Pat Buchanan: Unrepentent Hitler Sympathizer?

[raoul duke]

Arguably, yes (http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20090901/cm_uc_crpbux/op_3311160).

Wow. Even considering the other authoritarian crap Uncle Pat normally spews.

My only comment, qualified only by my amateurish history-buff-wanna-be self: Generalplan Ost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost).

Will his followers/readers take the leap and sympathize with a historically revised/sodomized record of Hitler's Nazi Germany and assign it victim-hood? (Aside from SpeakupWNY's resident white-nationalist/proto-fascist SockPuppet, I mean. . . Obviously.)

[DomesticatedFeminist]

Is he saying that churchill and europe should have supported hitler because the german's where killing communist?

[ILOVEDNY]

Yesterday was the 70th anniversary of the German/Soviet invasion of Poland which began WWII.
So of course Pat Buchanan pens an column explaining that this wasn't really Hitler's fault since he didn't really want war.

Buchanan paints Hitler as some kind of justified force, that was somehow pushed into invading Poland.

Look: if Hitler didn't want war, he could simply have refrained from signing the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, plotting with the Soviet Union to divide Poland, amassing German forces on the Polish border, creating fake border incidents, and actually, you know, invading Poland

When Buckley called Buchanan an anti-Semite back in the 90's, I was initially skeptical, but after reading and seeing what he's written over the years, I've come to basically the same conclusion.

[raoul duke]

Yesterday was the 70th anniversary of the German/Soviet invasion of Poland which began WWII.
So of course Pat Buchanan pens an column explaining that this wasn't really Hitler's fault since he didn't really want war.

Buchanan paints Hitler as some kind of justified force, that was somehow pushed into invading Poland.

Look: if Hitler didn't want war, he could simply have refrained from signing the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, plotting with the Soviet Union to divide Poland, amassing German forces on the Polish border, creating fake border incidents, and actually, you know, invading Poland

When Buckley called Buchanan an anti-Semite back in the 90's, I was initially skeptical, but after reading and seeing what he's written over the years, I've come to basically the same conclusion.
Don't you get it? Hitler is the victim here.

I know we don't see eye-to-eye on much, but that was very well said, in my opinion. Although, I personally would not stop at Buckley's charge of "anti-Semite." Paddy is an obvious xenophobe, sexist, bigot and racist. He's just masterful at masking it - until now, apparently.

C'mon Pat Buchanan fans, defend yer d00dz argument for sympathy towards Hitler's Third Reich and it's unfortunate stumble into World War II - thanks to the Brits and the Pols, ironically. By Pat B.'s argument, Hitler had something cool going on until the West and it's tactical alliance with Russia (and France's agreement with Poland) forced his hand and started the second world war.

But whatevs, lebensraum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum).

[raoul duke]

Is he saying that churchill and europe should have supported hitler because the german's where killing communist?
Maybe. But his thesis seems to be that Russia and the western alliances forced Hitler's hand in the matter and thus became ultimately responsible for WWII and it's appurtenant atrocities. Hitler is, in a thoroughly twisted way, the victim in Patty B's little screed.

[Jim Ostrowski]

Much of what we learn about history is bull.

That's why revisionist history is important. Since government schools turn their court history into a quasi-religion, revisionists usually get smeared. Can I suggest rebutting their arguments and not smearing them?

[Jim Ostrowski]

World War II was the continuation of and the result of, World War I. That "cold monster," The State just needed to grow a new generation of cannon fodder. Hence, the 20 year respite.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

World War II was the continuation of and the result of, World War I. That "cold monster," The State just needed to grow a new generation of cannon fodder. Hence, the 20 year respite.

You are right and you are wrong. It is a fact that hitler and mussolini received funding from capitalist because they killed communist. That added fuel to the fire so to speak.

Between world war 1 and 2, there was a paranoia of communist, particular in eastern europe (obviously) because there was oil in that region. Look up what was going on in siberia at the time.

It was the reds vs the whites. The reds where winning because the citizens wanted them. All the countries that were "defeated" by the red army where because the citizens of that country helped. The rich and powerful where afraid of the masses. That's why the usa pushed the red scare so much, because the rich and powerful were scared.

BTW jim they still taught communism and socialism are evil in schools or at least they did with in the last ten years.

What they don't teach is that no country can achieve communism with out citizen support. That's why the cold war tactics where pushed so much. "duck under your desk or else you will die" type stuff was just dumb."

[DomesticatedFeminist]

Maybe. But his thesis seems to be that Russia and the western alliances forced Hitler's hand in the matter and thus became ultimately responsible for WWII and it's appurtenant atrocities. Hitler is, in a thoroughly twisted way, the victim in Patty B's little screed.

Wow pat buchanan is efed up.

Hitler received funding through western alliances. But financial support didn't cause the genocide.

[Jim Ostrowski]

I wouldn't call fear of communism between the wars paranoid, given how many people the bastards slaughtered.

Where do you think Hitler got the idea for concentration camps?

[Jim Ostrowski]

How could a socialist institution like a government school teach that socialism is evil?

[DomesticatedFeminist]

How could a socialist institution like a government school teach that socialism is evil?

I don't know I went to private school, however they still teach to state standards.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

I wouldn't call fear of communism between the wars paranoid, given how many people the bastards slaughtered.

Where do you think Hitler got the idea for concentration camps?

I think getting paranoid over trotsky in italy and spain was stupid. Trotsky wasn't like stalin and lennin. purhaps you should read his writings and speeches.

[Save Us]

What is saddly ironic is that the communists the Axis were trying to "defeat" killed more people than anyone, of their own nationals no less.

Did a good job of using nazi concentration camps in the east for their own. BTW I have personally been there read the placcards etc. Systematic starvation of POW's ,,

Everyone at some point in History was a bastard. In keeping with the thread.. Duke is right Buchanan is effed up.


I await Duke's assertion that my statements are incorrect.

[Sock Puppet]

Poland instigated the start of WWII, but the the Treaty of Versailles and their makers were ultimately responsible for WWII.

Stalin was 10x the tyrant as Hitler, even if you believe the official version of the Holohoax.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

Poland instigated the start of WWII, but the the Treaty of Versailles and their makers were ultimately responsible for WWII.

Stalin was 10x the tyrant as Hitler, even if you believe the official version of the Holohoax.

The holocaust did happen, however there weren't just jewish causalities. (Romanis) Gypsys where almost wiped out.

Also there is no denying stalin's tyrant. If trotsky wasn't chased off, we may have seen different history. Trotsky called stalin out for what he was.

[Save Us]

Stalin was 10x the tyrant as Hitler, even if you believe the official version of the Holohoax.

Correct! the nazis just engineered it to perfection

Are you saying that the holocaust was a hoax? You lost me on that one.

Yeah Stalin leads the modern world with murder, Pol Pot is also somewhere in the top 5

[Sock Puppet]

I'm not going to get into the historical revisionist talking points that challenge the holohoax, but i would simply like to propose this question...

How can a person be sure that a historical event is accurately depicted, if when an inquiry into the event comes up with an alternate outcome, it would result in the investigator doing time in jail?

do you understand my question?

[DomesticatedFeminist]

I'm not going to get into the historical revisionist talking points that challenge the holohoax, but i would simply like to propose this question...

How can a person be sure that a historical event is accurately depicted, if when an inquiry into the event comes up with an alternate outcome, it would result in the investigator doing time in jail?

do you understand my question?

I do understand, I don't think people get sent to jail over it. At least I haven't heard about that. I do recall hearing about that controversy with the German bishop and Pope benedict getting crap from israel for allowing the bishop back.

BUT there are plenty of survivors around to say what happened to them.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

Yeah Stalin leads the modern world with murder, Pol Pot is also somewhere in the top 5

Right stalin was awful. Trotsky was a bit different.

[Sock Puppet]

I do understand, I don't think people get sent to jail over it. At least I haven't heard about that. I do recall hearing about that controversy with the German bishop and Pope benedict getting crap from israel for allowing the bishop back.
On February 5, 2003, Ernst Zündel was detained by U.S. local police and deported to Canada, where he was detained for two years on a Security Certificate for being a foreign national alleged to be a threat to national security pending a court decision on the validity of the certificate. Once the certificate was upheld and Zündel was determined to be a national security risk he was deported to Germany and tried in the state court of Mannheim on outstanding charges of incitement for Holocaust denial dating from the early 1990s. On February 15, 2007, he was convicted and sentenced to the maximum term of five years in prison.[8] He is scheduled to be released on March 7, 2010.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Z%C3%BCndel

On 11 November 2005, the Austrian police in the southern state of Styria, acting under a 1989 warrant, arrested Irving. Four days later, he was charged by state prosecutors with the speech crime of "trivialising the Holocaust". His application for bail was denied on the grounds that he would flee or repeat the offence. He remained in jail awaiting trial. On 20 February 2006 Irving pleaded guilty to the charge of "trivialising, grossly playing down and denying the Holocaust".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Arrest_and_imprisonment_in_Austria

BUT there are plenty of survivors around to say what happened to them.

plenty of survivors of a mass extinction project. hmmmmm.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

The one guy you listed is a neo nazi

The surviors are people who where tortured and lost family members.

[Sock Puppet]

The one guy you listed is a neo nazi

The surviors are people who where tortured and lost family members.

great! more ad hominem!

just answer my question, if you would.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

I am sure because there are people who like I said where alive during it and lost family members.

Ok maybe there isn't an accurate number of how many people where killed. Whether it was a 10,000 or millions of people killed, people where still killed in the name of ethnic cleansing no matter how many numbers it's wrong.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

from what I am reading about david irving, he's not a neo nazi.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

i didn't mean the not

[Sock Puppet]

I am sure because there are people who like I said where alive during it and lost family members.

Ok maybe there isn't an accurate number of how many people where killed. Whether it was a 10,000 or millions of people killed, people where still killed in the name of ethnic cleansing no matter how many numbers it's wrong.

i'm not disagreeing with anything in your post, but let's talk about what has been done in the name of an event that has questionable accuracy.

How Ironic is Israel?
http://www.counterpunch.org/weir08282009.html

[Sock Puppet]

from what I am reading about david irving, he's a neo nazi.

and you're a socialist too. the two of you should get along great!

[DomesticatedFeminist]

i'm not disagreeing with anything in your post, but let's talk about what has been done in the name of an event that has questionable accuracy.

How Ironic is Israel?
http://www.counterpunch.org/weir08282009.html


I agree what is going on in Israel is efed up. I also have heard that hitler targeted jews at the request of zionist, so that they would get more support for their cause. I don't know if there is any truth to that though. I actually think I came across that on a jews against zionism website.

[DomesticatedFeminist]

and you're a socialist too. the two of you should get along great!

We may but probably not, i don't get along with racist very well.

[Sock Puppet]

I agree what is going on in Israel is efed up. I also have heard that hitler targeted jews at the request of zionist, so that they would get more support for their cause. I don't know if there is any truth to that though. I actually think I came across that on a jews against zionism website.

I also feel that Hitler had his own private agenda. He had to fund his war somehow, and there's only one place to go when you need to fund a war. International Jewery.

[Sock Puppet]

We may but probably not, i don't get along with racist very well.

You and I seem to get along fine. :)

[DomesticatedFeminist]

You and I seem to get along fine. :)

:eek:You're racist?!?!?!:eek: (sarcasm)

[raoul duke]

BTW, I consider this thread a success. SpeakUpWNY's resident white nationalist, Sock Puppet (an apt moniker,) rose and spoke up in defense of fascism. Not by endorsing fascism, mind you - I'm sure his balls are way to small for that kind of thing, but defending perhaps the worst and most efficient purveyor of that stripe of authoritarianism. I'm sure his white nationalist friends are proud of their little retard.

WIN!

PS. DomFem, check your PM's

[DomesticatedFeminist]

BTW, I consider this thread a success. SpeakUpWNY's resident white nationalist, Sock Puppet (an apt moniker,) rose and spoke up in defense of fascism. Not by endorsing fascism, mind you - I'm sure his balls are way to small for that kind of thing, but defending perhaps the worst and most efficient purveyor of that stripe of authoritarianism. I'm sure his white nationalist friends are proud of their little retard.

WIN!

PS. DomFem, check your PM's

He did defend it.. I am a witness to this :D