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Thread: Extending our failed subway

  1. #31
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Interesting read

    Downtown subway, better bus service matter more than suburban rail, Dallas says

    It's crazy the difference in perspective of suburban residents have based on the city/region they live in. In places that are growing, real growth not what's going on in Buffalo, the suburbs are demanding mass transit.

  2. #32
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    I still have my paper when the discussion of building the 33 was hot. It allowed for easy flow of traffic from the city of Buffalo out to the burbs. I don't think that was all that great for the City of Buffalo. It was good for the builders who pushed people/businesses out to the burbs. It allowed easy access to cheap farmland. The surrounding burbs might want it but then in the end they don't care what happens in the City.

  3. #33
    Member Neubs24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    I still have my paper when the discussion of building the 33 was hot. It allowed for easy flow of traffic from the city of Buffalo out to the burbs. I don't think that was all that great for the City of Buffalo. It was good for the builders who pushed people/businesses out to the burbs. It allowed easy access to cheap farmland. The surrounding burbs might want it but then in the end they don't care what happens in the City.
    The 33 also sliced through neighborhoods and destroyed Humboldt Parkway, which they are now trying to restore. Although, you have to wonder what traffic would be like without it too.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    It's crazy the difference in perspective of suburban residents have based on the city/region they live in. In places that are growing, real growth not what's going on in Buffalo, the suburbs are demanding mass transit.
    Leftie, that's why the old grumpy keeps harping on the fact that we can't be basing our decision making on models applying in other cities. This area is dying notwithstanding the crappola that's spread by the Fake News outlets locally. We need to figure out a way to bring growth back to upstate and there's only one way to do it....lower taxes and get Cuomo, Poloncarz, Zemsky, Shibley, ESDC, NFTA and the rest of the money sucking job killers out of the way. Not likely in my lifetime, my children's lifetime or the lifetime of my not yet conceived grandchildren. We're wards of NYC....paying our annual tribute and oozing thanks for the crumbs we're thrown.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neubs24 View Post
    The 33 also sliced through neighborhoods and destroyed Humboldt Parkway, which they are now trying to restore. Although, you have to wonder what traffic would be like without it too.
    Wasn't the plan to construct a series of 33-style highways radiating out of downtown with another series of 198-style highways running in semicircles further and further from downtown interconnecting/intercepting the radiating ones? I think the 990 in Amherst and some other local stretches are vestigial leftovers of the grand scheme. It would've carved up the area like a presliced Easter ham.

  6. #36
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Wasn't the plan to construct a series of 33-style highways radiating out of downtown with another series of 198-style highways running in semicircles further and further from downtown interconnecting/intercepting the radiating ones? I think the 990 in Amherst and some other local stretches are vestigial leftovers of the grand scheme. It would've carved up the area like a presliced Easter ham.
    You know who might know more about this? Greg Olma. Years ago he explained how the road construction adds to the cost of living in Erie County. Basically we have more roads than we need based on population. I might be misquoting what I thought he said.

  7. #37
    Member Neubs24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Wasn't the plan to construct a series of 33-style highways radiating out of downtown with another series of 198-style highways running in semicircles further and further from downtown interconnecting/intercepting the radiating ones? I think the 990 in Amherst and some other local stretches are vestigial leftovers of the grand scheme. It would've carved up the area like a presliced Easter ham.
    From what I've read, there was to be an "outer loop" if the dome was ever built in Lancaster. It would've connected the LaSalle Expressway (which you can still see was supposed to continue over Williams Road) with the Milestrip Expressway, and fed by the 990 and 400 as well. There's a right of way for it remaining behind the Eastern Hills Mall, if you look at it in Google Maps you can kind of visualize where it was supposed to go.

  8. #38
    Member Neubs24's Avatar
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    The Belt Expressway was the official name.


  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Wasn't the plan to construct a series of 33-style highways radiating out of downtown with another series of 198-style highways running in semicircles further and further from downtown interconnecting/intercepting the radiating ones? I think the 990 in Amherst and some other local stretches are vestigial leftovers of the grand scheme. It would've carved up the area like a presliced Easter ham.
    I was actually thinking about that recently and thanking God it never happened
    Let me articulate this for you:
    "I'm not locked in here with them. They're locked in here with me!!"
    HipKat's Blog

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    I was actually thinking about that recently and thanking God it never happened
    Right on brother!! What a disaster. Like building a train station from which the trains can only go one way. Only worse. Buffalo thinking.

  11. #41
    Member Neubs24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Right on brother!! What a disaster. Like building a train station from which the trains can only go one way. Only worse. Buffalo thinking.
    Looks like the link broke in my previous post


  12. #42
    Member HipKat's Avatar
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    Extending the 219 would have been a much better idea
    Let me articulate this for you:
    "I'm not locked in here with them. They're locked in here with me!!"
    HipKat's Blog

  13. #43
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    Just looking at the map one has to wonder what the region would look like if just the southern half of the belt expressway, from Lackawanna to Clarence, would have been built.

    This would have pushed the tolls out here and opened up development in the Williamsville/Clarance/Lancaster corridor I assume. Which in turn would have reduced traffic on Main Street and the Blue Water Tower backup.

    Honestly, it might have been a very good thing...all things considered.

  14. #44
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Doesn't sprawl end up costing current property owners in the end? The more you spread things out the more it cost to deliver services.

  15. #45
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Doesn't sprawl end up costing current property owners in the end? The more you spread things out the more it cost to deliver services.
    I agree that sprawl comes at a cost. What I was saying is sprawl was going to happen anyways. This would have simply change the way it looked.

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