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Thread: If this is going on in Pa do you think it Aint happening IN NY

  1. #1
    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    If this is going on in Pa do you think it Aint happening IN NY

    I was just Listening To KDKA and this is the big story.If this is going on in Pa what do you want to bet our scumbags in Albany are pulling the same crap. And I am sure its done in both parties but the Dems are the one who got cuaght. Tax payer dollars spent for this kind of crap.

    Charges Filed In Pa. Legislature Bonus Scandal
    HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) ― Twelve people connected to the state House Democratic caucus, including a state representative and the former caucus whip, were charged Thursday after grand jurors concluded that millions of taxpayer dollars were illegally siphoned from the public treasury to underwrite political campaigns.

    Grand jurors reported that public funds were used to dole out hefty taxpayer-financed bonuses under a system in which employees were ranked according to their willingness to pitch in on campaigns; state computers and equipment were commandeered for election purposes; and lucrative public contracts were issued for partisan purposes.

    "It's a very sad day in Pennsylvania," Attorney General Tom Corbett said in announcing the charges.

    Former Democratic whip Mike Veon; Rep. Sean Ramaley, a Beaver County Democrat currently running for state Senate; and Michael Manzo, forced out in November as chief of staff to House Majority Leader Bill DeWeese, D-Greene, were among the 12 people who were charged.

    Corbett, a Republican and potential 2010 gubernatorial candidate, said he expects more arrests.

    He declined to say whether the investigation has uncovered evidence of similar illegal acts within the House Republican, Senate Republican or Senate Democratic caucuses.

    "We have pushed this through fairly and as speedily as we can," Corbett said. "We will continue to do that with the other three caucuses."

    Robert G. Del Greco Jr., Veon's lawyer, said Thursday that Veon has consistently asserted he is innocent of any wrongdoing. Ramaley's lawyer, Philip Ignelzi, said his client denies the charges and "did his job. He did what he was required to do, he did what he was asked to do." Manzo's lawyer, Jim Eisenhower, did not return a phone message seeking comment late Thursday.

    Among the allegations disclosed in two lengthy grand jury presentments released to the public on Thursday:

    When Ramaley ran for the House in 2004, Veon hired him for a part-time, no-work "legislative assistant" job at his Beaver Falls district office, from which Ramaley campaigned. Ramaley was charged with six counts.

    Veon ran a massive and primarily taxpayer-paid political fundraising operation from an office suite in the Capitol. The office raised campaign funds, booked event locations, designed menus and mailed out fundraiser invitations and campaign brochures. Grand jurors wrote they "discovered and reviewed an extraordinary history, dating back many years, of consistent abuses of taxpayer resources" by Veon and his staff.

    As many as 50 House Democratic staffers participated in a 2004 challenge to presidential hopeful Ralph Nader's attempt to get on the Pennsylvania ballot. After Nader was rejected, Veon's congratulatory e-mail to his staff said they "have given John Kerry an even better opportunity to win this state." A similar effort was involved in challenging Carl Romanelli's ballot position in the race against Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Bob Casey in 2006.

    Manzo, whose wife also works for the House Democrats and faces charges in the case, carried on an affair with a woman that began when she was a female intern in 2004 and continued late into 2007. Manzo created a taxpayer-funded job for the woman in Pittsburgh, where she attended graduate school. Although most of the time she had no work to do, she was paid as much as $36,000 in one year. Michael Manzo faces 47 counts; Rachel Manzo, the House Democratic Policy Committee executive director, faces 12 counts.

    Veon used two public employees to take his and his wife's motorcycles to a rally in Sturgis, S.D., in 2004 so that the Veons could fly there and have the motorcycles waiting. The employees' travel expenses, nearly $1,500, were paid by taxpayers. Veon faces 59 counts.

    Jeff Foreman, chief counsel to House Majority Whip Keith McCall, D-Carbon, and a former top Veon aide, engaged in private legal work from his Capitol offices, and three times logged more than 24 work hours in a given day between the two jobs. Royce Morris, Foreman's lawyer, declined to comment about whether Foreman believes he did anything illegal.

    The investigation was initiated after The Patriot-News of Harrisburg reported in January 2007 that secretive legislative bonuses for "meritorious or bonus pay" were being given out.

    Letters to the recipients that bore DeWeese's signature instructed them to keep quiet about the supplemental payments. DeWeese has said he did not know about the letters or the scope of the bonuses. DeWeese was not charged and Corbett declined to comment about him.

    DeWeese issued a statement Thursday saying he was outraged by the allegations.

    "I feel searing disappointment over the actions of those I trusted, yet I am also proud of the staff in our caucus who came forward and told the truth," he said.

    Republicans and Democrats in the House and Senate handed out nearly $4 million in bonuses to their employees in 2005 and 2006, with the largest chunk -- more than half the total -- paid by the House Democrats.

    Veon, who was DeWeese's second-in-command, represented a Beaver County district for 22 years but was voted out of office in 2006 amid the anti-incumbent backlash over the 2005 legislative pay raises.

    Late last year, DeWeese forced out seven Democratic House caucus employees -- including Michael Manzo -- as a result of information that turned up in connection with the bonus investigation. All had received bonuses in 2005-06, in some cases well over $20,000.

    Four other key caucus employees who lost their jobs in November were also charged on Thursday: Scott Brubaker, the director of staffing and administration; Brett Cott, a political strategist and former aide to Veon and DeWeese; Stephen Keefer, the director of information technology; and Earl Mosley, the personnel director.

    Also charged were Jennifer Brubaker, Scott's wife and director of the caucus' Legislative Research Office; Patrick J. Lavelle, a research analyst; and Annamarie Perretta-Rosepink, a former district aide to Veon.

    All 12 were charged with various counts of theft, conflict of interest and conspiracy and are expected to be arraigned before a Harrisburg district judge on Friday. Corbett said they faced substantial jail sentences and that he intends to seek restitution.

    Jennifer Brubaker, Rachel Manzo, Foreman and Lavelle were suspended Thursday without pay or benefits.

    Corbett based the charges on the results of two grand jury presentments -- one from Pittsburgh and one from Harrisburg -- that together total more than 90 pages.

    An intriguing footnote said the Harrisburg grand jury report focused only on bonuses for campaign work.

    "The expenditure of taxpayer funds for other types of bonuses is reserved for future consideration of the grand jury," the document states. Another footnote said "matters pertaining to potential obstruction or destruction of evidence remain part of the grand jury's ongoing investigation."

  2. #2
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    I agree. I'm sure this isn't an exclusive party thing and I bet it happens on all levels of government. When will people wake up and vote for change?
    First Amendment rights are like muscles, if you don't exercise them they will atrophy.

  3. #3
    Unregistered BuffalosFinest's Avatar
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    People are awake. They vote for change all the time. It just doesn't work.
    Why are the people always to blame?
    When two crooks run against eachother and you try to vote for the lesser of the two evils...Is it your fault for voting for one crook over the other? Or one invalid over the other?
    Then if you don't vote they'll tell you shouldn't complain


    The people try their best to vote for the best candidate.
    Perhaps they could serve Maxwell House at the voting booths to make sure people are awake when they vote.

  4. #4
    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffalosFinest
    People are awake. They vote for change all the time. It just doesn't work.
    Why are the people always to blame?
    When two crooks run against eachother and you try to vote for the lesser of the two evils...Is it your fault for voting for one crook over the other? Or one invalid over the other?
    Then if you don't vote they'll tell you shouldn't complain


    The people try their best to vote for the best candidate.
    Perhaps they could serve Maxwell House at the voting booths to make sure people are awake when they vote.
    Maybe we need recall and referendums,or maybe some people in hoods to kick some ass.

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    Member Save Us's Avatar
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    Sometimes we deserve the governemnt we get!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffalosFinest
    People are awake. They vote for change all the time. It just doesn't work.
    ...
    [sarcasm]that was evident yesterday when I went signature gathering. [/sarcasm]
    Phrases like "I don't want to be involved" "I'm not political" door after door.
    It works when people actually vote or get fresh faces on the ballot.
    First Amendment rights are like muscles, if you don't exercise them they will atrophy.

  7. #7
    Member CSense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffalosFinest
    People are awake. They vote for change all the time. It just doesn't work.
    Why are the people always to blame?
    When two crooks run against eachother and you try to vote for the lesser of the two evils...Is it your fault for voting for one crook over the other? Or one invalid over the other?
    Then if you don't vote they'll tell you shouldn't complain


    The people try their best to vote for the best candidate.
    Perhaps they could serve Maxwell House at the voting booths to make sure people are awake when they vote.
    It's how the party system is set up. For instance, if I wanted to run for office, I'd have to go around and retrieve a certain amount of signatures from affiliated party members so that I can be on the party's primary ballot. On the surface is not bad but when you add in that a person can only sign once, now you've created bad politics.

    Organization now becomes crucially important. You must have numerous helpers retrieving signatures before you opposition(s) blocks you out. Rather than an individual wanting to vie for political office it becomes a race for power and control, all the while giving the establishment an pre election advantage. This is why we constantly are voting for two evils.

    We need to change the rules so that anyone can seek the party's line within fair and equitable means.

  8. #8
    Member sneakers77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSense
    It's how the party system is set up. For instance, if I wanted to run for office, I'd have to go around and retrieve a certain amount of signatures from affiliated party members so that I can be on the party's primary ballot. On the surface is not bad but when you add in that a person can only sign once, now you've created bad politics.

    Organization now becomes crucially important. You must have numerous helpers retrieving signatures before you opposition(s) blocks you out. Rather than an individual wanting to vie for political office it becomes a race for power and control, all the while giving the establishment an pre election advantage. This is why we constantly are voting for two evils.

    We need to change the rules so that anyone can seek the party's line within fair and equitable means.
    If you were to run for public office you would need to collect signatures of only 5% of your districts affiliated voters. If you are a registered conservative and 1000 residents are registered as conservative you would need to canvass and secure 50 signatures. Not a real big deal. If someone really had some fire in their belly, they could do it themselves. But it always helps to have other individuals help you out. And it always helps to get a few more, because the board of elections can throw out an entire page if one signature or address is wrong. I know it sounds petty, but they have the legal right to do so.

    As for your argument, I think 5% is pretty much a fair and equitable means, wouldn't you agree?
    I never said I had no idea about most of the things you said I said I had no idea about.

  9. #9
    Member CSense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sneakers77
    because the board of elections can throw out an entire page if one signature or address is wrong. I know it sounds petty, but they have the legal right to do so.

    As for your argument, I think 5% is pretty much a fair and equitable means, wouldn't you agree?
    When people go door to door they say....

    "I'd like for you to sign my petiton so that I can get on the primary ballot"

    what they don't say is....

    "By signing my petition you are eliminating my competition becuase you can not sign for another candidte"

    I thought this was some what of a democracy. Why can't a person sign more than once? All it would do is allow someone to run in a primary. I don't get it, scratch that, I do get the reason, to keep people from running, and that's my point.

    It's not fair nor equitable if I'm running solo or with a few friends, with political groups having committee people out all on the same day, you can't possibly compete.

  10. #10
    Member sneakers77's Avatar
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    In my opinion, you can compete. If you can't secure 5% of the affiliated voters something isn't right.............between you, family, co-workers, and friends living in your district, I would find it hard to believe you couldn't secure 5% of the voters. Thats where the work comes in. You need to call all your people and tell them NOT to sign any petitions but yours..........
    I never said I had no idea about most of the things you said I said I had no idea about.

  11. #11
    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mesue
    [sarcasm]that was evident yesterday when I went signature gathering. [/sarcasm]
    Phrases like "I don't want to be involved" "I'm not political" door after door.
    It works when people actually vote or get fresh faces on the ballot.
    The last person who knocked on my door collecting signatures,I told him he had five seconds to get off my property or he would be collecting his teeth.I hate politicians,and I hate political want to be's more. No sarcasim here just pure boiling hate.

  12. #12
    Member CSense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sneakers77
    In my opinion, you can compete. If you can't secure 5% of the affiliated voters something isn't right.............between you, family, co-workers, and friends living in your district, I would find it hard to believe you couldn't secure 5% of the voters. Thats where the work comes in. You need to call all your people and tell them NOT to sign any petitions but yours..........
    I'm not talking about the "realities", clearly if I was going to run for office, I'll have all my **** in one sock, but I meant it as more of a reform movement.

    Why should I have to "work" beyond just going door to door? Now I have to call everyone days before the petitions, get people to take off work, etc, all bogus crap so I can hopefully beat out the heavily entrenched guy's army of volunteers. It's not supposed to be a game of "knocking" people off the ballot, it's supposed to be about having a "choice" of people on the ballot.

    My point is that they should change the rules to it makes it more democratic (the government philosophy, not the party). -that's for you Res

  13. #13
    Member CSense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cgoodsp466
    The last person who knocked on my door collecting signatures,I told him he had five seconds to get off my property or he would be collecting his teeth.I hate politicians,and I hate political want to be's more. No sarcasim here just pure boiling hate.
    Not trying to change you mind or anything but.....if you keep letting the guy next door get elected (doing nothing and knocking teeth out) you are going to have the same problems (lame ass politicians) you had yesterday

  14. #14
    Member sneakers77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cgoodsp466
    The last person who knocked on my door collecting signatures,I told him he had five seconds to get off my property or he would be collecting his teeth.I hate politicians,and I hate political want to be's more. No sarcasim here just pure boiling hate.
    So you are confirming that you are a closet fascist???????????
    I never said I had no idea about most of the things you said I said I had no idea about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cgoodsp466
    The last person who knocked on my door collecting signatures,I told him he had five seconds to get off my property or he would be collecting his teeth.I hate politicians,and I hate political want to be's more. No sarcasim here just pure boiling hate.
    That was you!
    Do you vote? You must be registered because someone actually went to your house. Why don't you change your affiliation to "B" I guarantee no one will knock on your door. So you know, it's not always the politician that is knocking on your door. Especially for the county jobs and higher. It could be averages citizen knocking on your door. At least they are working toward some sort of change instead of just spouting nonsense.
    First Amendment rights are like muscles, if you don't exercise them they will atrophy.

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