Should NYC be a state?

[FMD]

Yes or no?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

It will never happen.

What can happen is Upstate getting together, regardless of party, and electing people who vote an upstate agenda.

Downstate officials know that regardless of party, if it is a two party system, they can run the show.

Until people realize that voting Republican or Democrat in NYS elections is a wasted vote...nothing will change.

If there was an middle of the road upstate agenda created, people running for office could say I will vote "Upstate" not Democrat or Republican...and a lot of the mess could be fixed.

[FMD]

LOL @ Voting, now THERE is a joke... voting... Has it ever even crossed your mind that maybe, just maybe, that people in general vote for the RIGHT people, and yet somehow, we end with the aholes that we have?

[300miles]

What can happen is Upstate getting together, regardless of party, and electing people who vote an upstate agenda.
...
If there was an middle of the road upstate agenda created, people running for office could say I will vote "Upstate" not Democrat or Republican...and a lot of the mess could be fixed.

http://www.unshackleupstate.com/ (http://www.unshackleupstate.com/)

"Unshackle Upstate is working to change things in Albany. Because New York is the second most expensive state to do business in. Because our communities are handcuffed by state policies that don't work here. And most importantly, because our people want to come home."

"Unshackle Upstate is a bi-partisan coalition of over 73 business and trade organizations representing upwards of 45,000 companies and employing more than 1 million people. We hail from across Upstate New York with one goal: To achieve reforms in Albany that make Upstate a stronger place to do business."

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

http://www.unshackleupstate.com/ (http://www.unshackleupstate.com/)

"Unshackle Upstate is working to change things in Albany. Because New York is the second most expensive state to do business in. Because our communities are handcuffed by state policies that don't work here. And most importantly, because our people want to come home."

"Unshackle Upstate is a bi-partisan coalition of over 73 business and trade organizations representing upwards of 45,000 companies and employing more than 1 million people. We hail from across Upstate New York with one goal: To achieve reforms in Albany that make Upstate a stronger place to do business."

That is a lobby group.

While I like what they stand for.....to me....it is pointless. Lobby groups are not going to fix anything simply because the same fools are running the show.

Now if the agenda for this group was put towards an upstate wide election push as a campaign platform...and new leaders were to be put out on this platform....then you might have something.

[WNYresident]

That is a lobby group.

While I like what they stand for.....to me....it is pointless. Lobby groups are not going to fix anything simply because the same fools are running the show.

Now if the agenda for this group was put towards an upstate wide election push as a campaign platform...and new leaders were to be put out on this platform....then you might have something.


What does this tell you? CONTROL.

Clean up the IP party and make it's #1 goal to get IP people elected. Or just start another party but the IP party is already started. Having people like Orsini thinking it's good to help get other parties elected is pointless because you never gain CONTROL. But then again he spent years doing that while living off what contribution he could get directly from those parties. Thats the whole point, Control.

[Anotherview]

having people like orsini thinking it's good to help get other parties elected is pointless because you never gain control. But then again he spent years doing that while living off what contribution he could get directly from those parties. .

Proof ?????

[WNYresident]

Proof ?????

BOE records. Go look at contributions made by other elected official groups to his chairman fund. That money from other party's could have been used to run a few people on town boards or smaller races. Could have been used to have IP registration parties.

Either way I would say results what count. How many IP people got elected with direct support from Orsini's efforts?

[Truthdetector]

I am voting yes ONLY IF it includes the following:
1. Albany is included
2. WNY is excluded
3. We can build a tall fence to protect our borders!

[Anotherview]

BOE records. Go look at contributions made by other elected official groups to his chairman fund. That money from other party's could have been used to run a few people on town boards or smaller races. Could have been used to have IP registration parties.

Either way I would say results what count. How many IP people got elected with direct support from Orsini's efforts?


Res:

It's real easy for those who have done nothing to help grow this party to sit behind their computers and criticize people that have worked hard for the IP.

I have answered your questions, listed here, no less than 10 times. I can tell by the responses you have given, that you have no experience in running candidates and really have no interest in hearing or learning about the process.

I can't help but wonder if you have some responsibility to Bob Mc Carthy or the Buffalo News to continuously blacken the Orsini name.

[Mr. Lackawanna]

If Washington DC may be considered as a state, why not New York City.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

What does this tell you? CONTROL.

Clean up the IP party and make it's #1 goal to get IP people elected. Or just start another party but the IP party is already started. Having people like Orsini thinking it's good to help get other parties elected is pointless because you never gain CONTROL. But then again he spent years doing that while living off what contribution he could get directly from those parties. Thats the whole point, Control.


Orsini would be part of the trash that needs to be thrown out. Not saying he is a bad person. He simply is dirty from the mess.

I am talking about a reverse engineering process. Where in a group of non political grassroot members form an agenda. People who have never run for elected office, worked for an elected official or held a party position. Arrive at an agenda that is not directed by those already in power.

Once an agenda is set, open the door to people who are willing to commit to the party agenda 100%. Once again, only those who have never run for elected office, worked for an elected official or held a party position would be accepted.

It would take a couple of election cycles but it is the ONLY way I see Upstate surviving.

[300miles]

That is a lobby group.

While I like what they stand for.....to me....it is pointless. Lobby groups are not going to fix anything simply because the same fools are running the show.

Now if the agenda for this group was put towards an upstate wide election push as a campaign platform...and new leaders were to be put out on this platform....then you might have something.
We have to start somewhere, and they've got the ball rolling by getting upstate businesses on board. You can't just throw candidates out there without political and financial support to back them up.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

We have to start somewhere, and they've got the ball rolling by getting upstate businesses on board. You can't just throw candidates out there without political and financial support to back them up.

My point was starting anywhere but a fresh start is not going to work.

Unshackle Upstate has some great ideas, those ideas can transfer. The business leaders will follow those ideas. The employees who really believe in reform will follow the ideas.

The only way for things to change is to arrive in Albany "untainted" if you will. The only way to do this is to remove any association from the beginning.

As for financing, you can raise much more in nickles and dimes from everyone compared to millions from a select few.

[300miles]

The organization can support whoever they choose to. If a fresh untainted newbie was running they could immediately support him/her. The fact that the organization is already build up to support someone is massively important, otherwise without the backing of the major pol parties, the candidate's message would never get beyond their front yard.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

The organization can support whoever they choose to. If a fresh untainted newbie was running they could immediately support him/her. The fact that the organization is already build up to support someone is massively important, otherwise without the backing of the major pol parties, the candidate's message would never get beyond their front yard.

I have to disagree. The internet changed all of that.

With the technology that exists today, you could accomplish so much. The problem is most people who are active in politics, have no idea of how to use technology.

Even looking at the UnshackleUpstate site....it is crap. There are no participation tools. The content is loaded in pdf and doc format, which is invisible to the search engines. There is no user generated content or participation.

People do not read snail mail...but political groups still use it. Television and Radio are too commercial and messaging is polished to the point where there is no message.


Take a look at speakup. While there are some people who simply restate what they are told to think, most people here have a much deeper understand of what is actually going on. But think about how many "full time users" are on here. Less than 50. For a region over 1,000,000.

Look at WNYmedia and BRO, those sites have good traffic but their views are so slanted all they do is attract people of similar minds and a select few who like to argue.


With very little money, with the right people, a site could be built that has ZERO political bias. The sole purpose would be to create an agenda that represents the collective whole of "upstate" regardless of job or political affilation.

Kevin Gaughan can not get into town board meetings. I ask why the hell he tries. He is at the mercy of their scheduling and rules. With some simple software, he could hold online webinars availible to ANYONE at anytime. Production is so freaking simple you would be amaized.

People think they need media money to get the word out. BS. With the right tools, you can reach 2M people for a couple hundred dollars a month via email and get imediate feedback on reaction.

You do not need many votes to change things.

It took 64k people to send Stachowski back to office. It took 37k for Volker. Antoine Thompson ran unopposed for Christ Sake and got just under 66k. The list goes on. The same voting happens in every other county.

Do you think people are happy with people like Volker or Stachowski...if they have a clue, they would not...regardless of party. They elect these fools because they would rather have them than their opposition.

What you have in Upstate are a bunch of voters who vote party lines. People in Erie Count have no idea who is running in Monroe County or Onondaga county and the people in Albany want to keep it that way.

With the way Stachowski got the shaft, the case can be made for Upstate to play the same hand next time. With the way that Volker is utterly powerless now, the case can be made for a viable 3rd party. But Upstate has to be united.

Upstate is not going to unite behind just business owners, which is all Unshackle really is. While they need to be a signifiant part of the solution, the power needs to come from the small business owner who is not impressive enough to be listed on their site. It needs to come from the working stiff, not belonging to a union, who is given a choice to really shake things up.

[300miles]

I have to disagree. The internet changed all of that.

With the technology that exists today, you could accomplish so much. The problem is most people who are active in politics, have no idea of how to use technology.

Even looking at the UnshackleUpstate site....it is crap. There are no participation tools. The content is loaded in pdf and doc format, which is invisible to the search engines. There is no user generated content or participation. ...
OK... so then why isn't it already happening? If anyone can start a campaign from their desktops, then it should already be going on today. What are you waiting for? Why aren't you running for office?

The reason is: because it's never that simple. You need time and money to run for office. You need time and money to push a cause. You need to have the financial security to set aside your own career and focus on revamping NY's political machine. You can't do that just by blogging a couple hours after dinner. You need financial and political support from people that already know the system.... i.e. people already on the inside.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

OK... so then why isn't it already happening? If anyone can start a campaign from their desktops, then it should already be going on today. What are you waiting for? Why aren't you running for office?


A little defensive there guy? Running for office has nothing to do with the conversation.

As for why it is not happening? Several reasons I guess? The main reason is the ignorance of most on the vast differences between muni/state and federal politics.

Try to talk to anyone about local politics and inevitably someone will bring in nation figures or party affiliations.


The reason is: because it's never that simple. You need time and money to run for office. You need time and money to push a cause. You need to have the financial security to set aside your own career and focus on revamping NY's political machine. You can't do that just by blogging a couple hours after dinner. You need financial and political support from people that already know the system.... i.e. people already on the inside.

"You need time and money to run for office" is your problem IMO. It is not the official but rather the policy behind the official. That is the problem. You can not teach an old dog new tricks.

It does not cost ANYTHING to run if the goal is not to run. Policy is not created by the official but rather the movements that get officials elected. Look at the unions, they never run a guy. They just get enough votes to force those who are elected to vote how they want.

Your idea that you need people on the inside to change this is exactly why people who share your mindset will never change anything.


Voters agree on more thing then they disagree on. But those on the "inside" do not want voters to agree on things. If they did, those in office would lose power.

We agree on the changes needed, the only difference is I am not insane. I realize that doing the same thing and expecting different results is not going to happen.

[300miles]

Sorry, no I'm not being defensive or even attacking... I'm just trying to point out when people talk about how the internet allows us to circumvent all the existing institutions, that that is absolutely untrue in many cases. Had that been true, we'd have change by now... which we don't.I don't think my outlook is "insane", I thing it's realistic and pragmatic. We can't write off all existing politicians as "the Problem" and only support unknown and unproven people that rant on a website because we need an insider to help actually get things implemented. Otherwise we're going nowhere.If you can show me a few examples of average joe citizens that have accomplished drastic changes in state policy without any support from the existing political establishment, i'd love to hear about them.

[Achbek1]

Yes! Let them downstaters be like the Quebecois! :p

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Sorry, no I'm not being defensive or even attacking... I'm just trying to point out when people talk about how the internet allows us to circumvent all the existing institutions, that that is absolutely untrue in many cases. Had that been true, we'd have change by now... which we don't.I don't think my outlook is "insane", I thing it's realistic and pragmatic. We can't write off all existing politicians as "the Problem" and only support unknown and unproven people that rant on a website because we need an insider to help actually get things implemented. Otherwise we're going nowhere.If you can show me a few examples of average joe citizens that have accomplished drastic changes in state policy without any support from the existing political establishment, i'd love to hear about them.


The internet is why Obama is POTUS! He drove around the machine and his car was the internet. The internet and technology does not work by itself. It needs to be managed. It is also transparent. Once it is out there...it is out there.

The interned has changed the face of national politics. It simply has yet to catch on for local. It has proven to work, regardless of your ingnorance. My point was things will not change until something different is done. You want to ride the same dead pony in the race, which is your choice. I am talking about a new breed.



It terms of how it changed things here is a great summary (http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/11/05/eight-reasons-the-internet-has-changed-politics-forever):

Game Changer #1:
http://images.ientrymail.com/webpronews/article_pics/internet_politics_obama.jpg Possibly most game changing of all has been Obama's use of the Internet to raise money. In the 1980's, it was Republicans who altered fundraising by successfully using computers to fine tune and manage mailing lists of donors, which was utilized to help them take over Congress for the first time in 40 years. That was no small feat. However, the Obama campaign used (http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/11/propelled-by-in.html) the Internet to help them raise over $600 million in contributions from (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7704360.stm) over 3 million donors.
Barack Obama's campaign has singlehandedly destroyed the concept of public financing of major political contests. Ironically, it was the Democrats who championed the public financing of presidential campaigns, and it is they who have killed it. The $600 million spent this election by Obama will likely be a billion dollars per candidate in four years.
Game Changer #2:
News enlightenment sites such as the Drudge Report (http://drudgereport.com/) and The Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/) have gained significant influence since the last election. The Drudge Report recently posted this on his front page:
<tt>THANKS FOR MAKING OCTOBER 2008 THE BIGGEST MONTH IN DRUDGEREPORT'S 13 YEAR HISTORY! THE PAGE WAS VIEWED 798,524,935 TIMES FROM 153,563,619 VISITS FOR MONTH, NEARLY 6X SITE'S TRAFFIC IN OCTOBER '04... AND SOMEHOW IT FEELS LIKE IT'S ONLY JUST STARTING... (http://drudgereport.com/stats.jpg)</tt>
The Drudge report in particular can make mainstream media pay attention to a story by simply linking to it. Major news outlets don't want to look foolish not covering a story that they know was seen on Drudge by 30 million people.
Game Changer #3:
The use of the Internet to attract and organize volunteers by the Obama campaign was arguably the number one reason Obama won the election. He came in with the experience that organizing a community around political action is very important, and in his campaign for President he used the power of the Internet to effectively rally and organize. It was a brilliant strategy that was not matched by McCain in this election.
According to Wired.com (http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/11/propelled-by-in.html), myBarackObama.com chalked up some 1.5 million volunteer accounts. Combining this organizational ability with Internet fundraising has dramatically altered how campaigns will be waged in the future.
Game Changer #4:
http://images.ientrymail.com/webpronews/article_pics/internet_politics_cnn.jpg Mainstream news websites such as CNN.com, MSNBC.com and FOXNews.com have overtaken their television counterparts as the place people get their news. For example, CNN.com reportedly (http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/11/05/record-traffic-day-at-cnncom-27-million-uniques-276-million-page-views/) received a huge Election Day audience of 27 million unique visitors to their site. These visitors generated over 276 million page views in one day. Simply amazing.
Game Changer #5:
Internet video clips have become mainstream, both as a way to illustrate political points and to view clips of the candidates from news and entertainment television shows. For instance, a clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdDqSvJ6aHc) of Sarah Palin's appearance on Saturday Night Live was viewed 7,264,478 times on YouTube. A recent politically inspired clip of Barack Obamba discussing (http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/10/27/obama-redistribution-of-wealth-video-rockets-on-youtube) on a radio show his desire to "spread the wealth" around was viewed on YouTube 2,393,392 times. This in particular has changed political marketing forever.
Political news watched via Internet video clips clearly has become mainstream, as illustrated (http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/11/cnn-com-s-big-day) by the huge viewing numbers for election day on CNN.com:


CNN.com Live: 4.9 million live streams

additional 6.7 million on-demand video streams

News often isn't TiVo’d, but it apparently is watched in large numbers on the news websites and YouTube.
Game Changer #6:
http://images.ientrymail.com/webpronews/article_pics/internet_politics_hinderaker.jpg Partisan political blogs like PowerLineBlog.com (http://www.powerlineblog.com/) and DailyKos.com (http://www.dailykos.com/) have become even more important. Yes, political blogs made CBS and Dan Rather look silly in the last election, but with this election they have become legit voices of political opinion. The 2008 election has solidified the political blogger as an authority voice in politics. Some of them, such as John H. Hinderaker of Power Line and Markos Moulitsas of Daily Kos, regularily appear on network and cable news shows.
Game Changer #7:
Niche non-partisan political sites like RealClearPolitics.com (http://realclearpolitics.com/) and Politico.com (http://www.politico.com/) have become mainstream. The RealClearPolitics.com poll average map in particular has been routinely source-referenced by the major television networks and news websites. This has changed how news organization report on poll data and has made people more understanding of variations in polls. Outlying poll results are not given as much credence as in the past.
Game Changer #8:
Social media hardly existed four years ago, but during this election the candidates and their supporters used sites such as Twitter, Facebook and MySpace aggressively. I think this is a strategy that will continue to evolve over the next four years to possibly become one of the most powerful weapons a candidate has in their quest to organize, rally, raise funds, and ultimately win the presidency.

[300miles]

you said earlier you weren't referring to running for office... So why the reference to Obama? If you are talking about running for office, then it goes back to the point I made earlier that we need people INSIDE the system. Obama is a politician. He's inside the system.

Everything else about the internet is only valid if it impacts somebody already elected to take action. A blog or petition is meaningless until someone with the power and influence to actually make the change is involved.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

you said earlier you weren't referring to running for office... So why the reference to Obama? If you are talking about running for office, then it goes back to the point I made earlier that we need people INSIDE the system. Obama is a politician. He's inside the system.

Everything else about the internet is only valid if it impacts somebody already elected to take action. A blog or petition is meaningless until someone with the power and influence to actually make the change is involved.You have zero ability in the abstract thinking department. The main reference to Obama was from an article that I did not write. You completely overlooked the power of the internet and focused on a name.

Another point you missed was Obama was a nobody 5 years ago on the national political scene. He was a 1st term Senator who was elected President. He was not the choice of the DNC, Clinton was. Clinton was the machine, Obama was the outsider in the Democratic party. By using the Internet and Technology, he and his supporters beat the DNC machine. He was a long shot in every way you look at it.

Additional to that, Obama was more of the front of a movement rather than a power figure. He won because he reached out, via technology, and figured out what Dems wanted to hear. His campaign was nothing more than a summary of his grassroot efforts.

If the Internet can get a nobody elected to POTUS in less than 5 years, I am pretty confident it can work to get new politicans elected in districts where 60K votes are needed. But hey...keep thinking your way guy.

I think you are naive simply because you keep on talking about getting in with the insiders. These are elected officials, their constituents should not have to beg for action that they want. Doing a clean upstate sweep would STILL put people on the inside guy, they just would be new and actually in touch with what the hell is the matter or what people want.

[300miles]

Seriously, I don't think I'm the one being naive here. This is NYS. And we're talking about getting influence for WNY, which right now has zero influence. It will not happen without political muscle from the inside. We need to get people elected to do that... and those candidates need money to do that.

Obama did not get elected president because he utilized the internet. That certainly helped obviously. But if he was not already an estabished political leader (as US Senator) or if the national Democratic Party had not supported him, you and I would have never heard of him.

[Anotherview]

How do you go about getting this change on the ballot for vote?

[BuffaloIce]

Republican WNY vs. Democratic NYC?

[Jim Ostrowski]

Upstate should split and be called "NewYork State."

The city and its metro area should become the 51st state--the state of New York City--keep the same name, it's cleaner.

It's not so much upstate v. down but the statewide political class against the real working class in both regions.

[Anotherview]

Upstate should split and be called "NewYork State."

The city and its metro area should become the 51st state--the state of New York City--keep the same name, it's cleaner.

It's not so much upstate v. down but the statewide political class against the real working class in both regions.

So where do we start in order to put this into action? I'm ready.

[Dougles]

So where do we start in order to put this into action? I'm ready.

Ditto!

[run4it]

Again, for the same reason as DC, why are we even talking about it? IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!! THE US CONGRESS WILL NEVER APPROVE IT!! We should waste our breath at least on something that has a chance to happen.

Also, why do you think whatever new seat of government for upstate would be run any different? If political history tells us anything, it's that incumbency is king, so our representatives (i.e. government) probably wouldn't change all that much anyway.

By the way, I'm wondering why some people are all for NYC statehood, but against DC statehood (looking at YOU, Lacks).

[Jim Ostrowski]

It's highly unlikely but not impossible. History teaches that virtually nothing is impossible in politics.

Whether possible or not, it serves a nice pedagogical purpose of dramatizing the fact that Upstate is a mere colony of Downstate.

Example, Gillibrand has already stated to shift her views to suit NYC.
Simple human pride dictates that while we are a colony of NYC, we don’t have to like it or be silent about it.

I don't get the DC reference at all. It was never a state; it was a swamp!

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Again, for the same reason as DC, why are we even talking about it? IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!! THE US CONGRESS WILL NEVER APPROVE IT!! We should waste our breath at least on something that has a chance to happen.


While I agree that the odds are about as high as several members of Speakup winning the lotto, I do not think it is impossible.

But IF the possibility of Upstate becoming its own state were to ever reach Congress, I actually think it would happen. I just do not think it will get that far.

The reason why I think Congress would approve is simple. It would correct a lot of problems for the Federal level. If a new state of Upstate were formed, every bad choice, bad contract and bad law would have the chance to be cleaned up. If this were done, you could realisticly create to healthy states of Upstate and NYC because of the correction. This would place less burden on the Federal government to support the sick and weak State of New York.

Also, why do you think whatever new seat of government for upstate would be run any different? If political history tells us anything, it's that incumbency is king, so our representatives (i.e. government) probably wouldn't change all that much anyway.

The reason I am assuming is those elected officials would not hold the same powers they do for the State of New York in an "Upstate" Constitutional Convention. While somehow people like Dale Volker get elected to go to Albany and do nothing, I doubt the public would trust him to write a State Constitution.

By the way, I'm wondering why some people are all for NYC statehood, but against DC statehood (looking at YOU, Lacks).

Because DC is a Federal District. NYC is a metro region in a State. There is precedent for State to split, although not in the last 150+ years, but the intent for a Federal Independent District has been to remain independent of States for obvious reasons.

[300miles]

One reason I can think of that this will never happen: it would open up a floodgate of similar requests in other states, and lead to a national re-drawing of state lines... something our govt is not in the mood to handle.

We are unique only because NYC is so incredibly large, but other states do have similar issues... Northern California vs. Southern California... Western Kansas vs. Eastern Kansas... Michigan vs. Detroit... Eastern Pennsylvania vs. Western Pennsylvania.

The real solution would be to start from scratch and redo state lines of the entire nation. Instead of creating a state for NYC, we could create a state that includes the entire NYC metro in NY, NJ, and PA..... WNY could join a Great Lakes state for regions we have more in common with, like Northern Ohio and Eastern Michigan.

Of course this would never happen. The boundaries are established historically and will stay that way now.

[Anotherview]

It's highly unlikely but not impossible.

So where do we begin to explore the possibility?

[Mr. Lackawanna]

Again, for the same reason as DC, why are we even talking about it? IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!! THE US CONGRESS WILL NEVER APPROVE IT!! We should waste our breath at least on something that has a chance to happen.

Also, why do you think whatever new seat of government for upstate would be run any different? If political history tells us anything, it's that incumbency is king, so our representatives (i.e. government) probably wouldn't change all that much anyway.

By the way, I'm wondering why some people are all for NYC statehood, but against DC statehood (looking at YOU, Lacks).

The poll question was:
Should NYC be considered as a State?


My answerer was yes. The key word in my reply is “considered.“ Considering NYC for statehood is not endorsing NYC for statehood. Where in my reply did I say that I supported NYC becoming a State.

Why should I support NYC becoming a State when that would add 2 more Liberal Democratic votes to the Senate.

[Dougles]

Why should I support NYC becoming a State when that would add 2 more Liberal Democratic votes to the Senate.


NYS is already represented by two liberals!

But it might create to moderates/IP's or repubs from upstate!

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

We are unique only because NYC is so incredibly large, but other states do have similar issues... Northern California vs. Southern California... Western Kansas vs. Eastern Kansas... Michigan vs. Detroit... Eastern Pennsylvania vs. Western Pennsylvania.

I am not sure you can compare the NYC/Upstate divide to other areas.

Northern California and Southern California but have strong areas in both and enough population in both were representation is somewhat equal.

I do not know much about Kansas..maybe there would be a split there.

A Michigan v. Detroit is not similar because Detroit is a whole. NYC is not.

Western PA and Eastern PA both have anchor metro regions, which are somewhat similar.

What I am trying to say is it is hard to find a state where the politics are so focused on a region and that regions economy.

[300miles]

I agree... the reasons for splitting are completely different. But I was trying to show that if NY decided to split and submitted the idea to Washington, then other states would also want to do the same. It a precedence thing.