Taxing the Native Americans...

[keyboard150]

It disgusts me that this state will once again be trying to collect taxes illegally from the Native Americans...

How dare New York State try to steal from a sovereign nation to reduce a deficit created by greed and stupidity.

They have a lot of nerve to ask anybody for money when they haven't made a single attempt to cut a DAMNED substantial thing!

[Spirit of Ebenezer]

I have always had heavy heart with regards to the Native Americans plight. I have mixed feelings regarding the casino and tobacco issues. Still though, I'd prefer that the state not meddle too much in their affairs.

If anyone feels that Native Americans are getting away with too much, I strongly advise them to read the book: Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown. It is a moving book that shows the wrongs and lies perpetrated upon Native Americans for generations by the government.

[keyboard150]

I have always had heavy heart with regards to the Native Americans plight. I have mixed feelings regarding the casino and tobacco issues. Still though, I'd prefer that the state not meddle too much in their affairs.

If anyone feels that Native Americans are getting away with too much, I strongly advise them to read the book: Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown. It is a moving book that shows the wrongs and lies perpetrated upon Native Americans for generations by the government.

I don't even want to get into that part of the issue, Spirit. The point is that the state shouldn't be asking for money from anybody, especially people that have nothing to do with the problems of the state.

[justKel]

I don't even want to get into that part of the issue, Spirit. The point is that the state shouldn't be asking for money from anybody, especially people that have nothing to do with the problems of the state.

Oh, I couldn't agree with you more on this. Native Americans have been screwed beyond belief already as it is.

And BTW, I say let them have their Casinos and sell their tobacco. The fool and his money are easily parted... Good for them that they figured out a way to capitalize on the foolish white man who exploited them. No one's forcing anyone to go and waste, er, spend their money.

[keyboard150]

Oh, I couldn't agree with you more on this. Native Americans have been screwed beyond belief already as it is.

And BTW, I say let them have their Casinos and sell their tobacco. The fool and his money are easily parted... Good for them that they figured out a way to capitalize on the foolish white man who exploited them. No one's forcing anyone to go and waste, er, spend their money.

They won't be able to shut those down to begin with. They govern themselves, and the state has no jurisdiction. The sooner they get that, the happier everyone will be.

It's just pretty ballsy to go and impose a tax on someone else, basically punishing them for being successful, because you can't manage your money properly. If the state would have just legalized gambling in the first place, they could be building their own casinos and pulling in the same revenue that the Senecas are. BUT NO, they had to be pansies as usual and take the easy way out---"well, we want to get elected, so still no gambling, but I guess we'll let these people we like to screw with do it. Then we can speak out against it, make everything look really good, tax the crap out of them, this is good stuff, and the people will love us no matter how much we stick it to them!"

[dtwarren]

Your position would be correct if the State were seeking to tax Indians on Indian land. However, we are not, we are talking about taxing non-Indians on transactions that occur on Indian land. It is true that the Indian retailers will have to collect the taxes from non-Indian customers and remit these collections to the state, but the retailers are not being taxed, they are merely the conduit for the non-Indians to pay a tax that is lawfully levied and assessed upon them. The United States Supreme Court held in its 1980 decision, Washington State v. Confederated Tribes, "We do not believe that principles of federal Indian law, whether stated in terms of pre-emption, tribal self-government, or otherwise, authorize Indian tribes thus to market an exemption from state taxation to persons who would normally do their business elsewhere." Also a unanimous United States Supreme Court held in Department of Taxation & Fin. of N.Y. v Milhelm Attea & Bros., that the State may place minimal burdens on Indian retailers and tribes to collect taxes from non-Indians on Indian Land.

The tax burden on the People of the State of New York is too high and must be reduced. However, the selective enforcement of the New York Tax Laws to give relief to a few while raising the burden imposed on others is no answer to this problem. This is particularly so when this policy was not made by the people's representatives in our State Legislature, but by the executive branch of our government in contravention of the expressed policy of our State Legislature which requires the collection of the sales and compensating use taxes from non-Indians making purchases on Indian land and the Executive Branch's constitutional duty to enforce all laws and poses a constitutional crisis due to a violataion of the separation of powers doctrine our government was founded upon.

[keyboard150]

Your position would be correct if the State were seeking to tax Indians on Indian land. However, we are not, we are talking about taxing non-Indians on transactions that occur on Indian land. It is true that the Indian retailers will have to collect the taxes from non-Indian customers and remit these collections to the state, but the retailers are not being taxed, they are merely the conduit for the non-Indians to pay a tax that is lawfully levied and assessed upon them. The United States Supreme Court held in its 1980 decision, Washington State v. Confederated Tribes, "We do not believe that principles of federal Indian law, whether stated in terms of pre-emption, tribal self-government, or otherwise, authorize Indian tribes thus to market an exemption from state taxation to persons who would normally do their business elsewhere." Also a unanimous United States Supreme Court held in Department of Taxation & Fin. of N.Y. v Milhelm Attea & Bros., that the State may place minimal burdens on Indian retailers and tribes to collect taxes from non-Indians on Indian Land.

The tax burden on the People of the State of New York is too high and must be reduced. However, the selective enforcement of the New York Tax Laws to give relief to a few while raising the burden imposed on others is no answer to this problem. This is particularly so when this policy was not made by the people's representatives in our State Legislature, but by the executive branch of our government in contravention of the expressed policy of our State Legislature which requires the collection of the sales and compensating use taxes from non-Indians making purchases on Indian land and the Executive Branch's constitutional duty to enforce all laws and poses a constitutional crisis due to a violataion of the separation of powers doctrine our government was founded upon.

So next time I go to Europe and buy stuff, I should pay sales tax to NYS?

[Spirit of Ebenezer]

Indian retailers will have to collect the taxes from non-Indian customers and remit these collections to the state.

Dan, you are clearly implying that the Native Americans are abusing and breaking the law as well as being given too much leniency.

The selective enforcement of the New York Tax Laws to give relief to a few while raising the burden imposed on others is no answer to this problem.

I think you should offer your services to enforce and collect the taxes personally.

[DR_GONZO]

The vampire state just wants more blood to feed their insatiable appetite. This vampire state is losing population every day yet instead of fasting they want more. The cost of running a down trodden state should be less not more.

Side note, how serious is this state about their bloated budget by imposing more taxes on their own N.Y.S. cigarette sales knowing full well this tax base will be further eroded? No pun intended but this is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

[sharky]

So next time I go to Europe and buy stuff, I should pay sales tax to NYS?

the NY income tax form has a line for exactly that. The one for internet purchases also says something along the lines of "anything purchased outside of NY and brought into NY"

[keyboard150]

the NY income tax form has a line for exactly that. The one for internet purchases also says something along the lines of "anything purchased outside of NY and brought into NY"

Yeah, kiss my ass. Every other year I do not pay that tax. NY is pretty cocky if it thinks it can tax what I buy when I'm on vacation.

It seems to me this is a clear cut example of taxation without representation.


Really, how dare you tax me more when you have a multi billion dollar deficit and you haven't cut a DAMNED thing. IN FACT, you've increased spending. I can't believe more people aren't more angry about this.

In my opinion we should all be in Albany right now crucifying the politicians. This is total bullsh*t.

[gshowell]

The State can't force the Indians to collect taxes

Read this from an article in today's News

Senecas won’t collect tobacco tax
By Brian Meyer and Tom Precious NEWS STAFF REPORTERS
Updated: 04/03/08 6:33 AM

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregio...ry/314246.html

Buffalo attorney Joseph Crangle, who has represented the Seneca Nation in numerous legal disputes, noted a recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling that made it clear Indian retailers are “immune” from taxation.

“Immunity means you never had jurisdiction in the first place, and that’s a key thing,“ Crangle said.

[dtwarren]

Mr. Crangle likes to mis-state the law in this area to benefit the Senecas who is his bread and butter. I have sent the authors of that article an e-mail asking for the name of the case that he was referring to. The Attea decision has not been overruled or even limited by the United States Supreme Court. ( http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/93-377.ZO.html )

[dtwarren]

So next time I go to Europe and buy stuff, I should pay sales tax to NYS?

But when you go to the reservation you are never leaving the State of New York, much less the United States.

[keyboard150]

But when you go to the reservation you are never leaving the State of New York, much less the United States.

But it's a sovereign nation...with its own government and all...