Healthcare scare tactics- Intentional lies, or pure stupidity?

[Dumbfounded]

I believe a Canadian friend when he says that thier healthcare really sucks. He has to write a letter to the government to get seen for an ear infection. WTH!

Wouldn't be surprised if SOME of the allegations of the faults in Canda's health care system ARE true;These kinks (if real) can be worked out.

It would be IGNORANT to ONLY use the Canadian health care system as a measure, something to compare OUR proposed system to because the Brits, the Germans, the French and most other countries have AWESOME universal health care for their citizens.

Oh. Don't expect the media to cover the countries whose health care systems DO work and I'm including Keith Over-rated Olbermann in this scummy collection of talking heads.

Today's 'Buffalo News' Viewpoints section has a long and excellent article on the MANY (alleged) problems with Canada's health care system which again-
Does NOT represent how well or poorly all OTHER nations universal health care work.


http://www.buffalonews.com/367/story/758795.html


Canada is one country of scores with Universal health care but for media talking points and being right next to us, the faults in Canada's system make for great "fear mongering" from the far right and a handful of "liberals."

[sneakers77]

Maybe our system would be OK if the fraud was eliminated.

Its funny how nobody on either side wants to talk about fraud.

[BorderBob]

A Doctor that takes Obama care will not be allowed to take on cash paying patients.

You have a cite for that or did you get this from your talking points memo?

b.b.

[mesue]

...its a shame really, defeats any chance of meaningful reform

except, this is not meaningful reform. Meaningful reform would be to fix what is broken now. Meaningful reform would be to not include everyone in on the current dysfunction.
I wonder if congressmen and senators will have the same healthcare plan? Or, as in most cases, are exempt and will have their own healthcare plan at taxpayer expense that the taxpayers themselves will not be privy to.

[Bannister]

its noise. Every political hot potato needs noise in order to distract from the actual issue, happens on both side of the aisle.

its a shame really, defeats any chance of meaningful reform

I agree. I just hope that in this case it does not defeat any chance of reform.

[mikenold]

Where did you get this swill? I cannot believe how inaccurate virtually everything you said is. Seniors will not be "counseled" unless they want to be. And the counseling is just to discuss what they might want in terms of care when something drastic happens - like, their only future would be life as a vegetable - do you want to be resuscitated or not? It is nonsense to say that old people would be euthanized or even required to DISCUSS what they call "advance directives." These have been around in NYS for years and they give people peace of mind and, yes, CONTROL over what happens to them when they are unable to speak for themselves.

If you work for someone and have health care, the EMPLOYER can change that now - and he will be able to do so in the future. This does not put you on the public plan.

I know a lot of people on Medicare and have asked them about coverage - not one has ever been turned down for anything. But those of us who are covered under private insurance have been. Yes, I have, and so have many other people I know.

And, give me a government bureaucrat determining my coverage over someone whose bonus and promotion depends on cutting me off!

You have been misinformed. What I have written is in the bill. Here are the facts:

You will not be able to shop for or obtain private insurance if you do not have private insurance prior to the bill being passed. This is somewhat clearly stated on pgs. 16 and 17 in section 102(a)(1)(A).fficeffice" />>>
>>
No new policies will be allowed to be written by a private insurer after the public option becomes law. Also page 17.>>
>>
Every five years, the elderly will have to attend a mandatory “advanced care planning consultation” for an “explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end of life services.” The consultation will be conducted more frequently if a significant change in health condition; including diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life limiting disease, terminal diagnosis, life threatening injury or upon admission to a skilled nursing or long term care facility. In other words, if you are old, you will be consulted about what your options will be if you get sick, if healthcare would not be an option (see #7). This starts on page 425.>>
>>
Hospitals and private healthcare facilities will not be able to collect money from the government plan unless they are “public” facilities.

Also, according to the article (link:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124208383695408513.html)

Right or wrong, more doctors will close their practices to new patients, especially patients carrying lower paying insurance such as Medicaid. Some doctors will opt out of the system entirely, going "cash only." If too many doctors take this route the government could step in -- as in ffice:smarttags" />lace w:st="on">Canadalace>, for example -- to effectively outlaw private-only medical practice.

A doctor will only be able to take cash customers by dropping out of the government entirely. Only "public" facilities will be able to collect from the government plan.

So, if you want to believe what other people tell you instead of checking the facts yourself, then stick your head in the sand and suffer the consequences.

[mikenold]

You have a cite for that or did you get this from your talking points memo?

b.b.

Check my answer to left wing at 8:02 AM today! People need to read this bill. People need to tell their Representatives to read this bill. Any coverage you currently have is better than what Obama and the Democrats are offering.

[Dougles]

A few FACTS.

Medicare administrative costs are about 7 times LESS than the average private health care insurers. Where does the difference go? Profits and advertising.

Another fact for you, Obama said last week that of the 600 BILLION spent on Medicare, as much as 60 BILLION is fraud.
10% of our money is going to fraud! Now if this plan is expected to triple in size (as it is under Obama), we'll have 180 BILLION IN FRAUD. More than we spend in the middle east every year. Sounds like a plan to me

[left wing]

You have been misinformed. What I have written is in the bill. Here are the facts:

You will not be able to shop for or obtain private insurance if you do not have private insurance prior to the bill being passed. This is somewhat clearly stated on pgs. 16 and 17 in section 102(a)(1)(A).fficeffice" />>>
>>
No new policies will be allowed to be written by a private insurer after the public option becomes law. Also page 17.>>
>>
Every five years, the elderly will have to attend a mandatory “advanced care planning consultation” for an “explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end of life services.” The consultation will be conducted more frequently if a significant change in health condition; including diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life limiting disease, terminal diagnosis, life threatening injury or upon admission to a skilled nursing or long term care facility. In other words, if you are old, you will be consulted about what your options will be if you get sick, if healthcare would not be an option (see #7). This starts on page 425.>>
>>
Hospitals and private healthcare facilities will not be able to collect money from the government plan unless they are “public” facilities.

Also, according to the article (link:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124208383695408513.html)

Right or wrong, more doctors will close their practices to new patients, especially patients carrying lower paying insurance such as Medicaid. Some doctors will opt out of the system entirely, going "cash only." If too many doctors take this route the government could step in -- as in ffice:smarttags" />lace w:st="on">Canadalace>, for example -- to effectively outlaw private-only medical practice.

A doctor will only be able to take cash customers by dropping out of the government entirely. Only "public" facilities will be able to collect from the government plan.

So, if you want to believe what other people tell you instead of checking the facts yourself, then stick your head in the sand and suffer the consequences.

Ah, the Wall St. Journal! Now I understand why you are so misinformed. I note that the author is a partner in a firm that invests in health care companies. No conflict of interest there! Right.

[left wing]

Another fact for you, Obama said last week that of the 600 BILLION spent on Medicare, as much as 60 BILLION is fraud.
10% of our money is going to fraud! Now if this plan is expected to triple in size (as it is under Obama), we'll have 180 BILLION IN FRAUD. More than we spend in the middle east every year. Sounds like a plan to me

And there is no fraud from the private sector? Excuse me, my sides hurt from laughing so much. So, fix the fraud.

[Dougles]

And there is no fraud from the private sector? Excuse me, my sides hurt from laughing so much. So, fix the fraud.

Did i ever say their wasn't any fraud? NO.

My point (which you obviously missed), that anyone who wants to pump more money into a failing corrupt system is an IDIOT.

Lastly, why are DEM's in such a huge RUSH to get this passed, anyone whose read the bill knows it doesn't take effect until 2012 or 2013!

Meanwhile, many of the options the republicans have suggested, which the media or Obama Admin haven't even acknowledged, would take effect by the end of the year AND would save EVERYONE 1000's a year, not cost american's 1.5 TRILLION over the next 10 years!


To me, it is UN-AMERICAN, to be in support a program that will cost 1.5 Trillion dollars over a program that would cut cost for EVERYONE and make plans more affordable for EVERYONE and not cost any extra money!

[left wing]

Did i ever say their wasn't any fraud? NO.

My point (which you obviously missed), that anyone who wants to pump more money into a failing corrupt system is an IDIOT.

Lastly, why are DEM's in such a huge RUSH to get this passed, anyone whose read the bill knows it doesn't take effect until 2012 or 2013!

Meanwhile, many of the options the republicans have suggested, which the media or Obama Admin haven't even acknowledged, would take effect by the end of the year AND would save EVERYONE 1000's a year, not cost american's 1.5 TRILLION over the next 10 years!


To me, it is UN-AMERICAN, to be in support a program that will cost 1.5 Trillion dollars over a program that would cut cost for EVERYONE and make plans more affordable for EVERYONE and not cost any extra money!

So, it is ok to pour money into a failing, corrupt private system, but not a public one? FIX them both! The GOP proposals will cost, too, and they will not begin to solve the problem. The health care industry is not going to clean up its lucrative act of making money on the backs of sick people who arw denied coverage until they are forced to. No profitable industry ever has.

Rush to get this passed? We've beemn waiting 60 years. These guys just don't want to take the time to read the bill. It is ridiculous. They have had time. It just hasn't been a priority. Defeating reform has been.

I assume your job is secure and has health benefits and you have no chronic condictions in your family which would not be paid for by a new insurere if you changed jobs.

[Dougles]

So, it is ok to pour money into a failing, corrupt private system, but not a public one? FIX them both! The GOP proposals will cost, too, and they will not begin to solve the problem. The health care industry is not going to clean up its lucrative act of making money on the backs of sick people who arw denied coverage until they are forced to. No profitable industry ever has.
See this is where Repub's and Dem's differ. Repub's believe in providing the lowest cost plans so those who can affford them will buy them (they rest go on medicare), the DEM's just want to give HC to everyone, no matter the costs, short term or long term. The DEM idea is what NYS and CA have been doing for 30 years, do you like the state of NYS??

Rush to get this passed? We've beemn waiting 60 years. These guys just don't want to take the time to read the bill. It is ridiculous. They have had time. It just hasn't been a priority. Defeating reform has been.
60 years? medicare's been around for about 40, try again!

I assume your job is secure and has health benefits and you have no chronic condictions in your family which would not be paid for by a new insurere if you changed jobs.
You are someone correct, BUT due to NYS and FED mandates, my company and I must still pay the say COSTS that a 60 year old smoker would too!

I agree both systems need repair, but every DEM's plan has neglected that completely. Pelosi, Kennedy, Reid, Obama haven't show ONE bit of evidence on HOW or WHAT we will be saving, all they've shown is a 1.5 TRILLION price tag, doesn't sound like savings to me huh?

Additionally, how does reducing mandates and torte reform cost anything? It doesn't, it SAVES money. Yes a few people who need EXTRA services may need to pay more, but they'll be the ones using them. Why should I pay for other peoples life choices? Until people feel the tru costs of smoking and being unhealthy, they will not change!

If you weighed 300lbs and didn't have to pay much to get your stomach stapled, do you think you'd change your habits afterwards? NO, and 60% of people don't. However, if you have to pay $50K to get you stomach stapled do you think you'd change your habits?? HELL YES!!!

[Save Us]

So, it is ok to pour money into a failing, corrupt private system, but not a public one? FIX them both! The GOP proposals will cost, too, and they will not begin to solve the problem. The health care industry is not going to clean up its lucrative act of making money on the backs of sick people who arw denied coverage until they are forced to. No profitable industry ever has.

Rush to get this passed? We've beemn waiting 60 years. These guys just don't want to take the time to read the bill. It is ridiculous. They have had time. It just hasn't been a priority. Defeating reform has been.

I assume your job is secure and has health benefits and you have no chronic condictions in your family which would not be paid for by a new insurere if you changed jobs.

What's your position on insuring smokers, obese individuals, ie. folks that made some poor choices?
Obviously as we proceed to socialized medicine will everyone be insurable. then the cost of such may be much higher than just mortgaging my grandkid's future, it may go many many generations.



just wondering.

[WNYresident]

Then, how come one of the first statements I keep hearing is "we like our current coverage?"

BEcause for the most part people do. THey just complain about the costs. Im my opinion we are being ripped. Time is only worth so much. A pill is only worth so much. WHy is it that a pill in canada cost less than here? SOmething is causing the prices difference even if it's greed.

Unless something is written out to what the new health care is your current plan is what you want. WOuld you just switch because someone told you it will be better but give you no details? Any congress person who votes without reading or understanding what they are voting on should be thrown out of office.