As a tax base in business versus residential, how much revenue was being pulled from the mills when they were booming?
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As a tax base in business versus residential, how much revenue was being pulled from the mills when they were booming?
Basing this only on memory, something like 90% of Lackawanna's taxes (in 1970) comes to mind. To compare: in 1950, the largest taxpayer in Buffalo was the New York Central Railroad - but I don't know what percentage they paid.
Did they consume 90% of the needed services?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chet Kowal
Yeah they did. The city was was filthy with soot from the mill, it smelled up all along Route 5, it destroyed Smokes Creek, and put Mercury and other industrial solids into Lake Erie. The owners of the plant fulfilled the Libertarian promise that business does only good and will do nothing to devalue their property.Quote:
Originally Posted by WNYresident
Because of Bethlehems Libertarian guardianship of it's land, the plant is gone, the land is useless, and no good old American businessman will invest his money in a property that another good old American business destroyed for our lifetime and more. :mad:
What's your point?
The Democrat Party in Lackawanna at this time was bought and paid for by Bethlehem Steel. Most of the pollution at this time was not illegal. Over the years Bethlehem Steel spent billions in trying to clean up and protect the environment but the government kept changing the standards. This may be one of many reasons heavy industry left this country and went to a country where their are no environmental laws. All factory's in WNY were also polluting the environment but they created jobs. Do you have something against jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikewrona
Are you driving a car? If so you are destroying our environment. Will you stop driving a car?
:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Lackawanna
Mr Lackawanna Steeler - If you want to talk about all the other companies that pollute start another thread. The discussion here is about Bethlehem Steel. You must have been one of those guys who held a job at the Plant, DPW, and Fire Department all at the same time, sleeping while at two of them (most likely the night shift at Bethlehem).
Don't blame environmental regulations as Bethlehem problem. The problem is cyanide, mercury, Slag, limestone and iron ore impurities, Sulfur dioxide, hydrogen sulfide and other waste products that are in the ground, creek, and water were put there by Bethlehem Steel.
Who do you think should be cleaning that up?
Since you raised the question, what's the practical non-polluting alternative to the car for personal transportation?:p
OK. Now isn't part of the truth something like American steel got to be the most expensive in the world, partly due to the unuinized steel workers? So steel was imported. True or no?Quote:
Originally Posted by mikewrona
On the cleanup of Bethlehem Steel your question is moot. Bethlehem Steel is bankrupt, long gone and not here anymore. Lets get the new owners who occupy the land now to pay for the cleanup.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikewrona
On the alternative nonpolluting personal transportation. We should all use bicycles.
:)
Their are many reasons for the demise of the American Steel industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by speaker
1 Labor cost
2 Taxes
3 Fringe Benefits
4 Political:
At the time when I worked their, Bethlehem Steel (Lackawanna Plant) was exporting by boat, raw materials to Japan.
Looks like items 1 to 3 could also apply to Buffalo and Erie County.
The same thing that happened to the American Steel industry will happen to the American Auto industry.
:)
Another reason was quality. In the early 80s we couldn't get a decent American casting at any price (high rejection and scrap rates), and we were forced to purchase more expensive imported castings. I would say that quality and long delays between order and delivery from US compaqnies drove many manufacturers to foreign suppliers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Bethlehem Steel did have quality control dept. Unfortunately the bean counters by now had taken over control of the company. All that mattered was the tonnage out the door. The quality of the product was not important. Bethelehem Steel lost a lot of customers, some who never came back.
Lets not blame one party for the failure of US industry, when there are many such as:
1) Wall Street demanding increasing profits and dividends in ever shorter reporting periods....forcing companies to delay investments in capital equipment, research and development to prop up short term profits
2) Unions demanding increasing profits be redirected to hiring, restricted labor rules, increased pay, healthcare and retirement forcing companies to delay investment in capital equipment, research and development to prevent strikes.
3) 1970s oil embargo and the last 50 years of not having an energy policy placed enormous risk on energy intensive industries to the point where investments in new plants could not be made in the US. The risk of energy over a 30-50 horizon was to high
4) Increasing environmental legislations
5) in the 1950s strikes in US steel production crippled not just the steel mills but any industry dependent on steel...the entire economy was held hostage forcing its solution onto the president. The long term result was that the US liften barriers to the importation of steel from newer steel mills in Asia, Europe and South America.
6) and of course today we have yet another enemy of US industry. Currency and tax law manipulation by foreign countries to undervalue their currency and to subsidize export goods...while US tax law over-values US currency and subsidizes their imports by exempting foreign goods from payroll taxes for things such as healthcare, retirement, etc. Every other developed nation taxes imports to pay for healthcare, education and retirement.
So its not just failures of Buffalo management....there is a much bigger picture and until we address what is holding back US industry we are in mortal danger of being defenseless and being unable to compete in the global economy.