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Curmudgeon
August 26th, 2003, 09:19 AM
Shocking drivel from the Buffalo News.....


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Unions offer city way to cut millions


Three city unions will release a financial plan today that leaders claim could save Buffalo up to $15 million a year without layoffs, major employee concessions or raising property taxes.
The plan proposes more than a dozen strategies for increasing revenues and reducing costs. They include beefed-up enforcement of parking and trash laws, a new landlord licensing fee and returning the recycling program to the public sector.

Union leaders also want the city to give employees the option of accepting lower-cost medical insurance in return for receiving half of the savings. The money would be placed in personal care accounts that could be used by workers to pay higher co-payments and other family medical expenses.

Members of the city's white-collar, blue-collar and building inspectors' unions - groups that represent about 2,000 employees - are scheduled to meet this morning with some elected officials to review their plan. The document will also be filed with the state control board, which will play a pivotal role in trying to stabilize city finances.

Union leaders said they have devised the plan in hopes of convincing city officials and the control board that a "labor-management partnership" could help solve Buffalo's fiscal crisis.

"Consider this an invitation for the city to work with us," said William D. McGuire, president of the blue-collar union. "We want them to know that we're concerned about the future of the city. Nearly 100 percent of our members live in the city, and we want to work toward solutions."

American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Council 35 President William Travis, who represents all three unions, said labor groups recognize the problems Buffalo faces and are eager to help solve them in a "cooperative" fashion.

"The question is: Will the control board listen?" he said. "Will they let go of the old stereotypes that labor is the enemy?"

Union representatives are afraid the control board might freeze wages and take other painful steps to balance the budget. They said their plan shows that deficits can be erased without "dismantling" departments or imposing layoffs. The report will state that Buffalo's non-uniformed work force has been cut by 60 percent since 1980 - about three times the size of the city's population loss during that period.

One proposal, which the union claims would account for up to $8 million in annual savings, calls on Erie County to guarantee the city tax roll, just as it does for towns and villages. The move, they say, would protect the city from delinquent and uncollectible accounts and reduce city borrowing costs.

Eva M. Hassett, Mayor Anthony M. Masiello's chief of staff, said the administration has yet to see the union's plan and cannot comment on specifics. The mayor must submit a four-year financial plan to the control board within a week.

Other recommendations that will be in the union's plan involve:

Targeting garbage user-fee deadbeats. Labor leaders said the city fails to collect $2 million in user-fee charges each year.

Allowing Buffalo to adjudicate traffic tickets that are written in the city. Advocates, including Delaware Council Member Marc A. Coppola and State Sen. Byron W. Brown, D-Buffalo, believe a major new revenue stream could be created by pleading violations down to parking tickets and other nonmoving violations, allowing the city to keep money now going to the state.

Returning recycling operations to the public sector. Last year, the city hired a private company to take over collections. The union claims it has a plan that will save more than $400,000 a year.

Upgrading city golf courses, then turning them into profit-makers for the city by increasing fees. They said that outside grants are available to help subsidize costs and that reduced fees could still be offered to seniors and youth.

"This is not meant to be a complete list of ideas," said Michael Drennen, president of the white-collar union. "In time, we'll talk about some other ways to save money and cut costs."


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Thanks for the recommendations....
That's just what we need - some "revenuers" to write tickets all day long to unsuspecting citizens so a "revenue stream" can be created to save jobs that aren't needed. That would really drive people to go downtown!!

<<<....calls on Erie County to guarantee the city tax roll....>>>
WARNING TO ERIE COUNTY! THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO STICK COUNTY TAXPAYERS WITH BACK-TAXES FOR ABANDONED PROPERTIES! If a property has been abandonded and no one takes title to it, then the market value of that proprty is ZERO DOLLARS. you can't give it away. Therefore the assessment on that property is $0.00. Look out Erie County. You'll see $20,000 assessments on empty lots in the ghetto that you'll have to pay taxes on!

<<<Union leaders said they have devised the plan in hopes of convincing city officials and the control board that a "labor-management partnership" could help solve Buffalo's fiscal crisis. >>>
Should have been partners for the last 20 years. That's why the city is in the shape it's in now. Too little too late...

<<<Consider this an invitation for the city to work with us>>>
Last I heard, you worked for the city. Hopefully in the near future, a lot less of you will be.

<<...a new landlord licensing fee...>>>
More taxes. Brilliant!!! let's have a "non-union employee" fee too.

<<<The document will also be filed with the state control board, which will play a pivotal role in trying to stabilize city finances. >>>
The state control board should hang this docment on a little roll in a bathroom stall. Thanks but no thanks.

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 02:19 PM
Next question "$15 million a year without layoffs"


How much more can we save with layoffs. I don't see why they have an issue about laying off people. Thier actions, spending actions and labor contracts have contributed to many many layoffs in the private sector. Now they are not the only issue but in WNY they are an issue. Can we save $20,000,000 will with layoffs and cut patronage? If so why are the pink slips not going out. THere are jobs in other states these people could qualifiy for.

Unregistered
August 26th, 2003, 05:19 PM
The Union People have been givin nothing more then what the City allowed them to have.

I do think the union President is doing nothing more then offering there help insolving FRACTION of the problem. I applaud the Union for the offer and think the Control Board will look at it as a great offer, as they should.

In closing though why are we starting with the little guy here? Start with the BIG FAT PIG at the top and work down. I havent seen 1 POLITICAN including the Mayor on down offer anything.

So stop blaming the Unions its not there fault!

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 06:05 PM
I agree with you 100% unregistered. Start at the top... But it has to be fast.. NO bs and drag it out 4 years or more...

Pataki should cut his check 40% off the top and have his wife looked into for those $200,000 worth of govement consulting contracts. Perhaps she should of been comsulting george about the budget deficit. Something seems a little fishy there.

I dont know her but what is she an expert in to earn $200,000 for consulting? Anyone care to elaborate?

Fat pigs first.. then widdle down the the unions. Unions are a factor though do not let them snow you. When you have county workers taking up to $60,000 in over time which tags on thier retirement benifits, you know something is wrong.

If you are that bad of a worker that all the time is needed to complete your task, perhaps you need to replaced with a more efficient worker. We have to make sure we are getting our residents money's worth. Now i'm not talking when we have emergencies and over time i needed, I mean that basic schedualing games the crook play to pad thier paychecks.

Curmudgeon
August 26th, 2003, 06:27 PM
<<<So stop blaming the Unions its not there fault!>>>

Ahhh, yes it is. over half of the city budget is for police and fire payroll ALONE. They are completely unmanaged. Spare us the "get the guy at the top" deflection. If you cut masiello's salary in half, thats $40,000 in savings - a drop in the bucket compared to all the excess salaries and positions demanded by the extortionist unions.

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 11:28 PM
Curm,

The unions are not that bad. I mean they are bad but not to the extent i think some people believe we are making them out to be. I think the groups we have in control in WNY are way bad though. I"m going to analyse that long first post you poped into this thread and comment more than "why are pink slips not going out" but there was a lot there to digest.

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 11:31 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Union leaders also want the city to give employees the option of accepting lower-cost medical insurance in return for receiving half of the savings. The money would be placed in personal care accounts that could be used by workers to pay higher co-payments and other family medical expenses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I accepted lower medical insurance when i couldnt' afford the already low insurance plan i had to start with.

Mr. Union, you won't accept anything, you'll take when yoru given and say thank you. Tough times mean tough measures. No personal pay accounts. That would offset the lower cost of the lower insurance plan so over all your not saving anything. Only a politician would fall for something this stupid. I pay co pays and a rather high deductable. It's called life.

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 11:33 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Members of the city's white-collar, blue-collar and building inspectors' unions - groups that represent about 2,000 employees - are scheduled to meet this morning with some elected officials to review their plan. The document will also be filed with the state control board, which will play a pivotal role in trying to stabilize city finances.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is a waste of time but over all the elected leaders have really nothing to do anyhow. There's a control board here now and it's thier plan now, not the elected officials or unions.

AM I not correct?

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Union leaders said they have devised the plan in hopes of convincing city officials and the control board that a "labor-management partnership" could help solve Buffalo's fiscal crisis.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Days of Tammy Hall are over. Labor-Management has gotten NYS into this mess along with the welfare system.

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 11:37 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Consider this an invitation for the city to work with us," said William D. McGuire, president of the blue-collar union. "We want them to know that we're concerned about the future of the city. Nearly 100 percent of our members live in the city, and we want to work toward solutions."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is a start. But over all it make no more difference. Only issues they will address is working conditions and safetly. All other issues is what market will bear pay wise. If a counter clerk can be replaced with a able minded person for $25,000 a year then the $40,000 a year person will take a pay cut or go take thier $40,000 as some local company... NOT!!!!!!

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 11:39 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Council 35 President William Travis, who represents all three unions, said labor groups recognize the problems Buffalo faces and are eager to help solve them in a "cooperative" fashion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


You have to cooperate otherwise you will be handed a pink slip, exactly what point are you getting at Mr. Willam Travis ?

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 11:43 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"The question is: Will the control board listen?" he said. "Will they let go of the old stereotypes that labor is the enemy?"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I certianly hope they dont listen, that's why they are here. You are not the enemy, you are just costing nys in general too much. Sorry but your services are too costly and it's time to get with the times. Someone from the state once told me I have to learn to live with competition even if it ruins my business, it makes everything better for the consumer. My answer to him was, why are you in a union then? There are competative people taht will fill yoru position in a heart beat, isn't that better for the resident? He just looked at me with a stupid expression on his face.

sbGUY27
August 26th, 2003, 11:44 PM
these idiots don't relise that it is too late. They are not dealing with masi-ahole anymore. the control board is where they should be directing thier comments.

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 11:49 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The union claims it has a plan that will save more than $400,000 a year.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Perhaps that should of been done in the first place. Why did they spend $400,000 too much in the first place.

Good example Giambra came up with is any county employee that comes up with something to save the public money will earn 10% of that savings.

Good rule, but then fire that employee and their supervisor on the spot for allowing the waste in the first place. Only way that employee doens't get fired is if they weren't involved with the waste in the first place.

If i name poeple that i'm told are just patronage hires and do not contribute to what WNY needs will giambra hand me 10% of thier salaries? TEll me it's so? We'll start the WNY save the county funds lottery. Boy we could have fun with that.

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 11:51 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>....
The state control board should hang this docment on a little roll in a bathroom stall. Thanks but no thanks.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I wanted to say that but thought my personality would look harsh again :)

WNYresident
August 26th, 2003, 11:53 PM
Does anyone who reads this site know a wholesaler that sells rails, tar and feathers?

IF we start at Pataki and work our way down we are going to need barrels full.. Oh NYS is going to have a lot of bald birds too :)

sbGUY27
August 26th, 2003, 11:57 PM
Irish (not the drunk at the end of the bar) it's a company.

They sell just about everything.

Curmudgeon
August 27th, 2003, 01:06 AM
<<<The unions are not that bad. I mean they are bad but not to the extent i think some people believe we are making them out to be. I think the groups we have in control in WNY are way bad though. I"m going to analyse that long first post you poped into this thread and comment more than "why are pink slips not going out" but there was a lot there to digest.>>>

I thank you for taking the time to sort thru that extract-of-BS. I see that fter digesting it, you have gome to the same conclusion as I.

<<<....calls on Erie County to guarantee the city tax roll....>>>
This is BY FAR the stealthiest attempt to grab other people's money that I have seen yet. The city assessors get to assess abandoned properties for whatever they want, and then hand the bill to the county when nobody pays. Why would the city ever tax-foreclose on a property again? If they do, they can no longer generate an "unpaid property tax bill" to pass on to the county, which has "guaranteed" all uncollectable tax bills.

I'd like some comments on the above observation just so I know it is not only me that sees this giant white elephant in my living room!!! Someone please acknowledge the danger in the tax-guarantee scam....

WNYresident
August 27th, 2003, 07:04 AM
<<<....calls on Erie County to guarantee the city tax roll....>>>
This is BY FAR the stealthiest attempt to grab other people's money that I have seen yet. The city assessors get to assess abandoned properties for whatever they want, and then hand the bill to the county when nobody pays. Why would the city ever tax-foreclose on a property again? If they do, they can no longer generate an "unpaid property tax bill" to pass on to the county, which has "guaranteed" all uncollectable tax bills.

I'd like some comments on the above observation just so I know it is not only me that sees this giant white elephant in my living room!!! Someone please acknowledge the danger in the tax-guarantee scam....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


It's called the not so bright leading the less bright :)

Anyone know what other cities do in other states with issues like this? By reading this we are talking that the county will offset any property tax on a building not being paid for by the owner once it's forclosed?

I'd say don't spend so much so you always have some left over. DOn't spend every every red cent so when you lose a little revenue you don't have programs depending on it. Theres no reason this can't be done. I hate when i hear some goverment progream state, "If we don't spend it all we'll get less next year". Perhaps I would rather not spend as much next year on my taxes if you guys don't need it to start with.

Curmudgeon
August 27th, 2003, 09:37 AM
<<<Anyone know what other cities do in other states with issues like this? By reading this we are talking that the county will offset any property tax on a building not being paid for by the owner once it's forclosed?>>>

No. It means the county has to pay a tax bill once it goes to collections for not being paid. If a property is tax-foreclosed, that means the city seizes the land from the owner because taxes were seriously deliquent . It it now owned by the city, and it is now tax-exempt, because the city doesn't "tax itself" - that would be stupid.

So lets suppose a home is abandoned and the owner skips to alabama. The only legal recourse is to tax-foreclose the property. If the property had value, the city would sell it at auction. The city owns hundereds of properties that have no value because no one will buy them. So, if the city has a property that is tax-deliquent and it knows the property has no reasonable expectation of being sold at auction due to its condition, why should it bother to foreclose? The city can then set its valuation to whatever it wants and make the county pay the tax bill in perpetuity. So the county pays taxes to the city for properties that it has no control over. The county can't even ask for a valuation adjustment, since they don't "own" the property!

See the scam now???

WNYresident
August 27th, 2003, 10:20 AM
Most of the stuff in our local goverments are scams curm. Not all, i dont want to sound like an extremist, but over all the tax payer is getting boned in NYS.