Retroactive Taxation..A cure for pension ills?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Unless you have been living under a rock, you have read about the plan from Congress to tax the bonus money for AIG employees. This is because AIG is contractually obligated to give these bonuses.

The plan is pretty simple:
Currently, the IRS withholds 25 percent from bonuses of less than $1 million and 35 percent for bonuses that are greater. Israel said his proposal would tax bonuses of more than $100,000 disbursed to employees of companies receiving funds from the government's Troubled Asset Relief Program. Bonuses would be taxed beginning with those disbursed this year.

This plan sets an interesting precedent where the Government goes after abuse of taxpayer funds via unique and specific taxation policy.

Currently ten states exclude all federal, state and local pension income from taxation – Alabama, Hawaii, Illinois, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, New York and Pennsylvania.

I wonder what tax policy could be created for those who are obviously abusing the taxpayer like the AIG employees?

Maybe the exclusion of taxation on pensions only covers those who live in the state where their pension is from.

Maybe pensions that are over $75k, similar to the $100k bonus rule for AIG, are taxed at full income. Under $75k, you are given a full tax shelter regardless of where you live.

[Dougles]

Unless you have been living under a rock, you have read about the plan from Congress to tax the bonus money for AIG employees. This is because AIG is contractually obligated to give these bonuses.

The plan is pretty simple:
Currently, the IRS withholds 25 percent from bonuses of less than $1 million and 35 percent for bonuses that are greater. Israel said his proposal would tax bonuses of more than $100,000 disbursed to employees of companies receiving funds from the government's Troubled Asset Relief Program. Bonuses would be taxed beginning with those disbursed this year.

This plan sets an interesting precedent where the Government goes after abuse of taxpayer funds via unique and specific taxation policy.

Currently ten states exclude all federal, state and local pension income from taxation – Alabama, Hawaii, Illinois, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, New York and Pennsylvania.

I wonder what tax policy could be created for those who are obviously abusing the taxpayer like the AIG employees?

Maybe the exclusion of taxation on pensions only covers those who live in the state where their pension is from.

Maybe pensions that are over $75k, similar to the $100k bonus rule for AIG, are taxed at full income. Under $75k, you are given a full tax shelter regardless of where you live.


Nope i think if you get a NYS pension you should pay the full 7% of NYS income tax even if you live in FL or AZ!! These vultures pay what 1 or 2% of their pension costs and leave the rest on the Private sector to pay their living!

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Nope i think if you get a NYS pension you should pay the full 7% of NYS income tax even if you live in FL or AZ!! These vultures pay what 1 or 2% of their pension costs and leave the rest on the Private sector to pay their living!


Going after the pensions of every retired worker in NYS would be political suicide.

The tax shelter was created when pensions were small and states are generally free from federal control in deciding how to tax pensions, but some limits apply.

But the reality is the pension time bomb is going to go off if nothing is done. With the length of retirement only increasing, due to advancements in medical care, the burden is becoming worse and worse every year. Add to that, the flight of residents from high taxed states...you should be able to see the picture.

The median income for a 2 person family in New York is around $30k. New York could pass legislation that pensions that are TRIPLE the median income are subject to taxation. THAT IS TRIPLE WHAT THE AVERAGE COUPLE MAKES WHO ARE FORCED TO SUPPORT THE SYSTEM.

Something like this would only impact 25 out of the 27,180 pensions listed on the Buffalo News database. That is much less than 1%. Remember how people love to tax the top 1%. Make them pay their "fair share" and all.

This would also set a cap for people to scam the system...even legally. As they would have a benchmark not to cross.

I mean fair is fair....right? Screw those 1% people.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Additional note.


If you were to consider pensions that are DOUBLE the median income of NYS about 2% of the pensions would be removed from the tax bracket.

That 2% should could go a long way to helping educate kids, support medical insurance for those without coverage, abused mothers, feed children...man the good that could be done!

[Dougles]

Additional note.


If you were to consider pensions that are DOUBLE the median income of NYS about 2% of the pensions would be removed from the tax bracket.

That 2% should could go a long way to helping educate kids, support medical insurance for those without coverage, abused mothers, feed children...man the good that could be done!


What if you went as far as taxing ever cent above the 30K line!

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

What if you went as far as taxing ever cent above the 30K line!


1- It would never ever happen
2- 30k for a pension is not that much
3- People under 30k did not abuse the system


The tax shelter was created when pensions were not that much. Unions of course over time have found ways to scam the system or put loopholes in the contracts to increase non-working wealth.

[Dougles]

1- It would never ever happen
2- 30k for a pension is not that much
3- People under 30k did not abuse the system


The tax shelter was created when pensions were not that much. Unions of course over time have found ways to scam the system or put loopholes in the contracts to increase non-working wealth.

I think their should also be a clause stating that if you maintain a primary residence in NYS you can get 100% but if you dont you only get 50%. It time for my money to stop going to fund other states!

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I think their should also be a clause stating that if you maintain a primary residence in NYS you can get 100% but if you dont you only get 50%. It time for my money to stop going to fund other states!


I do not care where they live.

My point in creating this thread was to use the logic of Democrats against one of their biggest supporters.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

What if you went as far as taxing ever cent above the 30K line!


Never going to happen.

A 30k pension is not that much.

[Dougles]

Never going to happen.

A 30k pension is not that much.


Yeah but it's more than I'll EVER be guarenteed!!! I have to rely on MY own payments into my 401K, I don't have other people paying my tax free retirement!

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Yeah but it's more than I'll EVER be guarenteed!!! I have to rely on MY own payments into my 401K, I don't have other people paying my tax free retirement!


If you want the pension...take the job.

When you move the conversation away from abuse to everyone...you give up the high ground.

The Fed is not going after everyone at AIG...just those who are getting a bonus over $100k IIRC.

The point of this was to say...if they can do it to AIG in light of obvious abuse...they should do it to obvious pension abuse.

[Dougles]

If you want the pension...take the job.

When you move the conversation away from abuse to everyone...you give up the high ground.

The Fed is not going after everyone at AIG...just those who are getting a bonus over $100k IIRC.

The point of this was to say...if they can do it to AIG in light of obvious abuse...they should do it to obvious pension abuse.

Have you read anything about the AIG situation?? In fact when Timmy G wrote the bailouts for AIG, he SPECIFICALLY made a clause that said any empolyement contracts made before this WERE TO BE HONORED. So all these retention bonus's the OBAMA admin knew about ahead of time! AIG is not to blame for this GEITHNER is.

To be honest their has been one name behind all of the economic problems of the last 15 years.... GEITHER.

PS. I would never take a govt job. I make more than i could get paid working for the state, plus i don't need a hand out. Second i like putting in hard work ever day and not slacking off!

Personally i feel their are many life lessons you can learn by running your own retirement plan and not a state run pension. Like how to budget and live within your means. Plus the sence of pride that you did it on your own and didnt mooch off of the taxpayer!

[dtwarren]

Question:

Should we pay the state employees a lower wage and exempt them from state income taxes or should we continue to pay them a higher rate and impose state income taxes?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Question:

Should we pay the state employees a lower wage and exempt them from state income taxes or should we continue to pay them a higher rate and impose state income taxes?


Good question...IDK.

I do think that a lot of workers are under paid when it comes to their base pay. But you can not change the base pay, under the current system, without opening up the opportunity for an explosion in pension cost.

In the next 10 years or so, half of the budget is going to go to non producing pension and benefit costs. It is pretty close to that right now.

When 50 cents on the dollar is spent before a single product or service is produced...it is impossible to stay afloat.

[Dougles]

Question:

Should we pay the state employees a lower wage and exempt them from state income taxes or should we continue to pay them a higher rate and impose state income taxes?

I actually thought about that years ago, instead of paying them so much don't tax them, or better yet, don't tax us for the pension and use that 7% to fund their pension!!!

[grump]

Better change the state constitution if you want to tax state pensions. that's where the protection of state pensions is found.

[Cgoodsp466]

1- It would never ever happen
2- 30k for a pension is not that much
3- People under 30k did not abuse the system


The tax shelter was created when pensions were not that much. Unions of course over time have found ways to scam the system or put loopholes in the contracts to increase non-working wealth.

If you were a free cheeser you abused my system and now I want to abuse you,tax the hell out of these freeloaders.

[Cgoodsp466]

Question:

Should we pay the state employees a lower wage and exempt them from state income taxes or should we continue to pay them a higher rate and impose state income taxes?

With the exceptions of police and fire I say we get rid of all of em.Privateize we dont need the freecheesers,Just look at the toll collectors if you want to see how I am speaking the truth. Tell me Blue Rjino becuase some freecheese bastard cant make it in my world why doe he slide on taxes and us real folks pay? This should be good.

[Smiley]

Toll collectors...get rid of the tolls...police and fire keep...now the problem comes in hiring private sector companies to do other functions. Contracts with the companies would be specific to what they they are getting paid for. So if something comes up that is not specified for them to do, they just walk away and say "not my job." Who would do what needs to be done?

UB ran into this problem, when they tried to contract out the custodial functions to a number of different private sector companies. They built new buildings and then hired private sector companies to to clean and manage the custodial functions. Then other issues came into play and the private companies took a hands off approach because that wasn't in their contract. UB had to scramble to get other state employees to handle the issue. So they modified the contract. Costs went up, UB lost control on how they wanted the job done. So now they are getting rid of the private companies and hiring state workers to do the job. Why? Even though the wages and benefits paid to the state workers are now going to be paid, it is cheaper..yes I said cheaper, then having it done by the private sector companies and they have control. They had more then one company there so no one would have a monopoly.

[Cgoodsp466]

Toll collectors...get rid of the tolls...police and fire keep...now the problem comes in hiring private sector companies to do other functions. Contracts with the companies would be specific to what they they are getting paid for. So if something comes up that is not specified for them to do, they just walk away and say "not my job." Who would do what needs to be done?

UB ran into this problem, when they tried to contract out the custodial functions to a number of different private sector companies. They built new buildings and then hired private sector companies to to clean and manage the custodial functions. Then other issues came into play and the private companies took a hands off approach because that wasn't in their contract. UB had to scramble to get other state employees to handle the issue. So they modified the contract. Costs went up, UB lost control on how they wanted the job done. So now they are getting rid of the private companies and hiring state workers to do the job. Why? Even though the wages and benefits paid to the state workers are now going to be paid, it is cheaper..yes I said cheaper, then having it done by the private sector companies and they have control. They had more then one company there so no one would have a monopoly.

How do you controll an over paid monkey? You cant fire em like you can in the private sector. Hey was that Toll taker on the GI bridge CSEA?

[Smiley]

How do you controll an over paid monkey? You cant fire em like you can in the private sector. Hey was that Toll taker on the GI bridge CSEA?

In this case, which monkey are you refering to? Private or public :p CSEA Don't represent toll takers. The private monkeys weren't doing what UB thought they would and they ended up paying through the nose. Now the public........

[Save Us]

If you were a free cheeser you abused my system and now I want to abuse you,tax the hell out of these freeloaders.


With more and more news comming out about how the citizenry is taking it you know where,,,,I'll go with private enterprise every time.

It's funny and sad how people easily forget what makes this country function....

private enterprise......period!

[keyboard150]

As far as I know, newer NYS workers are in a different pension bracket which will require them to pay taxes on their pension. I know that doesn't help with the people that are abusing the system and already collecting a pension, but at least you know that it will eventually stabilize a bit.

[Smiley]

As far as I know, newer NYS workers are in a different pension bracket which will require them to pay taxes on their pension. I know that doesn't help with the people that are abusing the system and already collecting a pension, but at least you know that it will eventually stabilize a bit.

The State is in the process of creating the new tier 5 retirement system. Currently it doesn't have a start date.