Reply With QuoteThe ECHDC Plan PDF can be found here:
http://www.canalsidebuffalo.com/imag...ef_acrobat.pdf
CANAL SIDE QUICK FACTS:
The Canal Side plan for the Inner Harbor is a mixed-use development which includes:
museums
a marketplace
an arcade
a marina
a public plaza
residences
a hotel
retail
The cost of the project will be split evenly by public funds and Benderson Development Corp.
When complete, the diverse array of development projects will generate nearly 1,000 new jobs, almost $9.5 million in annual sales-tax revenues and $1.2 million in new yearly property taxes for the City of Buffalo. Over the course of 20 years, the project will generate approximately $189 million in sales tax revenue.
Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World has signed a predevelopment agreement to become the first major tenant with a 100,000-sq.ft., three-story retail store built overlooking the Inner Harbor. The wood, glass and brick building with multiple roof lines and facades will evoke the historical design of the original pre-Civil War Central Wharf building.
ECHDC will construct a 20,000 sq. ft. Erie Canal Museum and 30,000 sq. ft. arcade/public market.
Canal Side will include in excess of a half-million square feet of mixed-use space for retail, hotel, office, residential and restaurant use. Benderson is expected to develop:
200,000 to 250,000 sq. ft. of retail space;
60,000 to 80,000 sq. ft. of restaurant and entertainment space;
15,000 to 30,000 sq. ft. of office space;
75,000 to 125,000 sq. ft. of hotel space;
40,000 to 75,000 sq. ft. of residential space.
Parking ramps to hold approximately 1,300 vehicles on the Donovan, Webster and Historic blocks.
Public access to the water’s edge will be maintained as a result of a 50-ft.-wide boardwalk will wrap around the Bass Pro Shops store. Green space in the form of an open-air plaza located next to the store overlooking the harbor will be open to the public.
ECHDC will bear the cost of site preparation and construction of the three-level building, using $25 million of the $35 million of funds that were originally earmarked by the State of New York, City of Buffalo and County of Erie when the project was announced in November 2004. The remaining $10 million will be contributed to the cost of demolishing the Aud.
ECHDC will own the building and Bass Pro Shops will pay common area maintenance and fees of $300,000 a year for an initial 20-year lease with renewals to 50 years for a total of $15 million.
At its cost, Bass Pro Shops will operate the Erie Canal Transportation Museum and a new harbor marina located adjacent to the store that will be open to the public.
People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.
The ECHDC Plan PDF can be found here:
http://www.canalsidebuffalo.com/imag...ef_acrobat.pdf
People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.
and commentary from the other side
After six decades of neglect and inactivity, the Governor was rightfully concerned that recent waterfront projects on the boards were also stalled and heading towards failure yet again. The Adelphia tower was dead, the Bass Pro project was stalled, the Opus project on the outer harbor was teetering and even the much-vaunted Canal project had not attracted a single private investor. The Governor correctly determined that a fresh approach was needed.
Step two: Use Bass Pro, one of the hottest and most in-demand retailers in ffice to attract an experienced, national mixed-use developer to bring the other national and local stores, apartments, hotel and restaurants that will create a new urban place on currently vacant Main Street.
Step three: While the first two steps are underway; build a bridge across the river to connect downtown to the Outer Harborlace. The bridge will serve as the gateway from downtown to the waterfront and lay the groundwork for new neighborhoods and recreational areas along the river and lake. This is potentially a very exciting and life- changing event for the City of Buffalolace. It should be fairly simple.
Although the ECHDC plan for Bass Pro and Canal Side adheres to this step-by-step process, it does not deviate in any material way with the goals and intent of the original Canal District Master Plan. Like the old plan, the new plan retains the historic cobblestone streets and the river walkway and floating pier on the water’s edge. The interpretive exhibits along the canal will be built where they were always intended. No building will be built in excess of the pre-established design standards. Although the Aud and the unsightly lace w:st="on">Donovan State Office Buildinglace> finally will be torn down, no historic structures will be demolished. Parking structures will be built with historic facades and liner buildings that will disguise their true function, just like their counterparts at Boston’s historic Faneuil Hall and the Baltimore’s
There is only one difference between the new plan and the old one. Instead of placing plaques in the ground commemorating the site of the Central Wharf building, the new plan proposes to actually reconstruct the original building in all its glory. That will necessitate shifting the public plaza to the area adjacent to the canal historic artifacts. Given wind, weather and functionality, the new plaza location seems more appropriate anyway.
Some people want to fight about where the plaza ought to be, as if there is a substantial difference between the new and old location.
They don’t want parking, as if any project could conceivably be successful without it.
They don’t want big-box stores, as if reconstructing the Central Wharflace is analogous to erecting a single-story cinder-block building in a sea of asphalt.
They think the project costs the public too much, as if leaving the ground vacant for the last 70 years didn’t cost us millions upon millions. They ignore the tens of millions of dollars to be generated in sales and property taxes and the economic impact of new jobs.
They don’t like the process; we apparently didn’t consult with the “right” people or the so-called “business leaders” who shoot arrows from hide behind a veil of anonymity and offer nothing but criticism.
In all the crosstalk, the point is lost.
http://www.canalsidebuffalo.com/comm...arryquinn.html
People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.
An economic fine point that should e kept in mind. It's very bad when the government owns land that a business its on. Normally in the market, a business must justify its continued existence on that real estate compared with other possible uses. Since the government continues to own the land, we will never have that market test of whether Bass Pro is the best economic use for that land.
I just thought I'd throw that in since I hadn't mentioned it before.
Like all estimates of future positive impact that come from the government (irresponsible bureaucrats), the above is total bullcrap.
"Parking ramps to hold approximately 1,300 vehicles on the Donovan, Webster and Historic blocks." Looks like Tielman is right, three new parking ramps. How many parking ramps do you see in Charleston, the Upper East Side, Savannah, etc.?
Savannah GA Downtown District has
5 City Lots
4 private lots
3 Private Garages
4 Municiple Garages
In their Downtown Map. Clustered mostly in the historic waterfront
Charleston has
11 City Garages
5 other Garages
Mostly located by the historic sites
The Upper East side - Who knows, its New York, there is no parking anywhere in NY
I don't know the relative size of the areas compared to the planned Buffalo development
Thats a lot of garages
People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.
If you walk along and near the water in those towns, you don't see above-ground parking ramps. You see parks and beautiful historic buildings. In Manhattan, you don't see them. They are ugly and kill "street action."
Let's learn from successful cities.
Oh, not too many parking ramps along Route 1 in California.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_1
They have a page called Rumour Mill where readers are encouraged to send in questions.
Buffalo has more grapevines than the Finger Lakes, but too often the fruit is sour grapes.
Have you heard or read a rumor about what's REALLY happening with Canal Side?
Email us the basic information or a link and we'll address the question in this space.
I have sent the following:
It will be interesting to see what reply if any I recieve.Hello,
My name is Steven XXXXXX and I am a moderator at speakup wny a message board dedicated to local politics. http://forums.speakupwny.com/index.php
A debate on the message board is currently going in the freebuffalo section of the message board ( http://forums.speakupwny.com/forumdisplay.php?f=68 ) about the actual cost incurred by the tax payer for Bass Pro.
Tim Tielman's blog report sites the following costs:
Stated and estimated costs: $95, 800,000
$25,000,000 Bass Pro store**
$14,800,000 Bass Pro museum**
$34,500,000 parking ramps***
$4,000,000 Benderson "tenant improvements"**
$7,500,000 Yacht basin at foot of Main Street to be made available to Bass Pro free of charge****
$10,000,000 Demolition of Memorial Auditorium*****
In addition, $46,500,000 will have been spent on public improvements in the Canal District by the end of this year.
Foregone revenue
# Difference between market value of Aud Block, Donovan Block, Webster Block, and Canal District blocks and the $10.00 received from Benderson Development.
# Difference between recreational, aesthetic, and social value of Central Wharf as public space and Central Wharf as non-revenue-producing private space.
# Sales taxes on construction of Bass Pro store
# Real estate taxes on Bass Pro store
# Sale or lease payments and real estate taxes on surface lots to be controlled by Bass Pro.
http://greaterbuffalo.blogs.com/gbb/...ess_.html#more
Any comments on this blog report would be greatly appreciated.
Particularly of interest is how much is actually for Bass Pro and not developments that will go on with or without bass pro and the line in Tielmans Blog that says "$4,000,000 Benderson "tenant improvements" as there is some ambiguity as to what that means.
We are all anxiously awaiting your reply,
Steven
This would be a great oppurtunity IMHO for free Buffalo to engage The ECHDC directly on this subject. The link to the page is:
http://www.canalsidebuffalo.com/rumormill.html
People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.
Why can't they be built underground?
if you walk along the water in the buffalo plans you wont see parking either as none of the plan puts a ramp on the water
Jim that is adressed in the above statementOriginally Posted by Jim Ostrowski
Parking structures will be built with historic facades and liner buildings that will disguise their true function, just like their counterparts at Boston’s historic Faneuil Hall and the Baltimore’s
People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.
"Street action," you know, the concept that makes other cities like Paris, London, NYC, Erie PA!!!!!!!, Charleston, Savannah and SF great places to visit, is completely unfamiliar to the local power elite. They prefer block killers like the Convention Center.
Marc Goldman understands it though, which is why Chippewa is one of our few success stories. See also, Elmwood and Hertel. There, the government did some infrastructure and left the market to work its magic.
But the counter could be that since the government owns the land, the city will have more control over what happens there.
For example, the Bass Pro store would have multiple roof lines. Say worse case scenario happens, the city could at a relatively low cost, divide the building into multiple units for multiple tenants.
Speaking of Bull.... The estimates of future positive impact at least have a formula. You have yet to provide ANY type of numbers to back up your tag of $46.5 million in additional cost. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black......
I don't have a record of bs numbers-crunching; the government does. But you like to throw accusations around.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions