I need help with a dog issue

[biker]

My wife and I walk the dog every morning. For the second time in 10 days, a loose pit bull has come charging out to attack us. Drawing on skills acquired as a lone morning paperboy, I was able to scare him off. His owner ( I can't use all the adjectives here that I have for her) came running after him both times. The first time saying "I got a right to walk my dog, too."

Half a block later, we passed an old lady walking her pooch. If that pit bull comes after her, they're both dead.

So I figured I've got to do something.

Between the two of us, we came up with two alternatives:
a)leave a strong note for this woman;
b)shoot the dog.

There are problems I'd like the board to help me with:
a)what scent should the paper be;
b)what caliber ammo to use.

TIA

[Night Owl]

Was the dog on a leash?

Call the police and have them contact animal control, explain your situation and add in the part about the elderly lady for good measure. Taking pictures always helps too.

[ERIEMAN]

.45 PMC starfires.

[LHardy]

A big stick or baton to the face and jaw, along with a swift kick to the rib cage will subdue the dog. Call to file a complaint with the animal control office of your town, may but not neccasarily help.
I would not recomend discharging a firearm, though appropriate.
If a dog attacks you, you have the right to kill said dog.

[biker]

Neither time on a leash. She was walking this brute without one the first time. Probably because he's so well trained.

I ruled out calling the cops or SPCA. What, to hear them tell me to talk to this.............

Or so I can be identified when I whack the dog?

I mean, leave the strong note?

[Night Owl]

Each time a call is made, the reports are documented. Once they (police and/or animal control) see the pattern of complaint they will send someone out.

You should call because this is a safety concern, if it had not been you walking that day consider if it was a child, or someone a little more defenceless.

Have you thought about pepper spray?

Still, I would recommend contacting the authorities because if you just up and shoot the thing the owner can easily say her dog was doing nothing wrong and you just killed it for no reason, whereas (if it gets to the point of serious injury) you will have the reported calls to fall back on.

[biker]

My missus chimes in via email:

"Erieman certainly was to the point.

Sorry Nightowl--taking pictures is probably not the easiest thing to do in such a situation. I agree that a picture would have proved that he was off a leash, but I wouldn't have been able to snap one while worrying about him charging me."

[LHardy]

whereas (if it gets to the point of serious injury) you will have the reported calls to fall back on.

Don't wait for this to happen.
Serious injury does include death as a potential.
Pit bulls will go for the jugular instinctively.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by biker
My missus chimes in via email:

"Erieman certainly was to the point.

Sorry Nightowl--taking pictures is probably not the easiest thing to do in such a situation. I agree that a picture would have proved that he was off a leash, but I wouldn't have been able to snap one while worrying about him charging me."

If you get those pictures, post them. Like a comic strip:

first photo: dog bearing teeth, 100 feet away.
second photo: dog closing in, 50 feet away - drool can be seen.
third photo: camera crooked, very blurry picture of concrete in motion
fourth photo: is that a running shoe?
fifth photo: dog's uvula
sixth photo: bright lights. People looking down at you, pointing.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by Night Owl
Each time a call is made, the reports are documented. Once they (police and/or animal control) see the pattern of complaint they will send someone out.

You should call because this is a safety concern, if it had not been you walking that day consider if it was a child, or someone a little more defenceless.

Have you thought about pepper spray?

Still, I would recommend contacting the authorities because if you just up and shoot the thing the owner can easily say her dog was doing nothing wrong and you just killed it for no reason, whereas (if it gets to the point of serious injury) you will have the reported calls to fall back on.

Actually, when i was in cheektowarsaw, we had a fawn in our back yard. The yard is large with a stockade fence and only one way for the deer to enter or exit. We called the police, and they said they didn't handle deer removal and hung up.

Also, several years ago, my mother was bitten by a stray collie. We had to call the CPD 5 times in four hours before anyone came.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by biker
My missus chimes in via email:

"Erieman certainly was to the point.

Sorry Nightowl--taking pictures is probably not the easiest thing to do in such a situation. I agree that a picture would have proved that he was off a leash, but I wouldn't have been able to snap one while worrying about him charging me."

Do it this way. Let the dog attack Biker. While Biker is on the ground being chewed let the wife take the pictures. This way his wife is safe.

[biker]

I think there's a downside here......

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by LHardy
whereas (if it gets to the point of serious injury) you will have the reported calls to fall back on.

Don't wait for this to happen.
Serious injury does include death as a potential.
Pit bulls will go for the jugular instinctively.

I like dogs but I were personally outlaw them. THere are so many breeds of dogs why would anyone have to have a pitbull.

My nieghbor has one which is now a puppy but it sort of goes a little mental occasionally. Gets really nasty for a few minutes. Right now it's a puppy but I can't see the owner controlling it when it's full size. I could easily see this dog killing our dog in one bite to the neck if it snaped as an adult. Why take chances?

[biker]

Did you guys notice on the news last night that ONtario has just outlawed the sale, purchase or breeding of pit bulls.

When the current crop dies, that's it.

[NoCtUrNaL]

Originally posted by biker
Did you guys notice on the news last night that ONtario has just outlawed the sale, purchase or breeding of pit bulls.

When the current crop dies, that's it.

That's out right breedism. Where's the PBCLU when you need it?

[NoCtUrNaL]

I don't have dogs for the same reason I don't have kids...I can't be bothered teaching something where it should poop.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by NoCtUrNaL
I don't have dogs for the same reason I don't have kids...I can't be bothered teaching something where it should poop.

That's the fun of it. My dog goes in my neighbor's yard.

[NoCtUrNaL]

Originally posted by ERIEMAN
That's the fun of it. My dog goes in my neighbor's yard.

Occasionally....so do I.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by LHardy
whereas (if it gets to the point of serious injury) you will have the reported calls to fall back on.

Don't wait for this to happen.
Serious injury does include death as a potential.
Pit bulls will go for the jugular instinctively.

I like dogs but I would personally outlaw them. There are so many breeds of dogs why would anyone have to have a pitbull.

My nieghbor has one which is now a puppy but it sort of goes a little mental occasionally. Gets really nasty for a few minutes. Right now it's a puppy but I can't see the owner controlling it when it's full size. I could easily see this dog killing our dog in one bite to the neck if it snaped as an adult. Why take chances?

[buffy]

Originally posted by biker
Did you guys notice on the news last night that ONtario has just outlawed the sale, purchase or breeding of pit bulls.


I just read that the City of Buffalo just passed an ordinance that limits the number of dogs to 3 per household. Three dogs is a lot, especially if they're aggressive bulls.

I say leave strong note, then pepper spray, then kick, then shoot, then prepare your defense in the local media spotlight
(unless it takes place around election day, then no one will air it)

[biker]

You're kidding about the note, right?

I put that in as a joke.

You're talking about a person who let this monster run loose.

Twice.

What makes you think she can read?

Seriously.

[therising]

Biker:

If you shoot the dog, you're gonna wind up with problems.

The owner is, I'm imagining, a little trashy. trashy people tend to look for the easy way out of things, like SUING.

Don't get yourself in legal problems.

Sounds like she may be new to the area (or is it just the dog that's new?). Does she own, or is she a renter? If she's a renter, I'd contact her landlord, let him know that he may want to makesure his homeowners is paid in full.

I WOULD call the cops, though. Let them handle it.

OR, find someone else to off the pooch. Don't do it yourself, though.

[Night Owl]

therising is right biker. This person can easily say you attacked her dog for no reason.

I could easily see this dog killing our dog in one bite...

such a sad thought. :(

[citymouse]

I was driving down Elmwood about ten days ago, (Sunday Morning) and saw a black and white pit bull running loose with another dog that lokked like a white pit bull.
There was a woman walking a dog and they went after her dog.
Could this have been the outlaw dog you are referring too?
It was around the Breckinridege to Auburn area.
She chashed them off before anything happened.

[biker]

No, this was off Parkside, right by the zoo.

Wow, two of them. That must have been some lady!

I've taken the board's advice on moderate action and Mr. L. Slugger is by the leash.

I probably will call the police today.

[therising]

So....how'd it go today??

[biker]

Me 'n Mr. Slugger didn't meet anyone or anything.

But, today's another day.

I'm always the optimist!

[speaker]

Originally posted by therising
So....how'd it go today??

No, biker, I think rising meant (IMO)--did you call the police or dog catcher? I would carry a disposable camera with me just to get pictures of the dog or its owner. This may be a help sometime to you or someone else. Good luck.:)

[granpabob]

your going about it all wrong ,the pepper spray ,baseball bats and kick should go to the owner first then worry about the dog .

In most courts if the dog is not on a leash its owner is quilty. if you defend your self from a dog that is not fenced in or on a leash the owner has little chance winning a law suit, problem is you have to spend hours of your own time in court so she gets a small fine, unfortunatly if you want anything to be done about the dog you have to let it bite you or someone else first, then they can have it "put away"

[biker]

You're right about the owner.

A neighbor was asking why I was walking around with a baseball bat these days. Told her the story.

She said the dog had gone after a friend of hers.

The friend tried to talk to the owner and the owner was rude.

My, my, imagine that.

I'm looking forward to a discussion with Mr. Slugger.

[LHardy]

Only in america do we worry more about what happens to a dog or any animal then we do about our fellow men and women when confronted by mad/bad animals. There is good news for those who are confronted by Mad dogs and animals!

Self defense when a dog attacks a person

AN ACT
to amend the agriculture and markets
law, in relation to regulating
dangerous dogs

The People of the State of New
York, represented in Senate and
Assembly, do act as follows

01/23/97 3 07017-01-7

S 4 . Section 121 of the agriculture and markets law, as added by chap-
ter 220 of the laws of 1978, subdivision 4 as amended by chapter 843 of
the laws of 1980, is amended to read as follows:
S 121. Dangerous dogs. 1. If any dog shall attack any person who is
peaceably conducting himself in any place where he may lawfully be, such
person or any other person witnessing the attack may destroy 'such dog
while so attacking or while being pursued thereafter, and no liability
in damages or otherwise shall be incurred on account of such
destruction.
http://www.rott-n-chatter.com/rottweilers/laws/newyork.html

Get em Biker! Don't get bit or worse. Shoot first ask questions later. Just can not do it as revenge.

[biker]

Thanks levi for the legal citation.

I did take some of the advice from the MB (other than take pix and write a letter) and have decided to adopt Mr. Slugger instead of Messrs. Smith & Wesson.

Though the Missus is getting tired of all our walks routed by that house.

[therising]

Good luck and keep us posted.

I have a dog in my neighborhood that I hate walking by, simply because it's ugly, mangy, and barks non-stop. The owners keep it chained in the front yard 24/7. I wonder sometimes why they even have the dog.

The owners are ugly and semi-toothed. Guess every neighborhood has some.

Least they do keep the dog leashed, though.

[biker]

Originally posted by therising
Good luck and keep us posted.

I have a dog in my neighborhood that I hate walking by, simply because it's ugly, mangy, and barks non-stop. The owners keep it chained in the front yard 24/7. I wonder sometimes why they even have the dog.

The owners are ugly and semi-toothed. Guess every neighborhood has some.

Least they do keep the dog leashed, though.

I heard something once from some PETA folks (who I generally think are nuts) that I think may be valid.

They contend that a chained dog is actually more dangerous. They are very protective (which we all know). Chaining them restricts their movement. When you walk by, these two factors drive them nuts. If the chain ever breaks, you're dead meat.

After reading that, observing the behavior of chained dogs, I avoid them if possible.

So why do some people in my neighborhood chain their pooches to the bottom of their front step railings? They've got back yards.

Sends a clear message to moi.

[biker]

The saga continues, but with a new source.

On our way back, an unleashed pointer came charging across the street growling.

I tapped Mr. Slugger on the sidewalk.

Not having a clue as to what I would do next if the dog didn't stop, the barefoot contessa who owns it came running out saying, "Oh, that's a good idea."

The dog, having more sense than the owner, stopped dead, turned and ran back to its house. Barefoot following.

We continued our morning walk. A couple of minutes later, one of our neighbors came passed us, backpack on, heading to work (she might wear earth shoes, not sure). We had told her a few days ago about the pit bull.

Seeing Mr. Slugger, she said, "Why do I think I should give you a wide berth."

I responded, "I'm not the one you should watch out for" and told her about the pointer she might run into on the way to the train.

[LHardy]

Is there not a leash law where you live?
We don't have one but if a dog happens onto the property it usually is a nieghbors dog and they are mostly friendly. I have taken many of my nieghbors dogs back to them after the dog has wandered onto my property and the owners are always so appoligetic and ticked off at their pets. Responsible owners I suppose compaired to what you have dealt with.

[biker]

Of course there's a leash law!

Which is why those posts about strong notes and pix were so "hepful"

[biker]

And it continues again.

Yesterday, Twiggy was walking her full-size mutt half a block ahead of us. As she was not moving too quickly (it being early and all) I kept a watch on them.

As they rounded the corner, thankfully heading away from us, her pooch noticed ours. He began lunging towards us.

Twiggy began to lose control of her dog. I motioned my wife away and began tapping Mr. Slugger on the sidewalk to scare the dog.

By this time, Twiggy was prone on the ground, her dog dragging her across the lawn, saliva dripping from the dogs fangs as he growled, lunged and pulled Twiggy towards us.

As she was being dragged by the dog, she screamed, "I can't believe you're going to hit my dog." The dog was not slowing down and was not swayed by me hitting the sidewalk. I told her I carried the bat because people like her were a danger.

She finally got the dog under control, so I didn't have to whack him.

Her retort: "I only weigh 100 pounds." Doubtless, she views that as a point of pride and an excuse should her dog have mauled my wife.

I have no idea what;s going on. I don't walk around with a dog whistle to attract them to my bat. We've been walking the dog for six years. We have no idea why we've been attacked three times in about six weeks. (The pit bull lady has apparently moved.)

So what am I supposed to do now? Call the police and SPCA and ask them to arrest skinny women?

I tried to use logic to think this through. I came up with the following hypotheses:
Women are idiots.
Women in Parkside are idiots.
Women who walk dogs are idiots.
Women who walk dogs in Parkside are idiots.

My missus objects to all, particularly the last.

[LHardy]

RRRRRRRR!

[biker]

Close.

He was tan.

Now if you can find one, low to the ground, pulling Twiggy along and snarling, then you'll have it!

[LHardy]

GOVERNOR ANNOUNCES SIGNING OF LEGISLATION TO INCREASE PENALTIES FOR VICIOUS DOG ATTACKS

New Law Will Improve Safety, Encourage Restitution for Victims

Governor George E. Pataki today announced he has signed into law legislation that will significantly increase the civil liability for the owners of dogs who cause serious personal injury, helping to promote more responsible pet ownership and deter vicious dog attacks. The law also provides an incentive to help victims of these attacks receive restitution.

“More than five million Americans are bitten by dogs each year, many of them defenseless children,” Governor Pataki said. “Too often, these attacks have tragic consequences, resulting in serious injury or even death. This new law will crack down on irresponsible and negligent dog owners by increasing the penalties associated with dog attacks and helping victims obtain restitution.”

Under the new law, the maximum penalty for dog attacks that cause serious physical injury will increase from $800 to $1,500. The maximum fine for a dog attack in which the dog has been previously determined to be dangerous will increase from $1,000 to $3,000. The law also will allow for reductions in penalties and fines in situations where the owner of the dog has made restitution to the victim as compensation for medical expenses, lost earnings or other damages resulting from the animal’s attack.

Senator Ruben Diaz, Sr. said, “An incident in my community involving a savage dog attack on a child, Elijah Torres, demonstrated the inadequacy of New York’s laws in this area. Our State laws have unfortunately been more concerned with dog attacks on livestock than on children. This new law will change this disparity by increasing the penalty for dog attacks.”

Assemblyman Ruben Diaz, Jr. said, “This is a great day for Erica Perez, mother of Elijah Torres, and the thousands of other families victimized by dog bites. It’s a step in the right direction. I’m happy that Governor Pataki is signing this legislation that will impose penalties on irresponsible dog owners, and I look forward to working with the Legislature and the Governor to continue to address this health crisis.”

State Agriculture Commissioner Nathan L. Rudgers said, “Governor Pataki is right in signing this law, which will provide a stronger sanction against dog owners who negligently allow their dog to bite a person. We need to make every effort to protect the public from dangerous animals and ensure victims are compensated for expenses incurred as a result of these attacks.”

Americans are bitten by dogs nearly five million times a year. More than 800,000 dog attacks require medical treatment, and more than half of the patients are children. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, dog bites are among the top 10 categories of children’s injuries.

There are more than 660,000 dogs licensed in the State of New York, excluding New York City.

The law takes effect November 14, 2005. ###

[biker]

Mr. Slugger and I hope to ensure that we'll never need to have the fines endorsed.