Views from the Left

[LHardy]

Oct 12, 4:24 PM (ET)

By MATTIAS KAREN

(AP) Former US Vice President Al Gore speaks at an economic forum in Stockholm, Sweden,Wednesday Oct....
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STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - Former Vice President Al Gore said Wednesday he had no intention of ever running for president again, but he said the United States would be "a different country" if he had won the 2000 election, launching into a scathing attack of the Bush administration.

"I have absolutely no plans and no expectations of ever being a candidate again," Gore told reporters after giving a speech at an economic forum in Sweden.

When asked how the United States would have been different if he had become president, though, he had harsh criticism for Bush's policies.

"We would not have invaded a country that didn't attack us," he said, referring to Iraq. "We would not have taken money from the working families and given it to the most wealthy families."

"We would not be trying to control and intimidate the news media. We would not be routinely torturing people," Gore said. "We would be a different country."

Gore did not elaborate. But last year, he blamed Bush administration policies for the inmate abuse scandal at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

Mike Feldman, Gore's spokesman, did not immediately comment on Gore's remark when reached by phone in Washington.

Gore also reiterated his criticism that the Bush administration was too slow in responding to the crisis in New Orleans after the city's levees failed during Hurricane Katrina. He said that should have been predicted.

"There were specific warnings that the levees might break," he said. "But for whatever reason those warnings were not acted upon in a timely way."

He said the United States and other countries are similarly ignoring the threats that global warning pose to the environment.

"My country is extremely attentive to the slightest increase in a risk from terror, and that's appropriate," he said. "But why should we be so tolerant of risk where the future habitability of our planet is concerned?" I can't help myself here, You can't be serious?

Gore, who now runs a cable TV channel and is the chairman of an investment company, did not completely shut the door to future political endeavors.

"I don't completely rule out some future interest, but I don't expect to have that," Gore said.

He declined to comment on New York Sen. Hillary Clinton's possible run for the White House in 2008, but he said he believes the country is ready for a female president.

"Of course a woman could get elected president," he said. "I am not going to make any comment on individual candidates. It's quite premature."
complete article
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051012/D8D6N2081.html

[LHardy]

Democrats in the entertainment industry, who started the year fatigued and frustrated following their unsuccessful effort to elect John Kerry, have been emboldened by recent political setbacks for President George W. Bush and other Republicans, and they're planning no fewer than three fund-raisers during the New York senator's West Coast trip.

Events include a $500-per-person reception at the home of Rob Reiner and a $1,000-per-person brunch hosted by film producers Bruce Cohen and Dan Jinks. Television producer Marta Kauffman will also welcome Clinton to her home for a fund-raiser.

Coin raised on this trip will go to Clinton's 2006 re-election campaign in New York. But speculation on a presidential bid is picking up momentum.

http://www.nationalledger.com/scribe/article_27261135.shtml

[steven]

Bush is the best thing to happen a democratic party that might have imploded by itself if he didn't give them all something to stay together on.

Hillary aint run for pres guys I keep telling you all that. She is way to smart (Wiley?) for that. Look to the governors mansion, you heard it here first.
:cool:

[LHardy]

Look to the governors mansion, you heard it here first.

OK! Somebody mark that post! That is one way to the Whitehouse that works for most Prez.
But how to get rid of Spitzer or Galisano?

[steven]

Hey, thats not an endorsement ,LOL. I just think Hillary is smart enough to know a woman aint getting elected president in the USA any time soon.

I seriously doubt A woman or a minority will be elected president in my life time. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Has a women or minority every garnered even 10% of the vote???? not sure but I dont think so.

Now governor thats a race she knows she has a shot at.

[LHardy]

Now governor thats a race she knows she has a shot at.


Even though she has done absolutely nothing. NYS loves their Hillary. :confused:

[steven]

Poll Finds Growing Dislike for Pirro; Clinton Far Ahead

ALBANY — As more voters have gotten to know potential Senate candidate Jeanine Pirro, more have decided they don't like her, according to a new poll.

Pirro, the Westchester County district attorney who is running for the Republican nomination, would be crushed by Democratic Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton next year, according to a Siena Research Institute poll released Wednesday.

Voters favored Clinton over Pirro, 59 percent to 31 percent. Clinton leads the other best known potential Republican candidate, Edward Cox, 60 percent to 30 percent. Cox, a Manhattan lawyer, is the son-in-law of the late President Richard Nixon.

The poll of 613 registered voters was conducted Oct. 4-10. It has an error margin of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

http://wgrz.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=32289

[buffknut]

wow, a whole 613 registered voters. Gosh, that nails it right there.

Let's see, less than half of registered voters actually vote.

C'mon, how many people actually have even heard of Pirro yet outside Westchester Co.

Why would anyone want Hillary for anything? Name one thing she has actually done for WNY. Name one.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by buffknut
Why would anyone want Hillary for anything? Name one thing she has actually done for WNY. Name one.

I love when people ask this question, and not even necessarily about Hillary. Most people don't know what ANY politician has done period. Even GWB, aside from taking us to war, supporting Jesus, and nominating anti-abortion judges to the Supreme court, most people can't name a damn thing he's done in office.

So why don't you start naming some things. What has GWB done for WNY? What has pataki done for WNY? What has Giambra done for WNY?

Nothing good, I can tell you that much.

So who did you vote for? Lazio? What a joke.

[LHardy]

Erieman;I love when people ask this question, and not even necessarily about Hillary.

buffknut;Why would anyone want Hillary for anything? Name one thing she has actually done for WNY. Name one.

Nope I'd say that question is exactly about Hillary

Come on Erieman you can do better then avoid the question. This question isn't about GWB. He has nothing to do with NYS. Besides if Hillary was an EC legislator you would be ticked at her inaction.
So do you say you will vote for Hillary? Even though she has done absolutely nothing for us in NYS. She is using us as a stepping stone and we get to pay for that privilage.
I would really like to know what she has done?
Anyone? Anyone at all?
200,000 jobs? Nope.
Hey I'm at a loss. What has she done? :confused:

[steven]

Originally posted by buffknut
wow, a whole 613 registered voters. Gosh, that nails it right there.


Its a poll buffnut.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by LHardy
Erieman;I love when people ask this question, and not even necessarily about Hillary.

buffknut;Why would anyone want Hillary for anything? Name one thing she has actually done for WNY. Name one.

Nope I'd say that question is exactly about Hillary

Come on Erieman you can do better then avoid the question. This question isn't about GWB. He has nothing to do with NYS. Besides if Hillary was an EC legislator you would be ticked at her inaction.
So do you say you will vote for Hillary? Even though she has done absolutely nothing for us in NYS. She is using us as a stepping stone and we get to pay for that privilage.
I would really like to know what she has done?
Anyone? Anyone at all?
200,000 jobs? Nope.
Hey I'm at a loss. What has she done? :confused:

I'm not "avoiding" the question at all. My point is that these people do things every single day that most people don't follow. Can you tell me what Pataki has done for WNY? Probably not, at least until you've done some research. Can you tell me what Schumer's done for WNY? Again, probably not until you've done some research.

The things these people do aren't as cut-and-dry as the things that GWB does. When he does something, it's front page news. When Clinton, Schumer, PAtaki, etc., does something, it's a small blurb on page A-10. You're not going to see "Hillary Clinton single-handedly turns buffalo into a business mecca" in the paper. All you see is the hundreds of little things that they do that are easily forgotten. It doesn't mean that they arent doing anything for the area. The same thing can be said of ALL NYS politicians. Can you tell me what D'Amato or Moynihan did?

All you need to do is go to her website. I'll even link you directly to the area that has the info you want to know:

http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/index.cfm

How many of thse things have you actually heard about? I've probably heard about 3 or 4 percent of the things she has listed. Compare that with any of the other politician's accomplishments, and you'll find that she's done no less than anyone else.

[LHardy]

After review of that Clinton site, I found a lot of declarations, proclamations and no action. What a wind bag!
I do agree that many of our NYS politicians are just as bad but she really has done nothing on her own for NYS.
I do disagree that she has done no less. She really has done less.
We need Politicians, all of them, to do more. More action and less talk.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by LHardy
After review of that Clinton site, I found a lot of declarations, proclamations and no action. What a wind bag!
I do agree that many of our NYS politicians are just as bad but she really has done nothing on her own for NYS.
I do disagree that she has done no less. She really has done less.
We need Politicians, all of them, to do more. More action and less talk.

That is very, very true. Politicians are a lot of talk.

Your statement about her not doing anything for NYS is bull****, though. You cannot say that within that list of "accomplishments", that none of it has benefitted NYS. I mean, that list starts in January of this year. I wonder how long that list would be had it started when she was elected.

You can dislike Hillary for a lot of things, but you can't compare her record with any other politician because it's all going to end up looking the same. Republican, democrat, independent - the ONLY difference between the parties is in the wording.

Instead, hate her for endorsing Byron Brown, like I do.....

[buffknut]

Let's see for GWB, in just the first 180 days of his second term, he got this through Congress (from www.polipundit.com - this was written in August so is a little dated but you can certainly go to the site yourself & check for updates over time. ):

1) They confirmed six conservative/constructionist appellate jurists, each of whom previously had been filibustered by Senate Democrats: Priscilla Owen, Janice Rogers Brown, William Pryor, David McKeague, Richard Griffin, and Thomas Griffith.

2) They passed a budget for the upcoming fiscal year in which: (i) the growth rate for Medi-caid spending was cut, (ii) the growth rates for various other federal spending programs (including farm subsidies, pension welfare, and tuition grants) were cut or completely frozen, and (iii) further small-business tax breaks were granted.

3) Product liability reform in favor of gun manufacturers and dealers was passed by the U.S. Senate. Given that approval by the U.S. House is an absolute certainty, it will be signed into law in due course.

4) The most “controversial” (according to the liberal media) free-trade statute in over a decade passed the full Congress and will be signed into law in due course.

5) The first slate of what eventually will be a series of conservative immigration and border control reforms were passed and signed into law.

6) RaTHer-comprehensive class action lawsuit reforms were passed and signed into law.

7) Comprehensive bankruptcy reforms were passed and signed into law.

8) Comprehensive energy policy reforms – including massive expansions of our nuclear, coal, and natural gas capabilities – were passed and will be signed into law in due course.

Regarding the seven major reform bills which have passed the entire Congress, the average margins have been:

House: 276-152.
Senate: 71-28. Note: Elections do matter!

Also, GWB has toppled the Taliban & Saddam & sowed the seeds for elections & a new constitution in Iraq (despite the left & media saying it couldn't be done). He also got John Bolton into the corrupt UN to help clean that up, and conservative John Roberts named to the SCOTUS.

Now I know that all the Bush haters would rather have Saddam in power & the UN in charge, and you hate everything Bush does, but the fact is he has done stuff.

Now tell me again one thing Hillary has actually done for WNY.

And don't sidestep. I never said Pataki & Giambra were of any help either. But the question had to do with Hillary.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by buffknut
Let's see for GWB, in just the first 180 days of his second term, he got this through Congress (from www.polipundit.com - this was written in August so is a little dated but you can certainly go to the site yourself & check for updates over time. ):

1) They confirmed six conservative/constructionist appellate jurists, each of whom previously had been filibustered by Senate Democrats: Priscilla Owen, Janice Rogers Brown, William Pryor, David McKeague, Richard Griffin, and Thomas Griffith.

2) They passed a budget for the upcoming fiscal year in which: (i) the growth rate for Medi-caid spending was cut, (ii) the growth rates for various other federal spending programs (including farm subsidies, pension welfare, and tuition grants) were cut or completely frozen, and (iii) further small-business tax breaks were granted.

3) Product liability reform in favor of gun manufacturers and dealers was passed by the U.S. Senate. Given that approval by the U.S. House is an absolute certainty, it will be signed into law in due course.

4) The most “controversial” (according to the liberal media) free-trade statute in over a decade passed the full Congress and will be signed into law in due course.

5) The first slate of what eventually will be a series of conservative immigration and border control reforms were passed and signed into law.

6) RaTHer-comprehensive class action lawsuit reforms were passed and signed into law.

7) Comprehensive bankruptcy reforms were passed and signed into law.

8) Comprehensive energy policy reforms – including massive expansions of our nuclear, coal, and natural gas capabilities – were passed and will be signed into law in due course.

Regarding the seven major reform bills which have passed the entire Congress, the average margins have been:

House: 276-152.
Senate: 71-28. Note: Elections do matter!

Also, GWB has toppled the Taliban & Saddam & sowed the seeds for elections & a new constitution in Iraq (despite the left & media saying it couldn't be done). He also got John Bolton into the corrupt UN to help clean that up, and conservative John Roberts named to the SCOTUS.

Now I know that all the Bush haters would rather have Saddam in power & the UN in charge, and you hate everything Bush does, but the fact is he has done stuff.

Now tell me again one thing Hillary has actually done for WNY.

And don't sidestep. I never said Pataki & Giambra were of any help either. But the question had to do with Hillary.

I already linked directly to her website. You parse through it. And my question wasn't "What has bush done", it was "What has bush done for WNY". I'm sure there are several things, but without researching this question, you don't have an answer. Nobody does.

[buffknut]

Erieman,

Bush is President of all 50 states and all the counties therein, including Erie. That means from a Federal level, it's an even field. This area's demise long preceeded Bush in office, even you must acknowledge that. Other areas of the country are doing better than this area under the same President.

You cannot legitamately lay this area's problems on GWB. But you can directly attribute them to 50 plus years of rule by the local Democratic party.

Are Republicans better? Maybe, maybe not. But why would you continue to put into office the same party that has clearly demonstrated incompetence in WNY? Why would you elect Democratic senators like Hillary (who is a carpetbagger if there ever was one) who claim they can create 50,000 jobs (or whatever ridiculous number she used) and not deliver at all?

You Demmie lovers/Bush haters cannot answer that simple question - why do you want Hillary in office? Why why why?

I claim outright that the Democratic party has ruined this region.

No qualification for my statement. Prove me wrong. Tell me how the Dem party has done even one thing that has benefited this region? Tell me how we are better now than 50-60-70 years ago because of the dem party in office.

I love you guys that claim all politicos are alike. Then why won't you vote out the Dems and vote all Repubs in? What have you got to lose?

You vote Demmie because you are blind. You vote Demmie because you don't get it. You vote Demmie because you are "stuck on stupid".

Bush won, sKerry lost.

This is for you & all the Bush haters. Read it & weep:

http://www.yourewelcomeeverybody.com/gallery.php

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by buffknut
Erieman,

Bush is President of all 50 states and all the counties therein, including Erie. That means from a Federal level, it's an even field. This area's demise long preceeded Bush in office, even you must acknowledge that. Other areas of the country are doing better than this area under the same President.

You cannot legitamately lay this area's problems on GWB. But you can directly attribute them to 50 plus years of rule by the local Democratic party.

Are Republicans better? Maybe, maybe not. But why would you continue to put into office the same party that has clearly demonstrated incompetence in WNY? Why would you elect Democratic senators like Hillary (who is a carpetbagger if there ever was one) who claim they can create 50,000 jobs (or whatever ridiculous number she used) and not deliver at all?

You Demmie lovers/Bush haters cannot answer that simple question - why do you want Hillary in office? Why why why?

I claim outright that the Democratic party has ruined this region.

No qualification for my statement. Prove me wrong. Tell me how the Dem party has done even one thing that has benefited this region? Tell me how we are better now than 50-60-70 years ago because of the dem party in office.

I love you guys that claim all politicos are alike. Then why won't you vote out the Dems and vote all Repubs in? What have you got to lose?

You vote Demmie because you are blind. You vote Demmie because you don't get it. You vote Demmie because you are "stuck on stupid".

Bush won, sKerry lost.

This is for you & all the Bush haters. Read it & weep:

http://www.yourewelcomeeverybody.com/gallery.php

You've completely missed the point. Completely...You're so involved in your Dem V. Rep crap that you could care less about the truth.

I asked you to name what GWB has done for WNY because you wouldn't know unless you did some serious research on the subject. I said that these people do things EVERY DAY that you don't even hear about unless the Buffalo News deems it newsworthy. I'm sure GWB has done things for WNY. I could care less if I agree with what he's done or not, for the sake of this thread.

I never said that GWB caused this area's demise, but if you subconsciously think that, then so be it.

It does NOT matter what party is in office. In NY, NEITHER party has done ANYTHING for anyone. Pataki's a republican. Giambra turned republican. They've done nothing. You cannot single out Hillary Clinton by saying "she's done nothing", when your only issue is that she is a "carpetbagger". I don't care where any of our leaders are from, as long as they do work.

[buffknut '01]

I ran a Google on my "web name" and was surprised to find a lot more than I expected. I thought I had selected something unique since it was based on my name, which is one of a kind. I've been "buffknut" since 2001. This fact is verifiable, so please do not feel that I'm stepping on your territory. I see that we come in a German version as well.

I'm not a Buffalo, NY individual....but by coincidence, I have property in a subdivision called "The Buffalo" in Colorado. Colorado is a "Red" state that got smart and sent some "Blue" folks to Washington this year! As an Independent that voted against Bush....I'm enjoying every moment of his crumbling Presidency.

:D The Original Buffknut

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by LHardy
Now governor thats a race she knows she has a shot at.


Even though she has done absolutely nothing. NYS loves their Hillary. :confused:

And Pataki has done soooo much to help us. Let me count the ways:

1. Rammed casino gambling down our throats, and did so by bringing in what amounts to a foreign country (since it is entirely soverign) to take land off the tax rolls forever, haul in whatever profit they can extract from us and leave the city with a trail of crumbs. A good deal all around!.

2. Ummmmmm.....

[LHardy]

And Pataki has done soooo much to help us.

I wouldn't give him any credit either. I hope he does run for Pres. then maybe we can get him out of NY as well.
But this is about Hillary and evedently you can't find one thing she has done for us either.

[steven]

you can try as hard as you want naming every little accomplishment Bush has it still wont change the fact that his precidency will always be seen as a failure in the eyes of history. His own people are trying to distance themselves from him right now before the next elections begin and he was never particularly liked by real conservitives.

It isnt a matter of wether you like him or not its just the way its played out. From no weapons of mass destruction being found to the debacle in NO and now the indictment of Scooter" His presidency will be mentioned about a level beneath such notable presidents as Jimmy Carter, An incompetent that future generations will wonder how he ever got elected.

There will be no Bush national airport like there was with Regan and no cottails that still can draw big money to cling to like there was with Clinton.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by LHardy
And Pataki has done soooo much to help us.

I wouldn't give him any credit either. I hope he does run for Pres. then maybe we can get him out of NY as well.
But this is about Hillary and evedently you can't find one thing she has done for us either.

now you're getting my point. I can't think of anything she's done for the area. But I also can't think of anything ANYONE has done for the area - especially to completion. But, I'm sure they've all done SOMETHING.

To single Hillary out is silly, especially when all of our other leaders are in the same boat.

[buffknut]

steven,

Once again you are completely wrong but that is all that can be expected from you. Please make sure you consult your usual MSM sources for all your news.

You hate Bush. Nothing new for you to say. 3 plus more years. You better do alot of crying in your beer. Have a little whine with your cheese too.

As for me, I'm thankful every day that we have GWB in office and not Gore or sKerry.

He got elected because people like me voted for him....twice. It must make your blood boild to know that their are Bushies right here in WNY, not too far from your own home. Do you cower at night? Afraid we'll take away your rights? Afraid of conservative judges? Afraid of ...well..everything?

Hey, Canada is just a few minutes across the bridge.

3 more years.

Bwahahahahahahaha

I got that from
www.littlegreenfootballs.com

My favorite sight.

Oh, I know. It's neocon right wing fascist nazi etc etc etc to you.

Too bad.

[steven]

Originally posted by buffknut
steven,

Once again you are completely wrong but that is all that can be expected from you. Please make sure you consult your usual MSM sources for all your news.

I didnt post any news so I have no idea what you are talking about


Originally posted by buffknut
steven,
He got elected because people like me voted for him....twice.


Umm no he lost the popualr election the first time around so the "people" didnt vote for him twice he got in office because of glitch in the electoral system that has only happened one other time in history.



Originally posted by buffknut
Do you cower at night? Afraid we'll take away your rights? Afraid of conservative judges?

I offered no critsism of Bush in my post I simply stated what is obvious to most be they republicans or democrats. The Bush presidency will be seen as a failure in the eyes of history. I even went on to say " It isn't a matter of whether you like him or not its just the way its played out. From no weapons of mass destruction being found to the debacle in NO and now the indictment of Scooter"

At the end of the last election the democratic party was teetering on the brink of destruction. GWB has done more to energize the democrat party than any dem could have. His approval ratings are at a monumental low and as the death toll to US service members in Iraq has crept past the 2k mark he still has no exit strategy, his advisors are being indicted and the dems smell blood in the water as accented by how they forced the senate into closed door sessions today. Real conservatives have tired of his record deficits and no matter who he puts up for the court that wont be forgotten.

You cant honestly sit there with a straight face and believe his time in office will be viewed favorable 50 yrs from now can you?

[buffknut]

steven,

If I'm still around in 50 years, I'll still feel favorable toward GWB. So that's one vote for (since I plan to still be around).

Is that favorable face enough for you? (I know it ain't)

So you don't like GWB. Well, 61 million voted for him. I guess we're all a bunch of jerks because we don't agree with you.

GWB will be out in 3 years. Then you can work real hard to get a demmie back in office; Hillary is just waiting for your vote.

Till then, GWB remains. You must be having trouble sleeping at night too. Get together with some of your fellow Bush haters and go have a pity party.

[steven]

I have watched you go deeper and deeper into what seems some kind of fanatical craze on this message board where anyone who says anything even remotely negative towards the current administration brings out this spew of nonsensical statements and twisted views of reality. I see you have tired of Clintons penis so now you have moved on to Hillary.

Its a shame really, a couple of months ago you used to be able to hold a decent conversation, now all you do is blather nonsense instead of replying to questions and opinions put forth to you.

[300miles]

Originally posted by ERIEMAN
I love when people ask this question, and not even necessarily about Hillary. Most people don't know what ANY politician has done period. Even GWB, aside from taking us to war, supporting Jesus, and nominating anti-abortion judges to the Supreme court, most people can't name a damn thing he's done in office.
I'd say Higgins is one notable exception locally. Anybody that follows Buffalo politics knows what he's done and what he's trying to get done.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by 300miles
I'd say Higgins is one notable exception locally. Anybody that follows Buffalo politics knows what he's done and what he's trying to get done.

The ONLY difference with Higgins is that he is working on a publicly interesting project. The news follows and broadcasts his work because the waterfront is so important to them and us. If he were fighting for, say, $5M in grants for facade beautification on Seneca St, it would go largely unnoticed by the general public.

He is no exception. MOST of our politicians DO things. It's like my dad used to tell me - "Do SOMETHING, even if it's wrong". That's what they do. In two years, who is going to remember Denise Marshall fighting to keep the Erie County Home open? Who remembers any of the little things they do that made the news? Who knows any of the daily things that they do?

The problem is not that they aren't doing things. It's that they are doing them wrong!

[buffknut]

steven,

It's "nonsense" to you. I'm "fanatical". I have "twisted views of reality".

I'll just add that to the list of names I've been called on this forum by you & others. Remember, I'm a "liar" and "empty" also.

Just because you don't agree with me and I'm steadfast in my beliefs, you choose to denigrate me. As an example, I provide list after list of direct quotes from your favorite Dems re WMD. Direct Quotes. But you and others continue to believe that Bush lied about WMD. How is that not a "twisted view of reality"?

Well, I can handle the name calling, so please continue. And if I'm so full of nonsense, why do you even bother reading my posts?

[WestSideJohn]

There's a really easy way to avoid being called a liar... don't lie.

[steven]

Originally posted by buffknut
steven,

It's "nonsense" to you. I'm "fanatical". I have "twisted views of reality".

I'll just add that to the list of names I've been called on this forum by you & others. Remember, I'm a "liar" and "empty" also.

Just because you don't agree with me and I'm steadfast in my beliefs, you choose to denigrate me. As an example, I provide list after list of direct quotes from your favorite Dems re WMD. Direct Quotes. But you and others continue to believe that Bush lied about WMD. How is that not a "twisted view of reality"?

Well, I can handle the name calling, so please continue. And if I'm so full of nonsense, why do you even bother reading my posts?

I was talking about how GWB presidency will be seen by history, you chose to talk about drinking a beer and hillary clinton.

Yes its true many dems agreed with Bush on going to war in Iraq, again this has nothing to do with what my post was about. I dont live in the "us vs them" world you do. I also have the common sence to realize that 50 yrs from now no one will remeber who those dems and republicans where. The president on the other hand is etched in history the second he is elected.

.........and BTW I never called you a "liar" or "empty" so there as well you have lost me.

[buffknut]

westie,

you add no value to a discussion.

steven,

I didn't say you specifically called me a liar. Frankly I don't remember anymore who has called me what. But I have been called those names (I think speaker may have been the one).

I will give you credit though for finally admitting this:

"Yes its true many dems agreed with Bush on going to war in Iraq".

It's a start.

[WestSideJohn]

Originally posted by buffknut
westie, you add no value to a discussion... Frankly I don't remember anymore who has called me what. But I have been called those names (I think speaker may have been the one).Here, I'll add some value to this discussion by reminding Nuttie that I'm the one who called him a liar. Our friend Nuttie has, on several occasions over the past few months, made posts which contain outright falsehoods, including several about me. At first I thought they were honest mistakes - we all make them after all. But I've since realized, after correcting his claims only to have him repeat them over and over, that he's more interested in making his point than in actual facts or truth.

His brand of "party first" politics disgusts me more and more every day, whether it comes from the left or the right.

[steven]

Originally posted by buffknut

steven,

I will give you credit though for finally admitting this:

"Yes its true many dems agreed with Bush on going to war in Iraq".

It's a start.

again your making no sence. I never said it was otherwise, and again you miss the point of my post.