I can't believe Karl Rove isn't in jail!!!

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Okay. So Karl Rove "outs" a secret CIA operative. I'm assuming that is illegal. But aside from that, the White House promised that anyone who had anything to do with the Valerie Plame affair who was connected with the Administration would be ousted.

Rove's lawyer admits that Rove was the leak. So, why is Rove still around???? Talk about ironic. A NY Times reporter is in jail for refusing to name Rove as her source. Her critics say she deserves jail time for trying to set herself about the law.

The guy who she is protecting admits his role, but I don't think he'll be going to jail. Guess he must be above the law.

[LHardy]

In questioning Bolton, Kerry read from a transcript of closed-door interviews that committee staffers conducted with State Department officials before yesterday's hearing.

"Did Otto Reich share his belief that [the person in question] should be removed from his position? The answer is yes," Kerry said, characterizing one interview. "Did John Bolton share that view?" Kerry asked. Again, he said the answer was yes.


Senate hearings on confirmation of Bolton. John Kerry outting a CIA agent Otto Reich.

Good for the goose good for the gander.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by LHardy
In questioning Bolton, Kerry read from a transcript of closed-door interviews that committee staffers conducted with State Department officials before yesterday's hearing.

"Did Otto Reich share his belief that [the person in question] should be removed from his position? The answer is yes," Kerry said, characterizing one interview. "Did John Bolton share that view?" Kerry asked. Again, he said the answer was yes.


Senate hearings on confirmation of Bolton. John Kerry outting a CIA agent Otto Reich.

Good for the goose good for the gander.

I didn't remember that so I did some online research. I couldn't find any newspapers that covered that incident, but from the blogs I found it sounded like Kerry slipped in using Reich's name, and thereafter every one called him Mr. Smith.

That's far different from what Rove did, which was a tactic used as retaliation. Not only that, he obviously scouted around to various reporters to make sure the leak got out. Obviously, it wasn't an accidental slip.

Whether you approve of what he did or not, the WH nontheless vowed that if anyone in the Administration was involved, he/she would be removed.

I'm waiting.......

[ERIEMAN]

I wish the democratic party woudl start taking notes. Any time a republican has done something stupid, the response to the democrats has been "So what?", leaving the demo party stuttering and looking stupid.

R:"Clinton had SEX in the oval office with an INTERN!"
D:"Yeah, so what?"
R:"That is immoral, and shows he is a crappy president"
D:"So?"
R:"He should be impeached!"
D:"Yeah, whatever"
R:"But the blue dress..."
D:"you know, ill bet we could put a man on mars in a few years"
R:"Don't try to change the subject"
D:"9/11!"

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by ERIEMAN
I wish the democratic party woudl start taking notes. Any time a republican has done something stupid, the response to the democrats has been "So what?", leaving the demo party stuttering and looking stupid.

R:"Clinton had SEX in the oval office with an INTERN!"
D:"Yeah, so what?"
R:"That is immoral, and shows he is a crappy president"
D:"So?"
R:"He should be impeached!"
D:"Yeah, whatever"
R:"But the blue dress..."
D:"you know, ill bet we could put a man on mars in a few years"
R:"Don't try to change the subject"
D:"9/11!"


LOL! You're right, though. The Dems could do to take a few lessons from the GOP (unfortunately)/

[LHardy]

I didn't remember that so I did some online research. I couldn't find any newspapers that covered that incident

Just try the congressional minutes. It was covered.

and thereafter every one called him Mr. Smith.

Everyone but Kerry, but that's OK?
So everyone after Rove called her Mrs. Smith.
Alrighty then, it must be OK! You just said so.

That's far different from what Rove did, which was a tactic used as retaliation. Not only that, he obviously scouted around to various reporters to make sure the leak got out. Obviously, it wasn't an accidental slip.


If true?
Not so dumb after all uhmmm?
Nothing in Washington is an accident.

if anyone in the Administration was involved, he/she would be removed.

I'm waiting.......

Lets' wait yes! If quilty he's gone! You know Bush has always done what he said he would do.
How about your team? With there quilty players?

[steven]

what does kerry have to do with this? If Kerry would have shot someone does that mean Karl can to? Jezz

[LHardy]

Kerry- Outting CIA operative- Congressional hearings - Fact
Rove - Alleged Outting CIA - News article - Circumstantial Evidence at best.
Good for the goose, Good for the Gander.

[WestCoastPerspective]

if he hasn't held a press conference to address the issue, casting a dark cloud over the White House by waiting....signals some kind of guilt IMO. If you have nothing to hide, lets get him on the record denouncing the report. And when/if it comes out, he can say either I told you so or we can see a liar.

[LHardy]

if he hasn't held a press conference to address the issue, casting a dark cloud over the White House by waiting....signals some kind of guilt IMO.

Only at this time no one can talk about it until the investigation is complete. So that will not happen anytime soon.

[WestSideJohn]

Here's a question for "Good for the Goose Good for the Gander" LHardy:

Why is Judith Miller going to jail when Robert Novak - you know, the guy who actually printed the "leak" - is free? Keep in mind... Robert Novak reported the leak itself, and Judith Miller was simply interviewing people about the reporting of the leak. She's an entire step removed from the issue compared to Robert Novak. So how come nobody asked him to name his sources? Did it just plum slip their minds?

I have a feeling that your reply will suddenly <i>not</i> be What's Good for the Goose Is Good for the Gander. I'd be delighted to have you prove me wrong by agreeing that Robert Novak should be in jail before Judith Miller.

[LHardy]

Judith Miller is in contempt of court that is why she is in jail. She didn't have to go it was her choice.
Novak was not in contempt of court. Nor did he refuse to cooperate with the Congress.

[steven]

Originally posted by LHardy
Kerry- Outting CIA operative- Congressional hearings - Fact
Rove - Alleged Outting CIA - News article - Circumstantial Evidence at best.
Good for the goose, Good for the Gander.

That's nonsense, if they are both guilty lock them both up. You sound like rush limbaugh now, every time a republican gets caught dirty he brings up Clintons infidelity. Clinton isn't and hast been president now for 6 yrs.... its old and stale let it go.

Kerry is not the presidents no 1 advisor, Karl is. Along with the perks that come with the job comes all the scrutiny the position entails. If some councilman in Buffalo got caught doing the same thing would he be held to as high a standard as someone on the presidents staff? Get real. Stop trying to blur what's going on by bringing in unrelated incidents.

Deflection is starting to become the political mantra in this country. Don't try to defend or apologize for what was done, bring up something totally unrelated that someone on the other side did to deflect attention.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by steven
That's nonsense, if they are both guilty lock them both up. You sound like rush limbaugh now, every time a republican gets caught dirty he brings up Clintons infidelity. Clinton isn't and hast been president now for 6 yrs.... its old and stale let it go.

Kerry is not the presidents no 1 advisor, Karl is. Along with the perks that come with the job comes all the scrutiny the position entails. If some councilman in Buffalo got caught doing the same thing would he be held to as high a standard as someone on the presidents staff? Get real. Stop trying to blur what's going on by bringing in unrelated incidents.

Deflection is starting to become the political mantra in this country. Don't try to defend or apologize for what was done, bring up something totally unrelated that someone on the other side did to deflect attention.

you just don't remember 9/11.

shame on you.

[steven]

Rove - Alleged Outting CIA - News article - Circumstantial Evidence at best.

Guilt

For nearly two years, White House officials have maintained that Rove had nothing to do with the exposure of Plame's identity. White House press secretary Scott McClellan would not repeat that assertion this week in light of comments by Rove's attorney, Robert D. Luskin, acknowledging that Rove spoke with Cooper.


and more deflection


Some White House officials and Bush advisers are privately expressing doubts about whether Rove can survive the latest controversy. Others say they have been assured that Bush solidly supports Rove, and they are braced to defend him. Their strategy is to accuse Democrats of being on a witch hunt.

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050713/1052702.asp

How pathetic is this whole situation?

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by LHardy
Kerry- Outting CIA operative- Congressional hearings - Fact
Rove - Alleged Outting CIA - News article - Circumstantial Evidence at best.
Good for the goose, Good for the Gander.


Nothing circumstantial about what Rove did. He has admited through his attorney to his role in this incident. Rove also did his best to make sure the media picked up his leak.


Aside from web sites, none of the media picked up the Kerry thing. In fact, I don't think anyone would have noticed if the bloggers hadn't made a deal of it. The name was mentioned exactly once. Thereafter, everyone -- including Kerry -- referred to the guy as Mr. Smith

[Linda_D]

Is this the Otto Reich you're talking about, Levi???

A really nice guy. He fits right in with the rest of the Bush War Mongers.

Public Diplomacy?
Contra Warrior Otto Reich Returns to the State Department
By John Patrick Leary

Another seminal figure from one of the most troubling episodes in the United States' recent history has been quietly restored to his old stomping grounds. Otto Reich, like Elliot Abrams and John Negroponte one of the officials most responsible for devising and administering the destructive "Reagan doctrine" in 1980s Central America, has been given a top job in the Bush administration. The former head of a pro-Contra government office, Reich was named Assistant Secretary of State for the Western Hemisphere during the February Senate recess.

Elliot Abrams, the conservative State Department official who during the 1980s regularly misled Congress and the public about the abuses of the U.S.-supported Salvadoran dictatorship, was later pardoned by the elder George Bush before standing trial for his role in the Iran-Contra affair. His son rewarded Abrams with a top White House job last year. In 1981, when the U.S. ambassador to Honduras complained about human rights abuses by the Honduran military regime (which the U.S. was supporting), Reagan promptly removed him and replaced him with yes-man Negroponte. He is now the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.

Lastly, there is the Cuban-born Reich, who was first nominated for his new position last March. During the Reagan administration, Reich led a murky interagency outfit called the Office of Public Diplomacy for Latin America and the Caribbean, an obfuscatory bit of official nomenclature which, like the German Democratic Republic or "military intelligence," is something of a paradox, as Reich's office was, in fact, neither public nor diplomatic.

The organization, which was declared illegal after a 1987 investigation by the U.S. Comptroller General, was charged with disseminating what it called "White Propaganda"-covert misinformation designed to influence public opinion in favor of Reagan's military campaign against Nicaragua's Sandinista government and other leftist groups in the region. (This is, of course, exactly the work currently handled by the Pentagon's Office of Strategic Influence, the subject of much recent controversy.)

For starters, Reich's office drafted pro-Reagan op-ed pieces that ran under fabricated bylines; White House statements supposedly written by American university professors and Nicaraguan Contras thus made their way into U.S. newspapers (Reich himself reportedly liked to refer to National Public Radio as "Moscow on the Potomac").

More mundanely, the office regularly planted stories designed to embarrass or contradict the Sandinista regime. After distributing one secret Nicaraguan government communication, a smug OPD official wrote his White House colleague Pat Buchanan in a memo: "Do not be surprised if this cable somehow hits the evening news." But manipulating the press was not the only trick up the OPD's sleeve; the Comptroller General's report also indicates that the office supplied "a great deal" of information to pro-Reagan lobbying groups and political organizations that favored the Contra war.

For a president whose campaign promised to restore candor and diplomacy to official Washington, the ex-director of an outlawed propaganda office seems a puzzling choice indeed for one of the government's most important posts in Latin American affairs.

Furthermore, at a time when our government is engaged in a righteous "war against terrorism," it is notable that Bush has chosen to reinstate a central figure from a time when the U.S. armed, funded, and trained a right-wing landowner's militia that it called an army of "freedom fighters," which amounted to a distinction of more than just semantics.

Bush deliberately appointed Reich during the February Senate recess, and so he will assume his post without the confirmation hearings that are customary for a job of this importance. Legislators like Joseph Biden (D-DE), the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that will not hold hearings on this appointment, quietly expressed their displeasure with Bush's tactics.

The president has made much of his desire to forge a new relationship with Latin America based on mutual cooperation and "openness," economic and otherwise. The return of old Reagan Contra-warriors like Abrams, Negroponte, and Reich--not to mention outfits like the Office of Strategic Influence--do more than just summon old grudges and sad memories. The US right has recently begun clamoring for intervention in Colombia's civil war, where death squads and a corrupt military--frequently acting together for what Eduardo Galeano aptly termed the Colombian "democratorship"--combat two aging insurgencies.

Recast as a theater in the new "war on terrorism," the Colombian civil war reminds us instead that the horrors of torture and war--and the more massive scourges of poverty, illiteracy, and inequality--have not left the hemisphere that gave the English language a dreadful word, "the disappeared."

Bush's move to circumvent the confirmation process in appointing the ex-propagandist Reich recalls that more contentious time in U.S. relations with Latin America, when secrecy, expediency, and inept self-interest were far more familiar than any "public diplomacy."

Otto Reich (http://www.counterpunch.org/ottoreich1.html)

[Linda_D]

Here's the dope on Kerry's supposed "outing" of a CIA operative:

Monday :: April 11, 2005
Fulton Armstrong and Mr. Smith
At least one right wing blog is suggesting Sens. John Kerry and Richard Lugar blew the cover of a CIA operative referred to as "Mr. Smith" at today's Senate Hearing. The person they referred to was Fulton Armstrong.

Only Fulton Armstrong has been a publicly identified intellgence officer for years. He was the CIA's national intelligence officer for Latin America. Kerry didn't out anything. Even the story about him being forced out of the CIA has been in the media.


From Salon:

Put it this way, with this White House, I see an outright pattern of bullying: Gen. Eric Shinseki, the former Army chief of staff, warned that the U.S. was going to need several hundred thousand troops in Iraq, and he's attacked for that, and basically told that he doesn't know what he's talking about -- and he's fired essentially a year before he's out of that job. When it's time for him to retire, not a single senior representative of the Department of Defense or White House leadership is there for his retirement. ... There was a senior CIA analyst by the name of Fulton Armstrong who was attacked, using leaks to the press, which alleged that he was disloyal and somehow under the influence of the Cuban government. There was a prosecutor [ousted from] the Department of Justice who had warned that John Walker Lindh's father had hired a lawyer and that [the DOJ] needed to consider the Miranda rights. [emphasis supplied]

Here's his official bio from 2003.

Fulton Armstrong
National Intelligence Officer for Latin America

Fulton T. Armstrong was appointed National Intelligence Officer for Latin America on 1 June 2000. Previously Mr. Armstrong served as Chief of Staff of the DCI Crime and Narcotics Center (CNC). Prior to that, he served two terms as a Director for Inter-American Affairs at the National Security Council (1995-97 and 1998-99) and as Deputy NIO for Latin America (1997-98).

Mr. Armstrong began his government career in 1980 as Legislative Assistant and Press Secretary to US Representative Jim Leach. In 1984-95, he served as analyst, political-economic officer, and manager specializing in Latin America in the both the intelligence and policy communities.

Prior to joining government, Mr. Armstrong worked four years as a reporter, editor, and translator in Taiwan. He earned his B.S. in Linguistics and Spanish at Georgetown University in 1976. He is fluent in Spanish and Mandarin Chinese.

Bio link via ArmsControWank.

Another bio from Who's on First's list of Bush appointees:

National Intelligence Officer for Latin America: Fulton Armstrong, previously Chief of Staff of the DCI Crime and Narcotics Center (CNC). Prior to that, he served two terms as a Director for Inter-American Affairs at the National Security Council (1995-97 and 1998-99) and as Deputy NIO for Latin America (1997-98). In 1980 he was Legislative Assistant and Press Secretary to US Rep. Jim Leach. In 1984-95, he served as analyst, political-economic officer, and manager specializing in Latin America in the both the intelligence and policy communities.

Update: LGF has a new post saying I misrepresented its post in writing they suggested John Kerry blew a CIA agent's cover. Charles points out that he updated the post to say information about Mr. Armstrong is on the Internet. But the title to his original post still reads, "Kerry Blows CIA Agent's Cover" and putting the title together with the content of his post, I think it's fair to say he "suggested" Sens. John Kerry and Richard Lugar blew the cover of a CIA operative.

Fulton Armstrong (http://talkleft.com/new_archives/010338.html)

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by Linda_D
Here's the dope on Kerry's supposed "outing" of a CIA operative:



Fulton Armstrong (http://talkleft.com/new_archives/010338.html)


I'm confused. Again. So who is it that Kerry supposedly outted? Reich or this other guy?

[biker]

Originally posted by atotaltotalfan2001
Okay. So Karl Rove "outs" a secret CIA operative. I'm assuming that is illegal. .

Faulty assumption.

Faulty thread.


But not a faulty poster.

"Hate the sin; love the sinner."

[Linda_D]

Originally posted by atotaltotalfan2001
I'm confused. Again. So who is it that Kerry supposedly outted? Reich or this other guy?

I'm also confused, but obviously not nearly as confused as the people putting this stuff out on the Internet.

You've got to excuse the bloggers, though ... you know, all those CIA types look the same...

[LHardy]

Ex-Prosecutor: Plame Leak Not Illegal
The former prosecutor who helped draft the law that Democrats say was violated when someone in the Bush administration leaked a CIA worker's name to columnist Robert Novak now says that no laws were broken in the case.

Writing with First Amendment lawyer Bruce Sanford in the Washington Post recently, former Assistant Deputy Attorney General Victoria Toensing explained that she helped draft the law in question, the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act.
Says Toensing, "The Novak column and the surrounding facts do not support evidence of criminal conduct."
For Plame's outing to have been illegal, the one-time deputy AG says, "her status as undercover must be classified." Also, Plame "must have been assigned to duty outside the United States currently or in the past five years."
Since in neither case does Plame qualify, Toensing says: "There is a serious legal question as to whether she qualifies as 'covert.'"
The law also requires that the celebrated non-spy's outing take place by someone who knew the government had taken "affirmative measures to conceal [the agent's] relationship" to the U.S., a prospect Toensing says is unlikely.
Other signs that no laws were broken include the fact that after Plame was outted, the CIA's general counsel took no steps to prosecute Novak, as has been done to other reporters under similar circumstances.
Neither did then-CIA Director George Tenet or his deputy pick up the phone to tell Novak that the publication of her name would threaten national security and her safety, as is also routinely done when the CIA is serious about prohibiting publication.
In fact, the myth that laws were violated in the Plame case began to unravel in October 2003, in a column by New York Times scribe Nicholas Kristof, who explained that Valerie Plame had abandoned her covert role a full nine years before.
"The C.I.A. suspected that Aldrich Ames had given [Plame's] name [along with those of other spies] to the Russians before his espionage arrest in 1994. So her undercover security was undermined at that time, and she was brought back to Washington for safety reasons."
Kristof also noted that Plame had begun making the transition to CIA "management" even before she was outted, explaining that "she was moving away from 'noc' – which means non-official cover ... to a new cover as a State Department official, affording her diplomatic protection without having 'C.I.A.' stamped on her forehead."

newsmax.com

[LHardy]

This is just to send you Dems off the deep end.

Prosecutor: Karl Rove Not Target of Probe

Plamegate special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald had told top White House advisor Karl Rove that he's not a target of his investigation into who leaked the identity of CIA analyst Valerie Plame to columnist Robert Novak.

And Fitzgerald has also asked the top Bush aide not to discuss the case in public.

Speaking to National Review Online's Byron York late Tuesday, Rove attorney Robert Luskin said Fitzgerald "has told Rove he is not a 'target' of the investigation" - despite media reports suggesting otherwise.
Fitzgerald has also made it clear, however, that virtually anyone whose conduct falls within the scope of the investigation, including Rove, is considered a "subject" of the probe, Luskin told York.

"'Target' is something we all understand, a very alarming term," he added.

For two days straight, the White House press corps has obsessed over Rove's supposed guilt, pummeling Bush spokesman Scott McClellan with dozens of questions about the top Bush aide's role in the cse.

Former Reagan Justice Department official Mark Levin told York last night that Luskin's revelation made a big difference. "He is not a target, which is quite different from a subject," Levin said on his WABC radio show. "I know what a target is . . . the prosecutors are chasing you."

"If he's not a target, what the hell is the media up to" by making Rove the focus of their questions, Levin asked?

Luskin also told York that Rove has not spoken publicly, "because Fitzgerald specifically asked him not to."

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/7/13/85526.shtml

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by LHardy
This is just to send you Dems off the deep end.



http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/7/13/85526.shtml

I heard this on NPR the other day. Didn't send me off the deep end at all. But there is no question in my mind that what he did was wrong -- Bush et al acknowledged that by promising to fire anyone from the administration found to be involved.

So, like I said before, I'm waiting for Bush to keep his word. My theory is he "forgot" he said it. It's a problem very catching in the White House. I'm sure his press guy....who keeps ducking the issue too....will have forgotten what the Administration promised too pretty soon.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by atotaltotalfan2001
I heard this on NPR the other day. Didn't send me off the deep end at all. But there is no question in my mind that what he did was wrong -- Bush et al acknowledged that by promising to fire anyone from the administration found to be involved.

So, like I said before, I'm waiting for Bush to keep his word. My theory is he "forgot" he said it. It's a problem very catching in the White House. I'm sure his press guy....who keeps ducking the issue too....will have forgotten what the Administration promised too pretty soon.


Before I forget, why is there an investigation if no laws were broken? Why is it ongoing? Why has it taken so long -- surely these guys had figured out the law by now?

And why isn't Rove, who admits doing the leaking, a target of this so-called investigation?

Does any of this make sense?

[Riven37]

Originally posted by atotaltotalfan2001
Okay. So Karl Rove "outs" a secret CIA operative. I'm assuming that is illegal. But aside from that, the White House promised that anyone who had anything to do with the Valerie Plame affair who was connected with the Administration would be ousted.

Rove's lawyer admits that Rove was the leak. So, why is Rove still around???? Talk about ironic. A NY Times reporter is in jail for refusing to name Rove as her source. Her critics say she deserves jail time for trying to set herself about the law.

The guy who she is protecting admits his role, but I don't think he'll be going to jail. Guess he must be above the law.


Well, I can't believe Jane Fonda isn't in jail....that's politics:rolleyes:

[Linda_D]

Originally posted by Riven37
Well, I can't believe Jane Fonda isn't in jail....that's politics:rolleyes:

Riven, it's time to move on... for your own mental health. Holding a grudge against someone for 30+ years only gives you an ulcer and hypertension.

[steven]

Good grief first he didn't do and claims that he did are "suspect" . Now that he has all but admitted it ..... "He did but its not "technically" illegal."

Who said "fresh ideals and no more BS"? what a disappointment some of you are. It is sad to see some of the people claiming to want reform showing their true colors. Obviously partisan politics is alive and well in some of the self proclaimed " voices of change"

Bush said he would fire who ever did it. Is he a man of his word? That's the only question that needs to be answered here.

[Riven37]

Originally posted by Linda_D
Riven, it's time to move on... for your own mental health. Holding a grudge against someone for 30+ years only gives you an ulcer and hypertension.


What the hell do you know.......I like to see her dead get it !!!

[biker]

Hey Total

You obviously didn't get the memo.

Yesterday, Rush (from whom I get all my views) read advice to Dems from a Democratic blog.

The gist of the advice is

Shut Up!!


The piece posited that, with Dem Senators and their willing allies the main stream media whipping Rove hysteria, rank and file Dems should just sit back and let things play out.

BTW-I value you guys so much, that I even stopped listening to Rush for a while so that I can post. But---and this is one of the many reasons I love the West-----some stations rebroadcast Rush at the "regular" time. So, thankfully, I didn't miss any of yesterdays updates.

[300miles]

As always... assume innocent until proven guilty.


"What [the email] says is, Karl Rove wasn't the leaker, he was actually the recipient of the information, not the provider," Republican National Committee chairman Ken Mehlman said on Fox News. "So there are probably a lot of folks in Washington who have prejudged this, who have rushed to judgment who are trying to smear Karl Rove."

Democrats, however, said that even if Rove wasn't the leaker, someone still divulged Plame's identity and possibly violated the law.

Maybe somebody is guilty. Is it Rove? Let them figure it out instead of assuming you know all the details.

[biker]

I just saw an astounding piece on Fox News this morning.

They had an "expert" on, explaining the law and why this issue is so serious. It was a piece lifted directly from the attack line "it's the seriousness of the charges."

The whole time he was speaking, they had footage of Karl Rove at various events, with the caption "Rove Role" underneath. This went on for five minutes.

The expert concluded that neither Rove nor anyone else will be indicted.

But for five minutes a subliminal message was being sent: pictures of only Rove while the narrator was intoning "serious crime, spies, national security, investigation."

And some of you folks believe FoxNews is a Repub. mouthpiece?


BTW-I guess all you libs got the "SHUT UP" marching orders, 'cause this thread sure has gone quiet.

[jbinbny]

Originally posted by atotaltotalfan2001
Okay. So Karl Rove "outs" a secret CIA operative. I'm assuming that is illegal. But aside from that, the White House promised that anyone who had anything to do with the Valerie Plame affair who was connected with the Administration would be ousted.

Rove's lawyer admits that Rove was the leak. So, why is Rove still around???? Talk about ironic. A NY Times reporter is in jail for refusing to name Rove as her source. Her critics say she deserves jail time for trying to set herself about the law.

The guy who she is protecting admits his role, but I don't think he'll be going to jail. Guess he must be above the law.


I guess the facts came out and Rove is not guilty of these absurd allegations. Too bad for all you liberal kooks out on a witchhunt.

But i really shouldn't be surprised. Most libs open their big mouths before they know the facts. We've seen it over and over again. Dick Durbin comes to mind! And Hillary has practically spent her whole life opening her big mouth before thinking first.

I will tell you liberal "thinkers" that if anyone deserved to go to jail, it was Sandy Berger! The facts are clear here. He removed top secret material from the NSA without permission. Opps sorry, I think you guys want everyone to forget about that huh!

[speaker]

jbibny--I love the way you pick at things to find something, anything, to take posters minds away from the issue--Karl Rove is guilty and Bush is not sticking with his promise. PERIOD.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by jbinbny
I guess the facts came out and Rove is not guilty of these absurd allegations. Too bad for all you liberal kooks out on a witchhunt.

But i really shouldn't be surprised. Most libs open their big mouths before they know the facts. We've seen it over and over again. Dick Durbin comes to mind! And Hillary has practically spent her whole life opening her big mouth before thinking first.

I will tell you liberal "thinkers" that if anyone deserved to go to jail, it was Sandy Berger! The facts are clear here. He removed top secret material from the NSA without permission. Opps sorry, I think you guys want everyone to forget about that huh!

Last I heard, there is still an active investigation being undertaken by the Special Prosecutor, and neither Rove nor anyone else being looked at has been cleared.

In fact, I understand the investigation has been broadened, and additional charges are being considered.

In any case, let's not forget that Rove, through his attorney, admitted outting Plame. He didn't actually mention her name, but I don't think that Wilson guy has that many wives. So it was probably pretty easy to figure out who she was.....

Anyway, I foolishly assumed outting a covert CIA agent would be illegal -- yup, I shot my big mouth off before learning the facts of the law, such as it is.

What a silly assumption I made. What was I thinking? Apparently, Ms. Plame was back in the U.S. for six years before the leak occurred. The law only protects covert CIA agents who have been back here for five or less years.

I'm not sure how much of a difference that makes to all the people Plame covertly associated with during her tenure. Hopefully, none of her sources will face retribution since, after all, no law was broken HERE.

Here's hoping all those foreign spies out there who did business with Plame have sympathetic, understanding governments. I'm sure they do!!!!

As for Sandy Berger, at least SOMETHING actually happened to him. I guarantee you, no matter how guilty Rove or anyone from the Bush Adm inistration turns out to be, nothing will happen to them.

[therising]

Originally posted by jbinbny
I guess the facts came out and Rove is not guilty of these absurd allegations. Too bad for all you liberal kooks out on a witchhunt. B]

????
What did I miss??? What FACTS Came out???
Can you elaborate on this???

[jbinbny]

Originally posted by speaker
jbibny--I love the way you pick at things to find something, anything, to take posters minds away from the issue--Karl Rove is guilty and Bush is not sticking with his promise. PERIOD.


Huh????:confused:

What is the title of this thread anyway? And what did I point out that is not in line with the topic?????

[jbinbny]

Originally posted by speaker
jbibny--I love the way you pick at things to find something, anything, to take posters minds away from the issue--Karl Rove is guilty and Bush is not sticking with his promise. PERIOD.


Your just desperate to find something, anything to discredit this president and his staff. So who's doing the picking here????

As far as your asine statement that Karl Rove is guilty, do you have any proof???? Has he been charged with a crime???? Has he been convicted in a court of law?????


The only thing I did is pick apart ridiculous liberal accusations that have no basis in fact.

[speaker]

Originally posted by jbinbny
I guess the facts came out and Rove is not guilty of these absurd allegations. Too bad for all you liberal kooks out on a witchhunt.

But i really shouldn't be surprised. Most libs open their big mouths before they know the facts. We've seen it over and over again. Dick Durbin comes to mind! And Hillary has practically spent her whole life opening her big mouth before thinking first.

I will tell you liberal "thinkers" that if anyone deserved to go to jail, it was Sandy Berger! The facts are clear here. He removed top secret material from the NSA without permission. Opps sorry, I think you guys want everyone to forget about that huh!

And from me:

jbibny--I love the way you pick at things to find something, anything, to take posters minds away from the issue--Karl Rove is guilty and Bush is not sticking with his promise. PERIOD.

This is what I refer to.

[speaker]

Originally posted by speaker
And from me:

jbibny--I love the way you pick at things to find something, anything, to take posters minds away from the issue--Karl Rove is guilty and Bush is not sticking with his promise. PERIOD.

This is what I refer to.

And oh yeah--Clinton's penis was surely at the bottom of this whole thing :D

[jbinbny]

Again I will say that if the accusations against Karl Rove can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, then yes, arrest him, try him and send him to prison.

But the last I heard, they couldn't prove anything.

That's why the title of this thread makes no sense.

Capice??

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by jbinbny
Again I will say that if the accusations against Karl Rove can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, then yes, arrest him, try him and send him to prison.

But the last I heard, they couldn't prove anything.

That's why the title of this thread makes no sense.

Capice??


As I started this thread, I think it's only fitting that I should respond to your comments.

1. I entitled this thread as I did because.....I really can't believe Rove isn't in jail!

I foolishly believed outting a covert CIA agent would naturally be against the law. Silly, I know. God forbid we should write a law that actually protects our agents.

I just hope the various covert associates Ms. Plame dealt with over the years work for understanding, sympathetic governments, because they surely have been outted too by now


2. There is an ongoing investigation. Rove and company have not been cleared of anything and, since no findings have been issued, you have no way of knowing that "they couldn't prove anything."

In fact, the investigation has broadened to include such charges as obstruction of justice.

I hope that clarifies things for you, or, as you say, Capice??

[biker]

Originally posted by speaker
jbibny--I love the way you pick at things to find something, anything, to take posters minds away from the issue--Karl Rove is guilty and Bush is not sticking with his promise. PERIOD.

The reporter restating Bush's original statement has skewed your perception. PERIOD