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Thread: Can someone define what "affordable" housing is supposed to be?

  1. #1
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Can someone define what "affordable" housing is supposed to be?

    Can someone define what "affordable" housing is supposed to be?

    You look at Buffalo and they build homes that are subsidized by others. Is that what "affordable" housing is? just having someone else pay for it? Some of the homes subsidized look far nicer than like what my one grandfather had on south ogden.

    I don't remember a basement at all. A small longer wash room with a old washer, a kitchen, 1 small bathroom, 1 small living room attached to another small front room.. one lower small bedroom and a room that was a bedroom or would have been 1/2 an attic for the most part.

    Why are they not building small really affordable homes versus stuff ranging upwards of 100,000 or more calling it affordable housing?

    They will be tearing it down soon.

    old house

    Just because you force others to pay for something doesn't mean it's affordable housing. All it means is someone else had their money used to help someone buy a home they can't afford in the first place.

  2. #2
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Can someone define what "affordable" housing is supposed to be?

    You look at Buffalo and they build homes that are subsidized by others. Is that what "affordable" housing is? just having someone else pay for it? Some of the homes subsidized look far nicer than like what my one grandfather had on south ogden.

    I don't remember a basement at all. A small longer wash room with a old washer, a kitchen, 1 small bathroom, 1 small living room attached to another small front room.. one lower small bedroom and a room that was a bedroom or would have been 1/2 an attic for the most part.

    Why are they not building small really affordable homes versus stuff ranging upwards of 100,000 or more calling it affordable housing?

    They will be tearing it down soon.



    Just because you force others to pay for something doesn't mean it's affordable housing. All it means is someone else had their money used to help someone buy a home they can't afford in the first place.


    You really need to group all of this in one thread.


    I think affordable housing should serve two purposes.


    • The first is to provide a nice place to live for those who need assistance.
    • The second is to provide development that will create a residual benefit to the community that is paying for the housing to be affordable.




    For whatever reason, Buffalo is against dense housing. I think Buffalo should focus on building high quality/dense housing that fits in the urban core. This will provide the population density that allows for spin off development.

    For example, a Wilson Farms will go in a place with lots of residents around it. A ghetto mart will go where there are not. What do you think is better for the overall community?

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    Member nogods's Avatar
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    Everyone who pays less property tax than a higher taxed property is living in housing subsidized by the higher paying property owners.

    Do you want to have your property tax raised to the same level as that of the person paying the highest property tax so your house won't be subsidized housing? You could just make a voluntary contribution of the difference to the town, county and school district to eliminate your blood sucking subsidy.

    Or are you proud about living in subsidized housing? How about your grandfather? How long did he live in that subsidized housing?

  4. #4
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Everyone who pays less property tax than a higher taxed property is living in housing subsidized by the higher paying property owners.

    Do you want to have your property tax raised to the same level as that of the person paying the highest property tax so your house won't be subsidized housing? You could just make a voluntary contribution of the difference to the town, county and school district to eliminate your blood sucking subsidy.

    Or are you proud about living in subsidized housing? How about your grandfather? How long did he live in that subsidized housing?

    You're an idiot.

    Property taxes are based on valuation. Someone who lives in a 2bd/1bath house pays less than someone who lives in a 4bd/2.5bath house because of the valuation.

    Added to this, subsidized housing covers mostly the cost of housing not the taxation on said housing.

  5. #5
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Nogods?

    I want to know why they seem to build larger subsidized homes versus something that was good enough for people in the 30's or 40's etc... You lived within your means. My grandfather gardened in the summer to grow food and I think raised pigeons. I don't know about chickens. The house was kept cold because he paid the bills. They didn't crank the heat up because there was a heap check that someone else paid for.

    The first is to provide a nice place to live for those who need assistance.
    Which is fine but they seem to over build for that purpose.

    I was skimming about the 60 million to move 150 families from one subsidized area to another near UB.

    Why? Are they handicapped/elderly and need monitoring?

    What is wrong with letting people live in what they can afford like my grand parents did. Along with a lot of other people do?

    Make truely affordable housing.. If someone else is paying to subsidize it, it's not affordable housing. It's housing someone can't afford in the first place while other people pay for it.

    Helping the handicap and elderly to a point is what our community should do but what we see seems to be overly costly.

    In one story I skimmed they want to use 60,000,000 to move the 150 families near UB.

    That is 60,000,000 / 150 familes = $400,000 each. I would say who ever is running that part of the program needs to be shown the door. I simplely do not like my money pissed away and that is what it seems like. Just because it might come from hud or government grants it was still your money to start with.

    They can buy homes in the city and invest $75,000 a home to winterize/update and hand over the keys. 150 X $75,000 = $11,250,000 versus $60,000,000. You then create home owners who will pay property taxes. No tax breaks. Everyone has to contribute.

  6. #6
    Member nogods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    You're an idiot.

    Property taxes are based on valuation. Someone who lives in a 2bd/1bath house pays less than someone who lives in a 4bd/2.5bath house because of the valuation.

    Added to this, subsidized housing covers mostly the cost of housing not the taxation on said housing.
    Valuation doesn't relate to the cost of government, which is the pupose of a property tax.

    Idiot.

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    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    They can buy homes in the city and invest $75,000 a home to winterize/update and hand over the keys. 150 X $75,000 = $11,250,000 versus $60,000,000. You then create home owners who will pay property taxes. No tax breaks. Everyone has to contribute.

    The problem with this idea is you are not considering the people who live there. There is a reason, by and large, they live in public housing.

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    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Valuation doesn't relate to the cost of government, which is the purpose of a property tax.

    Idiot.

    Valuation is related to the cost of government you moron.

    If a community has 100 homes valued at 500k, that is a tax base of $50. The government bases the budget on that tax base. This is the reason why Amherst has more money for government services than Cheektowaga you twit.

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    To actually answer the question, I think it's defined by a formula of some sort, i.e. where the housing expense is X% (say 30%) of the Gross Monthly Income of a person who makes X% (say 80%) of the median income in the area.

    In makes sense in a city like NYC, where housing costs are through the roof, and the middle class have to spend a ridiculous amount of their income on rent (yes, rent is too damn high!), but, why it's needed in Buffalo - where you can rent a decent apartment for peanuts - is beyond me.

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    Rez the answer is simple... poorer people have more kids on average. A recent study showed ht the average familly in the top 25% has about 1.7 kids, while the bottom 25% average over 2.5 kids.

    Now which group so oi think can better fund a childs up bringing?

    What it comes down to is local politicians, that tend to be liberals, feel it their job to provide equal housin whether or not the single mother can afford it or ha actually eaned it. I mention a single mother because the mass majority of people on sec 8 housing and welfare are single mothers.
    "I know you guys enjoy reading my stuff because it all makes sense. "

    Dumbest post ever! Thanks for the laugh PO!

  11. #11
    Member nogods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    Valuation is related to the cost of government you moron.

    If a community has 100 homes valued at 500k, that is a tax base of $50. The government bases the budget on that tax base. This is the reason why Amherst has more money for government services than Cheektowaga you twit.
    Lets assume that you and I are neighbors. We own the exact same model homes. You let your home go to crap. in fact, you paint the exterior and interior in such a way that it substantially devalues your home on the market.

    I keep my home in spectacular condition. My home has great curb appeal and high marketability.

    Your home has a fmv of 100,000. My home has a fmv of 200,000. We live in a 100% of fmv assessment district.

    I'm paying twice the real property taxes as you. Am I getting twice the government? Do I get twice as much police protection? Twice as mush road maintenance? Twice as much use of recreational facilities?

    Real property taxes are a burden on the land and structures, and thus are a part of the cost of owning a home. Thus I'm subsidizing your blood sucking freeloading behind, the same way my parents probably subsidized your parent's bloodsucking freeloading behinds, and the same way my grandparents probably subsidized your grandparent's bloodsucking freeloading behinds.

    As this simple example shows, you come from a long line of bloodsucking freeloading behindholes.

    I'm not complaining mind you. I believe that those who can need to help those who can't. I just get upset when those who can't think they are doing what they can't - which in this case is thinking they live in unsubsidized housing while I pay the excess cost of that housing for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougles View Post

    Now which group so oi think can better fund a childs up bringing?

    What it comes down to is local politicians, that tend to be liberals, feel it their job to provide equal housin whether or not the single mother can afford it or ha actually eaned it. I mention a single mother because the mass majority of people on sec 8 housing and welfare are single mothers.
    Speaking for all Liberals (yes, I'm able to do that,) -- the truth is, most of us don't really give a **** about single mothers.

    But, there's kids involved. So, what do we all do when some 22 year-old broad pops out 4 kids. Yes, we'd all like to tell her "what the **** were you thinking," but it's well beyond that. So, seriously, what do you do? Do you just tell her to let the kids starve?

    But, anyway, I think we're getting more into a welfare discussion. The topic is supposed to be Affordable Housing.

  13. #13
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Lets assume that you and I are neighbors. We own the exact same model homes. You let your home go to crap. in fact, you paint the exterior and interior in such a way that it substantially devalues your home on the market.

    I keep my home in spectacular condition. My home has great curb appeal and high marketability.

    Your home has a fmv of 100,000. My home has a fmv of 200,000. We live in a 100% of fmv assessment district.

    I'm paying twice the real property taxes as you. Am I getting twice the government? Do I get twice as much police protection? Twice as mush road maintenance? Twice as much use of recreational facilities?

    Real property taxes are a burden on the land and structures, and thus are a part of the cost of owning a home. Thus I'm subsidizing your blood sucking freeloading behind, the same way my parents probably subsidized your parent's bloodsucking freeloading behinds, and the same way my grandparents probably subsidized your grandparent's bloodsucking freeloading behinds.

    As this simple example shows, you come from a long line of bloodsucking freeloading behindholes.

    I'm not complaining mind you. I believe that those who can need to help those who can't. I just get upset when those who can't think they are doing what they can't - which in this case is thinking they live in unsubsidized housing while I pay the excess cost of that housing for them.

    HA. The only subsidizing your family covered most likely was for landscaping and cleaning duties.


    As for your example of valuation, if you are a big enough moron (and I am pretty sure you are) to live somewhere that has a 100% disparity between home valuations and does not have a CC&R, that is your problem.

    As for your notion that someone who pays twice as much in property taxes not getting twice the amount of return, nowhere did I say I was this wasn't the case.

    Since you do not like to complain..mind if I do? Can you tell your wife to come back over and clean my floors again...she missed a spot. Also, tell her to shower this time.

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    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therising View Post
    Speaking for all Liberals (yes, I'm able to do that,) -- the truth is, most of us don't really give a **** about single mothers.

    But, there's kids involved. So, what do we all do when some 22 year-old broad pops out 4 kids. Yes, we'd all like to tell her "what the **** were you thinking," but it's well beyond that. So, seriously, what do you do? Do you just tell her to let the kids starve?

    But, anyway, I think we're getting more into a welfare discussion. The topic is supposed to be Affordable Housing.

    Obviously you do not let them starve but if a single mother is stupid enough to have 4 kids without being able to support them...it is safe to assume they are going to make stupid decisions all the way around.

    As to feeding the kids, do something similar to a CSA where they get weekly rations of healthy high quality food instead of the responsibility of grocery shopping on their own.

    As for Affordable Housing...once again you can not kick someone out to the street. But would it be too much to require community service? Forcing some type of contribution back to the system that is supporting them?

    Also, would it not be best to put people in housing that makes the most sense for the community rather than what those in said housing want? For example, mid rise apartment buildings with a shared lawn v. townhouses with a lawn each?

  15. #15
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    The problem with this idea is you are not considering the people who live there. There is a reason, by and large, they live in public housing.
    Just because it's available isn't a reason.

    Are they elderly or handicapped? It said they are moderate income. Moderate income isn't a reason to take other people's money and use it. Didn't say low income/elderly who can't care for themselves or handicapped.

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