Patriotic Hero or Terrorist?

[FJB]

It has been more than ten years since Timothy McVeigh blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City. After seeing the governmental abuse of power that Tim saw then. Would you call Tim McViegh a Patriotic Hero or terrorist?

[DR_GONZO]

He was a jackass who killed innocent American fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters. There was NOTHING patriotic in murdering innocent Americans. He never got his message across by his own actions. A true failure. Far from a hero.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

He murdered innocents. Nothing can justify what he did.:mad:

[FJB]

Yes he killed people. Obviosly, but did he respond to a government using military force to subdue a peaceful group they didn't agree with? My question to you is, at what point do you pick up a gun and fight for the rights that you're forefathers bled and died for? Although Tim Mcveigh's response to government oppression was misguided, the saying that "From time to time it takes the blood of patriots to preserve the freedoms we enjoy" has never been more true.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Yes he killed people. Obviosly, but did he respond to a government using military force to subdue a peaceful group they didn't agree with? My question to you is, at what point do you pick up a gun and fight for the rights that you're forefathers bled and died for? Although Tim Mcveigh's response to government oppression was misguided, the saying that "From time to time it takes the blood of patriots to preserve the freedoms we enjoy" has never been more true.

So, were the 9/11 killers patriots for their cause? Or terrorists?

[JustRetired]

FJB

You can't be serious!

[FJB]

Again, At what point do you pick up a gun and defend the rights you're forefathers bled and died for?

[FJB]

As far as 911 goes, I will never agree with the attacks. However I do understand them. I guess you would have to have served in the US military and watch first hand as our government hands out weapons to anyone in the world willing to fight for a cause that the US agrees with. This actually comes back to "at what point do pick up a gun and fight". If another country was providing weapons to every disentary faction in the US, and they started wars in our country, I'm sure our citizens would demand action against those countries. If our country was to weak to do so, then I imagine we as citizens may take it upon ourselves to take the fight to thier soil!!!

[fireman]

Protecting your rights by killing innocent Americans? This is not rational thinking.

[FJB]

Is rational thinking giving up you're rights to avoid violence? I believe that you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hands!!!

[atotaltotalfan2001]

FJB

You can't be serious!

Why not? They were extremists, just like Tim McVeigh. They had different causes, different reasons to feel they had been abused and abandoned by their leaders in favor of the U.S.

They did what they felt they had to do.

So, were they patriots or terrorists?

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Again, At what point do you pick up a gun and defend the rights you're forefathers bled and died for?
Mind if we back up here for a minute? Exactly which rights are you talking about, and how did McVeigh's bombing address them?

[Stevenco]

So, were the 9/11 killers patriots for their cause? Or terrorists?
Why are you asking if they are this or that? They were obviously both. Terrorists to us and Patriots to themselves. Not unlike our war machine are Patriots to us and terror to them.

BTW, only homemade bombs are weapons of terror. Daisy Cutters and Bunker Busters are too high tech to be terrible.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Why are you asking if they are this or that? They were obviously both. Terrorists to us and Patriots to themselves. Not unlike our war machine are Patriots to us and terror to them.

BTW, only homemade bombs are weapons of terror. Daisy Cutters and Bunker Busters are too high tech to be terrible.

Both McVeigh and the 9/11 killers were terrorists -- that's the point I hoped to eventually make. They used the same excuses for violence.

[Stevenco]

Both McVeigh and the 9/11 killers were terrorists -- that's the point I hoped to eventually make. They used the same excuses for violence. Oh, I'm sorry. You were just trying to state the obvious. I looked right over it.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Oh, I'm sorry. You were just trying to state the obvious. I looked right over it.

Well, I wasn't doing a very good job of it or you would have noticed!!:)

[Stevenco]

Oh okay, was Elvis Presley an entertainer or a Capricorn?

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Oh okay, was Elvis Presley an entertainer or a Capricorn?

That's too complicated for me. Sounds like a question for FJB!:)

[fireman]

Mind if we back up here for a minute? Exactly which rights are you talking about, and how did McVeigh's bombing address them?

Maybe the rights they are referring to is the right to be free from government implanted tracking devices, as the nut McVeigh claimed.

[fireman]

Yes he killed people. Obviosly, but did he respond to a government using military force to subdue a peaceful group they didn't agree with? My question to you is, at what point do you pick up a gun and fight for the rights that you're forefathers bled and died for? Although Tim Mcveigh's response to government oppression was misguided, the saying that "From time to time it takes the blood of patriots to preserve the freedoms we enjoy" has never been more true.

Killing 160 people is "misguided?" Comparing him to our forefathers who died for this country is perverse.

[FJB]

Our Gov. has a long history of inflicting terror upon our own people, much less the rest of the world. First we bring disease to this land, killing thousands. Then when our population grows we exterminate the Native Americans. We put American citizens in camps just because they had a little Jap in them, and we allowed countries like Russia to conduct the greatest holocaust in history when Stalin killed millions after WW2. I am not a proponent of McVeigh. I know I sound like it now, but each of us has a piont in which we will say enough. When is that point for you. Does the Gov. have to touch you're lives individually before you will act in some way, or is a true cause enough. McVeigh's cause was because the gov. violated the Constitution by using the military against its own citizens. After fighting and killing for the Constitution in Iraq. Are you aware the he recieved the Bronse Medal for heroism? I'm sure Mcveigh thought if they will do it to Waco, they will do it to us. Then he acted. Everyone condems the fact that children died, me to. However, how many kids have we killed this year in Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, or even the African American Slaves and Native Americans? does you're kid have to die at the hands of the US gov. before you say you will act. Or are you a patriot like McVeigh willing to stand up to tearany and opression that he witnessed on that day in Waco.

[300miles]

I can't believe this...


A Patriot is not defined by the fact that he thinks of himself as a Patriot.

He has to ACTUALLY BE a patriot.

Anyone that purposely murders innocent people just to get attention IS NOT A PATRIOT.

Period!



.

[Northshore]

I'm saying a terrorist in a squeaker.

Had he blown up the building at 1 am on a Sunday, he would go into the Patriot category. I think that killing a bunch of ordinary citizens who were only trying to get service from the government was way too much.

[therising]

Again, At what point do you pick up a gun and defend the rights you're forefathers bled and died for?

Are you ****ing kidding me with this poll??

What does blowing up a building of innocent people have to do with "defending the rights your forefathers died for"??

[Stevenco]

Amazing the thought processes of people.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Amazing the thought processes of people.

What's really, really amazing is that four people in the poll actually think McVeigh is a patriot!!!!!!!! :eek:

[therising]

Our Gov. has a long history of inflicting terror upon our own people, much less the rest of the world. First we bring disease to this land, killing thousands. Then when our population grows we exterminate the Native Americans. We put American citizens in camps just because they had a little Jap in them, and we allowed countries like Russia to conduct the greatest holocaust in history when Stalin killed millions after WW2. I am not a proponent of McVeigh. I know I sound like it now, but each of us has a piont in which we will say enough. When is that point for you. Does the Gov. have to touch you're lives individually before you will act in some way, or is a true cause enough. McVeigh's cause was because the gov. violated the Constitution by using the military against its own citizens. After fighting and killing for the Constitution in Iraq. Are you aware the he recieved the Bronse Medal for heroism? I'm sure Mcveigh thought if they will do it to Waco, they will do it to us. Then he acted. Everyone condems the fact that children died, me to. However, how many kids have we killed this year in Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, or even the African American Slaves and Native Americans? does you're kid have to die at the hands of the US gov. before you say you will act. Or are you a patriot like McVeigh willing to stand up to tearany and opression that he witnessed on that day in Waco.

I have a long history of getting cut off by other drivers on the Kensington. Maybe, tomorrow, I should take things in my own hands and plow my car into a random vehicle, slamming them off the road. 'Cause like you said, at some point, you have to stand up for your rights!!:rolleyes:

[steven]

I have a long history of getting cut off by other drivers on the Kensington. Maybe, tomorrow, I should take things in my own hands and plow my car into a random vehicle, slamming them off the road. 'Cause like you said, at some point, you have to stand up for your rights!!:rolleyes:

I'll do it with you, that way there will be two of us and we can start our own bona fide group.

We can call ourselves the highway freedom fighters

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm I Wonder if we can get 501c3 status:cool:

[FJB]

The problem here is that you and the rest of the naysayers don't believe in anything greater than you're selves. You most likely never served in the military. Never killed anyone in battle or otherwise. Someday you're freedom will mean something more to you than a conveniance. Only when you're broke, looking for a job that is no longer there, remembering the lives you took or helped take in the name of freedom will you care about the constitution. Those of us who served and killed, watched as our friends died next to us, truely understand what I am talking about. This poll was meant to find out how many people in our community have woaken up to the abuse that our government has taken upon us. McViegh seen that ten years ago and acted. The earlier writer was right. I said as well before. Had he blown the building up at 1am he would be percieved differently. Don't let the death toll mark the symbolic act. Sometimes the true patriot is the person willing to act against the popular opinion. Willing to give thier life just to call attention to a cause. My heart goes out to the families of each family who lost a child or loved one during that day. However inocent lives are lost in the quest for true freedom. Iraq is a perfect example. You can't call McViegh a terrorist when the U.S. blows up kids in Iraq everyday and calls it freedom!!

[Ragin]

FJB

You don't sound any more patriotic than the terrorists you support

You scare the hell out of me

[steven]

fjb are you a primary challenge candidate?

[300miles]

Sometimes the true patriot is the person willing to act against the popular opinion. Willing to give thier life just to call attention to a cause. My heart goes out to the families of each family who lost a child or loved one during that day. However inocent lives are lost in the quest for true freedom.
FJB - clearly our lives are expendable to whatever you think your cause is.

How much would you act on your words? Are we all in danger? Should we call in sick tomorrow?... keep our kids home from school? Stay away from bridges and big buildings?

Is this how you see your "patiotism" in action.... terrorizing your own countrymen?? Killing them just to make a point??

[WNYresident]

Again, At what point do you pick up a gun and defend the rights you're forefathers bled and died for?

You do that with a gun in hand not a bomb in a truck.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

The problem here is that you and the rest of the naysayers don't believe in anything greater than you're selves. You most likely never served in the military. Never killed anyone in battle or otherwise. Someday you're freedom will mean something more to you than a conveniance. Only when you're broke, looking for a job that is no longer there, remembering the lives you took or helped take in the name of freedom will you care about the constitution. Those of us who served and killed, watched as our friends died next to us, truely understand what I am talking about. This poll was meant to find out how many people in our community have woaken up to the abuse that our government has taken upon us. McViegh seen that ten years ago and acted. The earlier writer was right. I said as well before. Had he blown the building up at 1am he would be percieved differently. Don't let the death toll mark the symbolic act. Sometimes the true patriot is the person willing to act against the popular opinion. Willing to give thier life just to call attention to a cause. My heart goes out to the families of each family who lost a child or loved one during that day. However inocent lives are lost in the quest for true freedom. Iraq is a perfect example. You can't call McViegh a terrorist when the U.S. blows up kids in Iraq everyday and calls it freedom!!

Just for the record: McVeigh did not "willingly" give up his life to call attention to a cause. He fled and was hunted down. Some kind of hero.

[DR_GONZO]

I can't believe this thread is still going. I bet I know someone who, if not already, will be wiretapped after this.

[steven]

fjb I noticed you posted in the PC section "we're Back" are you a primary challenge candidate or part of the new pc leadership?

[Dino330]

Sure! McVeigh was a hero to the little man, just like Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, the Unibomber, the Boston Strangler, a nun rapist, Jason Vorhees, and Michael Jackson.

FJB, are you nuts? What are you trying to do here, recruit for a new Lackawanna Six? You gonna blow up the Niagara Power Plant? Torch city hall? Squeeze the Charmin?

I never thought I'd say this, but thank God for the Patriot Act. Somebody needs to keep an eye on you, Sparky.

[FJB]

As I just wrote a to a reader in a private message, This thread was meant to get people to respond. I don't believe McViegh was a hero at all. But this community has sat back and done little to become involved with thier government. My hope was to stir up enough passion that the reader here would think about becoming involved in thier government. It has occured to me that most of us have become so comfortable with our lives that we allow our elected officials to change whatever laws and even the constitution as they wish. Much of this time it is towards removing any avenue for you or I to readdress our gov. on the issues we disagree with. This is what I believe McViegh was thinking. We are all just one major issue away from becoming a terrorist. For instance, if you're child or someone special to you was killed or held improperly, what lengths would you go for justice. You're participation in a peaceful resolution can end up in you being labled a terrorist or nut case just as quick as a nonpeaceful one. Just as you all labled me for the comments here in this thread. Has our community grown so paranoid that anyone with a desenting oppinion is to be ostricized and subjected to ridicule. Every reader should start looking between the lines. I am not you're enemy, I'm you're friend. I want this country to succeed. But just like Rome we are crumbling in upon ourselves, and sitting back and watching it happen instead of trying to stop it. Join Primary Challange and find out how you can be a part of the solution to this problem, and say McViegh drove you to it!

[Dino330]

A change to the constitution is called an Amendment. Without amendments, women could not vote and we'd still have slavery. The Bill of Rights is the first ten changes to the constitution, you know.

There's a way to ask how far you can be pushed without trying to make a hero out of a psychotic murderer.

[FJB]

Be careful, You're starting to sound like a person who is on the edge. Should we all be worried about you becoming a terrorist? You're tone is hostle!

[Ragin]

FJB

Dino's tone is far from hostile.

On the contrary, it is you who sounds like a person who is on the edge.

Should we all be worried about you becoming a terrorist?

[Ragin]

FJB ..

Also .. you have avoided answering a question that has been posed to you two times now ...

are you a primary challenge candidate or part of the new pc leadership?

[FJB]

Call P.C. and find out!!!

[Ragin]

Why should I need to call PC? You're right here.

Sounds like you're still avoiding the question.

[FJB]

Because I don't reveal myself to a person who spends most of her time on suicide watch!! At least thats what I heard.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

As I just wrote a to a reader in a private message, This thread was meant to get people to respond. I don't believe McViegh was a hero at all. But this community has sat back and done little to become involved with thier government. My hope was to stir up enough passion that the reader here would think about becoming involved in thier government. It has occured to me that most of us have become so comfortable with our lives that we allow our elected officials to change whatever laws and even the constitution as they wish. Much of this time it is towards removing any avenue for you or I to readdress our gov. on the issues we disagree with. This is what I believe McViegh was thinking. We are all just one major issue away from becoming a terrorist. For instance, if you're child or someone special to you was killed or held improperly, what lengths would you go for justice. You're participation in a peaceful resolution can end up in you being labled a terrorist or nut case just as quick as a nonpeaceful one. Just as you all labled me for the comments here in this thread. Has our community grown so paranoid that anyone with a desenting oppinion is to be ostricized and subjected to ridicule. Every reader should start looking between the lines. I am not you're enemy, I'm you're friend. I want this country to succeed. But just like Rome we are crumbling in upon ourselves, and sitting back and watching it happen instead of trying to stop it. Join Primary Challange and find out how you can be a part of the solution to this problem, and say McViegh drove you to it!



In an earlier message, you talked about the war against Iraq and how the Americans were murdering Iraqi people in order to justify bombing or otherwise commiting mayhem on Americans. I am vehemently against the war in Iraq -- but I would never kill my own citizens to express my anger. That is terrorism, not patriotism. Dissent is one thing, murder another.

If you are what Primary Challenge is about, I pity the organization.

[tgace]

I cant believe that 13 people voted this murdering terrorist a hero.

[300miles]

Has our community grown so paranoid that anyone with a desenting oppinion is to be ostricized and subjected to ridicule
When your dissenting opinion involves mass murder .... then yes I think our response was very justified.

You should not have to resort to violence and murder just to get people motivated. That's what your description of McVeigh resorted to, basically saying: If you want to wake up the country go blow up a few thousand innocent people.

And now you expect people to join you in your efforts for Erie County?

You may want to start over!

[atotaltotalfan2001]

I cant believe that 13 people voted this murdering terrorist a hero.

Me neither. Maybe it's the same person posting under different names and voting. I hope so.

[Stevenco]

Well if you're referring to me, you're wrong again. Twice. Twice in one sentence.
I didn't post under any other name. Unless I did it in my sleep. Find it and show it to me. Better yet, get the admin. to find it and show it to me. And , of course, I didn't rig this poll.

Now I understand what she meant by your reputation. I gave you the benefit of the doubt at first.

[Dino330]

Because I don't reveal myself to a person who spends most of her time on suicide watch!! At least thats what I heard.You're obviously some sort of wack job. The only person who should be watched for suicide is you, so you don't blow yourself up out in front of county hall. Do you really think you'll get a thousand virgins in the afterlife?

[Ragin]

Me neither. Maybe it's the same person posting under different names and voting. I hope so.

I suspect the poll results were rigged .. most likely by FBJ or one of his terrorist sympathizers.

[Ragin]

Well if you're referring to me, you're wrong again. Twice. Twice in one sentence.
I didn't post under any other name. Unless I did it in my sleep. Find it and show it to me. Better yet, get the admin. to find it and show it to me. And , of course, I didn't rig this poll.

Now I understand what she meant by your reputation. I gave you the benefit of the doubt at first.

Stevenco .. fwiw, I don't believe you rigged the poll and I don't think TTF was alluding to you, either

[Stevenco]

trust me. she was.

see rep power thead.

[steven]

FJB I noticed you posted in the PC section "we're Back" as if you are leadership or a candidate for pc.

Are you a primary challenge candidate or part of the new pc leadership?

[Stevenco]

FJB es loco.:confused:

[tgace]

How difficult is it to keep making different profiles so you can vote multiple times? Im hoping thats whats going on here...

[atotaltotalfan2001]

trust me. she was.

see rep power thead.

What???? No way I was referring to you.

I said in the rep power thread that in my household you'd get a time out or lose a privilege for acting the way you have been on that particular subjecgt. (Anyone who has ever dealt with toddlers, pre-schoolers etc. knows all about those techniques!)

I didn't say I'd malign your reputation by associating you with whoever the wacko is who started the poll or by falsely accusing you of some new misdeed.

That would be pretty dishonest of me, which is trait you have no cause to accuse me of.

[Stevenco]

Good answer now that you know it wasn't me. Okay, TT, who is posting under different usernames, then, other than the accused (me) on another thread you chimed in on? Who?

Like I said, see rep power thread. The admin. promised me shortly he would clear things up. Clearly you sided with him without ANY facts to speak of.
He will be out here shortly ( or at least he said he would be) to admit his mistake.

Great answer.




Much different than, "to think I actually listened to you."

[Ragin]

Because I don't reveal myself to a person who spends most of her time on suicide watch!! At least thats what I heard.

FJB

Sorry to bust your bubble, but you've been misinformed. You should really scrutinize your sources and do your own fact finding before you make statements you surly can't back up. You don't know me or anything about me, and if your source is who I believe it is, he knows less and should be putting his efforts into something more productive then spreading rumors and gossip. Sounds like he's still po'd at me because I didn't fall for his crap either. Geez ... get over it already! :rolleyes:

But you, FJB, have crossed the line with me and there is absolutely nothing you could say that could prove you have any credibility. Your posts reveal that you are nothing but a terrorist sympathizer and anti-American.
Killing innocent civilians to further some cause that you are on is neither patriotic nor the thoughts of a mentally stable person!!

To think you represent Primary Challenge is inconceivable and I will be the first to inform voters what your organization, if that's what you call it, is truly all about.

[FJB]

Dear Ragin,
I apologize for the the nasty coment. I should not throw the stones I despize myself. As for the rest, do what you want. P.C. is much bigger than 1 person and there is no way you could stop it or bring it down.:) 14 votes and counting. I guess people are waking to the facts I presented!!

[atotaltotalfan2001]

FJB

Sorry to bust your bubble, but you've been misinformed. You should really scrutinize your sources and do your own fact finding before you make statements you surly can't back up. You don't know me or anything about me, and if your source is who I believe it is, he knows less and should be putting his efforts into something more productive then spreading rumors and gossip. Sounds like he's still po'd at me because I didn't fall for his crap either. Geez ... get over it already! :rolleyes:

But you, FJB, have crossed the line with me and there is absolutely nothing you could say that could prove you have any credibility. Your posts reveal that you are nothing but a terrorist sympathizer and anti-American.
Killing innocent civilians to further some cause that you are on is neither patriotic nor the thoughts of a mentally stable person!!

To think you represent Primary Challenge is inconceivable and I will be the first to inform voters what your organization, if that's what you call it, is truly all about.

Good job. My feelings exactly. Now I would like to hear from the leadership of Primary Challenge, using real names, thank you, about whether this person truly represents the group.

[therising]

Admin - Without divulging how anyone voted, can you, at least, tell us, if the new members who registered in the past few days have voted in this poll? You also do have a way of checking to see that they're not the same person, right?

[WNYresident]

Admin - Without divulging how anyone voted, can you, at least, tell us, if the new members who registered in the past few days have voted in this poll? You also do have a way of checking to see that they're not the same person, right?

Looks like random users in general voted... not just new members and mostly guest voted...

[steven]

I thought guests couldnt vote or post unless they got a screen name
:confused:

[therising]

Seriously, guests can vote??? :confused:

[WNYresident]

Yes like since day one. Only once seeing it's based on cookies and stuff.

A guest can't go vote over and over and over and over.

[mikewrona]

It looks like the Amherst blogging sickness is spreading. It's a new "bird flu."

[300miles]

Yes like since day one. Only once seeing it's based on cookies and stuff.

A guest can't go vote over and over and over and over.
Not true. A guest can vote multiple times if they know what they're doing. I just logged out and voted as a guest 3 times for 'terrorist'. You can probably see that in my IP. (Anyone who wants to know how, forget it I won't tell you. Neener Neener :P )

So probably any poll that seems very skewed is done via Guest. This is not a downfall of this site though. Most online polls can be manipulated the same way. That's why most cannot claim to be scientific - statistically.

[Ragin]

Yes like since day one. Only once seeing it's based on cookies and stuff.

A guest can't go vote over and over and over and over.

sure they can .. just clear their cookies. There's no other explaination for the sudden jump in Tim McVeigh supporters in the last six hours :rolleyes:

[Stevenco]

That's it. Tell everyone how to do it.:rolleyes:


WNYR, you need to drop a hidden cookie that "internet options" won't clear.
You can do this. You already had it in place for the thread rating feature.

[buffy]

stevenco, you need to clear your mailbox sweetie

[Ragin]

That's it. Tell everyone how to do it.:rolleyes:

I think they already knew that ... judging by these poll results :D

[Stevenco]

All it took, actually, was for 1 person to know how, but since the cat's out of the bag:
Go to "tools" - internet options- and then delete cookies. for internet explorer.

Once the admin.'s webguy figures out how to fix that, there are still ways, there are ways to spook your IP so you CANT physically be banned.
And there are utilities that will clear the cookies and things that your browser won't.

PURGEIE.COM

[Stevenco]

Maybe FJB meant "terrorist" or "zero".

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Not true. A guest can vote multiple times if they know what they're doing. I just logged out and voted as a guest 3 times for 'terrorist'. You can probably see that in my IP. (Anyone who wants to know how, forget it I won't tell you. Neener Neener :P )

So probably any poll that seems very skewed is done via Guest. This is not a downfall of this site though. Most online polls can be manipulated the same way. That's why most cannot claim to be scientific - statistically.

Thanks for this message. When I last looked at the number of McVeigh-as-patriot votes, I literally thought I was going to be sick. I feel better now, thank you.

[Stevenco]

I'd say all polls are invalid until the admin. does something to correct the situation.

[Linda_D]

Yes he killed people. Obviosly, but did he respond to a government using military force to subdue a peaceful group they didn't agree with? My question to you is, at what point do you pick up a gun and fight for the rights that you're forefathers bled and died for? Although Tim Mcveigh's response to government oppression was misguided, the saying that "From time to time it takes the blood of patriots to preserve the freedoms we enjoy" has never been more true.

So, if McVeigh and Nichols were so angry at the US government, why didn't they attack that part of the US government that was supposedly abusing its power like attacking an Army base? shooting up the US Congress? bombing the White House? Why did they attack an office building filled with children, secretaries, and other ordinary people just making their livings? They were no better than the 9/11 bombers (none of whom were Palestinians, btw).

As for the rest of your bull manure, my ancestors didn't fight and die so that some delusional, gun-obsessed malcontent could blow up 168 people in the name of "avenging the oppression" of an even sicker, child-molesting cult leader and his brain-washed followers.

[DR_GONZO]

Originally Posted by Linda_D
my ancestors didn't fight and die so that some delusional, gun-obsessed malcontent could blow up 168 people in the name of "avenging the oppression" of an even sicker, child-molesting cult leader and his brain-washed followers.

Well said!!!!!:)

[Ragin]

So, if McVeigh and Nichols were so angry at the US government, why didn't they attack that part of the US government that was supposedly abusing its power like attacking an Army base? shooting up the US Congress? bombing the White House? Why did they attack an office building filled with children, secretaries, and other ordinary people just making their livings? They were no better than the 9/11 bombers (none of whom were Palestinians, btw).

As for the rest of your bull manure, my ancestors didn't fight and die so that some delusional, gun-obsessed malcontent could blow up 168 people in the name of "avenging the oppression" of an even sicker, child-molesting cult leader and his brain-washed followers.

Linda_D

You go, girl! Great post!

[crlachepinochet]

So, if McVeigh and Nichols were so angry at the US government, why didn't they attack that part of the US government that was supposedly abusing its power like attacking an Army base? shooting up the US Congress? bombing the White House? Why did they attack an office building filled with children, secretaries, and other ordinary people just making their livings? They were no better than the 9/11 bombers (none of whom were Palestinians, btw).

As for the rest of your bull manure, my ancestors didn't fight and die so that some delusional, gun-obsessed malcontent could blow up 168 people in the name of "avenging the oppression" of an even sicker, child-molesting cult leader and his brain-washed followers.

I don´t know if it makes him more or less of a monster, but McVeigh put a lot of thought into planning the attack. I just had a chance to read some Snooze reporter´s book about McVeigh (American Terrorist IIRC?). He seemed to be skirting the ¨sanity line¨ for a while. He was anti-gov´t even before joining the military; he did it so he could show off his ¨survival skills¨. He thought the gov´t implanted a tracking chip in his butt (literally) while he was in the service. After serving, he had the Army ask for some of his pay back because of some computer error that gave him too much $. You can probably imagine what this did to his ideology-- I think the money he had to pay back forced him to live out of his car for a while. He identified with the Branch Davidians, and became obsessed with the news coverage of their standoff. He was actually camping out in Waco selling t-shirts and handing out anti-gov´t pamphlets in Waco. He picked OKC after scouting several locations that housed offices for parts of the gov´t that he thought screwed him over. I think there were Army, FBI and ATF offices in the Murrah Bldg. Supposedly, McVeigh didn´t know about the large day care.

I can see how it might be tempting to sympathize with McVeigh with all of the ¨cast off an unjust gov´t¨ language present at the founding of the country. That being said, you cannot rightly condone his course of action. To compare him to the Founding Fathers shows a frightening lack of awareness... of the context, of history, of the present day.

[FJB]

Good reply

[WNYresident]

Call P.C. and find out!!!

Just answer her question. Is that so hard to do.

[Stevenco]

130 people voted on this poll or it has been hacked. I can't believe 130 people would vote on such an inane poll. Even moadib would have been unimpressed. Voting for your favorite cereal is more relevant to the pressing issues of WNY.

[Dino330]

I'd say Honeycomb or Wheaties. Wheaties are great after you sprinkle sugar on them. Honeycombs are great without the added sugar and there's usually a prize inside.

The prize is always deliciousness.

[crlachepinochet]

Is there a "random post" contest going on that I don´t know about?

[Dino330]

No, I was just trying to be funny by responding to Stevenco's "cereal is more relevant" response. Looks like I failed miserably.

[Stevenco]

Is there a "random post" contest going on that I don´t know about?Yes, there is. What's that got to do with the price of :confused: :) :cool: :eek: :D :mad: in Helsinki?