Fire Fighters call for Foley to RESIGN !

[4248]

In a atmosphere of confusion and anger - Buffalo Fire Fighter last night called for Union President J. Foley to resign. They are upset over not being able to see , read or have explained to them the "Complete wording of their proposed contract."

If there is anyone out there that has a "Full - complete copy - including the two grievance being accepted by the City and Fire Union President-" please post it or send a copy to the Fire Fighters and the Buffalo News.

Members are confused and scared concerning the lack of candor and because they feel excluded from the contract process . They don't even know who prepared the lasted proposal ! When asked last night The Union President couldn't give a straight answer .

No one line fire fighter has seen a " Full and complete copy " no one on the line has seen , " a full or partial copy of the Unions outline of contract proposals." When asked for these items the Union Reps and President could not or would not provide them . Perhaps because the Union did not have any proposals . Why , who goes into a negotiations without a plan ? Where was the members input ? Where is the lists or outlines of these items ?


Who benefits from the two remaining grievances ?

What is the "total wording/content" of those grievances ?

[PBAguy]

then look into doing whatever your members majority wants. I understand there were even some on your negotiating team that didn't agree with bringing this contract back. Look to them for leadership. Maybe look into your Legal Counsel too.

[fireman]

In a atmosphere of confusion and anger - Buffalo Fire Fighter last night called for Union President J. Foley to resign. They are upset over not being able to see , read or have explained to them the "Complete wording of their proposed contract."

If there is anyone out there that has a "Full - complete copy - including the two grievance being accepted by the City and Fire Union President-" please post it or send a copy to the Fire Fighters and the Buffalo News.

Members are confused and scared concerning the lack of candor and because they feel excluded from the contract process . They don't even know who prepared the lasted proposal ! When asked last night The Union President couldn't give a straight answer .

No one line fire fighter has seen a " Full and complete copy " no one on the line has seen , " a full or partial copy of the Unions outline of contract proposals." When asked for these items the Union Reps and President could not or would not provide them . Perhaps because the Union did not have any proposals . Why , who goes into a negotiations without a plan ? Where was the members input ? Where is the lists or outlines of these items ?


Who benefits from the two remaining grievances ?

What is the "total wording/content" of those grievances ?

Bullitt:

Your posts on the fire department are entertaining, but the truth is not as interesting.

Foley was not formally asked to resign. A vote of "no confidence" was taken and passed overwhelmingly.

Every firehouse was sent a copy if the signed contract. If people didn't see it, they weren't looking.

[4248]

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman
to Bullitt:responses in blue


"Your posts on the fire department are entertaining, but the truth is not as interesting.

Foley was not formally asked to resign. "

Members were asking about his (Foley's) resignation , because they were shouted over , and ignored by the Executive board , doesn't mean it wasn't said and the feelings shared by most in attendance .


A vote of "no confidence" was taken and passed overwhelmingly.

A vote of " No confidence " for Foley is as close to recall as you can get !




Every firehouse was sent a copy if the signed contract . If people didn't see it , they weren't looking .

Again Sir , deceptive words don't make it true , the firemen/women only received a copy of portions of the " Proposed contract ." A complete " signed contract " would have included the " where as portions " and list of the " grievances " to be accepted and dissolved due to bargaining ( if one can possibly call it that ) between the City and the Fire-men/women Union . Also a true outline of the " New Health Care Plan " (fornication plan would be more appropriate) was never even seen by president Foley (FACT!) . NO break down of the full cost of shift changes (24hours on duty) were exposed - how many extra hours fire fighters will work , for less yearly pay , vaction , increased health care costs and other monetary losses .( its the UNIONS job to present those facts) .

Why should the fire-fighters "have had to Look for it (the contract) , if one was given to each of them (or supplied to each house) ? "

So i guess , one partial copy of a "propose partial contract " is what you and Foley believe to be sufficent information ?

I know that all this word twisting , is whats helping to " misinform and misdirect " the public and fire fighters from the truth . How do you guys expect to educate the taxpaying public and give your fire fighters credible information if the Union Executive Board members are the only ones privy to the full contracts impact and wording ? ? ? ? ? ? ? , (or don't they have all the facts either? ).

The fire-fighter that channel 4 showed leaving the vote should have been able to fully and honestly answer the questions put to him - he just sounded like another self serving - money seeking employee .

I feel sorry for you guys , when the TV camera arrived , one of your Executive board members should have been waiting with
" FACTS IN HAND " - two copies - one for him to quote and one to present to the reporters !


In closing: Please ask your president to please stop saying,
"Those , them, the Fire Fighters ," it really shows how detached he is from them.
________________

[fireman]

Again, you have mischaracterized my words. In no way have I supported Foley in his actions. In fact, I was one of his biggest critics. But it does no good to muddle the story with incorrect info.

I only stayed at the meeting for an hour, but I heard no one demanding his resignation. There is no doubt a large number in attendance, including myself, want to see him gone, but no one formally asked when I was there.

The Control Board's resolution which included the "whereas" language was also sent to the firehouses. But this was a non-issue. Foley's claim that it changed the contract was a feeble attempt to snatch victory out of the mouth of defeat. The CB resolution did not do what Foley said it did.

The lack of specificity concerning the health care plan was one of the most important reasons why the members rejected the proposal. Foley couldn't explain the plan because it wasn't even negotiated.

The 24 hour schedule, which I don't want, would not have resulted in any extra work time. It was still 48 hours in 8 day's time.

The extra hours we would have to work was spelled out quite clearly. One week's vacation and 9 hours of personal leave.

At some point in time, each fireman was given a copy of the CBA. Each firehouse is supposed to have a copy, but they often get swiped. If that happens, you can go to the union office or call your trustee to obtain one. The proposal that Foley signed and the members rejected is effectively an amendment to the original CBA. There has not been a new contract book produced in almost twenty years. The city is supposed to share the costs of printing, but they refuse. For whatever reason, the various executive boards have decided not to print updated copies.

Anything more you need to know, I will be glad to educate you.

[4248]

Again, you have mischaracterized my words. In no way have I supported Foley in his actions. In fact, I was one of his biggest critics. But it does no good to muddle the story with incorrect info.

I only stayed at the meeting for an hour, but I heard no one demanding his resignation. OK you didn't hear them say it, formally! There is no doubt a large number in attendance, including myself, want to see him gone, but no one formally asked when I was there.

The Control Board's resolution which included the "whereas" language was also sent to the firehouses. But this was a non-issue. Foley's claim that it changed the contract was a feeble attempt to snatch victory out of the mouth of defeat. The CB resolution did not do what Foley said it did.

Where and on what date before the contract was signed by Foley was the "Whereas language" portion , "wording of grievances being negotiated" (as part of the contract language) distributed to either the fire houses or members ? Where were these in the proposal from the Union to the City - OH! I forgot there wasn't any proposals by the Union to the City ever presented to the Body of the Union - FACT? or if i am wrong "Educate me!"

The lack of specificity concerning the health care plan was one of the most important reasons why the members rejected the proposal. Foley couldn't explain the plan because it wasn't even negotiated.

The 24 hour schedule, which I don't want, would not have resulted in any extra work time. It was still 48 hours in 8 day's time.

The extra hours we would have to work was spelled out quite clearly. One week's vacation and 9 hours of personal leave.

At some point in time, each fireman was given a copy of the CBA. Each firehouse is supposed to have a copy, but they often get swiped. If that happens, you can go to the union office or call your trustee to obtain one.

"The proposal that Foley signed and the members rejected is effectively an amendment to the original CBA."
On what date prior to Foley signing this "amendment," was the original "CBA" distributed to the Firemen or houses? Can you or anyone you know produce a "Full , dated , copy of the original proposal " printed and presented to the members before Foley signed it ?

There has not been a new contract book produced in almost twenty years . The city is supposed to share the costs of printing, but they refuse . For whatever reason, the various executive boards have decided not to print updated copies.

Anything more you need to know, I will be glad to educate you.

Lastly i appreciate your input - I don't care if you have supported Foley - It's just many , many people tell me they never seen these things you are claiming were delivered for the members to digest - prior to Foley's signing of the "amendment" as you called it.