Timeline for completion of Lancaster Walden Avenue police facility questioned; again

[Lee Chowaniec]

After attending the Lancaster Town Board meeting and re-listening to the recording of the session, the following should have been noted and/or asked:

• Council Member Aquino stated: “The town bonded for $8 million and are committed to renovating the Walden Avenue warehouse facility.”

When that bonding took place we were told it would pay for the renovation of somewhere between 40,000 – 45,000 square feet of the 76,000 square foot warehouse facility. When the building was purchased in 2003 for $1.6 million we were told by Supervisor Giza that the renovation costs for the entire building would be somewhere around $3 million. Many of us knew better. Many of us backed former Council Member Amatura’s proposal to build a new state of the art 30,000 to 35,000 square foot facility on Pavement Road and the cost was estimated at $8 million at that time. His proposal was supported by a town justice and several other town officials.

• When this recent $8 million was bonded the town knew full well that there was no grant money available. So why should we not suspect that the town will not be able to renovate what they committed for and that $8 million is going to buy us less again.

• Mr. Nosbisch spoke on the age and condition of the NIKE base police facility. It was constructed in 1967 according to Nosbitch. The Walden Avenue building is over 55 years of age, was a warehouse and never intended to be a police facility.

• Mr. Fronczak was told that the architectural firm was being paid a percentage based on project cost. Mr. Fronczak should have asked what that percentage is. Considering I am hearing over $200,000, I would assume it has to be near 3%. The design firm has the time, but does the town have the money?

Near eight years and counting since the Walden Avenue building was purchased and we keep delaying renovation for one reason or another. The police deserve better! The town taxpayers deserve better!

[WNYRealist]

I am hearing over $200,000, I would assume it has to be near 3%. The design firm has the time, but does the town have the money?

Near eight years and counting since the Walden Avenue building was purchased and we keep delaying renovation for one reason or another. The police deserve better! The town taxpayers deserve better!

Lee I think you know my position on this so I won't bore you with repeating myself I don't think with the current economic climate in our Town we should be looking to spend millions of dollars on any project. As a taxpayer I think if anything the Town should be investing in infrastructure. In a time where we are discussing cutting funding for vital groups like LVAC and looking to cut corners in other areas would it be wise to spend millions of dollars we don't have?

Perhaps in the past funding streams were available to accomplish this specific project. Perhaps this facility should have been a part of the police merger. That was then, this is now.

Opinions vary on this topic and you know my opinion. Bottom line we have a facility that is functional. It may not be pretty and it may not be ideal but it serves the purpose. The town does not need to house prisoners and it already uses a pistol range at the old village police station. They have modern radio capability in a recently renovated dispatch center. They have office space and a booking area. They have a newer and quite large storage building for vehicles and equipment.

Maybe instead of a headquarters maybe they could get away with a basic substation. I understand their current building is from the late '50's era. So are many houses, businesses, and other governenmental departments. Does this mean we all need "new"? I don't pretend to have all the answers but I do know we need to control costs and spend wisely.

Has anyone had the opportunity to look at our neighboring police stations like Depew, Clarence, Elma? Maybe this will shed some light on needs versus wants.

Just food for thought

[shortstuff]

After attending the Lancaster Town Board meeting and re-listening to the recording of the session, the following should have been noted and/or asked:

• Council Member Aquino stated: “The town bonded for $8 million and are committed to renovating the Walden Avenue warehouse facility.”

When that bonding took place we were told it would pay for the renovation of somewhere between 40,000 – 45,000 square feet of the 76,000 square foot warehouse facility. When the building was purchased in 2003 for $1.6 million we were told by Supervisor Giza that the renovation costs for the entire building would be somewhere around $3 million. Many of us knew better. Many of us backed former Council Member Amatura’s proposal to build a new state of the art 30,000 to 35,000 square foot facility on Pavement Road and the cost was estimated at $8 million at that time. His proposal was supported by a town justice and several other town officials.

• When this recent $8 million was bonded the town knew full well that there was no grant money available. So why should we not suspect that the town will not be able to renovate what they committed for and that $8 million is going to buy us less again.

• Mr. Nosbisch spoke on the age and condition of the NIKE base police facility. It was constructed in 1967 according to Nosbitch. The Walden Avenue building is over 55 years of age, was a warehouse and never intended to be a police facility.

• Mr. Fronczak was told that the architectural firm was being paid a percentage based on project cost. Mr. Fronczak should have asked what that percentage is. Considering I am hearing over $200,000, I would assume it has to be near 3%. The design firm has the time, but does the town have the money?

Near eight years and counting since the Walden Avenue building was purchased and we keep delaying renovation for one reason or another. The police deserve better! The town taxpayers deserve better!

Interesting, very very interesting Lee. In reading your editorial it lends me many questions. Actually, this scenerio is more questionable as one probes into the depth of this story.

8 million dollars bonded, this facility was purchased in 2003. An old building already that NOW requires extensive retrofitting. It sounds like "according to Giza" that the retrofitting will basically mean trashing this facility as it stands to build to suite. Because I am reading this as according to Giza, "pillars around the building to protect it so no one rams it with a dynamite car." WHAT???? is his thing with dynamite. Did I not read or should I say watch a video on this Speakup that Gorja posted regarding Lancaster Wetlands and Giza stating dynamite...oh sorry I got off topic....anyways,,,and what about the walls going to the ceiling...well you might as well start from scratch and build a new building. But they already have spent taxpayer money for this outdated aluminum building!

Oh love Aquino's statement I read in Lee's editorial, "when you design a building of this size and with such requirements it doesn't happen over night." No ***** 8 freakin' years! I didn't no time was on a different wave length. Kind of like time in the Bible, ya' know what I mean?

Well, because Ruffino has really no answers and Fronsak is right in questioning the design. I mean there should be a blueprint.

Realist does have great points. Wait any longer and merging will be with the Sheriffs department and you can forget all this except when you get your next tax bill which by the way is coming in February.

I guess we all should go in the existing police station and visit it and see what the state of affairs are. On the outside, it looks rough. But I don't know what the inside looks like so I cannot make a judgement.

I say tear it all down and merge with the Sheriffs.

[gorja]

Originally posted by shortstuff:
you can forget all this except when you get your next tax bill which by the way is coming in February.

Shorty, my tax bill came today. If yours didn't, the tax bills are online at the town's site.

Posted by shortstuff:
I say tear it all down and merge with the Sheriffs.

That's the right idea. And put that property on Walden back on the tax rolls.

[TTDeathInLan]

My tax bill came today also, I'm not a happy camper. Back to to cop station. How many cops do you hear complaining with the old facility? Keep throwing them raises and mum's the word.

All this talk about a new police station boiles down to the cops being in a building a half an hour a day. Do we really need to concern ourselfs with the current building not having showers. Do any of these men and women cops have a bathroom with a tub-shower at home? Give me a break!

Ask the recently retired town cop who will receive over 80,000 dollars for a pension if the old police station was the reason he finally retired. I don't think so.

When you get your tax bill, maybe you'll think twice about any new police facility.

In the meantime-give the Colecraft building away or sell it for a buck to some deserving IDA applicant.

[Lee Chowaniec]

My tax bill came today also, I'm not a happy camper. Back to to cop station. How many cops do you hear complaining with the old facility? Keep throwing them raises and mum's the word.

All this talk about a new police station boiles down to the cops being in a building a half an hour a day. Do we really need to concern ourselfs with the current building not having showers. Do any of these men and women cops have a bathroom with a tub-shower at home? Give me a break!

Ask the recently retired town cop who will receive over 80,000 dollars for a pension if the old police station was the reason he finally retired. I don't think so.

When you get your tax bill, maybe you'll think twice about any new police facility.

In the meantime-give the Colecraft building away or sell it for a buck to some deserving IDA applicant.

We have been screwing around with this project for eight years and the longer renovaton is delayed the less building we get for more money. To really see how screwed up this project was right from the beginning go to the Speakup archives and punch in keywords like Colecraft building, Walden Avenue police building, etc. and follow the process and timeline.

Yes this building should have been sold and put back on the tax rolls. Despite all gthe people suggesting that the town never seriously marketed the building for sale. We were told they had a few buyers interested in the purchase but that they had backed out. The laugh about the so-called attempted sale is that we had board members that declared the building should be sold for a profit. It was/is the opinion of those that toured the building that the purchase price was exorbitant to begin with. What was even more ludicrous was when one of the residents touring the building asked the Supervisor whether he knew a Robert Benzel who was an offical of Colecraft, he answered that he thought he was a forklift operator. Benzel served with the Supervisor on the Lancaster IDA.

Then again, the Walden Avenue building should never have been purchased in the first place. Near $2 million was bonded for the purchase and another $8 million was recently bonded for the renovation and the due date for completion was given as indefinite.

Another $2.3 million was spent on the expansion/building addition for the Town Hall.

The budget increased in spending by over 6% after the town cut over $500,000 in spending - $160,000 of that came from delaying principal on a bond debt.

Every town employee got a salary increase from 2.75% - 3%. No town employee pays for health insurance and most get a $6,800 stipend should they opt out of the insurance plan becasue they have outside insurance from another source.

While the fire districts get generous five year contracts and the town pays into a pension system we are told a bidding process had to take place so there was no appearance of a monopoly and it was done to save taxpayers the cost of workman's comp for the volunteers - $32,000.

I guess we all look pretty dumb and are expected to pay our taxes and just shut up. And when some of you get those tax bills with the significant tax increase remember to not only run and bitch to the Assesor, also contact the Town Board members and complain on the 6+% spending increase.

Lastly, several residents have contacted me on the Rural Metro survey and the loaded questions positioned to favor their getting the ambulance contract. It is the opinion of those residents that Rural Metro shot themselves in the foot. Nice touch guys. Your position on the legality of dispension of payment by LVAC through third party billing was also a class act.

[gorja]

Originally posted by Lee Chowaniec:
Lastly, several residents have contacted me on the Rural Metro survey and the loaded questions positioned to favor their getting the ambulance contract.

I got a recorded message last night but the first part was cut off.
. . . . .subsidies and benefits from the town to provide ambulance services. They’re a private provider who would like to provide the same or even better quality and reliable ambulance service at no cost, while assuring the town will never again have to pay subsidies. Should the town develop a bidding process that allows for an open and transparent process that identifies the most reliable and accountable ambulance company? Press 1 for yes. Press 2 for no.

[gshowell]

I got a recorded message last night but the first part was cut off.
. . . . .subsidies and benefits from the town to provide ambulance services. They’re a private provider who would like to provide the same or even better quality and reliable ambulance service at no cost, while assuring the town will never again have to pay subsidies. Should the town develop a bidding process that allows for an open and transparent process that identifies the most reliable and accountable ambulance company? Press 1 for yes. Press 2 for no.

I got the same call. I thought it was one of the most biased poll ever. Biased against LVAC. I'm curious as to who paid for it.

[hawkeye]

We have been screwing around with this project for eight years and the longer renovaton is delayed the less building we get for more money. To really see how screwed up this project was right from the beginning go to the Speakup archives and punch in keywords like Colecraft building, Walden Avenue police building, etc. and follow the process and timeline.

Yes this building should have been sold and put back on the tax rolls. Despite all gthe people suggesting that the town never seriously marketed the building for sale. We were told they had a few buyers interested in the purchase but that they had backed out. The laugh about the so-called attempted sale is that we had board members that declared the building should be sold for a profit. It was/is the opinion of those that toured the building that the purchase price was exorbitant to begin with. What was even more ludicrous was when one of the residents touring the building asked the Supervisor whether he knew a Robert Benzel who was an offical of Colecraft, he answered that he thought he was a forklift operator. Benzel served with the Supervisor on the Lancaster IDA.

Then again, the Walden Avenue building should never have been purchased in the first place. Near $2 million was bonded for the purchase and another $8 million was recently bonded for the renovation and the due date for completion was given as indefinite.

Another $2.3 million was spent on the expansion/building addition for the Town Hall.

The budget increased in spending by over 6% after the town cut over $500,000 in spending - $160,000 of that came from delaying principal on a bond debt.

Every town employee got a salary increase from 2.75% - 3%. No town employee pays for health insurance and most get a $6,800 stipend should they opt out of the insurance plan becasue they have outside insurance from another source.

While the fire districts get generous five year contracts and the town pays into a pension system we are told a bidding process had to take place so there was no appearance of a monopoly and it was done to save taxpayers the cost of workman's comp for the volunteers - $32,000.

I guess we all look pretty dumb and are expected to pay our taxes and just shut up. And when some of you get those tax bills with the significant tax increase remember to not only run and bitch to the Assesor, also contact the Town Board members and complain on the 6+% spending increase.

Lastly, several residents have contacted me on the Rural Metro survey and the loaded questions positioned to favor their getting the ambulance contract. It is the opinion of those residents that Rural Metro shot themselves in the foot. Nice touch guys. Your position on the legality of dispension of payment by LVAC through third party billing was also a class act.

Lee I would be stupid to think you don't have the answer but please play along. Eight years ago, went the town purchased the coldcraft building from their buddy, the $ 1.00 was somewhat worth it's valve of $1.00 and eight years later $ .60 get us a $ 8,000,000 .00 police station and no one is wiser. Get sh"t when you deal with sh"t.

[hawkeye]

Lee I would be stupid to think you don't have the answer but please play along. Eight years ago, went the town purchased the coldcraft building from their buddy, the $ 1.00 was somewhat worth it's valve of $1.00 and eight years later $ .60 get us a $ 8,000,000 .00 police station and no one is wiser. Get sh"t when you deal with sh"t.

Went by the new police station Friday night about 7:00 P.M.and to my surprise I saw a Lancaster Police car driving INTO the building, We are paying for $8,000,000.00 parking garage? I was under the impression That it was being use as a Police station not a drive thru? Maybe the town can use it as a Delta Sonic went nothing is happening in the town to recop some cost!

[shortstuff]

Went by the new police station Friday night about 7:00 P.M.and to my surprise I saw a Lancaster Police car driving INTO the building, We are paying for $8,000,000.00 parking garage? I was under the impression That it was being use as a Police station not a drive thru? Maybe the town can use it as a Delta Sonic went nothing is happening in the town to recop some cost!

So your comment here made me curious and so I drove by the building. First time I took a look at it as we drove by. I made an error and said it was aluminum. It isn't. All brick it appears. Actually to be perfectly honest, the outside is beautiful. The place is HUGE. Which garage entry did the car go into?

Location is good, but then we drove by the existing police stay~~yuck...we have a situation.

[hawkeye]

We have been screwing around with this project for eight years and the longer renovaton is delayed the less building we get for more money. To really see how screwed up this project was right from the beginning go to the Speakup archives and punch in keywords like Colecraft building, Walden Avenue police building, etc. and follow the process and timeline.

Yes this building should have been sold and put back on the tax rolls. Despite all gthe people suggesting that the town never seriously marketed the building for sale. We were told they had a few buyers interested in the purchase but that they had backed out. The laugh about the so-called attempted sale is that we had board members that declared the building should be sold for a profit. It was/is the opinion of those that toured the building that the purchase price was exorbitant to begin with. What was even more ludicrous was when one of the residents touring the building asked the Supervisor whether he knew a Robert Benzel who was an offical of Colecraft, he answered that he thought he was a forklift operator. Benzel served with the Supervisor on the Lancaster IDA.

Then again, the Walden Avenue building should never have been purchased in the first place. Near $2 million was bonded for the purchase and another $8 million was recently bonded for the renovation and the due date for completion was given as indefinite.

Another $2.3 million was spent on the expansion/building addition for the Town Hall.

The budget increased in spending by over 6% after the town cut over $500,000 in spending - $160,000 of that came from delaying principal on a bond debt.

Every town employee got a salary increase from 2.75% - 3%. No town employee pays for health insurance and most get a $6,800 stipend should they opt out of the insurance plan becasue they have outside insurance from another source.

While the fire districts get generous five year contracts and the town pays into a pension system we are told a bidding process had to take place so there was no appearance of a monopoly and it was done to save taxpayers the cost of workman's comp for the volunteers - $32,000.

I guess we all look pretty dumb and are expected to pay our taxes and just shut up. And when some of you get those tax bills with the significant tax increase remember to not only run and bitch to the Assesor, also contact the Town Board members and complain on the 6+% spending increase.

Lastly, several residents have contacted me on the Rural Metro survey and the loaded questions positioned to favor their getting the ambulance contract. It is the opinion of those residents that Rural Metro shot themselves in the foot. Nice touch guys. Your position on the legality of dispension of payment by LVAC through third party billing was also a class act.

I was just contacted buy one of the insiders and informed that the work on the colcraft building has been stop yes stopped no funding coming from the Feds. The fact that they didn't get the funds means yes you and me as taxpayers are stuck with it. That $.60 on the Dollar is now 10 cents on the dollar. Yes Giza and Ronnie screwed this one up AGAIN. Lock up your kids the bandits are out and running in Lancaster. The people that suit the town almost ten years ago were correct and this is the results of poor goverment at it's best.

[Lee Chowaniec]

I was just contacted buy one of the insiders and informed that the work on the colcraft building has been stop yes stopped no funding coming from the Feds. The fact that they didn't get the funds means yes you and me as taxpayers are stuck with it. That $.60 on the Dollar is now 10 cents on the dollar. Yes Giza and Ronnie screwed this one up AGAIN. Lock up your kids the bandits are out and running in Lancaster. The people that suit the town almost ten years ago were correct and this is the results of poor goverment at it's best.

I heard the project has been put on official hold as well because no federal or state grant money is available. What I don't understand is that it was announced sometime in the past that no grant money was available and yet the town proceded to bond for $8 million and told residents in the past year that the project would be completed in October 2011, later announced the project was in the hands of architectural designers and would be completed in March of 2012.

The renovation would encompass 40,000 to 45,000 square feet of the 76,000 square foot Walden Avenue police facility.

Knowing grant money was unavailable, bonding took place for $8 million with the promise of building completion. Now putting this building on official hold because the town can't get grant money does that imply that the town can't renovate the area they wanted to and promised for $8 million?

Near eight years has passed since the purchase of the Walden Avnue Building. A building has been taken off the tax rolls, purchased for $1.6 million with a $1.9 million bond, another $8 million bond taken for renovation, hundreds of thousands of dollars in maintenance and utility costs, all for the housing of a detective squad and town/school district storage of equipment and supplies.

I wonder how the police feel about this?

[shortstuff]

Well I believe there is a town board meeting this upcoming Monday where people now need to direct their questions again to Ruffino and Giza~~"what are the plans?"

So I have a question, if they bonded 8 million, does that mean they have already spent that or does it mean that the money they bonded is only used if the project moves forward? If they have not used that money, and if the project has been halted----then can they not require the taxpayers to pay that?

We all knew there was no money for that station, now how does the the people of Lancaster hold our officials accountable? Does this require a news media person to inquire?

[hawkeye]

Well I believe there is a town board meeting this upcoming Monday where people now need to direct their questions again to Ruffino and Giza~~"what are the plans?"

So I have a question, if they bonded 8 million, does that mean they have already spent that or does it mean that the money they bonded is only used if the project moves forward? If they have not used that money, and if the project has been halted----then can they not require the taxpayers to pay that?

We all knew there was no money for that station, now how does the the people of Lancaster hold our officials accountable? Does this require a news media person to inquire?

Require a news media ask the question Ha Ha? Sorry for the mock it's not at you. This is a joke,who do we think in the media has the guts. The Bee the Towns personal butt kiss weekly yes media NOT. The Buffalo News that show up with some want a be reporter, who does a one article and next week in Olean writing about cows crap as feed for the farmers chickens. The TV station that report about the former highway supervisor and railroad the guy, or the eyewiteness team that has the camera man or woman getting it all screw up or the Ch 2 red coats that are buddy buddy with town fathers. O yes the source the heart beat of the community get real. This will be confronted and Ronnie will pass the buck off and the Town attorney the DWI expert ( self proclamming BSer) Lets not forget this is a poor govenering body and the Taxpayers will not get the TRUTH ! Lets see who gets up and says anything ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!