The Rainbow Center

[Linda_D]

Developer David Cordish wants to donate the Rainbow Center to NCCC for its Culinary Institute and Tourism program. (Rainbow Center). At first glance, that sounds great. However, there are some implications that need to be considered:

• the property would come off the tax rolls
• NCCC would become responsible for the maintenance, which runs Cordish about $400,000 annually
• NCCC only needs about 1/3 of the space in the building. What happens to the rest of it?
• How will this impact NCCC students who will need to take regular college courses as well as courses located at the Culinary Institute?
• Is this the first step in creating a secondary NCCC campus? If so, is that feasible or desirable? Might it not be better to investigate whether this could redeveloped into a new campus and the Sanborn campus sold?

This property is said to be worth millions, but it has stood virtually empty for 10-15 years, and Kordish has not been successful in doing anything much with it in recent years. It seems to me that that kind of building really isn't "worth millions" at all. Look at the Statler in Buffalo -- maybe in NYC or Philly it's worth millions but here in Buffalo, it's worth about $750,000 -- and even that sale may fall through. That says to me that the Rainbow Center is not nearly as valuable as Kordish and others claim. Is this just a scam to stick NCCC with a white elephant while getting the developer fat tax breaks for his "donation".

[300miles]

In the article it says the school would use a third of the building and the rest "would then be turned over to the city and its state development agency for redevelopment."

If that's the case then what he's really doing is handing the property over to the city of Niagara Falls, with the Culinary School getting guaranteed dibs on whatever it wants first.

It sounds like good news for the school, but given NF's track record on development, it leaves the rest of the property up in the air for quite some time.

[Jim Ostrowski]

Great. Another advance of the public sector over the private. Just what we need.

[cookie]

Does Cordish get the same tax breaks he would get if he owned the property outright?
As for its worth, I think a major portion of the worth isn't the building itself, but add the additional acre and the proximity to the Falls. who knows.
Maintenance-if part is going to the City, would the maintenance costs all fall on NCCC?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Developer David Cordish wants to donate the Rainbow Center to NCCC for its Culinary Institute and Tourism program. (Rainbow Center). At first glance, that sounds great. However, there are some implications that need to be considered:

• the property would come off the tax rolls
• NCCC would become responsible for the maintenance, which runs Cordish about $400,000 annually
• NCCC only needs about 1/3 of the space in the building. What happens to the rest of it?
• How will this impact NCCC students who will need to take regular college courses as well as courses located at the Culinary Institute?
• Is this the first step in creating a secondary NCCC campus? If so, is that feasible or desirable? Might it not be better to investigate whether this could redeveloped into a new campus and the Sanborn campus sold?

This property is said to be worth millions, but it has stood virtually empty for 10-15 years, and Kordish has not been successful in doing anything much with it in recent years. It seems to me that that kind of building really isn't "worth millions" at all. Look at the Statler in Buffalo -- maybe in NYC or Philly it's worth millions but here in Buffalo, it's worth about $750,000 -- and even that sale may fall through. That says to me that the Rainbow Center is not nearly as valuable as Kordish and others claim. Is this just a scam to stick NCCC with a white elephant while getting the developer fat tax breaks for his "donation".

I doubt this property even has a positive value. DT Niagara Falls is a disgrace and it is only compounded by the view of the successful NF on the other side of the river.


The only way I could see NF coming back is if they allowed 3-4 casino/hotel complexes to be built on the various parcels of land. Doing this would actually help the Culinary Institute and Tourism program as there would be businesses that actually serviced tourists and served food that needed people with a culinary degree.

[Linda_D]

I doubt this property even has a positive value. DT Niagara Falls is a disgrace and it is only compounded by the view of the successful NF on the other side of the river.

I agree about the value of the property, and that's what raises the red flags to me. This guy couldn't get a deal worked out with NCCC to lease part of it, but then he gives it to the school. I think he's dumping it and aiming to get a multiple millions off his tax bill because of his "charitable" donation.

[300miles]

That's fine by me. The guy wasn't doing anything with it... for how many years? It very well may sit in someone else's hands for many more years, but at least someone else will get a shot at it. I just don't have much faith in the city govt doing the right thing here... they tend to make even worse decisions than Buffalo does. Although I think they did a really good job with the Old Falls Street redo.

[cookie]

It's easier to springboard off of something than nothing. But really, everyone should concentrate on some guy getting tax breaks, don't you think?

I think the article already touched on stuff like bakeries, cafes, etc. How about a shop that offers bento box type lunches for tourists that want to hike around Goat Island? Maybe share that shop with something to cover the winter tourist season. Take some of the Seneca money to build a small skating rink and use that shop for skate rental in the winter.
How about bicycle rental?

Maybe a gift shop or 2?

A pub/bar wouldn't be out of place. Maybe a Spot Coffee?

Are the culinary students required to take other classes?
Can some of the space be turned into student housing and day care?
How about trying for a beauty school and possibly offer day spa type services for tourists? Even during recessive economic times, many people on vacation still like a little pampering, especially international ones.

Some of these ideas might seem silly, but being old school TQM, I'm one that believes even some of the silliest ideas can trigger other more viable ideas.

[300miles]

Those are all great ideas. They need to reconfigure it to create street life instead of a purely indoor mall.

[Linda_D]

It's easier to springboard off of something than nothing. But really, everyone should concentrate on some guy getting tax breaks, don't you think?

My concern is about the college being able to afford the maintenance, particularly since the college only wanted 1/3 of the building. It's obvious that Cordish wants to get out from under this building.

The problem with locating student housing in the building is that it's separated from the NCCC main campus (that's in Sanborn).

[shortstuff]

Developer David Cordish wants to donate the Rainbow Center to NCCC for its Culinary Institute and Tourism program. (Rainbow Center). At first glance, that sounds great. However, there are some implications that need to be considered:

• the property would come off the tax rolls
• NCCC would become responsible for the maintenance, which runs Cordish about $400,000 annually
• NCCC only needs about 1/3 of the space in the building. What happens to the rest of it?
• How will this impact NCCC students who will need to take regular college courses as well as courses located at the Culinary Institute?
• Is this the first step in creating a secondary NCCC campus? If so, is that feasible or desirable? Might it not be better to investigate whether this could redeveloped into a new campus and the Sanborn campus sold?

This property is said to be worth millions, but it has stood virtually empty for 10-15 years, and Kordish has not been successful in doing anything much with it in recent years. It seems to me that that kind of building really isn't "worth millions" at all. Look at the Statler in Buffalo -- maybe in NYC or Philly it's worth millions but here in Buffalo, it's worth about $750,000 -- and even that sale may fall through. That says to me that the Rainbow Center is not nearly as valuable as Kordish and others claim. Is this just a scam to stick NCCC with a white elephant while getting the developer fat tax breaks for his "donation".

I think it's a wonderful idea to have NCCC locate it's Culinary Institute and Tourism Program at the Rainbow Mall. Tourism, what better place to have a great program. That building is sitting vacant, why not use it. Perhaps housing would occupy other parts of the mall, perhaps restaurants might occupy other parts of the mall due to the Institute. Point is, it is a great place for NCCC to have another site.

The Mayor Dyster, who is a wonderful person and is doing a great job is opening up the doors for development to come back into Niagara Falls.

All it takes is one idea, and watch it spin. People need to embrace education and spin off companies. NCCC and ECCC are becoming an affordable way to obtain education.

Wake up people, this is a great idea.

Linda, you don't live here, worry about your own town.

[Linda_D]

I think it's a wonderful idea to have NCCC locate it's Culinary Institute and Tourism Program at the Rainbow Mall. Tourism, what better place to have a great program. That building is sitting vacant, why not use it. Perhaps housing would occupy other parts of the mall, perhaps restaurants might occupy other parts of the mall due to the Institute. Point is, it is a great place for NCCC to have another site.

The Mayor Dyster, who is a wonderful person and is doing a great job is opening up the doors for development to come back into Niagara Falls.

All it takes is one idea, and watch it spin. People need to embrace education and spin off companies. NCCC and ECCC are becoming an affordable way to obtain education.

Wake up people, this is a great idea.

Linda, you don't live here, worry about your own town.

Nowhere did I oppose the idea of the programs being downtown. I do question the "gift" of this building to the college, however. There's a big cost difference between a college leasing just the space it needs to launch a new program and maintaining an aging building that contains 3 times the space it needs. Who pays the difference, shortstuff? It's your tax money, not mine, since my local community college minds its money carefully.

Moreover, if Cordish, who has been a successful developer elsewhere, couldn't develop the Rainbow Centre, I fail to see how NCCC is going to do it. As for NCCC being a catalyst for redevelopment, you might want to check out all the development that hasn't spun off from the ECC City Campus which has been in downtown Buffalo for almost 30 years now.

[cookie]

does the downtown ecc campus offer programs that are conducive to spin-offs?
the spin-offs hoped for (for now) at nccc/rainbow centre are a direct result of the culinary program.

[Linda_D]

does the downtown ecc campus offer programs that are conducive to spin-offs?
the spin-offs hoped for (for now) at nccc/rainbow centre are a direct result of the culinary program.

The idea of the community colleges as a spur to development just isn't shown anywhere in NYS, although civic boosters like to pretend they will be when arguing for new campuses. The fact is that community colleges aren't research facilities so there's no technology to "spin off" from college programs. Since students are primarily commuters who come to campus, attend classes, and then leave, even businesses catering to students seldom take root around community colleges. Even community colleges that have student housing on/near campus don't generate much "spin off business" because the number of resident students (generally a few hundred at most) is too small to impact the area unless it's in a really, really small town -- and I don't know of any NYS CCs that are located in really small towns.

Virtually all development around community colleges either predates the campuses or grew without regard to the campus' existence all. Development around ECC North or South campuses is because of the growth of commercial areas of Amherst and Hamburg/OP not because there are college campuses there. Genessee CC sits next to the Thruway amid farm fields. The shopping plaza outside the main entrance to Hudson Valley CC and the commerical strip along Second Street near JCC both pre-date the building of those college campuses.

[cookie]

exactly.
This will probably be a first as far as comm. college -> spin-off business directly attributable to it.