A sales tax-free downtown?

A sales tax-free downtown? Rocco Termini pushing for it

Jan 27, 2016, 3:05pm EST

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Could a large portion of downtown Buffalo be a “sales tax free zone” for retailers?
At least one prominent business leader thinks so.

Rocco Termini, a developer with a vast number of downtown holdings in his portfolio, has suggested that a sales tax free zone in downtown might be enough to help encourage more retailers to open their doors in the central business district.

“This is the time to do it,” Termini said.

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http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/n...i-pushing.html



Tony's opinion. It is never the right time to put other businesses at a disadvantage in a small geographical area.

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Eliminating all state and Erie County sales taxes, which adds 8.75 percent to all retail transactions, may be enough of an incentive to encourage retail development, according to Termini.
“We need to start our focus on developing downtown retail,” he said.


Dropping the sales tax is not a new subject. Others including then-Erie County Executive Joel Giambra pushed for support for similar measures but never gained significant traction in Albany and Erie County Hall.


“Nothing in the past has worked,” Termini said.

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It is also enough incentive to cause surrounding businesses to lose business by not being in that tax free zone.

How would you like to be a small retailer who invested $200,000 to sell your "widets". You now have someone opening up their "widet" retail shop in that tax free zone. Instantly you are at a 8.75% disadvantage.

I heard that Mr Termini is a good guy but in the end I don't care if fills the vacant property he owns by making the playing field unfair to other retailers. That is what it's about. If he can't fill the vacant buildings he buys or owns he can't make money.

Here is an idea. He should offer discounted rents. Very discounted. I don't care if he loses money on his development investments. Just as he doesn't care that other people who invested in their businesses might lose money because of the 8.75% disadvantage they would have. Fair enough?

Let us start with baby steps. Get rid of the 1% "temporary" sales tax in Erie County. Help everyone a little instead of a select few.

Should retail businesses in downtown Buffalo be exempt from charging sales tax?

Posted by Sergio Rodriguez on Thursday, January 28, 2016

Error posting in wrong thread

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Originally Posted by WNYresident

Tony's opinion. It is never the right time to put other businesses at a disadvantage in a small geographical area.

It is also enough incentive to cause surrounding businesses to lose business by not being in that tax free zone.

How would you like to be a small retailer who invested $200,000 to sell your "widets". You now have someone opening up their "widet" retail shop in that tax free zone. Instantly you are at a 8.75% disadvantage.

I heard that Mr Termini is a good guy but in the end I don't care if fills the vacant property he owns by making the playing field unfair to other retailers. That is what it's about. If he can't fill the vacant buildings he buys or owns he can't make money.

Here is an idea. He should offer discounted rents. Very discounted. I don't care if he loses money on his development investments. Just as he doesn't care that other people who invested in their businesses might lose money because of the 8.75% disadvantage they would have. Fair enough?

Let us start with baby steps. Get rid of the 1% "temporary" sales tax in Erie County. Help everyone a little instead of a select few.

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Res, I heard this on the news the other night and my very first thought was that You were going to be annoyed. :) A few years ago I would have supported something like this to boost downtown, but I wouldn't support it anymore. Like you said, no matter where you draw the circle, there will be someone outside that circle that would be unfairly excluded.

My other thought is that govts generally want to tax things that would be paid by non-residents who aren't as sensitive to taxes that are just temporary to them. That's why hotels often have such high taxes on them. So now that were opening all these hotels and restaurants downtown that cater more and more to people from outside WNY, it's not really the time to subsidize them with specially lowered taxes that the rest of residents would still need to pay.

Like you said, let's start by cutting the 4.75% county tax across the board. That 30-year old "temporary" tax would be a great place to start.

Holy crap. I thought you would have supported the idea saying "Well there is nothing stopping you from locating in the tax free zone".

Personally I don't like IDA's that basically re-arrange where businesses are located in Erie County. That isn't growth. That is just moving a business from one local location to another one. OH yeah.. while a group of "ida" employees get to skim a cut for themselves doing the deal. No deals no paychecks. Bigger the incentive package the more they make. Lot of billable hours for the lawyers involved.

If we had one Erie County IDA that only focused on pulling non competing businesses into Erie County I could live with that. Non competing means.... A business that doesn't directly compete with existing businesses. IE: retail, restaurants, hotels and stuff like that would basically compete with existing businesses. A manufacturing plant that makes a product and ships it out doesn't really compete with local businesses. SolarCity is NOT what I mean. It would be fine if the state didn't pay to have it built. That is just pure BS. If they were given only tax incentives and even discounts on power I could live with it.

Our latest temporary sales tax if it were a child would be entering 5th grade already. But you find acceptable a legislative majority leader who has done nothing to change that.

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Originally Posted by dtwarren

Our latest temporary sales tax if it were a child would be entering 5th grade already. But you find acceptable a legislative majority leader who has done nothing to change that.

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Your funny. Just because you don't like Ralph and Joe doesn't valid the comment you made. Besides Joe there are other Legislators that can make an effort also.

I would have no issue with seeing it disappear. If the current budget couldn't be met because of the lower revenue we can easily shift all employees included all elected officials to Obamacare and see immediate savings. Or just salary cuts if needed. No more BS. All most elected officials seem to do is talk while mostly accomplishing very little in the favor or property/business owners.

Erie County is still losing population and replacing some of the loss with refugees or anyone that requires government assistance is not in the best interest of business/property owners.

Again you are talking out of your ass, Obamacare (The Exchange) is not available to employees of employers who have over 50 FTE. Also if change does not start with the leader where does it start?

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Originally Posted by dtwarren

Again you are talking out of your ass, Obamacare (The Exchange) is not available to employees of employers who have over 50 FTE. Also if change does not start with the leader where does it start?

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Start anywhere you can DT.

I'm not talking out of my butt. I'm referencing this website

https://www.sba.gov/content/employer...more-employees

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Employer Shared Responsibility Provisions

Employers with 50 or more full-time employees, including full-time equivalents, that do not offer health insurance to their full-time employees (those working 30+ hours/week) and their dependents, or that offer coverage that is not affordable or that does not provide minimum value, may be required to pay an assessment if at least one of their full-time employees receives a premium tax credit to purchase coverage in the new individual Marketplace. Refer to the IRS’s ALE Information Center for the latest information on the Employer Shared Responsibility rules.

Fewer than 50 employees? Firms of this size are generally not affected by the Employer Shared Responsibility rules and do not have to pay an assessment if their full-time employees receive premium tax credits in the Marketplace.

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So how much is the assessment (Employer Shared Responsibility) cost?

Is it less that providing current health care packages?

If so lets get the ball rolling the moment any current contract is over with. It is not the property/business owners fault we had incompetent people negotiating in our behalf.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1603/...51a15239_b.jpg

Good thing that the tax caps were put in place because we would just continually hear excuse why nothing changes.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1591/...96cd2e43_z.jpg


"Near-zero growth in tax cap adds to district's hardships"

That sentence is misleading.

This is more accurate.

"Unsustainable labor contracts negotiated by incompetent people adds to district's hardships". They should also include that some districts are losing population because of poor leadership at the town level. Less population less revenue. First example that comes to mind is how many people have fled Cheektowaga over the last 10 years. DT? How is the population growth going in West Seneca?

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1715/...9c6493d9_c.jpg


I think it's not very nice that a group of people who make good money will sacrifice other people's jobs so that they can continue to receive unsustainable compensation packages. 71 people lost their positions because of the greed of the remaining employees.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1681/...89387d2e_c.jpg

"Basically, we can't raise taxes" Cheeotwaga Central School board President Renee M. Wilson said. "Hopefully there won't be any staff reductions but that's not anything we can promise".

Think out of the box Renee. Start reviewing Obamacare and it may be time salaries topped out and salary cuts are in order.



Now back to this silly idea about a sales tax free zone.

If this idea actually gains any traction is there any legal way a group of business owners can stop it?

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It is not the property/business owners fault we had incompetent people negotiating in our behalf.

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Yes. Yes it is our fault. We voted them in and continue to do so. Here in West Seneca we re-elected a councilman and supervisor that have raised taxes every single year they were in office and I am sure it will continue.

There are some signs of sanity for example the Springville voters voting down the proposed taj mahal that was supported by their school board: http://www.springvillegi.org/board_e...subpage=936629

Our school enrollment has gone down since the baby boomers went through but for the most part we have just started to close some of these un-needed schools and get them back on the tax roll.

I think we are top heavy in government that we need to trim before we trim the rank and file either in number or the terms and conditions of their employment.

We get the government we chose and floating silver bullet ideas that will not work will not get us to where we need to be.

This sales tax free zone is nothing more than a money grab by a businessman that want taxpayers to subsidize his business interests. I am against this as it applies to Indian Land and this is no different.

We all must bear the tax burden equally while at the same time reducing that tax burden overall.

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Originally Posted by WNYresident

Holy crap. I thought you would have supported the idea saying "Well there is nothing stopping you from locating in the tax free zone".

Personally I don't like IDA's that basically re-arrange where businesses are located in Erie County. That isn't growth. That is just moving a business from one local location to another one. OH yeah.. while a group of "ida" employees get to skim a cut for themselves doing the deal. No deals no paychecks. Bigger the incentive package the more they make. Lot of billable hours for the lawyers involved.

If we had one Erie County IDA that only focused on pulling non competing businesses into Erie County I could live with that. Non competing means.... A business that doesn't directly compete with existing businesses. IE: retail, restaurants, hotels and stuff like that would basically compete with existing businesses. A manufacturing plant that makes a product and ships it out doesn't really compete with local businesses. SolarCity is NOT what I mean. It would be fine if the state didn't pay to have it built. That is just pure BS. If they were given only tax incentives and even discounts on power I could live with it.

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We have one Erie County IDA. It is the least effective, least efficient IDA in Erie County and has been almost since the day IDA's were legalized. The notion that local IDA's merely relocate local businesses is wrong. (well, except for ECIDA which laid out millions of tax dollars so Jacobs could move his business empire 5 blocks in downtown Buffalo.) Eg, the Geico project in Amherst, which anchors the most significant financial center in western NY was a cooperative effort of the Amherst IDA, town of Tonawanda, NYS...everybody BUT the ECIDA which played no role in the effort. The ECIDA is nothing but a haven for the usual coterie of Democrat coat holders and boot licks. If you disagree feel free to look at the makeup of its board which is required by law.

By the way, thanks to Mr Termini for inadvertently confirming that all the crappola being spewed by the fish wrap and the Democratic pr operation known locally as Ch 2 News about the return of business to downtown is just that, crappola. Otherwise we wouldn't need a tax free zone in the city to bring in business. I know...Tops is building a grocery store. I'll be interested to see how long it lasts. Tops is going to have raise prices across its footprint to offset the losses it will incur at its new location just to offset the effect of the ol' five finger discount program of which city dwellers are so fond.

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Originally Posted by dtwarren

Yes. Yes it is our fault. We voted them in and continue to do so. Here in West Seneca we re-elected a councilman and supervisor that have raised taxes every single year they were in office and I am sure it will continue.

There are some signs of sanity for example the Springville voters voting down the proposed taj mahal that was supported by their school board: http://www.springvillegi.org/board_e...subpage=936629

Our school enrollment has gone down since the baby boomers went through but for the most part we have just started to close some of these un-needed schools and get them back on the tax roll.

I think we are top heavy in government that we need to trim before we trim the rank and file either in number or the terms and conditions of their employment.

We get the government we chose and floating silver bullet ideas that will not work will not get us to where we need to be.

This sales tax free zone is nothing more than a money grab by a businessman that want taxpayers to subsidize his business interests. I am against this as it applies to Indian Land and this is no different.

We all must bear the tax burden equally while at the same time reducing that tax burden overall.

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I agree....but I'd also like to see some leadership with a vision for Buffalo based on something other than re-creating the downtown of the 1960's or mimicking other CBD's.

Let's consider some possibilities. One of my favorites is a Buffalo in which the dilapidated housing and deteriorated infrastructure is removed then replaced with farms. The CBD becomes a unique recreational residential community and tourists attraction. Ironically, a stadium on the waterfront now looks like the existing stadium did hen it was first built, surrounded by farmland (at least on 3 sides.) The existing business and government activities are dispersed to the outer ring suburbs. Basically we flip 200 years of evolutionary development on its head, all of which is made possible by the tech of the 21st century. It also facilitates retirement and removal of aging infrastructure. And most importantly, it isn't another "Baltimore waterfront." But alas, the economic and political leaders would rather keep trying to recreate the 1960's. Let's do something different, let's take Buffalo back to the 1860's! At least insofar as land use is considered.

nogods, I think you're on to something. I know I would support plowing under the City of Buffalo. The rest of the taxpayers in NYS would be spared the expense of supporting its failed school system.

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Originally Posted by dtwarren

There are some signs of sanity for example the Springville voters voting down the proposed taj mahal that was supported by their school board: http://www.springvillegi.org/board_e...subpage=936629

Our school enrollment has gone down since the baby boomers went through but for the most part we have just started to close some of these un-needed schools and get them back on the tax roll.

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Honestly, and this comes from a guy who hates big government, but why wouldn't you want schools to be a Taj Mahal?

Close and consolidate schools that are not needed. Consolidate school districts. Sell those parcels to put back on the rolls. Fix the pension and health care costs. Cut down on excessive administration costs (see. consolidation) over what schools are needed. But why would you want to hold back on one of the major factors that people consider when buying a home?

The cheaper property taxes argument has proven to not really matter. Just look at the taxes in Amherst, better put Williamsville schools, compared to other places. People pay for quality things.

If you don't think parents are not into 'status' when they decide things you're greatly mistaken.

Below is a map of the school districts in Erie County. While I think the best plan for Buffalo is to break up into districts...I think some of the other ones should consolidate.

Why can't Eden, North Collins and Springville consolidate into a single district? That district would have around 4,800 students. Do they really need all of that overhead?

http://www.erie.gov/graphics/schools.gif

a city specific tax being waived city wide would be fine
but waiving the county level tax just within the city is wrong and IMO is a violation of the idea behind equal protection. If they want to waive the county sales tax it needs to be waived county wide for everyone