Seneca Street Business District

[buffalofamily]

Two South Buffalo politicians made similar claims last week concerning the Seneca Street Business District.

In a News (7/22/03) article about a cancelled park event, Legislator Mark J.F. Schroeder stated that a Chamber was formed in January of 2002 because "there were 64 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street." Now there are only 23, he said.

In an Everybody's Column piece written by South District Councilmember Mary Martino, a claim of 60 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street alone when she took office. She stated, There are now approximately 20 vacancies.

After reading these two claims, I wondered:

Where are the 40+ new businesses on Seneca street? I do see a couple new businesses, but Over 40 less vacancies. HMMMM

Fuzzy Math?

Buffalofamily

[buffalofamily]

BTW--In April of 2003 we went along Seneca St. from Baily Ave to City line and found about 50 empty business locations.

[Allyssa]

Buffalo family,

do you think the politicians have their "merds wixed" up?
I mean words mixed up...

It's more the other way around... maybe (big maybe) there are only 23 new businesses and not 23 vacancies left.

I travel Seneca Street everyday and don't see what Schroeder and Martino do, there are a few locations that have had "Coming Soon" signs in the windows for ages, with no impression that something is actually coming soon to that spot.

Are they counting a business that moved as a "new opened business" even if it leaves a vacancy at another address? And are they counting a lot "vacant" even though a business has moved from the place?

In my section of Seneca Street, I did see the new "boxing club" opened but it doesn't appear to be as thriving as "Uncle Young's Market".

It might be a good idea to take pictures of all the empty/boarded up storefronts, tab their addresses and have it featured in the News. Maybe we can arrange it with a news anchor, or reporter?

[buffalofamily]

Allissa,

Yes, a report and investigation of these false claims is in order. The News does what it wants, without questioning these types of claims.

MARTINO'S CLAIM:is opinion so the News could have edited it out, but chose not to.


In an Everybody's Column piece written by South District Councilmember Mary Martino, a claim of 60 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street alone when she took office. She stated, There are now approximately 20 vacancies.

SHHROEDER'S CLAIM: in an article about a Cazenovia Park event that did not get the funding and support that it did the prior 20+ past years. A totally unrelated statement about Seneca St. was placed in the article.


Legislator Mark J.F. Schroeder stated that a Chamber was formed in January of 2002 because "there were 64 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street." Now there are only 23, he said.

WHAT BS--TAKE A RIDE ALONG SENECA STREET

I WOULD BE HIDING IF I WERE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL AND SAW HOW BAD THE STREET HAS GONE IN THE PAST 2 TO 4 YEARS!!!

BF

[buffalofamily]

LOOK pics

[buffalofamily]

Seneca / Cazenovia

[WNYresident]

HOw many will there be? I see one... we have more vacant building on union in cheektowaga! ;)

[buffalofamily]

Lots more--I'm taking pictures all up and down the Seneca business district!

[buffalofamily]

No. 2

[buffalofamily]

NO. 3

[buffalofamily]

I HAVE TO RESIZE TO UNDER 50000 bytes

I'll post more in the morning.

BF

[sbGUY27]

You have to clean up the riff raff around that area before you see any new business moving onto Seneca street. The street could use a few garbage cans put out so that all the trash isn't thrown in the street. You ever notice how dirty the street looks or is that just urban decay from the current business owners not keeping up their store fronts. Who wants to shop or retain a service someone who is not willing to put in some effort to keep their business looking respectable ? I know what it looks like , I live there so you can't tell me I'm wrong. The best looking business on seneca street are the bars.And some of them look like they need to be beaten with the health inspector. Clean up the area, make it look like there is an atmosphere of prosperity and respectablity, then maybe the businesses will come back.

[sbGUY27]

Hey Bufffamily

That store (in pic 3 ) has been closed as long as the skyroom I think. I think that is a lost cause. Some one should open a business that senior citizens will enjoy or frequent. They just built those 2 senior buildings. One on the coner of Seneca and caz, The other over on abbott . Not even a mile appart.

What happened to the Pizza Hut ? Mighty Taco ?

[WNYresident]

Haven't people notice a lot of homes are not kept up in general besides businesses in a lot of areas of buffalo. I don't mean major repairs etc, I mean basic grooming? Lawns kept neat, garbage not around the yard, etc.. A lot of the basic grooming doesn't cost money it just takes a little time to keep things neat.

[TDoran]

Originally posted by WNYresident
Haven't people notice a lot of homes are not kept up in general besides businesses in a lot of areas of buffalo. I don't mean major repairs etc, I mean basic grooming? Lawns kept neat, garbage not around the yard, etc.. A lot of the basic grooming doesn't cost money it just takes a little time to keep things neat.

There's a nice street (for the most part) in North Buffalo that the houses are kept up nice.....except for about 5 houses in a row, where the idiots living there seem determined to keep trash in their front yards. One of these dimlights even had the nerve to boot the trash in her yard, INTO THE STREET!

Lazy ass!

:mad:

[Allyssa]

(wrong time of the year) but, what about the snow shoveling? I see so many businesses and homes that don't keep up on it year after year, or some will do from their front door to the sidewalk... but not the whole sidewalk in front of the property.

TDoran, what about sending a letter to the property owners of these houses from the entire street? If the tenants can't be respectible, shouldn't the owner? Just a thought.

[Allyssa]

sbGuy,

This is how Pizza Hut has looked for nearly five years. Occassionally someone comes to cut the tall grass throughout the summer, but never a snow shoveling in the winter.


Mighty Taco closed about 2 years back; but another eatery (Schecks) reopened at that location.

The empty storefront in pic#3 (one of four locations below the old Skyroom) was originally the antique store, empty for about 3 1/2 years, the other three fronts are filled.

[sbGUY27]

never went to that pizza hut. I never got the chance. It seemed to have opened and closed in the same day. I was not asking what happened to the resturants as in closeures. I was more wondering why ? Could not sustain business ?
There is a push to get small business in buffalo. I say there should be a push for big business first. That way people in WNY will have a paycheck big enough to buy from the small business.

Small business = small jobs= small pay.
Big business = small jobs = bigger pay. You get what I'm saying.

We are so happy when GM gives a new engine line for adlephi.
But there aren't any new jobs coming with that. We have to get these types of business to come and reinvest in the form of building more manufacturing plants. Ford has a stamping plant in Woodlawn. Why can't there be an assembly plant next door?

Starbucks on everycorner is great but how about Saturn in Hamburg or cheektowaga.

I kown I sound a little off the subject, but not really. There has to be a chain of events before even one street can be fixed.

[Curmudgeon]

Absolutely correct.

But, unfortunatly, no major corporation will EVER consider building a manufacturing facility here. The reasons for that are:

Excessive energy costs
Absurdly high state/local tax burden
High workers comp/unenjoyment ins.
Confrontational, unionized workforce.

Every region of the country competes for hosting of industry facilities, and WNY has priced itself out of the "major corporation manufacturing facility" market...

The existing facilities remain only because the cost associated with moving or replacing the skilled labor and facilities exceeds the benefit of moving (for now).

Buffalo has a high concentration of skilled labor and work ethic. Addressing the above mentioned problems will help to solve a lot of the other problems the region has.

[sbGUY27]

Like I said a big chain of events has to happen ( have you ever seen an anchor chain ? that big of a chain !!!!)

[buffalofamily]

We'll call Allissa's pizza hut/weddy's photo #4, so here is empty store #5.

[buffalofamily]

#6

[buffalofamily]

#7

[buffalofamily]

This little storefront has been boarded up by the business next to it with new tile facade.

#8

[buffalofamily]

#9 & #10

M&M and empty store to right.

[sbGUY27]

so I think they are getting the message.
are you using a digital camera? I could help you out on that if you want to take some good pics

[buffalofamily]

Yes, a cheap digital. Have to change the quality, so they fit here. More to come. This is for the public to see the politicians false claims.

[WNYresident]

We could set up a seperate page for you guys to construct a webpage with all of the pics. Perhaps there's some investor in the the USA that wants a lot of vacant buildings!

:)

[Curmudgeon]

I know of an investor who specializes in distressed urban properties.

His name is Scott Wizig.

[buffalofamily]

Is he in jail yet?

[WNYresident]

IF not why is he still out? Has he paid the fines? or did what ever updates he was supposed to?

[Curmudgeon]

"Is he in jail yet?"

While Scott Wizig IS a scumbag, I think the way he was handled by the city was equally as scummy. The city's behavior was a message to potential investors - "if you're smart, don't purchase rental property in the city"...

[Unregistered]

Curm is right. He had a lot of properties. They were the dregs of the city and needed alot of repair. Yhe city could have kept an eye on him but not force him. If he was going to get to it when he had the capital,then so be it. The city should not have tried to force him to brighten up the east side. That is the citys and the problem of the residents over there living on public assistance not being able to afford to buy or fix their own homes.
Jefferson ave was busy early today !

[buffalofamily]

An empty dental office for years. BTW this property owner never shovels their corner walks. The city could have made a fortune by enforcing the law.

[buffalofamily]

Property #12 is a bar that has again been closed.

[buffalofamily]

OH BOY--It's empty, but maybe this one should be.

These operators came in, ran it without any care or respect for the neighbors. The smell is gone and so are the rodents this food joint and questionable operation had brought to the area.

They are looking for a handout last word in the Seneca St. area.

[buffalofamily]

In a new article found on page 3 of the Wednesday, July 30 2003 South Buffalo News about Schroeder campaigning in Buffalo and Cheektowaga, this new claim: "Since his election, there are 25 less storefronts on Seneca Street"...

WHAT IS THIS ??? FUZZY MATH !!!!

DIDN'T HE FIRST SAY 64 and now 23 vacancies? That would be 41 less vacant stores, but now he's backing down from the lies a bit.

THE COUNT WILL GO ON WITH MORE PICS OF PROOF .

BF:confused:

[buffalofamily]

Empty business #14 first was a Pay Less shoe store and became a Rent 2 Own type store which moved. It's been empty almost 2 years.

[WNYresident]

Notice how easy politicians like to enhance the truth some?

Awesome job on the pics..

[WNYresident]

So do these empty building pay taxes? If so then it means the people are losing money on the buildings. But if the cash is coming through as taxes.. where did it all go? Don't you lose your buildings if you don't pay taxes? So if these places are still vacant for a long time how do the owners keep them?

[sbGUY27]

Wasn't pic 14 a TCI cable place before payless shoes ? that is going back a while ,a long while.

Buffam. I bet you could find more than 61 if you look hard enough.

[buffalofamily]

WNYREZ,

Yes they should be paying taxes. Commercial tax is about double the rate of a similar residential property, so it's in the governments best interest to attract business that fits the neighborhood.

sbGUY27,

It may have been TCI too. I bet I won't have to look too hard. In April of 2003, we found 53+, and really were shocked to see all the decline.

BF

[Unregistered]

My point is if taxes are still being produced from these buildings where is it going? You don't see it invested back into the communities there in general.

Looks like we have too many hands in the cookie jar drawing from the tax revenue we have coming in.

It's our job now to shut the lid on the lid.

[Allyssa]

Buff fam,

I will note that of those 53 empty storefronts, not one of the property owners shoveled their snow in the winter. So many elderly citizens and children in this area and they, along with everyone has to walk in the street. These owners should not only be fined for it, they should be arrested on charges of endangering the lives of residents... because in case some of you don't know, we live near "SENECA STREET SPEEDWAY".

[Curmudgeon]

that's a great idea.

I think I'll run out and purchase some Seneca Street storefront property tomorrow! Not only can I look forward for being sued a dozen times a year for bogus slip-n-fall lawsuits, now I can get locked up as well!

I'd be insane to open up a business on Seneca Street. Why should I, when I can open up a business in the suburbs and not have a sidewalk to worry about at all? Why DOES bufflao demand that the property owner be legally resposible for the snow removal of the public pedestrian walkway that is owned by the city??

...just another reason why you have all those empty storefronts...

[Unregistered]

weel curm that si why I hae never heard of anyone being fined yet.

[Monica]

Why DOES bufflao demand that the property owner be legally resposible for the snow removal of the public pedestrian walkway that is owned by the city??

Maybe residents demand it because it's the law.... Hello where have you been?

Didn't you hear about the 4 teenagers that we struck by a car while walking in the street? the negligence of LAZY store owners cost the lives of these innocent teenagers. The kids had to walk in the street because the property was covered with snow and ice. And this isn't an accident that occured in the city in the Buffalo.... so maybe, just maybe the residents in the burbs are DEMANDING action from lazy business owners.

GET A CLUE.... THIS IS THE LAW.

SIDEWALK MAINTENANCE The sidewalk in front of any building must be maintained by the property owner. Defects may be repaired privately or by the Department of Transportation and charged to the property owner through the Department of Finance. If the repair is for an area larger than one square of the sidewalk, the owner must obtain a permit from the Department of Transportation for the repair.

SNOW and ICE REMOVAL Snow and ice must be removed from the sidewalk within four hours after snow has stopped falling or by 11:00 AM if snow has stopped falling after 9:00 PM the previous evening.

[Monica]

to unregestered,

maybe one is being fined... because this LAW isn't being enforced.

And people still take a chance with their own lives because they have to walk in the street.

[Unregistered]

Well no **** monica
What you are happy to do is to pay taxes on that stuff and then pay for repair and maintence.
Your a *******.

The city or burb should be responsible for the sidewalks for the price they are charging us to have them.

We do not own the sidewalk in front of our house or business. The city does. I pay for these things to be put in and maintained in the form of taxes the sidewalk in front of my house will go to **** before I put in a new one.

Monica the happy to give the town more money sheep. Folloow them sheep. baa baa

[Unregistered]

And what else Monica ******* this is not a law but a city ordinance. Not a law. There is a difference. Ordinances do not go through legislation and are not ruled on by a judiciary. It is not writen into our citys constitution and will not be enforced because you can't forde some one to clean up anothers mess. If it was ever taken to court I am sure you would see new city snowblowers doing your sidewalks.

[Admin]

Lets keep the name calling out of it.

[Curmudgeon]

"Maybe residents demand it because it's the law.... Hello where have you been? "

Maybe residents should demand that businesses pay TWICE as much in taxes and make that a law as well. Oops, that already is a law....

Yep, you can pass all the laws you like Monica. And then you can wake up one morning and notice that there are a bunch of empty storefronts where businesses used to be.. That's exactly what is happening right now. So stop your collective sniveling about "why do we have all these empty storefronts??". You are losing businesses because you are driving all of your small business owners out of your neighborhood with your stupid and self-serving laws.

[WNYresident]

Could it just be it actually cheaper to build in the burbs when they give thier tax incentives away?

Could it be the middle class moved to the burbs and now businesses can't survive on those streets? Why go into buffalo when you have a business right in your nieghborhood?

Could it be WNY wasn't planned properly? Ha, just about fell off my seat when i typed that one.

Could it be the politicians got so greedy that the tax burden in NYS is just too high for all areas to prosper?

Could it be the local developers don't care how thier development affects the area a long as they make thier profit? This is obvious, just read the aritcle in the Buffalo News about traffic in the burbs.

Could it be the local town board get thier campaign donations "Bribes" from the developers/Unions so they allow this bad planning?

Could it really be that NYS needs a very good political enema top down to really get NYS back on track?

Should we contact the people that started the petition in CA to remove the governor and apply that here? It's time the residents put their foot down before there's nothing left in NYS.

[Monica]

Crumudgon or whatever. you called me self-servin, i think your the 1 that is selfserving... cuz you will dis agree with everyone even if you agree. everytime someone says somethin you gotta butt in and dis agree just to be a pain... cuz you got just nothin better to do? you can honestly say that you don't like the idea of people taking the respondsibility of their property? can you say that just because YOU don';t like it... then that's how it's gotta be? Talk about selfserving... look at yourself first before you can past judgement on someone else's opinion. people taking care of snow removal isn't selfserving it's a more a means of public safety. but, i doubt you can't care any bit about people cuz oooh, the control boards comin in and taking everything over.

[Allyssa]

So stop your collective sniveling about "why do we have all these empty storefronts??".

Who's sniveling? I heard no one sniveling about the empty buildings on seneca street. I think you're misunderstanding the difference between griping and sniveling. We're taking a stand against something that's continues to happen in our neighborhood, and not "boo hoo, what'll we do?"

I think this tread was started to complain about all of the empty storefronts, and it was set up to inform the people as to what's going on here, in this area.

BTW, Monica I'm with you on the snow removal law... this should be enforced.

[Curmudgeon]

oh my... where do I begin?

"you can honestly say that you don't like the idea of people taking the respondsibility of their property?"
You do not own the sidewalk any more than you own the street. The city has passed a law holding you responsible for the maintainence of public property. From your own post:

<<< SIDEWALK MAINTENANCE The sidewalk in front of any building must be maintained by the property owner. Defects may be repaired privately or by the Department of Transportation and charged to the property owner through the Department of Finance. If the repair is for an area larger than one square of the sidewalk, the owner must obtain a permit from the Department of Transportation for the repair >>>

Not only do you have to repair it, you must pay a fee for a permit to repair the public property you do not own. Wow. Why don't you come to my house and fix my driveway? You can even pay me to inspect it to see if it is to my liking.

"look at yourself first before you can past judgement on someone else's opinion. "
is that like "I know you are but what am I?"...

"everytime someone says somethin you gotta butt in and dis agree just to be a pain... cuz you got just nothin better to do? "
I have a compulsion to expose people who are full of BS.

". people taking care of snow removal isn't selfserving it's a more a means of public safety. "
OK. go round up the garbage and fix the sewer system while you're at it...

"but, i doubt you can't care any bit about people cuz oooh, the control boards comin in and taking everything over."
Yep, and they will fix this mess called buffalo. Buffalo is one of many cities in the US. Why is it so messed up? Because of people like you. Thank god the control board is going to take the steering wheel of the bus and get us back on the road to sanity.

One other thing: your command of the english language has deteriorated substantially from your first post to your most recent. I think this is the first time I've ever heard anyone SLURRING their words in text! Have you been drinking? Hey, have one for me! I have to be to work in the morning so I can pay for stuff like libraries and busses that I don't use.

"cuz you will dis agree with everyone even if you agree. "
Bartender, check please... and call her a cab...

"Monica, you're a cab..."

;)

[sbGUY27]

Like unregistered said it is not a law it is an ordinance. Any mayor can decrie an ordinance, like the one in the village of hamburg and the clear trash bags. ( Can't tell you why a court upheld that one , probably something in it for them from the recycling co.)

I say if monica wants the side walks shoveled then let her. she's not hurting anyone. Wait you won't see her doing $*&@.

[buffalofamily]

Hey Folks,

THE TOPIC IS ABOUT RECENT CLAIMS--LET'S REFRESH !

In a News (7/22/03) article about a cancelled park event, Legislator Mark J.F. Schroeder stated that a Chamber was formed in January of 2002 because "there were 64 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street." Now there are only 23, he said.

In an Everybody's Column piece written by South District Councilmember Mary Martino, a claim of 60 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street alone when she took office. She stated, There are now approximately 20 vacancies.

NOW HERE IS WHERE I CONTINUE THE PICTURE PORTION OF OUR FINDINGS.

#15

[buffalofamily]

Last was a coffee shop--closed about 3 years.

[buffalofamily]

Pizza shack closed for years and years.

#17

[buffalofamily]

Heidie tux--closed for about 5 or more years--now a fire has put it out of it's misery.

[buffalofamily]

18

[buffalofamily]

They also had another business for travel and limo. Closed for many years and also fire damaged.

#19

[buffalofamily]

Yes, a frog farm! Don't know what they did here, but it's right next to the hydroponics store that thrives next to it.

#20

Kermit the Frog reporting!

[buffalofamily]

No. 21 is the famous former banquet hall "the SKYROOM" also became "Rooftops- Skyroom"/ A rock & roll bar (Bon Jovi, Metallica, Joan Jett, INXS, Goo Goo Dolls and many other famous players have been performers here. Later became a C&W Bar when line dancin' was the color of the year.

The building was originally a Shea's theater The "SENECA SHOW" as some called it.

[sbGUY27]

Hey Buf fam. Is anything going on with the old Gold Circle, Hills, Ames store ? Is that ecerts still there. Haven't had a reason to go there in a while. I hear that Abbott pizza bought Tony's steakout.
Didn't that fail once before ?

[Curmudgeon]

OK. kudos for the legwork on collecting images. One thing Curmudgeon has great respect for is facts. Even greater respect for someone who is willing to put out some effort to get the facts.

Behind every vacant storefront is a story. It probably is the same story, with variations. Some guy comes into a little money or saves it up over the years, hoping to be his own boss and start up a business. He gets his chance and then finds out just how hard it really is to do business in buffalo. He gets taxed to death, sued for stupid s**t that he has little control over, robbed, shoplifted, and pilfered from, and finally one day he calls it quits. If he's smart, he gets out early when he sees the score. If he's dumb, he waits until bankruptcy. Perhaps he got one of those Small Business Administration loans. Those guys will take your house, cars, children etc. to get their money back. And then he's ruined.

Yep, each storefront a story...
BuffaloFamily,
If you really have the energy, pick one of those storefronts and find out what happened to the people associated with that property. You can follow the chain of title thru property records. You can find out DBA information by using the address. Who were those store owners? what happened to them and their families? what caused them to go belly up? This is the true cause of your vacant storefronts. Politicians don't create jobs or businesses, people do. All politicians do is set the rules of the game... And right now, the rules are resulting in a whole lot of empty storefronts, as your trusty digital camera can tell you. ;)

[WNYresident]

Curm has a point.

In todays business enviroment there's a lot of competition in general. THe rules that the local goverments puts on us acutally makes it harder to compete against the onslaught of the BOX retail stores the developers are bringing into the area.

You can't expect a small TV shop to survive on seneca street when you have a circut city, best buys, etc buying in volume the same products the small guy are selling.

I'm all for free trade but the taxes in general placed on us to support thier asses (politicans/union cronies) are far exceeding what we can afford to stay competative.

So it's us or them and i like us much much more than them. :)

[buffalofamily]

#22

[buffalofamily]

#23

[buffalofamily]

#24

[buffalofamily]

#25

[buffalofamily]

#26

[sbGUY27]

Pic # 23 was owned by one of the Celino brothers. You know the one you see him chasing ambulances. Why is that out of business? I'm sure with the connections he has there sould have been an empire zone for that lot. Just like the one his brothers law firm stands on.

[Jack]

This week the Buffalo news published an article from a "wanna be politician, Kelley, turned Schroeder supporter", about the South Buffalo Business Association "ruined the Seneca Street Business district . This sounds like a election year job seeking individual. The South Buffalo Business Association has helped the Businesses and residents of the community for as long as I can remember. How can this organization be responsiable for the demise of Seneca Street ?????

[sbGUY27]

There are 3 celinos. A laywer, A printer , and a plumber/landlord.
I used to rent from the plumber when I lived on geary street off seneca. I did not want to use the stove and fridge that came with the place and he said I had to move the appliances myself and to drop them off at his brothers shop down the street. Just a little story. But still with pull like his brother has, getting his own little empire zone under his law firm, why was there not one there?

[buffalofamily]

Jack, You are correct. The South Buffalo Business Association has been promoting business for generations. It's the group of politicians we have now that could have helped, but didn't.

sbGuy, The print shop moved. Trying to find out where they went.

BF

[Unregistered]

You know what that sign is actually from the owners before the celinos were there. That is from May printing. They sold that to someone else. That co. is now located on elm and swann.

My wifes grandfather and his brothers used to own that. that was way before I knew them, though. Next time I see him I will ask who bought them out.

At least I think that the May co used to be at that location. Like I said I will ask to fingd out the story.

[WNYresident]

Is there an acutal core group that is heading up the library issue in South Buffalo ?

[buffalofamily]

Yes, it's the "Save Our Libraries" group.

[buffalofamily]

Hey Folks,

More pics coming soon!

[buffalofamily]

HERE WE GO

[buffalofamily]

EMPTY BUSINESS # 27

[buffalofamily]

Empty business # 28

[buffalofamily]

# 29

[buffalofamily]

#30 empty bar

[buffalofamily]

#31 and counting

[WNYresident]

We need to know the stretch of area these buildings are. Is this within a few blocks of each other? or spread out through sbuffalo?

[Curmudgeon]

hey, whatever happened to Monica the drunk? She was downright funny...

[sbGUY27]

Most of these are with in a 1 or 2 mile stretch of SB.

[Allyssa]

WNYresident,

The stretch of the Seneca Street business district runs from about Bailey Avenue to the West Seneca City Line. But primarily from Stevenson to just after Cazenovia is where these abandoned properties can be located. Some of the pics Buff Fam has posted are set right next to each other. Like images 27 and 29, they are two storefronts sharing the same building and take up almost an entire city block.

[Allyssa]

Additional note,

These images from Buff Fam are from just ONE street, and that is Seneca.

If Buff Fam expands to cover all of south Buffalo, the amount of empty buildings would sky rocket to well over a hundred in no time.

[buffalofamily]

The seneca Street business area runs along Seneca St. from Bailey Ave. to City Line. It is a 1.8 mile strip. It has too many empty properties for a business district that is under 2 miles long.

bf

[buffalofamily]

EMPTY No. 32

[buffalofamily]

#33

Yep the Southside Bowling Alley out of Biz.

[buffalofamily]

2 more!!

[buffalofamily]

#36 A SORE TOPIC FOR ANOTHER DAY

Now a commercial zoned property. Ask the elected officials what this once was!

[buffalofamily]

No. 37 We all scream for...

[buffalofamily]

#38

[buffalofamily]

Another 2 empties just a block before city line

[buffalofamily]

Two South Buffalo politicians made similar claims last week concerning the Seneca Street Business District.

In a News (7/22/03) article about a cancelled park event, Legislator Mark J.F. Schroeder stated that a Chamber was formed in January of 2002 because "there were 64 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street." Now there are only 23, he said.

In an Everybody's Column piece written by South District Councilmember Mary Martino, a claim of 60 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street alone when she took office. She stated, There are now approximately 20 vacancies.

After reading these two claims, I wondered:

Where are the 40+ new businesses on Seneca street? I do see a couple new businesses, but Over 40 less vacancies. HMMMM

Fuzzy Math?

[Allyssa]

Buff Fam,

You've already doubled Mary Martino's claims by showing 40 abandoned building images here!!!

Great job!

[Allyssa]

Manny's is closed too.

[buffalofamily]

More pics to come...at least 7 to 10 more I have to take.

BF

[WNYresident]

Dont forget there's a library board meeting on the 21st of August. 4 pm at the Erie County Library.

[buffalofamily]

MORE Pictures of the empty businesses along Seneca St. will be posted here soon. Final count about 50, so the 2 politicians should stop their lies.

[Unregistered]

"Martino says she has successes to point to. Seneca Street is bouncing back, with storefront vacancies declining from more than 60 to around 20 in four years, she said. "

this quote was in the Buffalo News this morning. Who is she kidding? Has anyone told her about this thread in this site? you got pictures to prove her wrong! The "facades" Mary mentioned are simple cover-ups to make things... (or perhaps just herself) look good.

[Unregistered]

I'm from West Seneca now but used to drive Seneca Street all the time to work. Since my change in locations I haven't been back that way in quite sometime. I can't believe how bad things look in my old neighborhood. wow, have I been away that long? Seneca St. looks like a ghost town.

Imo, the residents in South Buffalo have to vote that Martino person out. From the last I remember, there weren't that many abandoned building when Bonnie Lockwood was councilperson. What did Martino do with all of her time as current councilmember?

I'm almost afraid to know how bad Abbott Rd. looks.

Thank you.

[dtwarren]

A friend of mine refers to Seneca St. as the Boulevard of Broken Dreams! It is really sad.

[Allyssa]

dtwarren,
That is so true!!! and the pics from Buff fam prove it.

Unregistered,
You are right, things weren't like this when Bonnie was in the driver's seat.

[Allyssa]

BTW- I had a bit of internet trouble, looks like I have quite a lot of reading to catch up on here, but ... I am back online now. :D

thanks admin for letting me reregister ;)

Allyssa

[Anonymous1Music]

whom are fortunate enough to receive (new)
trees on their street, bother to maintain them?
On some streets the lazy asses do not bother
to remove the wire/rubber girding (that city
workers use to secure the treeling in the
earth the first few years), even after 2 or 3
years! Of course, this winds up strangling the
poor tree. And these same ignorant fools seem
to think it is the city's job to come and WATER
their tree! Of course, this will result in the tree
planting being a waste ot taxpayer dollars.
Moreover, the street, in time, will be completely
treeless!!! I have seen at least one (now) lovely
shaded street in North Buffalo, that will be as
devoid of vegetation as Genesee in about a
decade or so.

[Anonymous1music]

I sincerely hope that Martino person DOES get the
boot. She is nothing but a Rosemarie LoTempio
wanna-be, Pinocchio nose and all. Why did the
residents of South Buffalo elect her, anyway?!?

[Allyssa]

I was a Martino supporter and she did many things for the community in the beginning... that is until Mark Schroeder (county legistator, 2nd district) scooped her under his wing. For the past few years she has done nothing but follow in his footsteps and make false claims within her district.

But the real "nail in the coffin" was when she decided to take a stand that supports shutting down sufficient & adiquate libraries in the South District.

Giambra's pet-project of library consolidation that cost millions of dollars in the process, and rumor has it she got the democratic endorsement in exchange for supporting the library "two for one" proposal.

[buffalofamily]

Hey Folks,

Don't forget that Martino promised in 2000 that she would find the funds to save the beautiful libraries in two South Buffalo neighborhoods.

Another Broken Campaign Promise by Mary Martino.

More Pics of the over 50 empty businesses on Seneca coming soon!

BF

[buffalofamily]

Finally,

On Ch. 2 News report said the BECPL stated that the Cazenovia and Dudley cost about $500,000 a year to run. They didn't break down the stats specifically, nor did they state what a new consolidated location would cost to operate.

Sounds like more FUZZY MATH

BF

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by dtwarren
A friend of mine refers to Seneca St. as the Boulevard of Broken Dreams! It is really sad.

This is so true.......Pizza Hut land....contaminated! Martino got Mighty Taco out of their lease so they could build there.......Now she said she has made a deal with the State DEC, another Hickory Woods???? Wake up South Buffalo!!!!!:mad: :mad:

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
Finally,

On Ch. 2 News report said the BECPL stated that the Cazenovia and Dudley cost about $500,000 a year to run. They didn't break down the stats specifically, nor did they state what a new consolidated location would cost to operate.

Sounds like more FUZZY MATH

BF

It's fuzzy because you have a hard time focusing! The group that wants to see both stay open reports that the county told them 435,000 a year Ch 2 reports 500,000..... I say 472,000 a year.... Split hairs on anything over the 400,000......what's 35,000? I'll tell you what it is.....More than 90% of what people make in South Buffalo, and that ain't fuzzy math! Max 200,000 a year to operate one......Why are people so afraid of change? Here's the chance to have something new and up to date. I'm sure we keep our cars for 50 years, why buy a new one even if it's still running, the parts are harder to find and it's more expensive to get it worked on........We lose nothing, we gain a future with more space....... Take a trip to the West Seneca Library.....now those people know how to utilize space! Get real folks....You to Jimmy! I have never seen anybody takethe bus to the library????

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by Curmudgeon
OK. All politicians do is set the rules of the game... And right now, the rules are resulting in a whole lot of empty storefronts, as your trusty digital camera can tell you. ;)

I enjoyed reading your story behind the story....Not sure I buy it all but I will tell you that the ending to your story is sooooo correct......Time to change the players? Know anybody with the hangy down things to take on this mess? Not Jimmy(don't tell me it's four years) Griffin, he's planning on packing it in at the 2 year mark.......hardly enough time to hit all the dollar stores let alone beg for one more rent-a-loanshark store...Maybe we can move that adult video store in with Mighty Taco on contaminated land.......

[Allyssa]

Nike,
you said:Take a trip to the West Seneca Library.....now those people know how to utilize space! Truth is nearly 25% of the Caz location is "wasted" space, who's at fault for that? not the people looking to save these two locations.

Here's the chance to have something new and up to date. At what cost though?

We lose nothing, we gain a future with more space Actually, the square feet between the two locations is almost double to the proposed 12,000 sq. ft. size, I believe that counts for losing something. In fact, everything that both branches have will be cut in half by the merging of the two including books, shelf space, computers, and only gain one extra hour of service a week. But they are planning no cuts to the staff.

Back to the Seneca Street Business topic...
setting the library issue aside, I do however, agree with your ideas with what's in your thread about new business on Seneca Street.

[buffalofamily]

ORIGINAL TOPIC
Two South Buffalo politicians made similar claims last week concerning the Seneca Street Business District.

In a News (7/22/03) article about a cancelled park event, Legislator Mark J.F. Schroeder stated that a Chamber was formed in January of 2002 because "there were 64 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street." Now there are only 23, he said.

In an Everybody's Column piece written by South District Councilmember Mary Martino, a claim of 60 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street alone when she took office. She stated, There are now approximately 20 vacancies.

After reading these two claims, I wondered:

Where are the 40+ new businesses on Seneca street? I do see a couple new businesses, but Over 40 less vacancies. HMMMM

FOLLOW UP

A few more storefronts closed up at the end of 2003. The councilmamber who made the false claims was not re-elected to office. The Legeslator changed his claims, but the numbers are WAY off the reality scale.

SHAME SHAME

UPDATED REPORT COMING SOON

BF

[buffalofamily]

The condition of Seneca Street seems to be about the same. One business comes in, while another goes out.

The Empire Zone has failed this business strip.

The mayors "Suddenly Seneca" program has failed this business strip.

Residents are sick of seeing "rent to ripoff' stores in their community.

It is a bit safer with the Police on the beat lately. We need more.

Cerfew laws need to be enforced.

TP&BF

[buffalofamily]

6 months have passed since the latest promise of work on Seneca Street. Congressman Quinn promised 2 million dollars + we heard claims frim state and county officials too. Only Jimmy Griffin the councilman in South Buffalo kept his end of the promise.

A survey of the business district is due soon. Early reports show about the same amount of vacant stores. Some businesses have spruced up their properties, and that's a plus.

BF

[Curmudgeon]

I've got a great idea!

Instead of running around screaming at politicians in hopes of extracting money from them, why don't you do the following:

Open YOUR OWN business on the Seneca Street strip...

What?

You heard me. Go get a loan (if you don't have the money), rent a storefront, and help to solve the problem YOURSELF.

[Night Owl]

I think what BuffaloFamily is saying is that Mr. Quinn scheduled a press conference in the South Buffalo area with claims of money coming to help improve the look of Seneca Street... not the businesses, but the street it self. I beleive you are misunderstanding his message as something the residents are requesting from our tax dollars, you are mistaked, a political representitive was one who came into a part of the city with this agenda. What has Buffalofamily frustrated is that while the political officials hold the purse strings of the redevelopment project, nothing is set in stone as far as proving the money is available. The same project that was brought to the community by elected representitives.

The BERC, brought in by the same politicians is heading up a different form to help to improve the businesses, but the real proposal for the redevelpoment of Seneca Street is just for road repairs, as I have mentioned time and time again in this thread.

I have an idea for you, write a letter to Mr. Quinn, Mr. Schroeder, and Mr. Higgins and tell they you don't like their idea to improve Seneca Street... because to be 100% factual- it was their idea!

[jzman3232]

One of the problems around Seneca St. is the amount of homes that are doubles that are rented. The homes are older and not taken care of,most are owned by landlords who don't live in them themselves. So you tend to attract lower income families whojust can't afford to support a wide range of businesses on Seneca St. Plus for some developers it is a tax advantage to have some of you properties sitting vacant. Find out how many properties are owned by the same company or group of companies like Benderson.

[Curmudgeon]

Plus for some developers it is a tax advantage to have some of you properties sitting vacant.

do you really think it more profitable for a developer to have a vacant property than a property with rent-paying tenants?

Ask benderson - they'll tell you full occupancy is what they would prefer.

I think you're quoting disinformation...

[jzman3232]

When you have so much property for the quality of the buildings on Seneca St. the tax credit can be an advantage instead of rehabing those properties for questionable rents they take the tax lose which is less then the outlay of the costs of retrofitting those buildings. Which in that neigborhood you would be taking a great risk for such little rent returns.

[Curmudgeon]

Which in that neigborhood you would be taking a great risk for such little rent returns.

These companies are not purchasing and holding property for the sole purpose of claiming a loss.

Probably what is occuring is that the owner can't sell the property to anyone.

A friend of mine had a business that burned down and was a total loss. He still owned the empty lot in the city. Not only could he not sell it, he couldn't even give it to anyone. He asked the other business owners adjecent to the property if they wanted it and they said no.

He now owned property whose market value was less then zero dollars.

If property owners are sitting on property without refurbising it in the hopes of renting it, I suggest that they are not happy about it.

Please stop blaming urban blight on property owners who are taking ill-gotten tax-breaks on vacant property. There ain' t no conspiracy here.

You want to fill these properties up with businesses? Simple. Ensure that the conditions are right for a business community to actually thrive. Examine your taxation and regulations and their effect on small business.

If you have a healthy business climate, entrepenures will do whatever it takes to ensure they have a place in that climate.

[therising]

Originally posted by jzman3232
When you have so much property for the quality of the buildings on Seneca St. the tax credit can be an advantage instead of rehabing those properties for questionable rents they take the tax lose which is less then the outlay of the costs of retrofitting those buildings. Which in that neigborhood you would be taking a great risk for such little rent returns.

What you are describing is a legitimate business model, not some sort of tax credit scheme.

If YOU owned a building that needed substantial renovation, but could only get minimal rents, what would YOU do?
Would you be Mr/Mrs Good Corporate Citizen, and say "heck, I'll put the money into it, even though I'll never get it back", or would you just let it sit there until the right time comes.?

[Curmudgeon]

I often laugh whenever people volunteer others to be "good corporate citizens"...

At no point should we expect any business venture to knowingly plow good money after bad, without any expectation of return. Keep in mind that businesses that are getting a "tax benefit" from claiming a losss aren't really making money on the deal, just minimizing their losses... I repeat, LOSSES.

As for your question, I would let the building sit vacant if it was the decision that caused the least amount of loss to my enterprise. Perferably, I'd have not purchased the property in the first place.

You would too.

I'm assuming you're not a giant corporation. Neither am I. Why don't you start small and buy a few of those east-side houses for pennies at a tax auction, pour tens of thousands into them fixing them up, and proceed to lose all of that money renting them for nothing, watching them being destroyed...

You'll be a broke sucker, but we'll call you a "great corporate citizen"! Then you can claim your losses on your taxes and tell us how much you made.

It's not a business model. It's just another group of people (property owners) who pay the price for bad policies and a lousy business environment.

[Night Owl]

So Curmudgeon, why is it that you aren't in some type of political office? With your knowledge... you'd be just what we need to turn a few things around here.

[yokes]

I can't speak for Curm here but here is my take as a person who has considered running for office on those exact principles.

We live in an area where you need to "cave" or Pander to a voting population that relies on the state local etc for a large part of their livelyhood. To run on changing that sytem will only lead to a lost election and wasted time effort and money.

It stinks but itsa reality and worse its a self fufilling prophecy. you cant get elected to change anything, and things need to be changed. kinda a no win situation

[buffalofamily]

Risin' Sez:

If YOU owned a building that needed substantial renovation, but could only get minimal rents, what would YOU do? I don't know what I would do besides try to some improvements, or even run a business myself.

I do know what is hapening on Seneca St. to buildings that need "substantial renovation". They are being auctioned off at a rapid rate. The slumlord owners are bailing out. Thank an aggresive inspecions campaign up and down Seneca St. Finally the city is doing it's part to make sure buildings are up to code. The days of absent owner buildings may be ending, but still many properties are empty.

One key element in the neighborhood that is lacking is jobs. More jobs are needed IN the neighborhood. Only small business can generate these needed jobs without diging into the government pockets "big time", like the proposed "Bsss Pro" deal. Lets help the existing smaller businesses.

BF

[Curmudgeon]

We live in an area where you need to "cave" or Pander to a voting population that relies on the state local etc for a large part of their livelyhood. To run on changing that sytem will only lead to a lost election and wasted time effort and money.

Yes, I've said it myself - we have a population that is largely addicted to government, be it jobs or welfare payments. This "critical mass" of government dependees will vote for whoever maintains the status-quo, no matter the long-term cost.

What we see here is the flight of non-government dependees leaving the area, employers and skilled young people, which just raises the ration of dependees to non-dependees over time, exacerbating the problem.

It's VERY possible that this cycle cannot be broken, and WNY will turn into a leper colony of government employees and entitlement recipients, with just about all productive private sector people leaving. A sort of mini-socialist Stalinist republic cancer in the middle of America. That sure seems the way things are evolving.

WNY can try the iron-curtian strategy of not allowing people to leave. There is already talk of demanding that SUNY college scholarship recipients work in NY for 5 years after graduation, and if not they have to pay the money back.

Nothing like MORE regulation to fix the problems caused by previous regulation....

[WNYresident]

Yes, I've said it myself - we have a population that is largely addicted to government, be it jobs or welfare payments. This "critical mass" of government dependees will vote for whoever maintains the status-quo, no matter the long-term cost.

THink about it this way.

10,000 county employees decided they need in office the officials who give them raises and bene's every year. If there immediate family votes to keep them in office you can have LOTS of votes to keep the status quo.

10,000 employees have 8 family members besides themselves vote. Aunt alice, uncle ben, brother-in-law larry ( including wife/husband ) etc

Oh if an opening comes up, i'll even recommend you for the position. Might as well promise them something if they vote your way.

10,000 X 8 family members you have 80,000 possible votes.

[buffalofamily]

And now back to Seneca Street. It's been about a year since the BIG $2,ooo,ooo.oo promise.

Politicians should not be allowed to make even False promises about our tax money.

BF

[moadib]

BRING BACK THE LARKIN ADMINISTRATION BUILDING

ITS THE LAST WRIGHT BUILDING LEFT MISSING FROM BUFFALO

WHAT SHOULD GO THERE?

THE BNE/BNP.....THE BUFFALO NIAGARA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

LET OUR CHAMBER OF COMMERCE GREET OUR BUSINESS VISITORS IN A WORLD FAMOUS BUILDING THAT WOULD IMMEDIATELY AWE ANYONE WHO ENTERED.

[buffalofamily]

THE BNE/BNP.....THE BUFFALO NIAGARA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

I don't think they call it the Chamber of Commerce anymore.

South Buffalo has a "Chamber of Commerce" that serves the 2nd. legislative district of the county including the Seneca Street business strip.

BF

[buffalofamily]

Just to refresh the discussion on Seneca St. I gave this thread a bump. Review and refresh memories.

BF

[buffalofamily]

Refresh memories:

In a News (7/22/03) article about a cancelled park event, Legislator Mark J.F. Schroeder stated that a Chamber was formed in January of 2002 because "there were 64 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street." Now there are only 23, he said.

In an Everybody's Column piece written by South District Councilmember Mary Martino, a claim of 60 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street alone when she took office. She stated, There are now approximately 20 vacancies.

After reading these two claims, I wondered:

Where are the 40+ new businesses on Seneca street? I do see a couple new businesses, but Over 40 less vacancies. HMMMM


Here we are in 2005 and empty storefronts are found (close to 50+) without counting those that were torn down due to fires or for parking.

HMMMM
BF

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
Refresh memories:
Here we are in 2005 and empty storefronts are found (close to 50+) without counting those that were torn down due to fires or for parking.
HMMMM
BF

Now, what should be the lesson here? We now have two "appointed" people serving in those offices.....Do you keep them or get someone else in there? You either have someone who keeps lucrative labor contracts or you have someone who brings the lucrative contract holders back to Buffalo......If you think there is enough money off Seneca St to make a business flourish, your living in a dream world! Your voting record should be your guiding light to the plight of Seneca St. Support is what makes the world go round! I applaud those lucrative contract holders who still live in Buffalo...by the way!

[buffalofamily]

ballsSEZ:
......If you think there is enough money off Seneca St to make a business flourish, your living in a dream world! Their is tons of money in the Seneca Street area...It is a very working class neighborhood. Going door to door it's tough to find people home in the day hours, because they are all off to work. Sadly, we all have to shop in the burbs for items like shoes, sneakers, clothing, housewares, paint, hardware items, school supplies, gifts...

Time for some NEW people to get elected in South Buffalo, not the "party" picks.

BF

[WNYresident]

Why hasn't a walmart opening in the heart of buffalo along a bus route?

[leets]

Originally posted by WNYresident
Why hasn't a walmart opening in the heart of buffalo along a bus route?

Walmart almost never builds inside cities. Chicago will be getting its first Walmart in the next year or so.

You would think that they would see the inner city as prime territory for their product. Here is hoping Buffalo NEVER gets a Walmart.

[leets]

Originally posted by moadib
BRING BACK THE LARKIN ADMINISTRATION BUILDING

ITS THE LAST WRIGHT BUILDING LEFT MISSING FROM BUFFALO

WHAT SHOULD GO THERE?

THE BNE/BNP.....THE BUFFALO NIAGARA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

LET OUR CHAMBER OF COMMERCE GREET OUR BUSINESS VISITORS IN A WORLD FAMOUS BUILDING THAT WOULD IMMEDIATELY AWE ANYONE WHO ENTERED.

Rebuilding the Larkin may not be as far fetched as it seems. There may be people out there planning to do just that.

[buffalofamily]

LeetsSEZ:
Here is hoping Buffalo NEVER gets a Walmart.YEP! We need businesses that generate useful GOOD PAYING jobs, not Walmarts.

WNYresASKS:
Why hasn't a walmart opening in the heart of buffalo along a bus route? They probably would want Govt. money like Bass Pro. Kmart stiffed on tons of Government money at 998 Broadway...Another Franczak success story on the east side of Buffalo.

Help the Mom and Pops and the City will come back. Keep helping the corporations and we are doomed.

BF

[Curmudgeon]

Help the Mom and Pops and the City will come back. Keep helping the corporations and we are doomed

Silly.

Why aren't we complaining about Tops and Wegmans? The gorcery stores put out the Mom and Pop grocers 2 generations ago.

Anybody want to shut down the grocery stores, and pay twice as much for meats and foods of questionable origin? No? Isn't it EXACTLY the same thing?

What is a Tops (or w Walmart)? It's a store that is VERY GOOD at getting products from manufactures to consumers as efficiently as possible.


I've got news for you: The Mom and Pop stores are NEVER coming back. Nobody wants to pay twice as much for commodities such as toilet paper.

And, if you try to obstruct the presence of these stores through legislation, you'll pay dearly when it accelerates the migration of people moving away from the city.


Please, to to ECC and take Economics 101. We'll even pay your tuition.....

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
Help the Mom and Pops and the City will come back. Keep helping the corporations and we are doomed.
BF

Curm couldn't have said it better! It's a great thought Fam. but those were the days my friend.......It all started with McDonalds and it hasn't stopped. The trick is to embrace these "large" stores and help them help the community. I think if you look at what WalMart gives to it's neighbors in terms of grants etc.....you'll find they are not as bad as you think. Who know's they may even help keep the Dudley or Caz branch open....you'd be happy with that wouldn't you? SB needs an influx of money! Not State of Federal dollars, but Cop, Fire Fighter and Teacher money. It's all in the math.......Economics 101 seems like the right choice fam! How about a council that has the best interest of the city instead of the Democratic party and Union endorsements?

[WNYresident]

I do think it's making more people poorer while making a few people richer.. Seems to be boning the middle class becasue we are the ones support the government labor contracts over all.

[WestCoastPerspective]

No one can say a Walmart would decimate our current business districts, there's none left (well, Elmwood and Hertel being the exception). Business First reported a couple weeks ago that Walmart was looking in the Delaware/Hertel area for a location.

[buffalofamily]

CrumSEZ:
Why aren't we complaining about Tops and Wegmans? UMM..We have no Tops or Wegmans on Seneca St.

I'm talking about MOM & POP individual stores like on Hertel or Elmwood. Good service at a good price without taking the worker out of the picture when it comes to making a living.

BF

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
Good service at a good price without taking the worker out of the picture when it comes to making a living.
BF

We now must return to the post I sent last week. SB needs an influx of money. SB has a hard time electing anybody who accomplishes anything while in office let alone support a store. I think you need to look at those "good" prices just a little harder the next time you take a family trip to Elmwood Ave. The NB area is made up of a good number of Dr's and thiefs (lawyers) who spend "our" money at those expensive stores and resturaunts. Now because there is money, they can have those nice things which are priced a little higher than average to keep the riff raft out! Vision and "community" involvement make those area's thrive. Abbott Road could house some nice shops and resturaunts but they don't. Why? The other nice thing about the area is that Buff. State contributes a lot of student money as well. People get paid better at Tops than they do at those stores on Elmwood and Hertle!

[Curmudgeon]

I think you need to look at those "good" prices just a little harder the next time you take a family trip to Elmwood Ave.

No kidding. Good prices? BF, go look up "economy of scale" and tell us what the definition is.

BF, I have bad news for you - you live in a dreamworld that you have created out of what you would like the world to be, and not what it really is. You're not alone in that regard. Others like you have felt the same way. Lenin and Mao come to mind. Peron too.

You are a reflexive "command economy" type. How many examples of failed command economies you need before you realize that it just doesn't work?


The worst part is you say things (like the above) that are completely untrue. Do you really believe them or are you cynical enough to blatantly lie to us to acheive your objective?

[WNYresident]

ONce and for all to prove people wrong they should just open up 10 little stores...

a grocery store
a show shop
a hard ware store
a clothing store.. etc

Little mom and pops which I dont think would survive.

People would still go to the mall...

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by Curmudgeon
No kidding. Good prices? BF, go look up "economy of scale" and tell us what the definition is.

BF, I have bad news for you - you live in a dreamworld that you have created out of what you would like the world to be, and not what it really is. You're not alone in that regard. Others like you have felt the same way. Lenin and Mao come to mind. Peron too.

You are a reflexive "command economy" type. How many examples of failed command economies you need before you realize that it just doesn't work?


The worst part is you say things (like the above) that are completely untrue. Do you really believe them or are you cynical enough to blatantly lie to us to acheive your objective?

-Hahaha
Awesome Post

[steven]

Funny how when people mention successful business districts they only mention Hertal and Elmwood. As if those are the only parts of the city with any life. Is this because the faces walking up and down the street in these areas are primarily Caucasian?

Everyday Grant St is packed with a mixed crowd going to guercios (ok I cant spell it), which had to expand this yr to accommodate their growing customer base, Diblles, and all the meat markets as well as Lifestyles street gear (so successful it had to open another shop and now runs two stores on grant one for men and another for women) Parts of Jefferson are equally as busy. There is much more to Buffalo than just Elmwood Hertal and Chippewa.

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by steven
Funny how when people mention successful business districts they only mention Hertal and Elmwood. As if those are the only parts of the city with any life. Is this because the faces walking up and down the street in these areas are primarily Caucasian?


Grant St. is by far sucessful! Not as successful as lets say Elmwood and Hertle! I don't think Elmwood has one "Rent A Center," Hertel may have one, Grant St has them about every 3 blocks, plus the Dollar Generals...Aldi's etc...... You can compare it to Seneca St but nothing else! There is life on Seneca St as well. They just have no where to go except to a bar or pizza shop.....income driven neighborhood!

[ReformWNY]

I would like to know where BF is with the camera, walking up and down Seneca Street taking photos of closed businesses to prove that the current count is wrong.

I dont' see em.

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
Good service at a good price without taking the worker out of the picture when it comes to making a living.
BF

I wanted to mention the bowl of soup I had at a fairly new resturaunt on Elmwood. A bowl no bigger or smaller than the one's I have in my house. $6.00.........good? Good for whom? It was good soup, but it was not bottomless.....A place on Seneca St. can hardly sell a $1.50 beer let alone a 6.00 bowl of soup.....

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by mynikeballs
I wanted to mention the bowl of soup I had at a fairly new resturaunt on Elmwood. A bowl no bigger or smaller than the one's I have in my house. $6.00.........good? Good for whom? It was good soup, but it was not bottomless.....A place on Seneca St. can hardly sell a $1.50 beer let alone a 6.00 bowl of soup.....

Brodo, by chance?
Haven't had a chance to check it out yet.

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by ReformWNY
Brodo, by chance?
Haven't had a chance to check it out yet.

Yes it was......great food......and soup :-) Bring some money....

[WestCoastPerspective]

Originally posted by ReformWNY
Brodo, by chance?
Haven't had a chance to check it out yet.

Brodo- Great soup, average panini!

[buffalofamily]

ReformWNYSEZ:
I would like to know where BF is with the camera, walking up and down Seneca Street taking photos of closed businesses to prove that the current count is wrong. WHAT'S the current count reform. Pics are up soon.

mynikeballsSEZ:
I wanted to mention the bowl of soup I had at a fairly new resturaunt on Elmwood. A bowl no bigger or smaller than the one's I have in my house. $6.00.........good? Good for whom? It was good soup, but it was not bottomless.....A place on Seneca St. can hardly sell a $1.50 beer let alone a 6.00 bowl of soup..... At least a bowl of soup can be found...I know only 1 full service place to eat on Seneca.

BF

[ReformWNY]

At least a bowl of soup can be found...I know only 1 full service place to eat on Seneca.

I'm sure that this is also, for some reason, Marc Schroeder's fault that you can't get any more soup!

[buffalofamily]

IASKED:
WHAT'S the current count reform. Pics are up soon

Ducking and dancing, just like Mark does.

AWhat's the count of empty stores and property???

BF

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by ReformWNY
I'm sure that this is also, for some reason, Marc Schroeder's fault that you can't get any more soup!

If you have any of his news letters that he sent out while he sat on the group of non-doers at the County.....look at the great things he did......if he didn't attend a Chamber of Comm. meeting the only other thing he talked about was the GED center across the street. How many press conferences did he have in front of that place? He did little else! I should add that he is a great person, I like him as a friend.....I'm sure he will do wonders for the state.....LOL

[buffalofamily]

If you have any of his news letters that he sent out while he sat on the group of non-doers at the County.....look at the great things he did......if he didn't attend a Chamber of Comm. meeting the only other thing he talked about was the GED center across the street. How many press conferences did he have in front of that place? He did little else! I should add that he is a great person, I like him as a friend.....I'm sure he will do wonders for the state.....LOL

Ho that Mark Schroeder...He's done soooo Much!

BF

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
IASKED:

Ducking and dancing, just like Mark does.

AWhat's the count of empty stores and property???

BF

Ducking and Dancing? What are you talking about. I'm going with the schroeder count.. it's your job to prove em wrong pal.. though you never can! Get out your digital camera and go walking!

[DT14209]

Buffalo Family...

Excellent work! I would encourage you to formalize your findings and have them accessible in blog format for Elmwood Village denizens and others who think that Buffalo revolves just around elmwood and the delaware district.

I've often imagined Buffalo to be like the Titanic -- elmwood biz district the deck -- and steerage class everywhere else...

I'd like to know more about City Hall's third floor...and its role in vigorous code enforcement along SS.

I never here of SS property gettting to housing court.

Let me know if you'd like a hand with the blogging....

David

fix buffalo (http://fixbuffalo.blogspot.com)

[buffalofamily]

dt14209
Excellent work! I would encourage you to formalize your findings and have them accessible in blog format for Elmwood Village denizens and others who think that Buffalo revolves just around elmwood and the delaware district.

And the chippewa area too...

They cleaned up Chippewa in a heartbeat, but forgot the rest of the city.

ReformSEZ:

I'm going with the schroeder count.. it's your job to prove em wrong pal.. though you never can! Get out your digital camera and go walking again is his count still 23... I have the pics, but have to format them down to fit this forum...stay tuned Schroeder fan...

BF

[Buffalo Betty]

What I learned in Econ 101 is that when WalMart or Rite Aid or Home Depot eliminates the competition, then they can charge whatever they wish. It's called a monopoly and it is anything but beneficial for consumers.

What is a Tops (or w Walmart)? It's a store that is VERY GOOD at getting products from manufactures to consumers as efficiently as possible.


I've got news for you: The Mom and Pop stores are NEVER coming back. Nobody wants to pay twice as much for commodities such as toilet paper.

And, if you try to obstruct the presence of these stores through legislation, you'll pay dearly when it accelerates the migration of people moving away from the city.


Please, to to ECC and take Economics 101. We'll even pay your tuition..... [/B][/QUOTE]

[steven]

Originally posted by mynikeballs
Grant St. is by far sucessful! Not as successful as lets say Elmwood and Hertle! I don't think Elmwood has one "Rent A Center," Hertel may have one, Grant St has them about every 3 blocks, plus the Dollar Generals...Aldi's etc...... You can compare it to Seneca St but nothing else! There is life on Seneca St as well. They just have no where to go except to a bar or pizza shop.....income driven neighborhood!

I undertsand your point (in a way but still disagree) about rent a center but whats wrong aldis or doller general????

[moonshine]

What I learned in Econ 101 is that when WalMart or Rite Aid or Home Depot eliminates the competition, then they can charge whatever they wish. It's called a monopoly and it is anything but beneficial for consumers.

I'm assuming they didn't take this logic a step forward and show how monopolies are not sustainable in a true free market?

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by steven
I undertsand your point (in a way but still disagree) about rent a center but whats wrong aldis or doller general????

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Aldi's or Dollar Stores in general. They spring up in areas that are a bit money starved? I don't take anything away from those who have worked hard to build a great business on Seneca or Grant, but on a whole, they lack the economic jolt needed to revitalize the area! When the average income for a family of four is 15-18K.....you can't create an Elmwood strip!

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by moonshine
I'm assuming they didn't take this logic a step forward and show how monopolies are not sustainable in a true free market?

We went from Twin Fair to WalMart.....whats next.....stay tuned!

[steven]

Originally posted by mynikeballs
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Aldi's or Dollar Stores in general. They spring up in areas that are a bit money starved? I don't take anything away from those who have worked hard to build a great business on Seneca or Grant, but on a whole, they lack the economic jolt needed to revitalize the area! When the average income for a family of four is 15-18K.....you can't create an Elmwood strip!

You lost me.
:confused:
I have never seen an aldis in the hood. Dollar stores are everywhere even in the box malls.

Aldis is a supermarket chain like wegmans or tops its just german owned so its run as they are in germany. I prefer aldis to most of the supermarkets around here. They always have a restroom available to the public and they let there cashiers sit down as they do in europe.

Did I just do a commercial for aldis? LOL

[buffalofamily]

ballsSEZ:
When the average income for a family of four is 15-18K.....you can't create an Elmwood strip!

It is much higher in South Buffalo. Some make less than 15K-18K, but most make more.

andSEZ:
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Aldi's or Dollar Stores in general. They spring up in areas that are a bit money starved?
Like the aldi's next to the remodeled Wegmans across McKinley Mall...yea that money starved area.

andstated:

We went from Twin Fair to WalMart.....whats next.....stay tuned! On Seneca Street we went from Twin Fair to Gold Circle to Hills to Ames all at the plaza on Seneca St. Now it is empty.

BF

[crlachepinochet]

... or the Aldis by the corner of Maple & N. Bailey! Not to mention the Dollar Generals on Transit in Depew, East Amherst, and probably one in Lockport. All those areas are in dire straits.

[Curmudgeon]

It is much higher in South Buffalo. Some make less than 15K-18K, but most make more.

Yes. Especially all of the city workers who were hired during the Griffin Administration.

[citymouse]

Yeah. This is the Beverly Hills of Western New York thanks to Jimmy Griffin.
But if you look back, I think there may have been a high percentage of Civil Service workers In South Buffalo before Griffin ever took office.
It seems funny too that just as many people work for the State, County and Federal Goverments in this Area.
How would you explain that?
Was Griffin that Influential that he had patronage on all levels of Goverment? Years before he was ever elected.
Your remark shows just how cliche your thinking is.
It makes you look like an ass.

[buffalofamily]

I can't remember empty storefronts in South Buffalo when Jimmy was Mayor.

BF

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
I can't remember empty storefronts in South Buffalo when Jimmy was Mayor.
BF

When Jimmy was mayor there were neighborhood schools, cops, firefighters and teachers lived in the city...... then the Curtain came down. Dr Williams said the other day the key to Buffalo's rebound is a "good" school system... I think he's onto something here folks?

[crlachepinochet]

Originally posted by mynikeballs
Dr Williams said the other day the key to Buffalo's rebound is a "good" school system... I think he's onto something here folks?

Smart man.

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
I can't remember empty storefronts in South Buffalo when Jimmy was Mayor.

BF

hahaha

[buffalofamily]

nynikeballsSEZ:
Dr Williams said the other day the key to Buffalo's rebound is a "good" school system... I think he's onto something here folks? I don't want good schools. I would prefer EXCELLENT Schools. That would be the key to a new better Buffalo. The schools should be in the neighborhoods like Seneca St area. PS 70 still remains empty off Seneca St.

BF

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
nynikeballsSEZ: I don't want good schools. I would prefer EXCELLENT Schools. That would be the key to a new better Buffalo. The schools should be in the neighborhoods like Seneca St area. PS 70 still remains empty off Seneca St.
BF

So what are you doing about it? Please let me know, I'm kind of curious!

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by mynikeballs
So what are you doing about it? Please let me know, I'm kind of curious!


it's the only thing that shuts buffalo family up.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?>

And then... silence!

[buffalofamily]

ballsSEZ:
So what are you doing about it? Please let me know, I'm kind of curious! It's not my job to do anything about it. Only the elected officials can really do anything about it. We can all demand better schools and demand neighborhood schools, but the elected officials, school board and super. have the power to do anything.

reformSEZ:

it's the only thing that shuts buffalo family up.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?>
WRONG again...at least I care enough about the community to hold elected officials accountable.

The only silence comes from Schroeder, Higgins & co.

And then... silence!

BF

[ReformWNY]

Buffalofamily:

I like to credit myself with coining the phrase armchair politician. I came up with the term after responding to many of your endless posts that offer plenty of criticism and no resolution or suggestions. You can take pride in knowing that you are the inspiration for said phrase...

Go back to your political inactivity now. It's all OK.

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
It's not my job to do anything about it. Only the elected officials can really do anything about it.
BF

It's not your job? If you live in the City......It's your job! Elected officials....hogwash! Do you know Jack Coyles phone number? Get it, call him, ask him questions......That's the problem with 3/4 of Buffalo.....they think it's not their job. That's why all those people took our tax money out of the city.....they didn't want to fight!

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
It's not my job to do anything about it. Only the elected officials can really do anything about it. BF

Which leads me to another point. As I drive through SB....Along a particular Pkway. I see these "very large" campaign signs. Now, I don't know about you but I think it makes the neighborhood look slumish! Now, I know it's "my" job to get the City of Buffalo to change the regulations on sign size. It's our job to fix things that are not quite right, those things that hold the city back. One other thing about the mentality of SB....I was told the other day that it was an honor to have someone from SB represent us in Congress. I could care less if he/she is from Sloan.....we need someone who is going to do "something." Now, there are those that say look what he's doing for the water front????? He just had a press conference about the water front and all the money "he's" brought. The transportation bill was payback from the Bush administration for passing the energy bill! They were told to run back home for your photo ops....that's what he did!

[Night Owl]

That's the problem with 3/4 of Buffalo.....they think it's not their job.

I just wanted to say that a bigger part of the problem is the property owners who are leaving their buildings on Seneca Street unattended.

Jeff Conrad is said to be a supporter of a rental registry. That is a policy to where the property owners take responsibility of their property instead of just letting it sit; which is the way so many storefronts on Seneca Street have been.

We need to call our South District councilman to say let's get this moving.

Jeff Conrad is also said to be 'on-board' with Councilman Franczk's quality of life proposal.

Run-down and vancancies are a Quaily of Life issue in South Buffalo. We need to call our councilman to say let's get moving on this.

While councilman Conrad is in part to help with the Seneca Street project, the BERC and the CARE programs cannot be the only work. Our elected officials are in office to do things; to make changes in our neighborhoods. And I know exactly what Buffalo Family is talking about.

One person cannot do it alone, one councilman cannot do it alone, but the real problem isn't the residents who complain, it's the elected officials whom are not doing anything to make a difference.

They campaign on "leadership" and they campaign on "making a difference", and that is where accountability of the residents come in... to make sure our elected officails keep to their word.

Buffalo Family is an eye-opener to the eye-sores of Seneca Street.

Buffalo Family is not the problem; Buffalo Family is not any one of the property owners who have left their buildings abandoned like the one at Cazenovia and Seneca that hasn't shoveled the sidewalk for at least 10 years; property that's been empty for about 5 years now.

It is the job of our elected officials to take care of issues like this; it's what they get paid for.

And in case anyone is interested, Buffalo Family is doing something... he is lighting a fire under the asses of our elected officials because we all know they are reading these boards in one form or another.

Yes, I am defending Buffalo Family, but more importantly, and even if no one wants to hear it, he is right in saying our elected officails are not doing anything more than just talk.

What have you done reformwny? Did you sweep the sidewalk in front of a vacant building of an out-of-town property owner?

What about you Nike? Did you clean up garbage and litter tossed on to the steps of an abandoned storefront of an out-of-town property owner?

You can't say that Buffalo Family hasn't done anything, if anyone one of you haven't done anything as well.

Yes, I do know Buffalo Family, or at least I know him well enough to say he stands for accountability when it comes to our elected officials.

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by Night Owl
That's the problem with 3/4 of Buffalo.....they think it's not their job.


What have you done reformwny? Did you sweep the sidewalk in front of a vacant building of an out-of-town property owner?.

No, I certainly haven't.

But when my neighborhood has a cleanup, I'm there. In fact.. I've even hosted one. I go out of my way to patronize local businesses, such as the Sunset Deli on William Street, to keep them in business. In places where I can exercise whatever influence I have for the good of the community to help my fellow WNY'ers, I do so. When politicians speak I am there and in their faces. When I have a problem, I CALL to get answers and facts, not cry and whine on a message board about nothing being done, when I can call my assemblyman, etc and talk directly to their office for answers.

Buffalo Family is not lighting a fire, he is complaining over a personal vendetta against Mark Schroeder... that's what it all roots back to. No efforts, no alternative suggestions, just a big laundrylist of complaints and a chip on his shoulder over Marc Schroeder.

This area has too many people that complain without offering resolutions. We dont' need any more complianers. We need people that will step up to the plate and work on Western NY.

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by Night Owl
[BWhat about you Nike? Did you clean up garbage and litter tossed on to the steps of an abandoned storefront of an out-of-town property owner?
[/B]

Let me first say that your endorsement of Conrad (appointed) was touching and heart warming. I'm not sure if you know about the many different departments that are designed to take care of these problems? Quality of life issues.....who the hell are they kidding? Who's going to correct the problems......cops? I don't think so! I think they have enough to do, don't you? Mayors complaint line "speed dial," Jack Coyle "speed dial," Mayors office speed dial, South District council members office speed dial...parking enforcement........ etc. They have all taken calls from me. Anything I want taken care of......I call! The quickest way to get things fixed....call the department that's responsible for it! I know what I do....ACTION! Conrad....Jimmy....Mary.....what do they all have in common? Not one of them made a difference........but we keep putting the same people in office because they get endorsed by the BTF.....Cops....CWA.....you get the picture.

I don't know why Bufffam dislikes Schroder.....he did give us a GED center....which now neighbors are complaining about loitering? Owl....action is the key word to fixing problems!

[Night Owl]

No, I certainly haven't.

Then why ask someone else to do something if it isn't their property?

[Night Owl]

Let me first say that your endorsement of Conrad (appointed) was touching and heart warming.

HUH??? All I said is...


Jeff Conrad is said to be a supporter of a rental registry

Jeff Conrad is also said to be 'on-board' with Councilman Franczk's quality of life proposal

councilman Conrad is in part to help with the Seneca Street project

...and suggested that we call our councilman.

Hardly touching and heart warming.

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by Night Owl
No, I certainly haven't.

Then why ask someone else to do something if it isn't their property?

Don't take what I said out of context. You're better than that.

[Night Owl]

Don't take what I said out of context.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
Hmmm????

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by Night Owl
[B.and suggested that we call our councilman.
Hardly touching and heart warming.


Look anything they put on the book's is not enforced! Prime example is the speed limit through Caz park. 15 mph, one thing that Mary aligned herself with. Who enforces the "law?" What I'm saying is that your presentation of Conrads ability to jump on the red wagon he likes or Lenehan likes, will not curtail nor solve the problems. Regardless of what wagon he's in, me, you and the rest of SB need to get off our ass and make it happen. Conrad will tell you what you want to hear! Election time brings out the best in people. What I want Conrad to do is take the housing inspector door to door on some of these houses. Conrad should have his own list that needs to be taken care of. Just once, I want to call our council members office to report a house and they tell me they already know about it and this is what they are doing! Me, I would be paying some owners a visit! Conrad can't be everywhere....that's where we come in!

TIME FOR CHANGE IN SB!

[Night Owl]

I think Conrad, while a party-picked/endorsed/appointed candidate, is doing rather well during his short time in office.

There was something I thought was a concern, I called his office and talked to his aid, he called be back an hour later, and the next day the problem was taken care of.

Yes, ReformWNY, I do call my elected representatives, unfortunately I am waiting a month now for Kennedy to call me back on a few other topics of the 2nd district.

[Night Owl]

TIME FOR CHANGE IN SB!

I saw a sign today which said that very same thing, it was a Kearns/Sullivan/Whalen promo.

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by Night Owl
I think Conrad, while a party-picked/endorsed/appointed candidate, is doing rather well during his short time in office.


Don't you get it Owl? Just because he called you back within the hour only means one thing....he wasn't out in the district. At least Jimmy would call me back when he got home at night. Doing rather well......is he doing Jimmy business? SB will forever suffer for the stupidity of it's voters! It's one side of the creek that keeps the same fools in office!

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by Night Owl
TIME FOR CHANGE IN SB!

I saw a sign today which said that very same thing, it was a Kearns/Sullivan/Whalen promo.

Oh no..........

[buffalofamily]

mnballsSEZ:
SB will forever suffer for the stupidity of it's voters! It already is suffering. Time for a change from the party politics of the past.

andsez:
Oh no.......... about Sullivan Kerarns and Whalen. I know Sully and Mickey have my vote. Whalen will have to sell himself in the community. I haven't heard him yet.

BF

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
I know Sully and Mickey have my vote. Whalen will have to sell himself in the community. I haven't heard him yet.

BF

Good Job buffalo Family. A vote for Paul Sullivan is a Vote for Joel Giambra! Way to get that "new blood" in there pal! Good thinking!

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by ReformWNY
A vote for Paul Sullivan is a Vote

What's wrong with Paul? I guess we still don't believe the Medicade thing...."It's al Giambra's fault"...according to the local media............

[Night Owl]

SB will forever suffer for the stupidity of it's voters! It's one side of the creek that keeps the same fools in office!

Ease up on the voters please. At least this is a voting community, some areas don't have a voter turn-out. And with that, one's vote for change differs from another's opinion of change.

Jeff Conrad has done more than just call me back.

Doing rather well......is he doing Jimmy business?

Jimmy Griffin is a dear sweet, compassionate man, he is a nice friend to have, but I don't recall him establishing a rental registry, I don't recall him establishing a Neighborhood Response Team, I don't recall him establishing Slope Wall Project, among other things as Conrad has done in less than a year.

While Jimmy talked about cleaning up Seneca Street, Jeff Conrad is on-board with the people trying to make something happen. If anything doesn't happen on Seneca Street, I am sure the voters will determine which way their vote goes in the Primaries.

There is about 2½ more weeks for residents to see an improvement on Seneca Street before campaigning challengers pick up on a last minute platform of "where are the improvement?"

Mickey has a lot of great ideas and possitive outlooks for the South District as does Jeff. Mickey is a great guy, so is Jeff.

Oh no..........

Was that your signage? :p

ReformWNY, A vote for Tim Kennedy is a Vote for status-quo of Higgins and Schroeder. They live for photo-ops and press conferences that produce no real signs of improvement. Tim Kennedy hasn't shown himself to be a politican that can stand up on his own.

[Dino330]

Originally posted by mynikeballs
What's wrong with Paul?

He's a Giambracrat and he runs negative campaigns. There are long discussions dealing with these and other issues under the threads, "Paul Sullivan... Giambra's candidate?" and "New Leadership or Old Patronage, Your Choice" in the candidates for district 2 section.

[Dino330]

Tim Kennedy hasn't shown himself to be a politican that can stand up on his own.

Ugh. Where to even start? The way he stood up to Joel Giambra? The way he voted against the sales tax, which was NOT what the people endorsing him wanted him to do? His $12,000 pay cut upon joining the legislature? His involvement in the community?

Come on, Night Owl. Again, these are things we discussed in those threads I mentioned earlier. I still don't understand why you keep trying to portray Kennedy working closely with Higgins, Schroeder, and Conrad as a bad thing.

[Night Owl]

It's only a bad thing if nothing is improved. Kennedy can work closely with the devil himself, I wouldn't care, but can come out looking good if things are actually being done... that's what I mean by being a stand-up guy.

Has anyone seen images of construction work going on at the waterfront site yet? That Press conference was quite a few weeks ago, is it being redevolped as we speak?

Seneca Street has a 2 week deadline of "noticable improvement by the end of August", I haven't seen anything new going up.

Kennedy, the first time I heard him speak (just a week or so after being appointed) he said he will work with Higgins and Schroeder. That is the tie that is pulling him down right now. Schroeder and Higgins are not offering anything more than pictures in the news, Kennedy is playing right along with that - something that IMO is holding him back.

[Dino330]

Here's a Seneca Business District question...

What's the deal with Abbott Pizza on Seneca Street? How many times is that family going to open or close it down? Abbott Pizza closed down, so they rechristened it Tony's Steak Out. Then that closed down, to be reopened as Abbott Pizza. Now it's closed again.

In my opinion, Abbott had the best pizza in South Buffalo until the sons took over. Now it's an overpriced, shoddy product.

(I think I should have waited until after lunch to post. Gino & Joes in five minutes baby)!

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by Night Owl
[BEase up on the voters please. At least this is a voting community, some areas don't have a voter turn-out. And with that, one's vote for change differs from another's opinion of change.

Jeff Conrad has done more than just call me back.

Jimmy Griffin is a dear sweet, compassionate man, he is a nice friend to have, but I don't recall him establishing a rental registry, I don't recall him establishing a Neighborhood Response Team, I don't recall him establishing Slope Wall Project, among other things as Conrad has done in less than a year.
[/B]

OK, I'll ease up on the nepitism voters.

The establishment of programs is nothing more than what it is. You miss the boat on most everything. It's the party way to establish new and or improved programs without funding or enforcemnet! Who will run the registry, who will enforce it? Where is the funding coming from for this slope project? Will the control board allow the expenditure? Neighborhood response team? What can they respond to? He has done all this in less than one year? We can't get our teachers to pay $100.00 a month for Health Care(see if he'll jump on that wagon).....But we need a rental registry and a Response team.....maybe they can respond to the tax base issue and the out of control spending? Bill of goods Owl!

[mynikeballs]

Originally posted by Dino330
Ugh. Where to even start? The way he stood up to Joel Giambra? The way he voted against the sales tax, which was NOT what the people endorsing him wanted him to do? His $12,000 pay cut upon joining the legislature? His involvement in the community?

Come on, Night Owl. Again, these are things we discussed in those threads I mentioned earlier. I still don't understand why you keep trying to portray Kennedy working closely with Higgins, Schroeder, and Conrad as a bad thing.


OH PLEASE SPARE US..............................

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by Night Owl
No, I certainly haven't.

Then why ask someone else to do something if it isn't their property?

Maybe it's not your property but it's your community.

[ReformWNY]

ReformWNY, A vote for Tim Kennedy is a Vote for status-quo of Higgins and Schroeder.


And THANK GOD for THAT!

I don't know if you've paid mych attention to your neighborhood lately, but 80% or so of your neighbors think this is a GOOD thing.

And mynikeballs wrote: OH PLEASE SPARE US..............................
Can you expound on that? Spare us how? Are you saying Sully isn't getting his support from Pigeon, Olma, and the Giambracrats?

[WNYresident]

IN all honestly I would believe you would want people NOT supported by anyone already in the system. Look at the crap the rep/dem parties have "endorsed" over the years. Do you really want more of the same?

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by WNYresident
IN all honestly I would believe you would want people NOT supported by anyone already in the system. Look at the crap the rep/dem parties have "endorsed" over the years. Do you really want more of the same?

There is a lot of crap out there... mazur, etc. that I would never vote for. But I see Higgins bringing a lot more to the table both now and in the future. He's a young guy in congress with a lot of potential. Same with Kennedy. I'd MUCH rather put my money on a young Kennedy then an old Giambra throwback who's been in patronage jobs his whole life... or for that matter, anyone who has his career formed around favors that they owe. Kennedy came in, and yes, he was backed by Lenihan, Higgins, etc... but Tim has also shown he's not afraid to vote against his party.

People need to judge the individual, and not generalize.

[buffalofamily]

WNYresidentSEZ:
I would believe you would want people NOT supported by anyone already in the system.

I want change so I'm picking the non endorsed candidates based on the fact that the party does not give all democrats an equal chance at an endorsement. I also base my pick on who is QUALIFIED. The party picks are much less qualified than qualified candidates who are seeking change for the better.

AND SEZ:
Do you really want more of the same? Nope.

BF

[Night Owl]

Maybe it's not your property but it's your community.

Nice comment WNYresident, but would you want someone from another area to request of you to take care of another's property?

And THANK GOD for THAT!

You support the "status quo"?

But I see Higgins bringing a lot more to the table both now and in the future.

Where???

What???

When???

I'd MUCH rather put my money on a young Kennedy then an old Giambra throwback who's been in patronage jobs his whole life...

It may be patronage... but it's not pork!

[buffalofamily]

ReformSEZ
People need to judge the individual, and not generalize. OK
I judge you to be part of the problem. Same as the ones you support.

Time for a big change!

BF

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
ReformSEZ OK
I judge you to be part of the problem. Same as the ones you support.

Time for a big change!

BF


*yawn*....

[WNYresident]

Maybe it's not your property but it's your community.

Nice comment WNYresident, but would you want someone from another area to request of you to take care of another's property?

I didn't say from another area. I said "your community".

Would it be so hard for a group of "community" minded people to occasionally walk up and down seneca street and pick up garbage in front of these vacant buildings if that was an issue? Instead of complaining how vacant landlords don't care of thier properties? Still complain but also do something about it.

I didn't say people from other communities should request someone elses community be fixed up. If the community in question can't take care of itself why should it expect others to step up to the plate?

[Night Owl]

Instead of complaining how vacant landlords don't care of thier properties? Still complain but also do something about it.

It's the responsibility of the property owner to take care of their vacant buldings. It is not anyone's responsibility to tell someone else to take care of it.

I didn't say people from other communities should request someone elses community be fixed up. If the community in question can't take care of itself why should it expect others to step up to the plate?

I think you are confused, but that's okay .... never mind.

[WNYresident]

Instead of complaining how vacant landlords don't care of thier properties? Still complain but also do something about it.

Night Owl
It's the responsibility of the property owner to take care of their vacant buldings. It is not anyone's responsibility to tell someone else to take care of it.

Read your comment. Self responsibility. I guess it's time to STOP all welfare programs because "It is not anyone's responsibility to tell someone else to take care of it." Isn't that what welfare is? Telling someone else to take care of someone elses issues?

It is the communities responsibility to keep thier community up to snuff. If the community doesn't do it NO ONE ELSE will.

[WNYresident]

I didn't say people from other communities should request someone elses community be fixed up. If the community in question can't take care of itself why should it expect others to step up to the plate?


Nightowl sez:
I think you are confused, but that's okay .... never mind.

Why do you think I'm confuse and tell me what I'm confused over?

[Night Owl]

It is the communities responsibility to keep thier community up to snuff.

Right you are, but on the other hand our Councilman has set up what's called the rental registry which would make it the property owner's responsibility to take care of his/her property.

Just forget about it, okay?

We'll have this thread going on shaming the residents for the laziness of property owners whom are allowing their buildings to fall to the ground. Let's forget about lobbying our government bodies to have the upper hand in some accountability!

Not everything is as perfect as Cheektowaga.

See ya!

[ReformWNY]

Not everything is as perfect as Cheektowaga.

Which is why we're trying to HELP!

;)

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by Night Owl
It is the communities responsibility to keep thier community up to snuff.

Right you are, but on the other hand our Councilman has set up what's called the rental registry which would make it the property owner's responsibility to take care of his/her property.

Just forget about it, okay?

We'll have this thread going on shaming the residents for the laziness of property owners whom are allowing their buildings to fall to the ground. Let's forget about lobbying our government bodies to have the upper hand in some accountability!

Not everything is as perfect as Cheektowaga.

See ya!

"Just forget about it, okay?"

What a lame rebuttal. Educate me so I know why I'm wrong.

First,

How does a rental registry make the owner responisible for taking care of thier property? Which council person came up with this idea and why? Has it been successful in making property owners more responsible?

Sometimes it's not laziness, it's econimic conditions which prevent then from being able to take care of thier properties. What are you supposed to do? Fix it up so the "local" government can assess your building for higher amount and get boned with higher property taxes on a building you can't rent out to start with?

Remember some of these buildings have been owned by the same people who got caught in the decline of the nieghborhood. I'm sure if they had a choice they would rather have them rented than not.

[WNYresident]

Not everything is as perfect as Cheektowaga.

Cheektowaga is far from perfect. I heard there's an extensive friends and family plan within the towns labor force.

I also believe the town council and superivisor can't keep labor cost under control which includes abundant over time issues with various employees.

Also, look at the vacant buildling along union road. THere are quite a few of them. If they are paying there full share of taxes then it's not that bad but perhaps they are not.

I would rather see trees than empty strip malls.

[buffalofamily]

I see nothing going on. Seneca St. looks like a ghost town. Heard that tumbleweed was spotted near Seneca & Cazenovia.

BF

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
I see nothing going on. Seneca St. looks like a ghost town. Heard that tumbleweed was spotted near Seneca & Cazenovia.

BF

Sure, you "heard" about it... but didn't see it. Why? because as much as you complain, why would you bother to actually GO there and patronize the area with your business?

[Dino330]

Blasdell Pizza is moving into the old Abbott Pizza building. I saw that Friday.

[buffalofamily]

Heard the Mars landing probe went off course. It landed smack dab in the middle of Seneca Street.

The report back to NASA was.........









































































































NO LIFE ON SENECA STREET>>> :eek: :eek:

[buffalofamily]

Wow another Pizza place reopening and a hip hop store to get a no snitching shirt at. Wow real progress for Seneca St.

Nothing happened by the end of August...Do you think the politicians ment August of 2006...they keep putting things off year after year.

Vote for new officials on Sept. 13th. primary Day

BF

[Night Owl]

buffalofamily, you really don't have to take up so much blank space in a post.

[ReformWNY]

I think these ridiculous posts where you have to scroll and scroll and scroll should be deleted, as they are an ignorant abuse of a message board. Go back to third grade with that garbage. If you're going to have an opinion, at least be mature about it.

Most moderators don't tolerate that garbage. It's worse than repetitiveness.

[buffalofamily]

REFORMSEZ:
I think these ridiculous posts where you have to scroll and scroll and scroll should be deleted, as they are an ignorant abuse of a message board. Who's ignorant here ... go back and read all your posts reform.

andSEZ:
If you're going to have an opinion, at least be mature about it. You should follow your own words reformWNY. Nothing worse than an inmature political hack.

NOWLSEZ:

buffalofamily, you really don't have to take up so much blank space in a post. yes I do..for the suspense factor...it's my opinion the way I want it posted. At least I don't put up pictures that take forever to load etc...

BF

[Dino330]

Buffalofamily, you would have been better off saying "I know you are, but what am I?"

[buffalofamily]

BACK TO TOPIC:

Original topic:
Seneca Street Business District
Two South Buffalo politicians made similar claims last week concerning the Seneca Street Business District.

In a News (7/22/03) article about a cancelled park event, Legislator Mark J.F. Schroeder stated that a Chamber was formed in January of 2002 because "there were 64 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street." Now there are only 23, he said.

In an Everybody's Column piece written by South District Councilmember Mary Martino, a claim of 60 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street alone when she took office. She stated, There are now approximately 20 vacancies.

After reading these two claims, I wondered:

Where are the 40+ new businesses on Seneca street? I do see a couple new businesses, but Over 40 less vacancies. HMMMM

Fuzzy Math?

Buffalofamily

bf

[ReformWNY]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
BACK TO TOPIC:

Original topic:
Seneca Street Business District
Two South Buffalo politicians made similar claims last week concerning the Seneca Street Business District.

In a News (7/22/03) article about a cancelled park event, Legislator Mark J.F. Schroeder stated that a Chamber was formed in January of 2002 because "there were 64 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street." Now there are only 23, he said.

In an Everybody's Column piece written by South District Councilmember Mary Martino, a claim of 60 vacant storefronts on Seneca Street alone when she took office. She stated, There are now approximately 20 vacancies.

After reading these two claims, I wondered:

Where are the 40+ new businesses on Seneca street? I do see a couple new businesses, but Over 40 less vacancies. HMMMM

Fuzzy Math?

Buffalofamily

bf

He didn't say there were 40 MORE businesses, He said there were 40 LESS vacancies.

The rest of the buildings were all torched by kids from Lovejoy. There ya go. Problem Solved. No more vacant properties.

[buffalofamily]

YAY

More empty lots - empty stores - empty promises!


Reformsez:
The rest of the buildings were all torched by kids from Lovejoy. There ya go. Problem Solved. No more vacant properties.

I think you owe an explination about this Lovejoy comment. An apology to the good citizens of Lovejoy is in order.

Now we are 1/2 month past August and I see one storefront being renovated w/o a business going in. Next to that yet another 2nd. hand store.

bf

[ReformWNY]

I'm sorry... were you typing something? Your obnoxiously large text got in the way of my computer screen.

[buffalofamily]

better?
.

[edited the empty space] ADMIN

bf

[Dino330]

Good job. You finally posted something that didn't make you sound like an idiot.

This time you just look like one.

[ReformWNY]

MODERATOR:
Please delete this ignorant post, and explain to people the proper courtesies that NORMAL people extend to the fellow readers of a message board, such as not using all caps, not using an obnoxiously large font.. and not wasting scroll space for whatever the purpose. Thanks

[buffalofamily]

That empty space represents what Schroeder and Higgins & the Kids have done for Seneca St.


NOTHING

BF

[James1955]

Originally posted by buffalofamily
That empty space represents what Schroeder and Higgins & the Kids have done for Seneca St.


NOTHING

BF

Buffalofamily what have you done? Do you shop there for all your goods? Do you eat there?

Hertel was done by mostly private money, after all thats what we want on Seneca St. don't we?

[y2000]

Buy what exactly?
Don't you need a store to shop at?

Even the D&K left.

[WNYresident]

What most people here who expect government to bail them out fail to see is you can't force success. If the "success" has to be subsidized year after year you can't call it a success. Your basically throwing money to mask failure while calling it progress.

Good example is when you see grants to help store owners get a new awning or just doll up thier store fronts. Does that really increase thier business or just give the politicians a false sense of "look at what we accomplished".

I'm surprized that seneca street couldn't have small businesses supported by all thier local south buffalo residents. Problem is I see is people in SB will still shop where they could save a buck.

You are not going to have a mom/pop business compete against a walmart, sams, target or bestbuy. Now take what businesses you have left that does not compete with those types of businesses and what do you have left to open up there? Not a whole bunch really that could hit a price point that would tend to have people shop there versus running to the next cheapest box retailer.

Now what I do believe in is infrastructure maintance. Sidewalks, streets etc should not get into a state of dis-repair. Towns/cities in our area seem to take what ever is left over in my opinion and spend it too heavily on employee/government compensation versus community maintance.

Example: When you hear Buffalo ending the year with money in the bank they should take that money and FIX things. NOT let the unions say "Well look there's a surplus we want raises". The surplus if there ever was any shouldn't be looked at as a profit for the unions/politicians. A community isn't a "governmental employee" profit center.

So where has all the taxes that have been collected over the years from the South Buffalo area gone? Road maintaince? Sideway repair? Light fixture repair?