Reply With QuoteThe town also has to buy additional ice from Leisure (Private rink in OP/WS) for town house league so the Wings Non-Resident Travel association can at the rink as well.
Yes, there is no ice available but let a private company build a rink. Why not have the non-residents that use our facility pick up the tab? The cost to refund everyone's deposit is probably a lot less than fixing the rink! East Aurora is having trouble opening and they are non-profit.Originally Posted by wsresident33
Ice rink is owned by the town, let's sell it to the Wings Travel program filled with kids from buffalo, lewiston, marilla, orchard park, etc. You folks have had the luxury of paying one of the lowest ice per hour rates in the area.
A new rink is not feasible neither is one pad ice rink. Did you know the town association couldn't operate without the town pouring money into it? The town actually pours money into the association to keep cost down.
These numbers probably have cost with the rising cost of energy every year.
In a July 12, 2004 board meeting, it was stated by the former Supervisor, that the costs of the ice rink for utilities and maintenance was between $300,000- $500,000 a year. He also stated in a Sept 20, 2004 board meeting that the town was helping to subsidize the costs for the towns youth hockey program to the tune of about $250,000.
Income
Sponsorship - The rink isn't sponsored by anyone, no ads on the boards = $0
ProShop and Concessions - $1k per month (Sept thru April) = $8000
Let's assume they sell every hour of ice, please note, ice at night is available.
Ice Time - Let's assume $185 since that is what the pepsi center charges, cheektowaga, etc
Weekends - 17 hours of possible ice sold (Saturday and Sunday) 17 * 2 = 34 hours of ice sold
Weekdays - 8 hours per day, 5 times a week =40 hours of ice sold
One Week = 67 hours * 185 = $13690 will be rounded to $14,000.00 for one-week period breakdown. The rink is opened roughly 28 weeks
Ice Time Income = $392,000.00
Proshop = 8000.00
Ice Time Income = $392,000.00
Total = $400,000.00
They do not sell every hour of ice and plus open skates are hour and half and do not always sell out. Now, if we the town sold the ice rink to the Wings for $1- they have to buy insurance, pay for the staff, etc. You will be the hole easily $200k every year or have advanced areans (arena management company) and let them take over the rink and the ice per hour will jump to $250 to $275 hour.
Good Luck, getting kids to play at WS at those rates.
Depew makes it work because - they are considered an outdoor rink, Depew gets State grant money for outdoor rink. Cheektowaga is opened year round. 1 pad rink will never work
The town also has to buy additional ice from Leisure (Private rink in OP/WS) for town house league so the Wings Non-Resident Travel association can at the rink as well.
I agree, let a private company build a rink. But we are talking about this year. Have you spoke with anyone from the Hockey Association? I have and I was told that there are more than 2/3 town residents in the program, which includes House and Travel and the house program is twice the size of the travel program. All non-residents do pay more than town residents, and the travel teams pay almost double the fees of the House program because...They are charged more for ice time. I won't be surprised if the cost of refunds and skipping the season reaches close to the amount of the repair. Because of the lack of communication in this town, we may never know.
The town is "subsidizing" the House program which is composed of a majority of town residents. I have not seen anywhere that the town is writing a check to the hockey association. And, I haven't seen any disbursement from the town to the private rinks either. The hockey assocation obtains that ice the same way they do from the town...they buy it at the rate that is given to them. If the town isn't charging enough for ice, then they should raise the rates and charge everyone more. Then people will have a choice if the price is too high for them to skate in West Seneca. Your utility range is so high, it is impossible to determine a true cost for the rink facility.
Maybe the TOWN, the owner of the ice rink, should sell advertising, naming rights, raise the concession / pro shop rates, the cost of public skate, use the rink in the summer for roller hockey, and raise ice rates. It isn't the responsibility of the hockey association or any other user of that rink to clean and maintain it. Maybe the town should take care of the building that they own so that it doesn't come down to 1000 children getting shafted by the town's mismanagement of their property.
The town needs help in this regard in setting prices, and policy to make it cost neutral, or else the WS Hockey Association will not have a rink to call its own. The handwriting was on the wall years ago, and the Hockey Association ignored it.
.....could you elaborate upon this point ?
A remark should only hurt within it's proportion of what is true.
It was to no one's advantage, least of all the Hockey Association that the town should have to sholder a quarter of a million dollar subsidy in 2004. The amount of subsidy must be much more now because of rising energy costs.In a July 12, 2004 board meeting, it was stated by the former Supervisor, that the costs of the ice rink for utilities and maintenance was between $300,000- $500,000 a year. He also stated in a Sept 20, 2004 board meeting that the town was helping to subsidize the costs for the towns youth hockey program to the tune of about $250,000.
As the poster suggests, it is impossible to digest the true cost of the subsidy because of they way the books are cooked. If there are a 1000 kids, and the subsidy is say $500,000 now, that is $500 dollars a child.
Now that a red flag has been waved, the hockey advocating poster is giving a list of things which could be done to help the problem, but where were the suggestions four or more years ago? He is saying the town is at fault for not mantaining their building. The town is at fault for not doing xyz, while at the same time providing their subsidy. The Hockey Association should have been more concerned about the viability of the ice rink and suggesting a partnering because it impacts them the most. It is hard to have an association without a club house. All his suggestions have merit, but it is not likely that the town was/is going to do any of it without that partnering. Imagine the outcry if the town board had suggested raising rates. Imagine the town board on its own outreaching for sponsors. Imagine the town board raising concession rates. Mean time the clock was ticking.
You are very wrong about the hockey assocation not attempting to partner with the town. They have approached the town, via the recreation director, several times in the past years. They have had councilmen speak at their Board meetings, they have asked for improvements and a new rink time and time again. Graber is very wrong about the hockey association not trying to work with the town. The town board has raised the ice rates every year. I seriously question the subsidy amount that is being suggested. I would really like to see any proof of that.
But since the town can't tell you what the rink costs, or what they make or lose on it, I guess we will never know. And furthermore, the hockey association isn't responsible for running the ice rink. They buy ice from the town, the town is responsible for running the ice rink. It may not be right, it may not be fair, but for now, that's the way it is.
I am pro hockey, but I'm more pro kids and the town committed to the kids for the upcoming season when they took everyone's deposit money. Graber admitted he knew there were problems as early as January. Maybe they shouldn't have taken everyone's money if he was going to ignore the problems.
I believe the Town was required to conduct competitive bidding on the mold remediation at the Ice Rink. The Supervisor and Town Attorney maintained that competitive bidding was not required because it fell under the emergency exception to the competitive bidding statutes. However, I do not believe it does. There were statements by Town Board members and the public that there have been longstanding maintenance issues at the Ice Rink. That the Ice Rink's ventilation system was known to be inadequate and that this rink was once an outside rink and it was enclosed to make it an indoor rink. There were also issues raised regarding the refrigeration system. Based on this I am not of the opinion that the discovery of surface mold was unforseen, its discovery may have been a surprise but that does not transform it into an emergency.
It also fails the second test of the emergency exception. Since the rink was closed and the health and safety of the public was secured it can be remedied by the exercise of reasonable care.
Under the competitive bidding statute, the emergency must be one "arising out of an accident or other unforeseen occurrence or condition". An emergency has been defined as " '[an] unforeseen combination of circumstances which calls for immediate action' " (Lutzken v City of Rochester, 7 A.D.2d 498, 500), and as "an unforeseen combination of circumstances or the resulting state that calls for immediate action" (Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary). "An occurrence or condition is unforeseen when it is not anticipated; when it creates a situation which cannot be remedied by the exercise of reasonable care (Ralph Perry, Inc. v. Metropolitan Cas. Ins. Co., 2 A.D.2d 700, affd. 4 N.Y.2d 983; Daiches v. United States Fid. & Guar. Co., 93 F. 2d 149; when it is fortuitous, Viterbo v Friedlander, 120 U.S. 707, 728)." (Rodin v Director of Purch. of Town of Hempstead, 38 Misc. 2d 362, 365.)
“We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson
Back in 2004, I recall that the Hockey Association had done a feasibility study to determine the cost of a double pad facility. I think it was determined that the rink needed major repairs and a second pad was needed, but the current location was not big enough for a second pad. Someone else can probably elaborate with the details...
Maybe it is time to look into some creative ways to get more ice surface in WNY? Hamburg and East Aurora folks want more ice. Is there any possibility of all three towns working together for a large community ice arena? Perhaps County involvement would be possible? Has anyone spoken with Sam Savarino lately? His "mega-rink" was not a bad idea in the right location. He said in a public meeting that the Seneca Mall site was large enough. I guess the problem is, and has been, that there is no politician who has been willing to take this bull by the horns. I can understand the frustration with delaying the repairs, but it does seem like the time has more than come to take a hard look at the big picture for the ice rink.
Clean up the mold and than next year if the rink makes it through the season, than what? Doesn't the mold clean up cost seem to be a waste of money if the rink needs to be repaired and we the taxpayers don't want to pay 2 million to fix it.Hi Everyone~
We are aware that everyone has many questions as to the status of the clean up of the West Seneca Rink. The Hockey Association has been in conversation with the Town Board, but as you know, the issue of the clean up must be voted on this coming Monday, August 4. The Town Board will be holding a working session followed by an emergency Board meeting where they will vote on if they will continue with the repair. Nothing is certain at this time.
Many of you have contacted Board members asking what you can do to help.
First, we need every possible person that we can get to attend the Town Board activities on Monday. We will be meeting in the parking lot of Town Hall at 5:30pm. PLEASE attend with your players, friends, neighbors, grandparents and anyone else you can think of that supports the activities at the rink. Wear jerseys and your West Seneca Hockey clothing. Bring signs showing your support. The more people that are there, the more the Town will realize the importance of this clean up. THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. We are looking for the support of ALL families involved in the hockey program.
Second, take a moment to write the town council people about why the rink cleanup should be completed. Tell them why hockey is important to you, and why this clean up should be completed. We need them to realize the importance of the rink to everyone. Here are the email addresses, which can also be found on the Town’s website:
Town of West Seneca Council Board Members
Wallace C. Piotrowski: wpiotrowski@twsny.org
Vincent J. Graber, Jr.: vgraberjr@verizon.net
Christina Wleklinski Bove: christina_bove@yahoo.com
Sheila M. Meegan: smeegan@twsny.org
Dale F. Clarke: daleclarke@roadrunner.com
If you wish to phone the council board members, you can find their numbers on the website, but we are asking that you email. PLEASE keep in mind that your email may be presented at either the working session or at the Board meeting. We do not need you to threaten the council people, but to focus more on the importance of having the rink open on time and the importance of the rink to you and your family. Keep in mind that we need these people on our side.
Please forward this email to everyone you can!
See you on Monday!
Dick Lynch, President
West Seneca Youth Hockey
Put that on the ballot - close the rink or pay 2 million plus to fix it. Guess what, that means raise taxes because where else are they going to get 2 million plus from?
Well, we could sell the Birchfield park and facilities and shut down the Senior Center to start. How's that sound?
Why don't you say how many non residents you have on your AAA 98 wings team? Head Coach is 1, I bet more than 50% are non-residents. Majority of the coaches for WS AAA are non-residents. Let Orchard Park build a rink for Wings, half of their residents play in WS
Why can Amherst AAA compete nationally and they have only 4 nonresidents.
"Supervisor put together a group to look into a new rink/ refurbished rink"
Reading the West Seneca Hockey Association's board meeting minutes from August 2008.
Whose in this group? Whose going to pay for the new or refurbished rink?
What happened to the poll. The poll was a WS topic, and should not have been moved.
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