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Thread: Control board approves first pact since lifting wage freeze

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    Member steven's Avatar
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    Control board approves first pact since lifting wage freeze

    Buffalo's control board today approved a contract with school crossing guards, a pact that will provide retroactive raises in return for workers paying more of their health insurance premiums.

    The three-year agreement is the first city contract ratified by a union to be approved by the control board since the panel lifted a wage freeze last year.

    Mayor Byron W. Brown pushed for approval today, insisting the city can afford the $1 million in added costs over three years.

    But three of the control board's nine members voted against the contract. While they agree the city and its school district face improving finances in the short-term, they said they're alarmed by escalating long-term costs the entities face for retiree benefits.

    Chairman Paul Kolkmeyer said he's concerned that approving a contract which continues to provide heavily subsidized health insurance benefits for crossing guards, even after they retire, could set a precedent in negotiations with other unions.

    Buffalo's 156 crossing guards will receive a 23 percent raise, a move that will put their salaries in compliance with Buffalo's living wage law. They currently make $8.25 an hour, and the new contract would raise their pay to $10 an hour retroactive to last July. Their salaries would increase to $10.15 by mid-2009.

    For complete details, see Tuesday's Buffalo News.
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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    Member Bannister's Avatar
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    I wonder if the contract was changed since the first time they voted it down, or if control board members just changed their minds. Why did they approve it now, but deny it before?
    1 Corinthians 13:1 "If I speak in the languages of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal."

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    I think they read it this time

    the first time they just said no without reading it. Or so it would seem. It is a bad deal for the workers in my estimation. They are paying 10% annually, which would amount to between 900 and 1200 for their health care. That for a 2 dollar an hr raise, for a 20 hr work week. So a $40 dollar a week raise, over roughly 40 weeks = 1600. So they are netting between 400 and 700 for a yr. AT TODAYS RATES. That raise will be eliminated in a very short time. I would have recommended they held out, sued for the City to pay the living wage, and kept the health care as it was. That raise isn't life altering money. I'm still wondering why it wasn't approved last meeting.. Someone offers you a good deal, take it. What their Union agreed to was a good deal for the City, the CB was stupid not to jump on it, luckily someone, maybe it was Collins, saw what it was and it was approved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhunter
    the first time they just said no without reading it. Or so it would seem. It is a bad deal for the workers in my estimation. They are paying 10% annually, which would amount to between 900 and 1200 for their health care. That for a 2 dollar an hr raise, for a 20 hr work week. So a $40 dollar a week raise, over roughly 40 weeks = 1600. So they are netting between 400 and 700 for a yr. AT TODAYS RATES. That raise will be eliminated in a very short time. I would have recommended they held out, sued for the City to pay the living wage, and kept the health care as it was. That raise isn't life altering money. I'm still wondering why it wasn't approved last meeting.. Someone offers you a good deal, take it. What their Union agreed to was a good deal for the City, the CB was stupid not to jump on it, luckily someone, maybe it was Collins, saw what it was and it was approved.
    This is why I find your thinking comical.....

    Maybe if the city of Buffalo DID NOT PAY CROSSING GUARDS AT ALL, let alone offer them above minimum wage PLUSE INSURANCE, there would be money to pay for people who are NEEDED like cops.

    Take some of the nice folks who are on welfare and who need some extra money and offer these jobs on top of the handouts they get. Instead, these are "perk" positions to the connected.

    I have said all along that you should be paid IF the city has the money. We were disagree is on IF the city has the money.

    The city has countless positions like this that is PURE WASTE! Maybe you should wake up and say WTF is the city paying for crossing guards when they can not even "honor the police contract" as you love to chant.

    It is your blind union loyality to the SYSTEM and not just your police union that is simply amazing.

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    Member Bannister's Avatar
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    I truly don't think it would be possible to find that many volunteers to be crossing guards. We have way too many intersections, way too many walkers, and way too many crazy drivers in the city of Buffalo.
    1 Corinthians 13:1 "If I speak in the languages of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS
    Instead, these are "perk" positions to the connected.
    The city has countless positions like this that is PURE WASTE! Maybe you should wake up and say WTF is the city paying for crossing guards when they can not even "honor the police contract" as you love to chant.
    Deerhunter knows the drill. These positions are exactly like you posted Lefty, perk positions for the connected. They are predominately wives of those playing the political grunt work game. You get a minimum 4 hrs pay for 2 hrs work. You get holiday pay and benefits. You also get to claim unemployment during the summer off. It counts toward nys pension, even though it's technically a part-time job.

    This is defiantly not about doing what's right for the city.

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    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bannister
    I truly don't think it would be possible to find that many volunteers to be crossing guards. We have way too many intersections, way too many walkers, and way too many crazy drivers in the city of Buffalo.
    Who says they have to be volunteers?

    I know plenty of seniors in Buffalo that would not mind doing something like this for $8-$10 an hour and have no need for health insurance.

    I mean seriously, how hard is it to be a crossing guard?

    My point was having these people have health insurance and pay them a living wage on that job that should not be considered something to live off is the problem with Buffalo.

    If they were to cut the crap like this, they would have the money to pay the cops what they have in the contract. The money is there, it is just being pissed away is my point.

    I would respect a union member saying that the city needs to cut spending on crap so they can pay for what is needed. But instead, they cheer other people to "get theirs" and piss and moan that they did not get theirs.

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    Member Bannister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS
    I know plenty of seniors in Buffalo that would not mind doing something like this for $8-$10 an hour and have no need for health insurance.
    .
    That's funny, it seems like most of the crossing guards I pass on a day to day basis are senior citizens. I don't know if they took the job for the insurance or not.
    1 Corinthians 13:1 "If I speak in the languages of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal."

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    I don't know any of them

    I don't know a single crossing guard. I knew a bit about their contract. Lefty, if it is so bad, don't you think the CB would have voted it down again ? I would have stayed with what they had. They made a health care concession that is going to hurt them financially in the long run. And as far as what you wish, again , it isn't reality. Facts are there are crossing guards in the City, and they get a check and health care benefits. I didn't know they had retirements, but if so , then they have that too. I think you put too much into this board, as though it is a policy setting tool. Sorry bud, it is 25 people that post their opinions on different matters. You seem to think it is a policy setting board. Very few people I know, other than the Cops on here, even know about it. It is people sharing their opinions, that is all. Relax, tool !!!

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    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhunter
    I don't know a single crossing guard. I knew a bit about their contract. Lefty, if it is so bad, don't you think the CB would have voted it down again ? I would have stayed with what they had. They made a health care concession that is going to hurt them financially in the long run. And as far as what you wish, again , it isn't reality. Facts are there are crossing guards in the City, and they get a check and health care benefits. I didn't know they had retirements, but if so , then they have that too. I think you put too much into this board, as though it is a policy setting tool. Sorry bud, it is 25 people that post their opinions on different matters. You seem to think it is a policy setting board. Very few people I know, other than the Cops on here, even know about it. It is people sharing their opinions, that is all. Relax, tool !!!
    Sure thing guy. You come on here any bitch like a teen girl who lost her virginity to the popular jock but is now getting ignored and I am the tool.

    Never said I did not spend a lot of time on here but this MB and others are my coffee break. I work from home, which at times gets very boring. SU is my office banter. But at least my paychecks are right.

    Oh and you are correct that there are few posters here but if you are dumb enough to think out of the 2218 profiles none are public officials...well what that would not shock me.

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    Dude

    I didn't realize I was getting ignored. Have a higher esteem level, you matter. And if there are any public policy makers on this board, they don't vote as many on this board would like. Even the CB is giving us our contracted money. You will be pissed off more when you hear about the Troop contract. But it isn't finalized , so we'll leave that alone. But really, the last politico that was on here was the West Seneca girl who lost to Wroblewski, name escapes me. JO abandoned ship. Spitzer won , as did Brown, looking back many of the popular candidates on this board aren't successful. So I would really have to question how effective your efforts are to sway public opinion.

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    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhunter
    I didn't realize I was getting ignored. Have a higher esteem level, you matter. And if there are any public policy makers on this board, they don't vote as many on this board would like. Even the CB is giving us our contracted money. You will be pissed off more when you hear about the Troop contract. But it isn't finalized , so we'll leave that alone. But really, the last politico that was on here was the West Seneca girl who lost to Wroblewski, name escapes me. JO abandoned ship. Spitzer won , as did Brown, looking back many of the popular candidates on this board aren't successful. So I would really have to question how effective your efforts are to sway public opinion.

    First off I am not here to sway anyone. I just like debate. Unlike you, I like to discuss various things. You on the other hand will take any thread and find a way to throw in the CB not honoring your contract line. I have tried countless times to have a reasonable debate with you but you are just narrow minded on the only issue you really discuss.

    Secondly, I never said I was ignoring you. I like our debates. I was just comparing you to a little girl who is upset after being used and not getting the attention they want from the person who used them. You bitch about the same thing over and over again like the teen girl who was used and then thrown away. It was an analogy guy. You do know what those are..don't you?

    In terms of who is "on" here, my point still stands. There are people who read but never post. Just under 1000 profiles. Gee I wonder who they are? I am not talking about people like JO who simply like to hear themselves talk.

    Lastly, I have said countless times that I have no problem with the amount in the contract for cops. I have also said it could and should be higher. My whole point is other things need to be trimmed for it to be right, IMO. I pointed out an example being crossing guards. The city should not wasted money on these jobs when it can not pay the cops in full is my opinion. Yours is that they should "get theirs" and you should "get yours" and f*ck the city/taxpayers paying the bill. Am I off?

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    maybe thats where we disagree

    I believe the City residents are getting their moneys worth as far as City taxes. The City has to support a large PD, Fire Dept as well. Garbage/Streets and even Crossing Guards. I believe they are all essential. And I know there have been large personnel cuts in Police/Fire/Streets and Sanitation. I don't know how many Crossing Guards there were 10 yrs ago, but I'm guessing their numbers are down too. I would like to see proportional cuts in Administrative appointees, ie, Deputy Mayor positions. Does the PD need to pay 85k for a spokesperson ? That isn't a Union job. The City spent over 250k to recruit and administer a Police test that drew 2700 applicants. Talk about a waste of money. Where is our Control Board ? I thought the CB did the Crossing Guards a favor voting down that deal, then they revisited it and approved it. Now, if the City can get long term, concession filled contracts with the other Unions, all the CB has to do is reimpose the wage freeze, and get all the concessions while the workers, the people out there doing the jobs, get nothing in return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhunter
    I believe the City residents are getting their moneys worth as far as City taxes. The City has to support a large PD, Fire Dept as well. Garbage/Streets and even Crossing Guards. I believe they are all essential. And I know there have been large personnel cuts in Police/Fire/Streets and Sanitation. I don't know how many Crossing Guards there were 10 yrs ago, but I'm guessing their numbers are down too. I would like to see proportional cuts in Administrative appointees, ie, Deputy Mayor positions. Does the PD need to pay 85k for a spokesperson ? That isn't a Union job. The City spent over 250k to recruit and administer a Police test that drew 2700 applicants. Talk about a waste of money. Where is our Control Board ? I thought the CB did the Crossing Guards a favor voting down that deal, then they revisited it and approved it. Now, if the City can get long term, concession filled contracts with the other Unions, all the CB has to do is reimpose the wage freeze, and get all the concessions while the workers, the people out there doing the jobs, get nothing in return.
    First off you should look at city property owners and not just residents. Every healthy city has property owners who either do not live in the area or own multiple properties. Decisions should be made for property owners who pay taxes and not just residents.

    I see value in police and fire but do not in crossing guards and some aspects of Garbage/Streets. I think there is waste in all departments and that needs to be fixed.

    Take for example crossing guards. The city will provide health insurance for 156 part time workers. That is a full time cost. The new contract provides for the crossing guards to pay $240-$900 a year for health care. The challenge is health care costs are around $1k a month or $12k a year. A drop in the bucket so to speak. This is waste.

    Now the schools also need security and pays out for this service. The security employees are different employees then crossing guards. Correct me if I am wrong but security is provided by Buffalo Police. This takes resources away from the streets of Buffalo and causes OT in some cases. No?

    What if they were to create a new full time position for the schools. This position went with the school year and hours were 7am-4pm, with summers off. The position would be to attract retired police officers, first from the city, and then from other areas. This would eliminate the cost of health insurance because retired police officers already have a great plan paid for. It would also reduce the burden on the police departments as more then capable retired police officers would be at the school full time during the day and keep active officers on the street where they are needed. Breaks could be provided as there are 63 schools which alots for around 2.5 people per school.

    Another option would be to offer active police officers in the city the ability to work part time, 1-2 days a week, at the school for $25 an hour to perform the crossing guard/security duties. The city would once again save in health care as officers already have it, reduce the burden of OT and patrol efforts of on-duty officers and provide for a safer school system as well.

    In both cases, paying police officers who are part time on their day off or retired $25 an hour would save the city money and provide a better product for the schools and kids. This is the kind of solutions I am speaking about.

    I also agree 100% on the waste of $250k for a test and will trust you that an $85k spokesperson position is not needed. But these are small items. Does not mean they should not be eliminated but are a small part of the problem. Where I see a problem with points from you and mouse is you always want to deflect blame on everything but your house. Fixes are needed all around.

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    Member steven's Avatar
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    I would really be interested in knowing how many citys/towns etc pay there crossing gaurds 10.15 an hour and offer them health insurance and retirement.
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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