Can someone finally just answer this?

[WNYresident]

Sure cost benefit means alot to me but you picking on the COB when the enitre state and nation follow the same rules doesn't mean a whole lot. This is not a phenomena unto Buffalo alone, it's works at all levels of government throughout the entire country.

So why pick on Farina? Did he kick your bike?

Go after each and everyone of them. Are you trying to justify this? Well they do it so it's ok for them to do it? That's utter BS.

Nail all of them.

Let Buffalo be the first to do thinks ethically and accountable.

[CSense]

[quote=WNYresident]Go after each and everyone of them. Are you trying to justify this? NO

Well they do it so it's ok for them to do it? NO

That's utter BS.YES

Nail all of them. YES

Let Buffalo be the first to do thinks ethically and accountable.HUH?[/quote]

You missed my point, no one is going to get busted on anything if it's legal. It's not even unethical. You must first enact a law that prohibits the practice, until then it is simply politics.

[Linda_D]

[quote=CSense]

Go after each and everyone of them. Are you trying to justify this? NO

Well they do it so it's ok for them to do it? NO

That's utter BS.YES

Nail all of them. YES

Let Buffalo be the first to do thinks ethically and accountable.HUH?[/quote]

You missed my point, no one is going to get busted on anything if it's legal. It's not even unethical. You must first enact a law that prohibits the practice, until then it is simply politics.

Even if it were illegal, you have to have proof that will hold up in court not just speculation and suppositions from an ex-resident living a thousand miles away who is well-known for bearing a grudge against any and everyone who works for the COB or the BMHA.

[winfield31]

[quote=Linda_D]

Even if it were illegal, you have to have proof that will hold up in court not just speculation and suppositions from an ex-resident living a thousand miles away who is well-known for bearing a grudge against any and everyone who works for the COB or the BMHA.

thank you linda , plus it's not "illegal" , you can't be arrested for it , it's not a misdemeaner , not even on the level of a traffic ticket , it's a violation of a "union" agreement that was "put" into the city charter fo reasons unknown........One theory is the WWII one , the other was because travel was difficult many moons ago , they needed firemen & police on-site quickly , so if they lived in the sticks , time would be lost for responces , now with our modern vehicles & of course improved roads/traffic , this is obsolete , so if you truly want Buffalo & WNY better , you "pull" from the popluation of anywhere you can find the best & the brightest (why limit it to such a small area ?) , not stalk those you accuse of creating a "crime" , which it isn't CRIMINAL.........

[joe d.]

[QUOTE=winfield31]

thank you linda , plus it's not "illegal" , you can't be arrested for it , it's not a misdemeaner , not even on the level of a traffic ticket , it's a violation of a "union" agreement that was "put" into the city charter fo reasons unknown........One theory is the WWII one , the other was because travel was difficult many moons ago , they needed firemen & police on-site quickly , so if they lived in the sticks , time would be lost for responces , now with our modern vehicles & of course improved roads/traffic , this is obsolete , so if you truly want Buffalo & WNY better , you "pull" from the popluation of anywhere you can find the best & the brightest (why limit it to such a small area ?) , not stalk those you accuse of creating a "crime" , which it isn't CRIMINAL.........

IF A BUFFALO SCHOOL TEACHER..pulled the same CLOAK AND DAGGER regarding residency as Farina......how long do you think it would be before the tenured teacher was fired?????
Maybe then Mayor Griffin was RIGHT ON THE MONEY ...with Farina!!

[kernwatch]

It is troubling that often folks who know nothing about city law put out repeated disinformation.

The current residency laws were implemented in the updated City Charter after many months of public discussion under the leadership of respected city attorney James Magavern.

Masielle had promised strenuous residency enforcement on all city workers in his housing platform "Neighborhoods Safe Clean & Strong" in 1993, which I helped to write.

According to the Charter the consequence of violating residency is dismissal, much more serious than a parking ticket.

Masiello proceeded to appoint four successive Residency Officers, but the law quickly became a farce because top officials scoffed at the law, starting with Masiello's Chief-of-Staff Steve Banko who lived in Hamburg, Housing Commissioner Tony Maconi who lived in Amherst, & BMHA Assis Exec Tommy Wms who moved to Clarence from WS Lafayette near Grant within months of his appointment.

And of course more recently Tony Farina is the first top city official to live in another County. The longest lived residency scofflaw is youth counsellor and city landlord Richard B May, who moved to Tonawanda in 1977 from Beatrice Ave near Ontario St.

Quickly-fired Residency Officer #2 Charles Flynn actually got me prosecuted for complaining on the Residency HOTLINE that he was not enforcing residency on top officials. The HOTLINE has also been disbanded.

Equal justice under law has long been a problem in Bflo, so the city finally just gave up enforcing the law.

I urge that SU posters who do not know anything about topics to please refrain from giving "absolute" (dis)information.

Is there any poster who actually attended any of the dozens of community meetings about City Charter revision in 1996-97?

Here is the outline of Residency Law:

http://www.kernwatch.com/residencylaw.html

CHARTER AND CODE OF THE CITY OF BUFFALO, NEW YORK, v 57 Updated through 2-10-2001 THE CHARTER
§ 24-3. Residency Requirement.

All appointed officers and employees of the City of Buffalo (except those expressly
exempted under New York law) shall be residents of the City at the time of appointment or
hire and maintain such residency during employment.

§ 24-4. Definition of Residency.

Residency shall mean a person's usual and customary place of abode where the individual
lives and regularly stays, the place where the family of any person permanently resides and
the place where any person having no family generally lodges.

§ 24-5. Verification.

Each appointing authority is responsible for verifying compliance with this residency
requirement at the time of appointment or hire and continuation of compliance during
employment.

§ 24-6. Documentation.

All relevant sources of verification or documentation must be considered in determining an
employee's residence. Where an employee's family permanently resides is a significant factor
to consider in determining the employee's residence, but it is not however the only factor that
needs to be considered. The following sources of verification or documentation should also be
considered:

Voter's Registration
Street Directory

Driver's License
Correspondence
Telephone Directory
Bank Records (Account Address)
Utility Receipts
Insurance Policies
Visual Verification
Lease Agreement
Motor Vehicle Registration
Contract for Deed
Tax Receipts
Deed of Trust

This list is not all-inclusive, nor should any one item from this list be considered as absolute
proof of residence or non-residence. All available information should be taken into
consideration.

§ 24-7. Investigation.

If the appointing authority believes that there is reason to suspect that an applicant or
employee does not reside in Buffalo, the appointing authority shall refer such case to the
commissioner of human resources for investigation.

§ 24-8. Annual Statements.

Each appointing authority will be responsible for verifying continued residency by
reexamination, on a random basis, of current residences of officers and employees. Signed
annual statements of residency will be required, subject to collective bargaining obligations.
Any officer or employee found not to be in compliance shall be terminated in accordance with
law.

[winfield31]

[quote=joe d.]

IF A BUFFALO SCHOOL TEACHER..pulled the same CLOAK AND DAGGER regarding residency as Farina......how long do you think it would be before the tenured teacher was fired?????
Maybe then Mayor Griffin was RIGHT ON THE MONEY ...with Farina!!

joe , then & now , Buffalo teachers & Board of Ed. employees have a "wink , wink , nod , nod" residency rule........they NEVER , EVER persue them.........& I'm writing about regular , clerical & non-clerical Board of Ed. workers , they live ALL over , in different counties even , the residency does not matter.........

[winfield31]

It is troubling that often folks who know nothing about city law put out repeated disinformation.

The current residency laws were implemented in the updated City Charter after many months of public discussion under the leadership of respected city attorney James Magavern.

Masielle had promised strenuous residency enforcement on all city workers in his housing platform "Neighborhoods Safe Clean & Strong" in 1993, which I helped to write.

According to the Charter the consequence of violating residency is dismissal, much more serious than a parking ticket.

Masiello proceeded to appoint four successive Residency Officers, but the law quickly became a farce because top officials scoffed at the law, starting with Masiello's Chief-of-Staff Steve Banko who lived in Hamburg, Housing Commissioner Tony Maconi who lived in Amherst, & BMHA Assis Exec Tommy Wms who moved to Clarence from WS Lafayette near Grant within months of his appointment.

And of course more recently Tony Farina is the first top city official to live in another County. The longest lived residency scofflaw is youth counsellor and city landlord Richard B May, who moved to Tonawanda in 1977 from Beatrice Ave near Ontario St.

Quickly-fired Residency Officer #2 Charles Flynn actually got me prosecuted for complaining on the Residency HOTLINE that he was not enforcing residency on top officials. The HOTLINE has also been disbanded.

Equal justice under law has long been a problem in Bflo, so the city finally just gave up enforcing the law.

I urge that SU posters who do not know anything about topics to please refrain from giving "absolute" (dis)information.

Is there any poster who actually attended any of the dozens of community meetings about City Charter revision in 1996-97?

Here is the outline of Residency Law:

http://www.kernwatch.com/residencylaw.html

CHARTER AND CODE OF THE CITY OF BUFFALO, NEW YORK, v 57 Updated through 2-10-2001 THE CHARTER
§ 24-3. Residency Requirement.

All appointed officers and employees of the City of Buffalo (except those expressly
exempted under New York law) shall be residents of the City at the time of appointment or
hire and maintain such residency during employment.

§ 24-4. Definition of Residency.

Residency shall mean a person's usual and customary place of abode where the individual
lives and regularly stays, the place where the family of any person permanently resides and
the place where any person having no family generally lodges.

§ 24-5. Verification.

Each appointing authority is responsible for verifying compliance with this residency
requirement at the time of appointment or hire and continuation of compliance during
employment.

§ 24-6. Documentation.

All relevant sources of verification or documentation must be considered in determining an
employee's residence. Where an employee's family permanently resides is a significant factor
to consider in determining the employee's residence, but it is not however the only factor that
needs to be considered. The following sources of verification or documentation should also be
considered:

Voter's Registration
Street Directory

Driver's License
Correspondence
Telephone Directory
Bank Records (Account Address)
Utility Receipts
Insurance Policies
Visual Verification
Lease Agreement
Motor Vehicle Registration
Contract for Deed
Tax Receipts
Deed of Trust

This list is not all-inclusive, nor should any one item from this list be considered as absolute
proof of residence or non-residence. All available information should be taken into
consideration.

§ 24-7. Investigation.

If the appointing authority believes that there is reason to suspect that an applicant or
employee does not reside in Buffalo, the appointing authority shall refer such case to the
commissioner of human resources for investigation.

§ 24-8. Annual Statements.

Each appointing authority will be responsible for verifying continued residency by
reexamination, on a random basis, of current residences of officers and employees. Signed
annual statements of residency will be required, subject to collective bargaining obligations.
Any officer or employee found not to be in compliance shall be terminated in accordance with
law.

if residency is SO MUCH more serious then a parking ticket , name ONE person fired over residency ? Word on the street is 60% of city workers do not live in the city...........the ones that are generally required to live in the city are those that physically work in the hall itself............Try not paying a parking ticket & watch the havoc your life would be in............IMHO residency is unconstituional at any rate.........a person works from 8 AM until 4 PM to make the city a better place , does a fair days work & receives a fair days wage , WHO is anyone to tell that person where to sleep ? Should we force them to only buy food , clothes , gas , tools , & EVERYTHING within the city limits TOO ? Where does Big Brother leave people & their rights alone ?! Plus if it's good for one (to be able to live outside of the city) , it should be fair for all , very unequal treatment.........Or either ALL should HAVE to live in the city ! One way or the other , not special rights for some of the "chosen ones"..........BTW , a lot of loopoles in the charter.....they're (the adminstration) working with the law dept. right now to close the "gaps".........

[joe d.]

[QUOTE=winfield31]

joe , then & now , Buffalo teachers & Board of Ed. employees have a "wink , wink , nod , nod" residency rule........they NEVER , EVER persue them.........& I'm writing about regular , clerical & non-clerical Board of Ed. workers , they live ALL over , in different counties even , the residency does not matter.........

SERIOUSLY..I BEG TO DIFFER..I have a child who is a Buffalo school teacher..with tenure. She was in process of beginning search to purchase another home to live in ,outside of Buffalo(suburbs). She was told that if she moved out of Buffalo city limits, she would jeopardize her job and would be terminated.
I know there are some deviations to this residency requirement for teachers, depending upon their specialty in education as there is a shortage of certain educational needs in the Bflo school system. The system is a good ol boy with a 'WINK N NOD" in many instances.
This subject is one that political leaders rather not touch as it goes too deep and too far into politcal /employee supporters ,who would be the first to feel the impact of this enforcement if it ever really was pressed.

[GG716]

[quote=winfield31it's a violation of a "union" agreement that was "put" into the city charter fo reasons unknown.[/quote]

So it is "OK" and no consequences should be had when the UNION violates their contract with the city but for some strange reason it's wrong when the CITY violates the contract with the union?
Whatever the reason it is in the contract it's in the contract. The union flips out and sues the city every time they violate the contract. So why doesn’t the city sue the union when their members violate the terms of the contract they mutually agreed upon.?

[winfield31]

So it is "OK" and no consequences should be had when the UNION violates their contract with the city but for some strange reason it's wrong when the CITY violates the contract with the union?
Whatever the reason it is in the contract it's in the contract. The union flips out and sues the city every time they violate the contract. So why doesn’t the city sue the union when their members violate the terms of the contract they mutually agreed upon.?

the city/county VIOLATE the contracts incessantly , why do you think that there's a record number of grievances being filed ? It's because of their blatant disregard for the union contracts............they don't care about the lawyers fees because you're footing the bill , so are we........but you still have to prove someone is violating residency & "domocile" is the key word & loophole.........believe me , the "powers-that-be" are far from perfect , if there were no unions , every worker would be a relative of a politician with a "no-show" job.............

[GG716]

the city/county VIOLATE the contracts incessantly , why do you think that there's a record number of grievances being filed ? It's because of their blatant disregard for the union contracts............

If neither party adheres to the terms of the contract then why have a contract to begin with? At least make it easier to enforce for both sides. It's quite sad that NEITHER side has any morals or work ethics these days.

[CSense]

CSense:

Do ethics & accountability not matter?

Actually, I was mistaken. Farina filed only TWO press releases between May 2007 & May 2008. At Farina's approximate $80K annual salary-plus-benefits, that looks like $40K per press release?

Is that cost-beneficial to Bflo taxpayers?

Ironically, Farina is an "award-winning" investigative journalist who could really help Bflo by exposing impropriety . . but apparently that is not part of SanFilippo's "PLAN"?

Indeed, the annual plan of audits filed long ago by SanFilippo appears to be "Audit-lite".

Hold up Dickie, You went from work to residency, keep on topic. May beef is with you trying to criminalize Farnia's current role in the Sanfilippo's office. Well? You can't so be quiet.

Just like you always do, move the topic to feed you stance. He lives in the city, so what now?

[bigpoppapuff]

Hold up Dickie, You went from work to residency, keep on topic. May beef is with you trying to criminalize Farnia's current role in the Sanfilippo's office. Well? You can't so be quiet.

Just like you always do, move the topic to feed you stance. He lives in the city, so what now?

ridiculous,csense....kern apparently gets a free pass here from yokes and res....it's sad...and disturbing at the same time...

[WNYresident]

ridiculous,csense....kern apparently gets a free pass here from yokes and res....it's sad...and disturbing at the same time...

What are you even talking about.

SO far Kern has been correct. Now he should polish up with his people interaction skills but otherwise he was correct and Tony Farina was in the wrong. Show's you how "accountable" local governments are doesn't it.

Richard Kern should lay off the "who are you" comments because he should have learned by now people just don't like it. No one is going to blurt out who they are. IF someone wants to tell someone who they are fine...but for the most part people will not.