West Seneca: Youth Hockey & Rink

[Sock Puppet]

I could be mistaken, but I believe the leagues with the strictest residency policy are the three city leagues (Bakewell, Caz, and N. Buffalo).

[wnyfuture]

Amherst & Cheektowaga are the only two programs with residency

Point of this - Why are we forcing taxpayers and their kids to play somewhere else when non-taxpayers are put in their place. To me, it does not make sense. Taxpayers first!

[Sock Puppet]

Amherst & Cheektowaga are the only two programs with residency

Point of this - Why are we forcing taxpayers and their kids to play somewhere else when non-taxpayers are put in their place. To me, it does not make sense. Taxpayers first!

Agreed.

[wnyfuture]

Does the town board not care about tax payers? Even if it's just a little things like sports, we should be taken care of.

[Spirit of Ebenezer]

Even if it's just a little things like sports, we should be taken care of.

......Upon further review......You're right, I'm wrong......Ouch!!!!!!

[wnyfuture]

The ice is used by Town of West Seneca House & Travel Program, Buffalo Jr Sabres, High School teams, open skate, and than filled in by others.

The WS proposed budget for 2008 contains the following, regarding the Ice Rink.
P/T Laborers- $16,000.00
Instructor Fee- $8,000.00
Recreation Equipment- $5,000.00

The next line in the budget proposal is titled:
"Building and Grounds- Recreation Center" which may encompass the Ice Rink or not. The entries are:
Other Expenses- 0
Telephone- 1400.00
Gas- 28,000.00
Water- 3000.00
Repair and Maintenance- 20,000.00
Contract Repairs- 8000.00

Income
Sponsorship - The rink isn't sponsored by anyone, no ads on the boards = $0
ProShop and Concessions - $1k per month (Sept thru April) = $8000

Let's assume they sell every hour of ice, please note, ice at night is available.
Ice Time - I have no idea the cost per hour, I would assume $185 since that is what the pepsi center charges, cheektowaga, etc. =
Weekends - 16 hours of possible ice sold (Saturday and Sunday) 16 * 2 = 32 hours of ice sold
Weekdays - 7 hours per day, 5 times a week =35 hours of ice sold
One Week = 67 hours * 185 = $12395 will be rounded to $13,000.00 for one-week period breakdown. The rink is opened roughly 28 weeks
Ice Time Income = $364,000.00

Proshop = 8000.00
Ice Time Income = $364,000.00
Total = $372,000.00

Few things, the town is in charge of house program, the fee includes referee cost, jerseys, insurance. The town also purchases ice from Leisure rinks because of the high demand and the little supply.

The ice time income does not factor in the open skate schedule, which could bring in a lot more than $185 or a lot less. Saturday or Sunday afternoon are not that well attended.

Just a little to think about.

Something is missing, there is no way the town makes over 280k profit on the ice rink!
Why no naming rights for the rink?

Why are we not charging more for ice for non-residents to subsidize the cost for residents?

[Spirit of Ebenezer]

Your initial argument, which I did not understand at first, I realized was a legitimate point, which was residents first when it comes to town run youth sports programs in town facilities, like the ice rink. I recently learned that the town last year instituted a resident only policy at the town pool. I agree with the notion that town residents shouldn't be pushed aside for non-residents.

But your posting about ice rink and profit potential and such is way off the mark. Especially the way you are spinning it. The ice rink, like the town pool, is basically a service offered by the town, much like street plowing and garbage pick up. There is no profiting. Now if you stated, it could be run more efficiently, that would be a valid point. But profiting ? Who said the town was profiting with the ice rink ?

Something is missing, there is no way the town makes over 280k profit on the ice rink!

[wnyfuture]

Your initial argument, which I did not understand at first, I realized was a legitimate point, which was residents first when it comes to town run youth sports programs in town facilities, like the ice rink. I recently learned that the town last year instituted a resident only policy at the town pool. I agree with the notion that town residents shouldn't be pushed aside for non-residents.

But your posting about ice rink and profit potential and such is way off the mark. Especially the way you are spinning it. The ice rink, like the town pool, is basically a service offered by the town, much like street plowing and garbage pick up. There is no profiting. Now if you stated, it could be run more efficiently, that would be a valid point. But profiting ? Who said the town was profiting with the ice rink ?

I don't think they are profiting and probably not. The budget, I believe is missing a lot of figures. No indoor ice rink could operate on those figures, I believe a lot of hidden costs. I believe it could be run more efficiently.

Yes, I'm all over the place on this topic but a lot of this frustrates me to no end.

I don't have a problem with non-residents using our tax paying facilities but I have a problem with "town residents shouldn't be pushed aside for non-residents". For example, if our high schools were open to everyone in Erie & Niagara County, they took the brightest kids from those counties and put them at West and East thus leaving no room for tax paying residents at East or West, average and below average students would be forced to attend a city school or below average high school because of the non-residents excelling at school pushing aside a average town resident. Is that fair? To me, it's not.

Why can't we mimic Amherst's policy regarding their ice rink and youth program?

[wnyfuture]

Just been told the rink may not open next for 2009-10 season because of the amount work needed. The Rink Refrigeration is old and needs to be fixed.

Would the town replace the Rink Refrigeration and would you support that?

[WSWings98]

West Seneca travel hockey is a very competitive and very respected youth hockey program. With residency restrictions in place, WS would not be able to produce a team that could compete with the current list of AAA clubs in the EWAHL which they are part of. They compete against teams from Hershey, Pittsburgh, Rochester, Syracuse, Cleveland, as well as the Buffalo Regals and frequently compete in tournaments in Canada.

You likely could not pull 12 kids out of West Seneca in any given birth year good enough to play against any of these teams.

These teams are self funded and run with budgets of $15,000 to $25,000 per year. All costs are picked up by the families of the players on each team as well as sponsors.

If a residency restriction was put in place, West Seneca would have to leave he EWAHL and join the WNYAHL where they would likely downgrade to a AA status.

If the WS rink were to close permanently, the WS teams could continue to operate under the allotted budgets at any number of local rinks.

These teams are not designed to be feeder teams for JV or Varsity teams. In fact, any player serious about a future in hockey understands that High School hockey is a distraction. Split midget seasons are the result of trying to play both AAA and high school hockey. This is what causes our local teams to struggle against full season teams that strictly prohibit playing high school hockey while on those teams.

For the elite talented few, WNY doesn't even offer viable options to play at a level needed for scouting by Division 1 schools. It will not happen playing high school hockey. Many players need to leave the area to play for teams like Little Caesars, Honeybaked, Compuware, Detroit Belle Tire, and prep schools

[Psycho1]

The WS Bee reported that the issue in the rink is mold. Couple that with an old refrigeration unit, and it equals ca$h. The Town is unable to sustain additional expenses, this is the time that private investment is needed. With an aging demographic, private money is the only viable solution to address this issue. There will need to be incentives offered in order to attract an investor(s), however, smaller tax revenue is better than no tax revenue.

It will be interesting to see how the Town proceeds on this one.

[OldTymeRevival]

The WS Bee reported that the issue in the rink is mold. Couple that with an old refrigeration unit, and it equals ca$h. The Town is unable to sustain additional expenses, this is the time that private investment is needed. With an aging demographic, private money is the only viable solution to address this issue. There will need to be incentives offered in order to attract an investor(s), however, smaller tax revenue is better than no tax revenue.

It will be interesting to see how the Town proceeds on this one.

++++

May I suggest that the Supervisor and Town Board wrestle the BNAC Private Account Checkbook away from Americorps hands and use it to pay these expenses! I'm sure the Burchfield Board members won't be any the wiser!!!

LOL

It's really no joke what goes on there, but you have to admit it's funny!

[Spirit of Ebenezer]

There will need to be incentives offered in order to attract an investor(s), however, smaller tax revenue is better than no tax revenue.

Remember the ice rink venture that was planned on Clinton St about 4 yrs. ago. The former Supervisor had stated then that the towns ice rink was deteriorating and long been a money pit. He had a private builder in place ready to build a new facility. Not sure if this was to be a private owned facility or public or how the project would have been funded, but it ended up getting beaten down primarily by a group of concerned tree huggers from Gardenville loyal to the newly elected council member of 2005.

It was probably the best chance the town had at getting a new facility.

[Psycho1]

Remember the ice rink venture that was planned on Clinton St about 4 yrs. ago.

If memory serves me, the investors in that plan all had close ties to the former Supervisor, which may have been another part of the problem.

Wasn't there also mentioned a rink for the WS Mall site? That would be the optimum place, given the proximity to the thruway, and soon to be two hotels. It could, possibly, jump start other development along Ridge Rd., as well as in the plaza with K-Mart and Tops.

[Pumpkinhead]

If memory serves me, the investors in that plan all had close ties to the former Supervisor, which may have been another part of the problem.

Wasn't there also mentioned a rink for the WS Mall site? That would be the optimum place, given the proximity to the thruway, and soon to be two hotels. It could, possibly, jump start other development along Ridge Rd., as well as in the plaza with K-Mart and Tops.

It was the TAXPAYERS who fought that project because the developers aka the Town Attorney Tim Greenan wanted the West Seneca TAXPAYERS to float a FORTY MILLION DOLLAR BOND on the project thus leaving the TAXPAYERS to bear the financial risk while the "developers" walked away with the profits. DUH. That was a really great idea!!!! That's why Lancaster turned it down, ECC and the City of Buffalo turned it down, but Spirit of Ebenezer thinks it would have been a great idea!!! Maybe he knows something we don't??!! Or maybe he has close ties to .......... hmmmm?????? Or maybe he was promised a job there?????

The last time we heard from them, the developers said the project would fit on the Seneca Mall site ------ as long as the Town TAXPAYERS would pay for it, they'd be happy to build it there!!!