other alternatives. If it can be so certified we should remediate and use this time to consider alternatives.

These alternatives could include demolishing the rink and constructing a new building with two rinks and other facilities like basketball courts, indoor gym along with offices for the recreation department and perhaps extra office space for other town offices to help alleviate the space crunch in town hall.

[Niagara]

The Town should not pay one cent towards remediation unless the refrigeration systems can be inspected and tested and certified that it will function for at least one season.

Who in the world would certify that the ice rink equipment would function for one season. Better, why would they. For the benefit of some small compensation, they would occur a liability which could be large.

These alternatives could include demolishing the rink and constructing a new building with two rinks and other facilities like basketball courts, indoor gym along with offices for the recreation department and perhaps extra office space for other town offices to help alleviate the space crunch in town hall.

Anything else on the wish list? I thought the issue was excess cost, and lower taxes, not higher. When one rink is a big loser, what is to prevent two rinks from losing twice as much? Lessons learned from previous mistakes?

[dtwarren]

You are better off killing multiple birds with a single stone. The fact that the ice rink loses money can be corrected by increasing the usage fees and licensing fees. We need more room for town offices. I believe it is better to take care of these in a single swipe then be nickel and dimed at every turn.

We cannot change the fact that the prior administration neglected certain things in town that necessitates this. What we can do is make sure that we go forward in the most economical way possible and in accordance with all competitive bidding requirements. If this means keeping the rink closed for a year or to so be it.

[Niagara]

You are better off killing multiple birds with a single stone. The fact that the ice rink loses money can be corrected by increasing the usage fees and licensing fees.

There are no licensing fee or advertising revenue at present. If the management is the same, what is likely to change?

We need more room for town offices. I believe it is better to take care of these in a single swipe then be nickel and dimed at every turn.

Sure, why spend nothing, or two million, when you can spend six and run a million dollar a year deficit on operations.

We cannot change the fact that the prior administration neglected certain things in town that necessitates this. What we can do is make sure that we go forward in the most economical way possible and in accordance with all competitive bidding requirements. If this means keeping the rink closed for a year or to so be it.

The constant demonization of the previous administration is not fair. Paul Clark was in office for sixteen years. He had four four year terms. He got elected because he had wide support in this town because people thought he was doing a good job. Mario Cuomo was in office for sixteen years also. After that many years, people even got tired of Saint Mario.

So far there are three people who voted keep ice rink open and raise taxes.

[wnyfuture]

There are no licensing fee or advertising revenue at present. If the management is the same, what is likely to change?


Sure, why spend nothing, or two million, when you can spend six and run a million dollar a year deficit on operations.


The constant demonization of the previous administration is not fair. Paul Clark was in office for sixteen years. He had four four year terms. He got elected because he had wide support in this town because people thought he was doing a good job. Mario Cuomo was in office for sixteen years also. After that many years, people even got tired of Saint Mario.

So far there are three people who voted keep ice rink open and raise taxes.

We have to suffer what our past presidents have done, the same we have to suffer because of the Paul Clark era

I'll post the math again, the cost of the rink is roughly over 600k, we would need to charge $275 a hour when other rinks are charging $185, the proshop & concessions only pays $800 a month (highest bid), $0 in sponsorship.

Income
Sponsorship - The rink isn't sponsored by anyone, no ads on the boards = $0
ProShop and Concessions - $1k per month (Sept thru April) = $8000

Let's assume they sell every hour of ice, please note, ice at night is available.
Ice Time - Let's assume $185 since that is what the pepsi center charges, cheektowaga, etc
Weekends - 17 hours of possible ice sold (Saturday and Sunday) 17 * 2 = 34 hours of ice sold
Weekdays - 8 hours per day, 5 times a week =40 hours of ice sold
One Week = 67 hours * 185 = $13690 will be rounded to $14,000.00 for one-week period breakdown. The rink is opened roughly 28 weeks
Ice Time Income = $392,000.00

Proshop = 8000.00
Ice Time Income = $392,000.00
Total = $400,000.00

[dtwarren]

Even if we halt the operations of the ice rink then we have a useless structure which would have to be demolished or transformed to other uses which will cost money. As I said we can do things to correct the cost issues relative to the rink, we can also address some current needs that are facing the town. I would much rather spend $4 million and take care of the space issues and maintain and/or improve some quality of life programs for the town residents then spend for them with overlap costs.

I do not constantly demonize the prior administration. It is a fact that the prior administration did neglect certain things in town. The neglect of the ice rink was admitted to by Mr. Graber. I do not believe that it is a coincidence that we stopped certain maintenance on the town's ice rink around the same time that the super ice rink was being proposed for Clinton Street. Regardless of the reason the fact remains that it was not cared for.

[dtwarren]

I'll post the math again, the cost of the rink is roughly over 600k, we would need to charge $275 a hour when other rinks are charging $185, the proshop & concessions only pays $800 a month (highest bid), $0 in sponsorship.

Is there a breakdown on the costs?

[Niagara]

Even if we halt the operations of the ice rink then we have a useless structure which would have to be demolished or transformed to other uses which will cost money.

Wouldn't it be better to demolish it. I imagine it could be demolished for well under 188,000 dollars.

As I said we can do things to correct the cost issues relative to the rink, we can also address some current needs that are facing the town. I would much rather spend $4 million and take care of the space issues and maintain and/or improve some quality of life programs for the town residents then spend for them with overlap costs.

What space issues. The town seems to function just fine with the buildings they now have. Give the town bigger buildings, and it will just fill them with more expensive employees.

I do not constantly demonize the prior administration. It is a fact that the prior administration did neglect certain things in town.

My view is they were trying to run a tight ship. The taxes are too high now, and you seem to be wanting to raise them DT.

The neglect of the ice rink was admitted to by Mr. Graber. I do not believe that it is a coincidence that we stopped certain maintenance on the town's ice rink around the same time that the super ice rink was being proposed for Clinton Street. Regardless of the reason the fact remains that it was not cared for.

Sounds like they poured money into the ice rink. If there is a fault, the fault is they did not charge more, which the present town board is not addressing either.