Future of Buffalo Bills?

[300miles]

The possibility of losing the Buffalo Bills to another city keeps resurfacing as other cities are looking to get teams. I was curious what everyone else here thought about our chances of keeping the team.


- Is Ralph Wilson the only person preventing them from leaving? (When he is no longer in control of the Bills will they leave?)

- Might some other wealthy WNY'er step up to try and keep them here?

- Is our market (including southern Ontario) really that small compared with other markets?

- If we DO lose the Bills... what will be the real impact to WNY?


_

[DR_GONZO]

The NFL, like any other business, is out to make the best profit in the best locations. This area is not making them a huge profit.

[Stevenco]

The Bills won't be going anywhere for a while.

[WNYresident]

and what makes you so sure about that?

[mikewrona]

When that unfortunate time comes, Los Angeles and all that So.Cal. money will look pretty good.

[Stevenco]

and what makes you so sure about that?

...just more profesy. Don't need any evidence for some things. It's a gift.

[300miles]

The trick to Stevenco's prophecies is in the wording...

Define "anywhere" and define "a while"

:D

[Stevenco]

The trick to Stevenco's prophecies is in the wording...
Define "anywhere" and define "a while"
:D

Shhhhhh:cool:

[buffy]

as long as ralph is around the Bill will be here - we all know that...they're not going anywhere for "a while" ralph is in fine health for his age as far as anyone knows

[300miles]

What is the real impact of the Bills on WNY? Say we do lose them someday. Ralph moves on to a better place (heaven or hawaii, take your pick) and his kids immediately sell the team to the highest bidder the moment their contract is up.

The city takes a hit to its ego. That's for sure. But we're used to that by now. We'll have an abandoned stadium, except maybe for a few highschool games or festivals maybe. Besides that though, what are other results?

Would our economy suffer? How many local businesses directly support the Bills?

Would we lose national presence that would result in lost business opportunities?

How about the Canadian visitors? Would we lose their spending dollars? How much do they spend in WNY directly related to football? or do they just drive in and drive out? (lost tolls at least)

Would support for the Sabres pick up? Would we try to get Basketball or Baseball as a replacement?

[Stevenco]

I could get into NBA action if we had a team. That's the only way. I love the MarchMadness tourney, though. As for baseball, I could watch an entire preseason game between the Milwukee Brewers and KC Royals or any other MLB teams, with interest.

[steven]

The bills revenue was 141 million last yr. Not super great like dallas (198)but nowhere near the bottom of the pack like arizona (126) or atlanta (133). Additionaly the bills have been in the top 10 for attendance every year for the past 10 yrs.

From Forbes:
<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD>Current
value(1)
</TD><TD align=right>$564 mil </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>1-yr value
change
</TD><TD align=right>23% </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Ann. Change
in value(2)
</TD><TD align=right>26% </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Debt/value(3) </TD><TD align=right>12% </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Revenue </TD><TD align=right>$141 mil </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Operating income(4) </TD><TD align=right>$35.4 mil </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Player Expenses(5) </TD><TD align=right>$71 mil </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Gate Receipts(6) </TD><TD align=right>$28 mil </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The skinny
Despite playing in one of the NFL's smallest markets, the Bills are very profitable teams and have seen the franchise's value increase dramatically the past few years. Prior to the 1999 season, owner Ralph Wilson extracted major stadium and lease improvements from Erie County, whereby team revenues from luxury suites and sponsorships have more than doubled. In addition, Buffalo has among the most ardent fans in football. Bills can leave Buffalo if they buy out their lease with Erie County for $20 million after this season. But Wilson would be nuts to leave this football-crazed city.
Major corporate sponsors are Choice One Communications (otc: CWON), Topps Friendly Market, Xerox (nyse: XRX), PepsiCo (nyse: PEP), Verizon Wireless.

[buffy]

cool, steven thanks

[boomeriam]

Can anyone say Toronto? International is the key word in Baseball , Football not far behind.:D

[DR_GONZO]

Still think the Bills won't be leaving? Did you hear Ralph today? It's starting already...

[300miles]

... are you going to share that info with us? or are you trying to make it more suspenseful.

[300miles]

ok, found this -

Wilson Concerned About Bills' Long Term Future
Tuesday, April 4, 2006 04:58 PM - WBEN Newsroom

Buffalo, NY (WBEN) - Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson met with Governor Pataki Monday and says "The long term viability of the team may be in serious doubt."

Wilson told Pataki during their meeting the new collective bargaining agreement does not help small market teams like the Bills.

Erie County Executive Joel Giambra tells Newsradio 930 WBEN he's heard the concerns, but there's nothing to worry about.

The Buffalobills.com Website quotes Pataki as saying he'll continue to advocate on behalf of the Bills, the only team that plays its home games in New York State.

http://www.wben.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=04712

[DR_GONZO]

“While I am committed to Western New York, the long term viability of our franchise may be in serious doubt.”

Bills Owner Talks With Pataki

The Buffalo Bills released the following press release:

The purpose of the meeting was to explain to the Governor the future competitive and financial challenges presented to the NFL’s smaller markets. The high cost of the new collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and its players represents a substantial burden to small market teams. The system produces an equal allocation of player costs with an unequal allocation of the revenues that give rise to those costs. This does not ensure a level playing field for small market teams. The Buffalo Bills are the only NFL team which plays its home games in New York State.

Wilson told the Governor that “While I am committed to Western New York, the long term viability of our franchise may be in serious doubt.” Wilson added “I have 46 years of my life invested in this franchise and in Western New York. There are those who don’t care about us, our passionate fans or our hard working taxpayers. Well, I do! I am not going to sugar coat this and I am not going down without a fight. The people who have supported us for these 46 years deserve more than that.”

Governor Pataki, an avid football fan who attended Super Bowl XL in Wilson’s home city of Detroit, was aware of and concerned about the recent developments. Pataki stated, “The secure future of the Buffalo Bills in Western New York is of vital interest to me and the people of New York State. While the issues raised by Mr. Wilson are not unique to the Buffalo Bills, the future of that franchise is of primary concern to me. I have communicated my concerns to Commissioner Paul Tagliabue and will continue to advocate on behalf of the Buffalo Bills.”

[300miles]

:)


..........

[DR_GONZO]

Wow, we posted almost the same thing at the same time.That's whack!

[LHardy]

as long as ralph is around the Bill will be here - we all know that...they're not going anywhere for "a while" ralph is in fine health for his age as far as anyone knows

I beleive this to be the very reason the Bills will leave.
Football fans are a readily availabel commodity in most major cities. There would be no problem moving them.
Revenue sharing is alarge key to success and our market is small.
Ralph also has to move many of his assets before he dyes in order to avoid many penalties in the death tax and capital gains and on and on.
The man has to move his money now to be the most advantages to the buisness. It is more then Ralph and the Bills at stake here. It is the hundreds of jobs his personal buisness hires. They need a sucure future. Buffalo will not be part of that picture. Not with the current state of economics. Unless of course we intend to pay them billions to stay.

[LHardy]

Just tell them to go.

I hope our elected leader have the balls not to let them walk all over the tax payer. Yes some businesses benefit from those 8 home games but most of the tax payers in the region do not. Thier money should not go to help a sports team.

IT'S BETWEEN THE UPRIGHTS!!!!!!

[moonshine]

KC just approved a sales tax increase to build a nifty new stadium.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9358623

At least the taxpayers screwed themselves via referendum. We won't be so lucky.

Buffalo "Pay-The" Bills

[DR_GONZO]

No more taxpayer funding for any sports teams. They are a business that makes a pretty penny. No need for handouts. So long Bills. Appalachia can't afford you.

[colossus27]

I beleive this to be the very reason the Bills will leave.
Football fans are a readily availabel commodity in most major cities. There would be no problem moving them.

If the NFL comissioner is stupid enough to screw the small-market clubs with a CBA, and the owners allow it, they all get what they deserve. There's not that many 'major' cities w/out teams that aren't in the NFL.

This high-on-the-hog thing the NFL enjoys right now is due to many things. Most every town can, in theory, field a competitive team. That changes, the fan base will too. Stupid mistakes can lead to bad things. Just look at the TV ratings for the Indy 500, for example. Meanwhile, brilliant marketing has turned NASCAR into something that actually threatens the NFL's ratings.

[buffy]

No more taxpayer funding for any sports teams. They are a business that makes a pretty penny. No need for handouts. So long Bills. Appalachia can't afford you.
The Appalachian Bills!

now, for THAT i would support a sales tax increase....but to pay for the mistakes of self-serving politicos AND lose the Bills, my soul is vexed

[Dino330]

I'd be completely fine with them using tax money to help fund a new stadium, as long as that stadium is downtown. Rich Stadium never should have gone up in Orchard Park in the first place.
Put it on the waterfront where the Pier is. There's plenty of unused land over there.

If we do get a new stadium, it had better not be a dome.

[steven]

You Go Dino!

[Pauldo]

You Go Dino!

Taxpayers should not fund NFL franchises---PERIOD!

[WestCoastPerspective]

Isn't it ironic that Wilson meets with Pataki the same week NYState agrees to hundreds of millions of dollars for a new Mets and a new Yankee Stadium and is getting close to an agreement to spend 100's of more millions to expand the Javits Convention Center? Wilson may be lobbying an outgoing governor, but he's starting to build his "what about me" case....

Wilson may be old, but he's no dummy!

[DR_GONZO]

Originally Posted by Dino330
Put it on the waterfront where the Pier is. There's plenty of unused land over there.

If we do get a new stadium, it had better not be a dome.

Have you ever been down by the lake in November, December, and January when the wind and snow is whipping up off the lake? Your open air stadium would be a disaster.

[Dino330]

Have you ever been down by the lake in November, December, and January when the wind and snow is whipping up off the lake? Your open air stadium would be a disaster.A disaster? Never! That's called 'home field advantage.' If anything the extra wind and snow would be a bonus for our boys in the red white and navy blue. What did Jim Kelly used to call it?
BILLS' WEATHER!

Take a look at Indy vs. New England in last year's playoffs (2004 season). Peyton and the pampered, dome playing Colts didn't stand a chance against the Patriots during the blizzard. If you don't have a bunch of pansies on your team, playing at home in the snow is one hell of an advantage.

When you were a little kid, did you call up some buddies and go play touch football in the school gym? HELL NO! You went to the closest park in the nastiest weather and slopped around in the mud. Or the snow. Or the rain.
Football is meant to be played outside.

Which games on tv have the best ratings and are the most fun to watch? Snow games!

There is no need to be comfortable when you have endzone seats for a late December game. You want to be pampered, buy suite tickets. They're available. But to me, being at a late season football game means huddling around a trash can fire before the game. It means numb toes and gripping that $3 hot chocolate for some extra warmth. It means those toasty hand warmers you stick in your jacket pockets. It's all about braving the biting sub-zero wind chill to cheer on the Buffalo Bills.

And I'll say it again: I'm fine with them spending my tax dollars on a new stadium. Hell, I encourage it. If that's what it takes to keep the team here, I'm all for it. Just make that stadium open-air. No domes. I'd love for it to be on the waterfront. The nastier the weather, the better.

[Ragin]

A disaster? Never! That's called 'home field advantage.' If anything the extra wind and snow would be a bonus for our boys in the red white and navy blue. What did Jim Kelly used to call it?
BILLS' WEATHER!

There is no need to be comfortable when you have endzone seats for a late December game. You want to be pampered, buy suite tickets. They're available. But to me, being at a late season football game means huddling around a trash can fire before the game. It means numb toes and gripping that $3 hot chocolate for some extra warmth. It means those toasty hand warmers you stick in your jacket pockets. It's all about braving the biting sub-zero wind chill to cheer on the Buffalo Bills.


These were always my kids favorite games. Hats, gloves, scarves, hand and toe warmers, and a stadium blanket. Hot cocoa too. It always felt warmer when the flakes started flying. The crowd went wild during those games, even when the Bills were behind.

It was like "someone upstairs" was watching and we knew help was on the way ;)

[Joe Buff]

The fact that Ralph Wilson is apparently in good health is secondary to the fact of his age. He will not be here forever; and, as has been stated elsewhere, it would be wise for him to divest himself of the Bills before his demise in order to save his heirs the mess and unbearable expense of inheriting the team.

As he did in the case of the Sabres, Tom Golisano may be able to step in and be the savior once again. Check the WGRZ story on this at http://wgrz.com/sports/sports_article.aspx?storyid=36785.

IMHO, the State should not spend any more money on the Bills, or on any other sports franchise. These are private business that tend to spend money like drunken sailors on a weekend pass. If the State is thinking of using our tax dollars for anything along the line of sports, they should be supporting the U.B. Bulls and other athletic programs in the State system. What we need is a new doctrine of the separation of Private Sector and State.

[Cgoodsp466]

These were always my kids favorite games. Hats, gloves, scarves, hand and toe warmers, and a stadium blanket. Hot cocoa too. It always felt warmer when the flakes started flying. The crowd went wild during those games, even when the Bills were behind.

It was like "someone upstairs" was watching and we knew help was on the way ;)


Good night Johnboy,Goodnight Ellen,Goodnight Jimbob. Whats that Lassie Ralph is in trouble?

[Dino330]

Good night Johnboy,Goodnight Ellen,Goodnight Jimbob. Whats that Lassie Ralph is in trouble?
No, no trouble at all. But as proud, die hard Bills fans we appreciate your concern. Mr. Wilson just wants to make sure the Buffalo Bills remain in Buffalo after his eventual demise. Good thing Mr. Golisano might have an interest! Then the Bills will remain for sure! I know how happy this must make you! GO BILLS!! WHOO HOO!

[steven]

Good thing Mr. Golisano might have an interest! Then the Bills will remain for sure! I know how happy this must make you! GO BILLS!! WHOO HOO!


I was thinking the same thing, the whole meeting is to make sure the bills stay here, not move.

Im all for a stadium downtown.

Before everyone starts complaining about using tax payer money look at how much the state spent on the yankees. If you think no new stadium means are taxes will go down your high as a kite they will just spend it downstate on the New Jersey Giants or New Jersey Jets, or some other downstate thing.

.......and like I said the bills are the only thing I get to see for my local tax dollars. and I am a tax payer to.;)

[Cgoodsp466]

No, no trouble at all. But as proud, die hard Bills fans we appreciate your concern. Mr. Wilson just wants to make sure the Buffalo Bills remain in Buffalo after his eventual demise. Good thing Mr. Golisano might have an interest! Then the Bills will remain for sure! I know how happy this must make you! GO BILLS!! WHOO HOO!

Go Browns Whooooooo Hoooooooooooooo. What do you fanantics do with your share of the money that the players get when they win the super bowl.Its a game its not a religion or a cure for cancer.:D

[Joe Buff]

Some rumblings from north of the border carry the rumor that Rogers might be interested in importing the Bills to Toronto. The suggested new name of the team: Toronto Toros. As one of my favorite comediennes is wont to say, "It could happen!"

[Cgoodsp466]

Some rumblings from north of the border carry the rumor that Rogers might be interested in importing the Bills to Toronto. The suggested new name of the team: Toronto Toros. As one of my favorite comediennes is wont to say, "It could happen!"


If that happens ,I will invest in companys that make ropes and Ladders.Their will be Bills Fanantics hanging in trees all over the Region.:D

[steven]

whats wrong cg? the other kids wouldnt let u play?:D

[Dino330]

Seriously, Cgood? If you're such a Bills hater why do you bother posting in Bills threads? I really don't understand. At first I thought I did something to piss you off on some other thread and I just didn't remember it, because of your semi-vicious shots. But now I see you just don't like the Bills in general.

Do you feel this way about all sports?

[tomac]

Posted by: Stefan Mychajliw, Reporter
Created: 4/6/2006 7:41:21 PM
Updated: 4/7/2006 8:31:58 AM

Former Erie County Legislator Al DeBenedetti was one of only two lawmakers to vote against the Buffalo Bills lease deal with Erie County back in 1998. Greg Olma was the other.
Eight years later, and now retired, DeBenedetti has harsh words for team owner Ralph Wilson concerning his claims that the future of the franchise in Western New York is in jeopardy because of the N.F.L.’s new labor agreement. That deal calls for 60% of all league profits going to players.
DeBenedetti’s message to Wilson: show me the money.
"If he's claiming he's losing money, he's got to prove it to us. We can't just go based on his verbal claim. That's not a way to do business. He wouldn't do business with anybody that way. Why would we do business with him that way? Just take his verbal claims without seeing his books?
I'm confident they're making money. I think the question is: how much money? And is he just asking us to increase his profit,” asked DeBenedetti.
As part of that lease agreement, New York State kicked in $96 million for stadium improvements. Erie County’s share at the time: $26 million.
Just last year, Erie County taxpayers gave the Bills close to $6 million for stadium repairs, maintenance, and operations.
“We can't really give them any more than that. Taxpayers actually provide substantial resources to the Buffalo Bills. We maintain the stadium. They identify the projects, and we pay the costs,” said Erie County Legislature Minority Leader Dr. Barry Weinstein.
Erie County’s lease agreement also gives the Bills permission to sell the name of the stadium to a corporate sponsor. But the stadium was named after Ralph Wilson.
"I believe that Ralph Wilson's intent all along, was to have the stadium named after him. He could turn around and sell the naming rights and get whatever he could for them. A conservatively estimated $2 million rather than gouging the taxpayers of Erie County," said DeBenedetti.
“The Buffalo Bills are giving up this revenue. It's up to them. It's their call," added Dr. Weinstein.
If Wilson were to ask lawmakers for a new stadium, he more than likely would get a major chunk of that money from New York State. A new stadium would mean more luxury boxes, and the Bills wouldn’t have to share that revenue with other teams around the N.F.L.
2 On Your Side’s Stefan Mychajliw: "What would happen potentially, if the Bills did approach lawmakers and said, you know what, maybe we need to look at a new stadium?”
New York State Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno: “I guess you'd have to take a look at what the specifics were. What the amount of money was, what the real need was, what the alternatives were.”
"It would be up to State for them to fund it. It's a state obligation. It's a State concern. It would be a lot of money. What does a new stadium do? It provides the boxes of unshared revenue. It's an expensive way of generating 20, or 50, or 100-million dollars in unshared revenue," added Dr. Weinstein.
"I love football. I go to games. I love sports. What I dislike intensely is private greed. And that's what this is all about. If he can prove to me that he's losing money, I'll personally apologize to him. I don't think I'm ever going to have to worry about that," said DeBenedetti.

So what do you think? Are we being gouged by yet another rich businessman in Western New York? More corporate welfare at the expense of the working man and woman?
I say that its time to plant a thick-soled size 9 up Wilson's butt and send him packing. :mad:

[DR_GONZO]

BINGO!!!!!!

Your post, tomac, paints a very good picture of what the Bills and Mr. Wilson really are, a business and owner of that business out to make the biggest profit they can, anyway and anywhere they see fit. Buffalo no longer fits into that picture.

[Dino330]

Actually, it was an editorial from Stefan Mychajliw, muckracker extraordinaire.

[DR_GONZO]

Ralph gonna sell his sad tune to the media at a 12:45 press conference today and talk to Giambra, lol!!!!!!! Maybe Giambra will become the new president of the Bills? He'll fix them.

[Ragin]

Ralph gonna sell his sad tune to the media at a 12:45 press conference today and talk to Giambra, lol!!!!!!!

will this be broadcast live on tv?

[Cgoodsp466]

whats wrong cg? the other kids wouldnt let u play?:D


Sorry steve Varsity Defenceive End NE High School class of 67.:p

[Cgoodsp466]

Seriously, Cgood? If you're such a Bills hater why do you bother posting in Bills threads? I really don't understand. At first I thought I did something to piss you off on some other thread and I just didn't remember it, because of your semi-vicious shots. But now I see you just don't like the Bills in general.

Do you feel this way about all sports?

I dont hate sports,I just realize that the world doesent revolve around them.I am not pissed off at you.I dont even know you. I do have an abhorrent disregard for taxes and Unions. I am tired of supporting others with my tax dollars.Enough is enough.I had season seats for 10 years,got tired of the Fair weather fans of this area.when I moved here in 1975 you could not get a Hockey Ticket but you could get a football ticket becuase the Bills sucked.All of a sudden they start winning,the Sabers start loseing and a total flip flop.
I travel the country alot,Green Bay Sold out every game for the next 100 years. Cleveland,the Browns have sucked for the last three years.They sell out every week. This area is full of band wagon jumpers.Now everybody is takeing the gas pipe becuase the Bills might move. Football sundays for me are just a reason to Hang out with My friends drink Beer and smoke Cigars.I could give a rats butt who wins.
Now since I have bared my soul to you.Why do the Ushers Need a union?

[Cgoodsp466]

Posted by: Stefan Mychajliw, Reporter
Created: 4/6/2006 7:41:21 PM
Updated: 4/7/2006 8:31:58 AM

Former Erie County Legislator Al DeBenedetti was one of only two lawmakers to vote against the Buffalo Bills lease deal with Erie County back in 1998. Greg Olma was the other.
Eight years later, and now retired, DeBenedetti has harsh words for team owner Ralph Wilson concerning his claims that the future of the franchise in Western New York is in jeopardy because of the N.F.L.’s new labor agreement. That deal calls for 60% of all league profits going to players.
DeBenedetti’s message to Wilson: show me the money.
"If he's claiming he's losing money, he's got to prove it to us. We can't just go based on his verbal claim. That's not a way to do business. He wouldn't do business with anybody that way. Why would we do business with him that way? Just take his verbal claims without seeing his books?
I'm confident they're making money. I think the question is: how much money? And is he just asking us to increase his profit,” asked DeBenedetti.
As part of that lease agreement, New York State kicked in $96 million for stadium improvements. Erie County’s share at the time: $26 million.
Just last year, Erie County taxpayers gave the Bills close to $6 million for stadium repairs, maintenance, and operations.
“We can't really give them any more than that. Taxpayers actually provide substantial resources to the Buffalo Bills. We maintain the stadium. They identify the projects, and we pay the costs,” said Erie County Legislature Minority Leader Dr. Barry Weinstein.
Erie County’s lease agreement also gives the Bills permission to sell the name of the stadium to a corporate sponsor. But the stadium was named after Ralph Wilson.
"I believe that Ralph Wilson's intent all along, was to have the stadium named after him. He could turn around and sell the naming rights and get whatever he could for them. A conservatively estimated $2 million rather than gouging the taxpayers of Erie County," said DeBenedetti.
“The Buffalo Bills are giving up this revenue. It's up to them. It's their call," added Dr. Weinstein.
If Wilson were to ask lawmakers for a new stadium, he more than likely would get a major chunk of that money from New York State. A new stadium would mean more luxury boxes, and the Bills wouldn’t have to share that revenue with other teams around the N.F.L.
2 On Your Side’s Stefan Mychajliw: "What would happen potentially, if the Bills did approach lawmakers and said, you know what, maybe we need to look at a new stadium?”
New York State Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno: “I guess you'd have to take a look at what the specifics were. What the amount of money was, what the real need was, what the alternatives were.”
"It would be up to State for them to fund it. It's a state obligation. It's a State concern. It would be a lot of money. What does a new stadium do? It provides the boxes of unshared revenue. It's an expensive way of generating 20, or 50, or 100-million dollars in unshared revenue," added Dr. Weinstein.
"I love football. I go to games. I love sports. What I dislike intensely is private greed. And that's what this is all about. If he can prove to me that he's losing money, I'll personally apologize to him. I don't think I'm ever going to have to worry about that," said DeBenedetti.

So what do you think? Are we being gouged by yet another rich businessman in Western New York? More corporate welfare at the expense of the working man and woman?
I say that its time to plant a thick-soled size 9 up Wilson's butt and send him packing. :mad:

I think a Donkey is about to fly. Tomac and I agree:D

[Dino330]

Why do the Ushers Need a union?OK, a fair enough question. I don't see why it bothers you, but it's a fair question to ask.

Let's see. I don't know how many sections there are at Ralph Wilson Stadium, but we have a man in every one of them, plus guys at all the stadium entrances, suite entrances, and (I'm guessing) sixteen usher captains. The point is there are a lot of us, so we're organized to get fair negotiations.

What's fair? Well, that's for the top guys to decide. They're in direct negotiations with the Buffalo Bills. I'm not going to tell you what I get paid, but it's fair.
We go to two training sessions every summer so we know how to handle anything that comes our way. There's problems in every section, every game. This guy's too drunk. That guy's starting fights. My electric seat isn't working. He's standing. She's shouting. They're in our seats. I paid money for this ticket so why am I not allowed in this suite? My kid got puked on. And of course... Where's my seat?

I'm not complaining, just giving you some examples of things that happen every game. Some seem self-explanatory but aren't. "That guy's standing ." Well, you need to explain that he has every right to stand at his seat. He paid for it, and if he chooses to stand during the game he can do that. "That guy's shouting." Same thing. He can shout and cheer any way he likes. If he starts swearing and I get a complaint, that's different. Then I can ask him not to swear.

It's just non-stop customer service I suppose. I enjoy it, so I stay on. I'll point somebody to a restroom and then high five somebody else after a first down.

I probably did not answer your question correctly, since 'why' is a universal question. I realize you can quote my whole post and rewrite 'But why do the ushers need a union?' I'll just have to answer, "Why not?"
We're good at what we do, we're very serious about it, we have fun when we can, and we're the Local 200.

Go Bills.

[DR_GONZO]

Originally Posted by DR_GONZO
Your post, tomac, paints a very good picture of what the Bills and Mr. Wilson really are, a business and owner of that business out to make the biggest profit they can, anyway and anywhere they see fit. Buffalo no longer fits into that picture.

OK, I might have been partially wrong with my earlier post about Mr. Wilson. I should have said the NFL is out to make the biggest profit they can, anyway and anywhere they see fit.

Bottomline, it's not the fans that count, it's the corporate bucks. That's sad. With that said, I'll right a letter on behalf of Bills' fans as soon as I'm done writing my letter to our political cretins blasting the amnesty/illegal immigration/guest worker B.S.:mad:

[300miles]

As devil's advocate (Actually I'm just on the fence with this) 2 questions:

For the people that are AGAINST a new Bills stadium:
Does your decision change at all if NYS spends a billion dollars for a NYC stadium, while Buffalo loses the Bills without a new Buffalo stadium? Isn't this just one more example of WNY/Updstate getting the shaft? (since WE will be paying for the NYC stadiums as much as people from NYC) and you know darn well if NYC wants a stadium, they WILL get it.

For the people that are FOR a new stadium:
Does that fact that public monies for a new stadium dwarf expenditure on Bass Pro, Inner Harbor, Peace Bridge, etc. change your mind on how much spending is appropriate to keep the Bills in town? (compared to how much economic return we get for the investment?)

[Joe Buff]

As devil's advocate (Actually I'm just on the fence with this) 2 questions:

For the people that are AGAINST a new Bills stadium:
Does your decision change at all if NYS spends a billion dollars for a NYC stadium, while Buffalo loses the Bills without a new Buffalo stadium? Isn't this just one more example of WNY/Updstate getting the shaft? (since WE will be paying for the NYC stadiums as much as people from NYC) and you know darn well if NYC wants a stadium, they WILL get it.

For the people that are FOR a new stadium:
Does that fact that public monies for a new stadium dwarf expenditure on Bass Pro, Inner Harbor, Peace Bridge, etc. change your mind on how much spending is appropriate to keep the Bills in town? (compared to how much economic return we get for the investment?)

I am AGAINST any stadium at all, anywhere in NY State, that is built on the backs of taxpayers. That doesn't change even if they build not ONE NYC stadium, but TWO (one for the Yankees and one for the Mets). Compounding the wrong by also building one in Buffalo doesn't make anything right. It would just make it MORE WRONG.

The anti-NYC prejudice shouts out loud and clear here, by the way. There is just as much prejudice and venom down there against Western NY (which, of course, they refer to as "upstate"). Those wrongs don't make anybody right either.

In my opinion, we should not, as a population, pay a dime to keep the Bills in the area. If Bills fans want to chip in and do it, that would be their choice. The rest of us can do very well without the cesspool in Orchard Park--or anywhere else in the area they decide to move it.

[Cgoodsp466]

OK, a fair enough question. I don't see why it bothers you, but it's a fair question to ask.

Let's see. I don't know how many sections there are at Ralph Wilson Stadium, but we have a man in every one of them, plus guys at all the stadium entrances, suite entrances, and (I'm guessing) sixteen usher captains. The point is there are a lot of us, so we're organized to get fair negotiations.

What's fair? Well, that's for the top guys to decide. They're in direct negotiations with the Buffalo Bills. I'm not going to tell you what I get paid, but it's fair.
We go to two training sessions every summer so we know how to handle anything that comes our way. There's problems in every section, every game. This guy's too drunk. That guy's starting fights. My electric seat isn't working. He's standing. She's shouting. They're in our seats. I paid money for this ticket so why am I not allowed in this suite? My kid got puked on. And of course... Where's my seat?

I'm not complaining, just giving you some examples of things that happen every game. Some seem self-explanatory but aren't. "That guy's standing ." Well, you need to explain that he has every right to stand at his seat. He paid for it, and if he chooses to stand during the game he can do that. "That guy's shouting." Same thing. He can shout and cheer any way he likes. If he starts swearing and I get a complaint, that's different. Then I can ask him not to swear.

It's just non-stop customer service I suppose. I enjoy it, so I stay on. I'll point somebody to a restroom and then high five somebody else after a first down.

I probably did not answer your question correctly, since 'why' is a universal question. I realize you can quote my whole post and rewrite 'But why do the ushers need a union?' I'll just have to answer, "Why not?"
We're good at what we do, we're very serious about it, we have fun when we can, and we're the Local 200.

Go Bills.

Hey you told me way more then I needed to know:)

[concernedwnyer]

as long as ralph is around the Bill will be here - we all know that...they're not going anywhere for "a while" ralph is in fine health for his age as far as anyone knows

Are you kidding???? The guy looked like YODA from Star Wars..... Spielberg could have saved a ton of money on makeup had Wilson been cast for the part... The other night I thought he was going to hit the table face first in the middle of a sentence as he spoke on camera. There does come a point in life where you need to reflect back on things and let someone else take the reins....

[Ragin]

Are you kidding???? The guy looked like YODA from Star Wars..... Spielberg could have saved a ton of money on makeup had Wilson been cast for the part... The other night I thought he was going to hit the table face first in the middle of a sentence as he spoke on camera. There does come a point in life where you need to reflect back on things and let someone else take the reins....


YODA?? :rolleyes:

What channel were you watching? Cable or dish?

He's 87 yrs old and still going. He didn't appear to have one foot in the grave on my tv. ... It pays to be active.

[therising]

Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch about the new Mets and Yankees stadiums, lets get some facts straight:

Mets - Mets are paying $600 Million of their own money. The City and State, combined, are paying $165 Million, mostly for infrastructure. (I don't know the breakdown of State vs. City monies). Considering 2-3 Million people/year will be going through the gates, I'd bet that money will be recouped in sales taxes pretty quickly.

Yankess - $800 Million project, City kicking in $138 Million, State spending $70Million.

I sick of the whining of how NYC drains the State. Its the engine that drives the train, and NYS would be in far worse condition if it was not for NYC.

[Joe Buff]

I sick of the whining of how NYC drains the State. Its the engine that drives the train, and NYS would be in far worse condition if it was not for NYC.
Gee! And I thought it was Buffalo that was God's gift to New York State. We pay all the taxes, we produce all the talent, we generate all the gripes. What would THEY ever do without US?

[300miles]

This is not meant to turn into yet another Buffalo vs. NYC thread.

The reason it comes up is that Buffalo and NYC are the only NY cities that have football teams. NYC is in the process of getting 2 new stadiums with large public state subsidies. Many buffalonians complain about spending public money on a new Bills stadium but then don't care (or don't know) that NYC goes ahead and gets 2.

If someone is against a new Bills stadium they should be equally against any NYC stadium (as someone posted above did) Otherwise they're still paying the taxes and restricting anything big coming to buffalo while letting NYC get it all.

That's not anti-NYC. just pointing out the disconnect some people have.

[Joe Buff]

New York City does not have an NFL team. The only NFL team in New York State is the Bills. The two stadiums under negotiations to be built are Baseball stadiums, for the Yankees and the Mets. The Jets and the Giants are both New Jersey teams who play in the stadium erected in the swamplands as a memorial to deceased gang members.

[concernedwnyer]

The bills revenue was 141 million last yr. Not super great like dallas (198)but nowhere near the bottom of the pack like arizona (126) or atlanta (133). Additionaly the bills have been in the top 10 for attendance every year for the past 10 yrs.

From Forbes:
<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD>Current
value(1)
</TD><TD align=right>$564 mil </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>1-yr value
change
</TD><TD align=right>23% </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Ann. Change
in value(2)
</TD><TD align=right>26% </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Debt/value(3) </TD><TD align=right>12% </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Revenue </TD><TD align=right>$141 mil </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Operating income(4) </TD><TD align=right>$35.4 mil </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Player Expenses(5) </TD><TD align=right>$71 mil </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Gate Receipts(6) </TD><TD align=right>$28 mil </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The skinny
Despite playing in one of the NFL's smallest markets, the Bills are very profitable teams and have seen the franchise's value increase dramatically the past few years. Prior to the 1999 season, owner Ralph Wilson extracted major stadium and lease improvements from Erie County, whereby team revenues from luxury suites and sponsorships have more than doubled. In addition, Buffalo has among the most ardent fans in football. Bills can leave Buffalo if they buy out their lease with Erie County for $20 million after this season. But Wilson would be nuts to leave this football-crazed city.
Major corporate sponsors are Choice One Communications (otc: CWON), Topps Friendly Market, Xerox (nyse: XRX), PepsiCo (nyse: PEP), Verizon Wireless.

Could you explain the rantings by Ralph on the front page of the Buffalo News today. Something does not add up.

[DR_GONZO]

The answer lies right in your own post.

Bills can leave Buffalo if they buy out their lease with Erie County for $20 million after this season.

Sounds to me Ralph is very much concerned about future profit and quite possibly the future profit for a family member? Maybe that's why he won't say anything about that.

[300miles]

Could you explain the rantings by Ralph on the front page of the Buffalo News today. Something does not add up.
like gonzo said, I don't think Ralph is concerned about current profit, I think he's concerned about the future.

He mentioned there is some strange clause in the new agreement where any team that is sold forfeits all shared profit. Once Ralph dies and his kids get the team, they will immediately try to sell it. But once it's sold it loses the shared profits, which would make it more difficult to stay here compared with moving to a bigger city. So whoever buys it will then move it.

That's my understanding of it anyway. If I misunderstood it - let me know what the real deal is.

Does that figure of Revenue above ($141 million) include shared revenue? Do they break down how much of that is from Shared?