Sam Brownback and the "Shot of adrenaline to the heart of the Kansas economy"

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Originally Posted by FMD

Arglebargle

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Amazing the creatures who can declare other people "American haters".

1. Of course, Native Americans pay federal income and capital gains taxes. They are exempt from some other taxes, and those living on Reservations are generally exempt from paying state taxes while on that land. It's a myth to suggest that they don't pay taxes, and anyone propagating it is clearly too much of a cretin to Google it.

2. There's a gun-clinging rant in there, apropos of nothing. Good work, dummy. Always crowbar that in.

3. Private enterprise built the communications system? Not the internet, which was originally a government program. Not satellite link-ups of telephone calls, which is thanks to government intervention. Every wireless frequency is publicly owned, and managed through the FCC. You need a federal license for permission to run a radio or TV station. Our cellphone system was built thanks to government management, intervention, and stewardship over the publicly held airwaves. From this article:

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Alexander Hamilton’s federally chartered Bank of the United States; the Whig “internal improvements” of the early Republic; the transcontinental railroad; the land-grant colleges; the Interstate Highway System; the Internet and other government-backed transportation, communications and education endeavors aren’t just examples of “government spending” long supported by both parties. They have proved essential to the creation of thousands of small enterprises.

All major energy sources have received government help in one form or another, as have aviation, biotech, real estate and scores of other industries. Even companies that don’t get direct assistance from the federal government receive plenty of downstream benefits through the tax code.

We all should know that business can’t thrive without an educated workforce and the fair application of the rule of law. Even regulation -- the bogeyman of conservative business interests -- is a necessary condition of a stable business culture. The countries with the least regulation have the most corruption, and vice versa.

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4. Of course, Linda D has it right. If you don't want to help pay for a first world nation, infrastructure, and economy, then you should move to a second or third world nation like, say, Mexico or Somalia. There are myriad lawless hellholes just waiting for the well-armed and poorly educated to come and build little fiefdoms with cheap labor and poor services.

Used to be conservatives were sane and rational, and could posit a suggestion or policy point that was rational and somewhat flexible. Goldwater laid the foundation of the modern-day conservative movement, and it's only gotten worse since the 80s. Now, they tell you to STFU or urge you to go and die.

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Originally Posted by buffalopundit

Amazing the creatures who can declare other people "American haters".

1. Of course, Native Americans pay federal income and capital gains taxes. They are exempt from some other taxes, and those living on Reservations are generally exempt from paying state taxes while on that land. It's a myth to suggest that they don't pay taxes, and anyone propagating it is clearly too much of a cretin to Google it.

2. There's a gun-clinging rant in there, apropos of nothing. Good work, dummy. Always crowbar that in.

3. Private enterprise built the communications system? Not the internet, which was originally a government program. Not satellite link-ups of telephone calls, which is thanks to government intervention. Every wireless frequency is publicly owned, and managed through the FCC. You need a federal license for permission to run a radio or TV station. Our cellphone system was built thanks to government management, intervention, and stewardship over the publicly held airwaves. From this article:



4. Of course, Linda D has it right. If you don't want to help pay for a first world nation, infrastructure, and economy, then you should move to a second or third world nation like, say, Mexico or Somalia. There are myriad lawless hellholes just waiting for the well-armed and poorly educated to come and build little fiefdoms with cheap labor and poor services.

Used to be conservatives were sane and rational, and could posit a suggestion or policy point that was rational and somewhat flexible. Goldwater laid the foundation of the modern-day conservative movement, and it's only gotten worse since the 80s. Now, they tell you to STFU or urge you to go and die.

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At least Goldwater understood the need to keep religion out of politics and that the environment required protection from companies and municipalities that were destroying it. He also believed that Abortion was a personal choice and should not involve the government.

I could live with a Barry Goldwater today.

Except for one GLARING problem the left and the libs fail to grasp....


Our taxes increase; our benefits decrease.

you keep talking about infrastructure... our infrstructure is no longer 'the best in the world' Its falling apart and the Govt has zero interest in fixing it.

while the Govt did first build the internet, it was MASSIVE private investment that has allowed the expansion of the internet.

In WNY Verizon - a non govt entity, owns most, if not all the telephone lines.

And the federal income tax, that was only instituted during times of war, now its every year. If the federal govt wasnt so bloated we wouldnt 'need' it.

the issue at hand here is when do you people, finally say enough is enough when it comes to govt spending?

Outside the mob, which is considered a dangerous, and criminal enterprise, only the Govt uses violence, and the threat of death to coerce people to pony up their money to the govt.

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Originally Posted by FMD

Except for one GLARING problem the left and the libs fail to grasp....


Our taxes increase; our benefits decrease.

you keep talking about infrastructure... our infrstructure is no longer 'the best in the world' Its falling apart and the Govt has zero interest in fixing it.

while the Govt did first build the internet, it was MASSIVE private investment that has allowed the expansion of the internet.

In WNY Verizon - a non govt entity, owns most, if not all the telephone lines.

And the federal income tax, that was only instituted during times of war, now its every year. If the federal govt wasnt so bloated we wouldnt 'need' it.

the issue at hand here is when do you people, finally say enough is enough when it comes to govt spending?

Outside the mob, which is considered a dangerous, and criminal enterprise, only the Govt uses violence, and the threat of death to coerce people to pony up their money to the govt.

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See, here you go. Exhibit A. You actually wrote some things here that were pretty on-point. I agree that our infrastructure is "falling apart" and that government has zero interest in fixing it. (I would amend that to say that our infrastructure was never the best in the world, and that government likely has some interest in fixing it, but can't get out of its own way to do it). If we were smart in this country, we'd have spent a little more to build our roads and bridges to make them sturdier and less in need of constant maintenance. Go drive on a German Autobahn and you'll see what I mean.

Taxes increase? Not federal taxes. There is not a person in America who is now paying more in taxes than they did or would have in, say, 2000 or 1990 or 1980 or 1970 or 1960 etc. Our tax rates are at historic lows, at least federally. State tax rates are trickier because there are so many variations and taxing entities. Do you get fewer services? I guess it depends on where you live and the degree to which that government believes in good service for taxpayer money. In Kansas, they cut taxes and not only have services been abandoned, but the cuts didn't result in the promised "trickle down" economic effect in the private sector.

I wasn't aware of the mob coercing people to pony up money to the government, but anti-tax libertarian types love to bring up the "threats" and "violence" nonsense to whine about tax evasion. I'm sure you're no doubt aware of the quip about taxes that Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes coined long ago, but it's true that taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society. I'm not aware of the "threat of death" or "violence" to "coerce" me to pay my taxes, but then again I pay my taxes because it's the law. Your logic would justify the commission of any crime because the big bad government sits there, waiting to kill you if you decide to go through with it. It's nonsensical hyperbole, but it sounds kind of cool and makes you feel like a victim. I get it.
In any event, the issue is not when people say enough is enough when it comes to spending. The issue in THIS thread is to underscore the fact that government plays an inseparable role in the economy, and that cuts in taxes and services do not always bring about the Reaganist panacea that the right promises. Indeed, over the last 30+ years, the trickle-down, supply-side faith has been proven time and time again to be completely false. Not just false, but deliberately harmful to the middle class and regular working folks, all to the great benefit of the very wealthy who happen to not coincidentally help fund the re-elections campaigns of the politicians who promote this failed theory.

And when I say failed theory, I mean exactly that - supply-side, Reaganomics, and trickle-down are as big a failure and fraud as Marxism-Leninism. The Soviets kept the latter going for 70+ years through totalitarianism. What's our excuse for maintaining the former, after all these years?

Ah,,, where to start,,

Firstly any country that is 17 trillion dollars in debt is not truly well off, rich, or first world. It's called living a delusion based on borrowed credit. Reagan was the one that said something to the effect of giving the illusion of prosperity by writing bad checks.

Secondly, real incomes have been stagnant. You would be better off with regard to purchasing power of your money if you were in the 60's-70's. You can thank the Fed and QE for more of that story

Thirdly, Government cannot grow at the rate it does and still expect to be solvent. We are not .....solvent. Rome ran into this same problem, Our government is going to find out Bread and circus aren't going to cut it. You can tax the crap out of the evil rich people but that's not going to balance your books.

A prime directive of government should be to guide fair commerce and allow free markets to do what they do, and not grow to the extend that it's expenditures mirror it's GDP. ESPECIALLY when you are in debt. That seems to be the biggest problem, not Syria, or abducted nigerian girls, or Ukraine, etc.

Anytime I hear somebody say that the government should do this or that, I simply remind them that we're broke, actually worse than broke,

The first item of business other than protecting our border ( a government function) should be concentrated on DELEVERAGING our debt. Period. There are more people now than ever on public assistance, the only mob or insurrection that we have to fear is when those benefits are cut. That song and dance has been played out before.

I am all ears for anyone to provide a feasible solution to our problem..it starts with realizing we are dead broke.

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I am all ears for anyone to provide a feasible solution to our problem..it starts with realizing we are dead broke.

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We start at the bottom. That is where the support starts for political parties. Town board, Village boards and city councils etc...