Can someone explain this rationale to me?

[therising]

I just saw a cancer-survivor woman on TV saying "I don't want someone to control my health care."

Does anyone really think that they have full control over their health care options when they're insured? Can people possibly be so naive as to think that the insurance companies don't set the rules as to what tests and procedures you can, or can't get?

What am I missing here? :confused:

[Surfing USA]

Did she say "someone" or the government? :confused:

If she said the government, I completely understand where she's coming from.

[therising]

Did she say "someone" or the government? :confused:

If she said the government, I completely understand where she's coming from.

Why? Because, you trust that, should you get a tragic illness, the insurance companies will be looking after your best interest? As opposed to their own bottom line.

And, somehow, or other, us Libs get accused of drinking Kool Aid.

[Surfing USA]

Why? Because, you trust that, should you get a tragic illness, the insurance companies will be looking after your best interest? As opposed to their own bottom line.

And, somehow, or other, us Libs get accused of drinking Kool Aid.
I don't trust the insurance companies at all but, sadly, I trust the government less.

[Dumbfounded]

I just saw a cancer-survivor woman on TV saying "I don't want someone to control my health care."

Does anyone really think that they have full control over their health care options when they're insured? Can people possibly be so naive as to think that the insurance companies don't set the rules as to what tests and procedures you can, or can't get?

What am I missing here? :confused:

Scare tactics to make people fight something that will ONLY do them good.
Nearly 50 million uninsured Americans and a HANDFUL of trash making huge $$ off of our very flawed, punitive and corrupt insurance system.

Because big pharma, the medical equipment & supply companies and the seven biggest insurers, once again people will suffer;Become ill, crippled or needlessly die all because a literal handful of elitists (and they are) have to have that few extra million or billion dollars.

If you show a commercial with a woman suffering from cancer who doesn't want big bad government in total control (would not be the case if passed),
you're going to scare the bejesus out of a lot of people
and I think that those of us who DO think have noticed by now
that FEAR TACTICS really get the job done

From the scare tactics in the mainstream media to the town hall disruptions
and of course plain anti-univ healthcare commercials showing the extreme and usually, the unlikely.

For example, the "ah won't let Amurica turn into a socialist country" argument is flawed by that very statement because from the VA Healthcare System to Medicaire to Police, Fire, EMT and other SOCIALIST services,
we've been PARTIALLY socialist a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time
but the SCUMMY COWARDLY media would have the gullible, the afraid believe that:

1) If we get universal health care with the public option, the U.S. will turn into ex-Communist Russia overnight!

2) That the elderly will be PUT TO DEATH!

3) That like parts of Canada's somewhat flawed system (a FRACTION of the SUCCESSFUL unive healthcare sys in the world), that if ya wanna see the doctor, you'll wait till you die from your injury or disease!

4) In a univ health care system, your medical care will be sub-standard, much worse than it is now, ESPECIALLY if you're one of the nearly 50 million Americans WITHOUT JACK HEALTH CARE because we all know that its better to be without health care at all than to turn Amurica into a socialist nation
which for MILLIONS OF AMERICANS, we ARE technically a little socialist already.


People will follow their FEARS and OBEY those who take advantage of those fears, hopes and dreams.

We're the last holdout in the WORLD and people have and will continue to needlessly suffer because of a handful of sociopaths in suits.

[4music]

Very well said Dumbfounded!!! I agree with your point of view. I would also add that it is entirely possible that the "big money people" in the healthcare industry, big pharma, the medical equipment & supply companies and the seven biggest insurers, don't want to give up one dollar of their income supply that might happen if the healthcare bill goes through. That is why they are doing these "scare tactics". They know people will not read the health bill for themselves to find out what is really says. Please know that I am not a entirely in favor of government run healthcare because I feel that the healthcare industry needs to be reformed to some degree FIRST. Once that happens then let's look at the government healthcare coverage.

[mesue]

I just saw a cancer-survivor woman on TV saying "I don't want someone to control my health care."

Does anyone really think that they have full control over their health care options when they're insured? Can people possibly be so naive as to think that the insurance companies don't set the rules as to what tests and procedures you can, or can't get?

What am I missing here? :confused:
Do you really think you will have the same control with government run healthcare? Or is this wishful thinking on your part?
Why is it that when people speakup it's called a "scare tactic"?

[therising]

Do you really think you will have the same control with government run healthcare? Or is this wishful thinking on your part?
Why is it that when people speakup it's called a "scare tactic"?

You're answering my question with another question?

[DomesticatedFeminist]

OO god these commercials are getting more desperate by the day!

[Dougles]

OO god these commercials are getting more desperate by the day!


I know what you mean, today i saw a commercial that said republicans were against ANY type of HC reform and they didn't even site any source! When in fact Republicans have put forth 44 different ideas on cutting costs (of which dem's have suggested 0) but all have been rejected.

The left is getting worse than the right in this battle!

[FisherRd]

When is the last time a citizen succesfully sued the Federal Government?
When's the last time a person succesfully sued a company?



You show them a link that states canadian healthcare is in trouble and they just want to know what some chump at the mall said.

[Dougles]

how about this one?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1207151/Woman-gives-birth-pavement-refused-ambulance.html

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I just saw a cancer-survivor woman on TV saying "I don't want someone to control my health care."

Does anyone really think that they have full control over their health care options when they're insured? Can people possibly be so naive as to think that the insurance companies don't set the rules as to what tests and procedures you can, or can't get?

What am I missing here? :confused:

The MB had a conversation about this last summer. I think what this comes down to is that there is three different types of care. You have Preventive Medicine, Emergency Medicine and Curative Medicine.

What a lot of people are missing is Emergency Medicine and Curative Medicine are driven by profit. The byproduct of the desire for profit is innovation.

If you are someone with AIDS or Cancer, you really do not care how much money the drug companies make as long as they work on keeping you alive.

Sure it is great if you have no insurance and you can schedule a doctors apt 3 months out. But what about when it comes to a life and death situation? Do you really want the same bureaucracy that brings you the DMV in charge?

Like a lot of things, the world at large depends on the US to be different. People can point to Europe or Canada for national health care but those systems rely on the US system for innovation. If the US were to "join the pack" so to speak....who is going to innovate?

Not many people are talking about the global impact that will happen if the US goes to some type of nationalized health care. Not many people, on both sides, are looking at the big picture.

It is similar to the global perception of the US military. People around the world just love to bash the US military, yet go to sleep every night under that blanket of protection.

I am all for another nation to step up and take the lead. But who is going to do it?

No system is perfect and everyone knows the US medical system needs A LOT of work. I just do not think people are seeing the long term implications of this rushed process. And it is VERY RUSHED.

[mesue]

You're answering my question with another question?
no, I'm asking you those questions.

[Linda_D]

Do you really think you will have the same control with government run healthcare? Or is this wishful thinking on your part?
Why is it that when people speakup it's called a "scare tactic"?

Ummm ... why don't you ask senior citizens how Medicare works for them? The health care reform that's been proposed is for universal health insurance somewhat similar to Medicare not for "government run healthcare".

If you go around "speaking up" negatively about something when you obviously don't even know what it is, I'd say that's certainly a "scare tactic".

[Dumbfounded]

I don't trust the insurance companies at all but, sadly, I trust the government less.

For the MOST part, the VA Healthcare system has been OUTSTANDING
and so has Medicair, for the MOST part.

I do not trust the govt at ALL;They are inefficient and almost as corrupt as Byron Brown but in SOME things, they get the job done right. In SOME things.

Couldn't believe it when I heard that there are SEVEN MAIN private insurance corporations as in a near-monopoly which is one of the many reasons WHY we need a public option to make these thieving treatment-denying, previous condition policy-denying corporate scum to REMEMBER what its like to COMPETE;The "big seven" have become so bloated with money, so spoiled and lezzy-Lazy that they need to "re-discover" the hard work ethic.

And on average we have a MUCH LONGER waiting time for care than Germany, France and I THINK England.
Canada can NOT be used as the only example of a flawed socialized health care system and its a lame, insulting argument, like saying,

"Oh. The United States could never have universal health care! Look how bad Canada's is! OK? And don't look at those other VERY successful nations whose citizens get much better care than YOU'LL ever get in your pathetic lifetime! Its NOT patriotic to question what Fox says!!!"

Sorry. I just lose it when I think what others are being MADE to think through repetition;Reinforcement via media scare tactics and other very well researched psychological manipulation of the masses.



"DF, you conspiracy theorist nutcase! There ain't no "media manipulation of the masses, now go watch Sean Hannity! He's saying some very wise and truthful things!"

[Truthdetector]

For the MOST part, the VA Healthcare system has been OUTSTANDING
and so has Medicair, for the MOST part.

I have to draw the line at your comment about the VA Healthcare system..... go into any VA hospital and ask what a person is doing there...... The standing joke is you are here to 1 - Wait or 2 - Die. Sad but true. The VA Healthcare system is the perfect example to fight against obamacare.

[Dumbfounded]

I have to draw the line at your comment about the VA Healthcare system..... go into any VA hospital and ask what a person is doing there...... The standing joke is you are here to 1 - Wait or 2 - Die. Sad but true. The VA Healthcare system is the perfect example to fight against obamacare.

Here's one of the BIGGEST problems with the VA Healthcare system that can EASILY be fixed:

The emergency rooms at most VA hospitals are often used by veterans who have no NEED to even GO to an ER. Seriously. I've heard this way too many times.

Forgive my ignance, but how do nations with socialized medicine treat their vets?

[Surfing USA]

Couldn't believe it when I heard that there are SEVEN MAIN private insurance corporations as in a near-monopoly which is one of the many reasons WHY we need a public option to make these thieving treatment-denying, previous condition policy-denying corporate scum to REMEMBER what its like to COMPETE;The "big seven" have become so bloated with money, so spoiled and lezzy-Lazy that they need to "re-discover" the hard work ethic.The problem is, the more people that rarely use their health care benefits that switch over to the government run plan, the more the private insurance companies will have to charge their members in order to cover expenses. The more they charge, the more people will switch over to the government plan and eventually the private insurers will be driven out of business.

I have a sick feeling that this is exactly what Obama and/or his cohorts want. ;)

[fp2206]

I just saw a cancer-survivor woman on TV saying "I don't want someone to control my health care."

Does anyone really think that they have full control over their health care options when they're insured? Can people possibly be so naive as to think that the insurance companies don't set the rules as to what tests and procedures you can, or can't get?

What am I missing here? :confused:

Here is what you are missing. If the ins companies screw up you can sue them. If the fed gov screws up try and sue them. Bureaucrats do not care for they know they have the us gov behind them. Just visit the post office or customs and see if they care the least about you. This may sound small but being accountable does mean something.

[mesue]

Ummm ... why don't you ask senior citizens how Medicare works for them? The health care reform that's been proposed is for universal health insurance somewhat similar to Medicare not for "government run healthcare".

If you go around "speaking up" negatively about something when you obviously don't even know what it is, I'd say that's certainly a "scare tactic".
Umm ... I have.

I'm a nurse. I have worked in MD's offices since the change in Medicare.

This is the United States of America, I can speak up where ever and whenever on whatever subject I want.

Obviously, you speak up out of the wrong place.