Who do we want for Erie County Executive

[WNYresident]

Who would we like for our Erie County Executive!

Lets practice our voting skills.

Post any comments if you would like on why one might be better than the other. Keep it clean :) Post if you know anyone that would make a better Erie County Executive.

[Unregistered]

I voted for Dan Ward because I do not believe that he would hire as many patronage jobs or use patronage jobs to gain political motives as Giambra has.

[Unregistered]

Exactly what experience does Dan have that would make him better than Giambra? Giambra has the experience with how things work in the county along with his experience in Buffalo. He's doing a good job with the county now, don't blow it.

[Unregistered]

Why can't a board of residents just hire a county executive and give them a job description to follow. He doesn't do what he's told he's fired and replace.

Why do they have so many elected positions to begin with. That right there leads to what we have in all of WNY.

[sbGUY27]

I don't like what Giambra is trying to do to Buffalo.

And I don't know who Dan Ward is.

So I went with neither.

This poll should go up again when the campaigning starts.
Or has it. Incumbents don't really have to campaign in this area.
It is almost a lock. Erie county should just set the polls on cruise control.

[Unregistered]

I voted for Dan Ward because I am greatly angered that Giambra is trying so hard to destroy the city. Using the scapegoat that his wife is morally against a casino, as a reason to oppose a downtown casino, is absolutely ridiculous. He is trying to sabotage any hopes of saving the city. It also angers me the way the media praises this guy. I know firsthand , he is no angel, far from it. I know I am only one vote, but I am voting for Ward and hoping he can pull it off.

[Allyssa]

I don't know much about the new Guy running... but anyone has to be better than what we have now.

To me it's a case of "enough is enough" with Giambra leading the way.... to the broken promise land.

[Unregistered]

"To me it's a case of "enough is enough" with Giambra leading the way.... to the broken promise land."
The only thnig I can think that Giambra hasn't been able to do is proceed with his consolidation plans. And that is because he has symied by union and neighborhood group special interests. It seems a bit disingenuous to activly participate in obstructing Giambras policies and then cite how he can't seem to get anything done, as you are doing right now.

[Unregistered]

I would of voted for giambra but as an earlier post said, he's as guilty of the political patronage stuff too. Some of his ideas have merit but that doesn't allow him the right to put people in positions to just suck tax money.

Everyone in politics is currupt to a point. I will vote for dan seeing he record shows very little money taken from developers and he frowns on patronage hiring.

[WNYresident]

Which one has actual business experience? NOT "Oh i have 20 years in civil service" experience.

[buffalofamily]

I voted Ward. Giambra is the Library destroyer! Ward better fight to save our libraries, or I'll write myself in at the booth.

BF

[Unregistered]

VOTED FOR WARD AND PREDICT THAT SOON AFTER THE ELECTION WE WILL HAVE A REVELATION SIMILIAR TO THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND FIND WE HAVE A FISCAL CRISIS.

ALSO, AM NOT INTERESTED IN PAYING FOR "METRO POLICE"

[WNYresident]

Metro Police would be awesome if we took the lowest common pay for all of them. We would remove duplicated departments and if done correctly would save money. We just dont' have good business people making up the plan.

[Unregistered]

We can start a thread of ward / giambra

We can point out the good/bad points of each and then why each would be better for the position. Base it more on fact and experience in the issues that need to be corrected.

Like who caused of thier carreer more issues good or bad since they have been in office etc...

[WNYresident]

Here is a site that has some info about dan ward

dan ward (http://www.electdanward.com)

Does anyone have a link for Giambra?

[TDoran]

Originally posted by WNYresident
Here is a site that has some info about dan ward

dan ward (http://www.electdanward.com)



They may want to invest in spell check at that site.


I WONT TOO RUHN FER COUNTEE EGGSECUTIFF!!

[TDoran]

The PBA is endorsing Ward.....isn't that Meegan's little playground???

Bleh! I wouldn't vote for either of them, just like how I filled out that poll a week back or so.

[WNYresident]

Of course they'll endorse ward, they don't want giambra to consolidate them.

[WNYresident]

I went to an Amherst Board meeting last night. Dan Ward showed that he's for the residents of amherst and not big goverment or wasteful spending.

[Unregistered]

The only thing "King Joel" has done is hire his many friends and relatives for high paid jobs. Ward being who he is gets my vote hands down. This administrations key words are "Contract" it out. This in itself is not cost effective to the taxpayers of Erie County. It has been proven all over the country that contracting out is not the answer..Check the facts. We will all pay dearly for his misdeeds if he is reelected..

[WNYresident]

How many hired do you think are not qualified for thier positions?

[sbGUY27]

At my place of work we are bring all of our printing needs in house. Because the price of contracting or outsourcing was getting to great. It was cheaper to buy new printers and pay a little overtime here and there than to pay someone else. We only make out on outsourcing work if the quantity exceeds a certain amount, I am not the company purchaser so I don't know when that is , but I can tell you it is not very often.

[sbGUY27]

Another thing about contracting.

A neighbor of mine was looking to have his driveway recemented.
He looked around and the least he could have it doe for was 1200.
That was until the contractor hired by the city to replace side walks came around. Being that he had not called this contractor he asked and was given a price of 800.
Why do you think he was given an offer 400 less than the lowest he was offered .

Because he bought concrete cheap from the city to do city work and used it to make a little profit on the side.
At least that is what my neighbor was told by the contractor.

[Unregistered]

"The only thing "King Joel" has done is hire his many friends and relatives for high paid jobs. Ward being who he is gets my vote hands down. This administrations key words are "Contract" it out. This in itself is not cost effective to the taxpayers of Erie County. It has been proven all over the country that contracting out is not the answer..Check the facts. We will all pay dearly for his misdeeds if he is reelected.."

???????????????????????

I live in a city where just about everything is contracted out. Everything runs great, it's clean, and taxes are so low compared to buffalo, it's shocking.

"It has been proven all over the country that contracting out is not the answer..Check the facts."
This is complete BS... I see it work every day. I suspect he works for the city or something....

[Unregistered]

"Because he bought concrete cheap from the city to do city work and used it to make a little profit on the side.
At least that is what my neighbor was told by the contractor."

more likely, he was using concrete that the city purchased on a "time and materials" contract job. He ordered an excess of raw material and kept the unused portion. It's an old scam. He then was able to charge a low price because he got the materials for free.
Not only was he stealing from the city, he was also hurting legitimate competitors who were giving honest quotes.

"Why do you think he was given an offer 400 less than the lowest he was offered . "
that's why....

[WNYresident]

Someone mentioned to me when Griffin was mayor that there was a project to put a brick wall/fence around the monument near city hall. They started it and people complained it was stupid seeng you would block the view of the monument to anyone driving around the circle.

THen he said, you know where all those bricks went that were purchased? He said go check the mayors house and a few others.. they used them there seeing they were already purchased.

Could this be true?

If it is true, who is supposed to monitor this type of activity?

[sbGUY27]

so this contractor lied to the city and my neighbor. Actually stole from both of them.

[Curmudgeon]

that's my guess. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Whenever you think you are getting something for nothing, look again—someone, somewhere, somehow is paying for it. Behind every free lunch there is a hidden cost to be accounted for.

[WNYresident]

Ever notice when someone says the money if from the goverment they make it sound likes it ok to take it. Don't they realize it's NOT from the goverment. It's from the taxpayer that is forced to pay for it. YOu don't mind helping anyone out and contributing to a community but you get to the point of enough is enough.


Has a state ever had a control board? where as they can be purged top down?

[Unregistered]

"I live in a city where just about everything is contracted out. Everything runs great, it's clean, and taxes are so low compared to buffalo, it's shocking."

Contracting out SAVES $$$$ - b/w competition of bidding and that contractors have lower labor overhead - municipality can always save if someone minds the store. Besides, the job is ALWAYS done better, neater and more efficiently.

Where I live, grass cutting is almost exclusively contracted out.
The cost has decreased every year through competitive bidding, from a high of approx. $60,000 to $27,000 for more areas being cut. This has also allowed for a reduction number of employees, and has drastically reduced equipment costs (buying mowers, gas, repairs, etc.). Plus, the private contractors do a better job!

And if the job is not satisfactory, you call them and they come back and correct it without demanding overtime or filing a grievance.

[Unregistered]

It is sad to see in Buffalo the outrage and contrast of power, ignorance and poverty because the politician works for their own personal interests and elite group.
A good leader is the one that work seriously hard for the whole community improving the status of life and education of all, especially those in most disadvantages.
I can't believe that a city that can be a great city and a wonderful place to live turn to be a really a place of undetermined power battle of an elite group that dispute to manipulate the present and future of those submerge in ignorance because the education stink and the antagonism of arrogance of superiority make this city a real twilight zone. A city of constant survival that doesn't know about how to succeed together because is prohibited by . . . and is drive by evil guidance that hide in the minds and hearts. Stereotyping each other in different group or subgroups and isolate those that doesn't agree or do not fit with our personal standards in order to take personal advantage over others, doesn’t work. The short and misuse of meaning and manipulation of the present concept issues are big and unrealistic for that reason while all this happens the dirt bury the illusion and grandeur of what can be a great city to live.
It time to stop hiding the good things and giving only to our family, friend or relative and give to everyone the equally competitive opportunity to receive good education, job and a good place to live.

[Curmudgeon]

That's a collection of words that would confound even Al Sharpton...
Not sure what the message was but it seemed nice enough.

[sbGUY27]

I was lookin through this thread again and found a post that was about metro police.

Why does every municapality have a seperate police force?
If the state has a poilce force and the county has a police force why does the city or town have to a full blown police force? Are we not paying taxes for the same kind of service 3 times ?

i know that there are different laws from town to town but couldn't we have a few city and more county so there is not as much of a burden on tax payers. If the whole county is paying for the same service will it make that service cheaper like Giambra says.

[WNYresident]

IT won't happen.. THey have their own group that they must keep. Really all we need in one oversite type police force with a department for each burb.

[Unregistered]

That is sort of what I was trying to get at

[Unregistered]

Exactly why do we have seperate departments for everything in the area.

GOod example, 7 school districts in cheektowaga? Why can't we have one superindentant for cheektowaga? If each one get's $100,000 a year we can knock off $600,000 right from the budget counting thier support staff. The job is basically the same for each so why repeat it 7 times.

Does each town/city have thier own payroll department? Can't we just hire APD or Paychecks? These companies handle 1000's of checks a week, I think they could handle a little more. Plus with them handling it we can set flags when someone is abusing overtime. :)

The list goes on and on.........

[Curmudgeon]

that's called "consolidation" and "privatization"...

Giambra has been pushing this ever since he was elected. Need I say more?

[Unregistered]

Consolidation of many service could be a good thing. I think alot of burbs arefor it in one way or another. I see their concern being more of an identity loss if this was ever to take place.

[WNYresident]

You notice the ones that complain about consolidation or privatization are the unions/politicians.

Most residents I know just want to play less and they don't care who does the work.

The polticians have to fight for the unions otherwise they wouldn't get thier votes.

I don't mean all unions, i mean the local civil service unions that feathered thier beds. Maybe if I worked for a town and had the best benis and the chance to abuse overtime i would comnplain too about loosing that privilage.

:)

You know guys. don't think i'm cold and not caring. I just do not like paying all the taxes we do when you see other state residents paying far less.

[Curmudgeon]

"I see their concern being more of an identity loss if this was ever to take place."

I don't think suburban residents care about "identity" so much. I think they are concerned about the structure of a new regional government. To be specific, they don't want a much larger "city of buffalo" government, with all the existing players and interests in the city ruining their towns as well.
In order for consolidation to happen, the existing organizations will have to be restructured substantially. Already, you hear the unions say "if X number of like departments are merged, then all members of that new department must be paid a rate of the HIGHEST paid old department"... A "poison-pill" strategy for sure.
That kind of thinking nust be discredited prior to any consolidation efforts. I think the Control Board's authority should be extended by the state to include oversseing the county as well. This would make implementation of any new consolidation-related labor issues more manageable. The unions won't be able to litigate consolidation efforts for years on end, like they intend to now.

[WNYresident]

Over all why do you think elected politicians and civil servants believe they are immune to a down turn in the economy?

Do they really think they are valuable enough to force the residents to cover thier increases of operating cost just because they are who they are?

[Unregistered]

Dan Ward was elected once before and was defeated the next time he reran because he did not perform very well.
The city of Buffalo and Common Council is run by Democrats and look at the mess they have created. If you keep putting these people back in office Buffalo will never survive. The same way with the Control Board, leave the politicians off the board and let sound business men put their heads together to revive the city. When you hire minorities who do not perform and then pay them to leave something is wrong! We keep firing the firemen and policemen but you never see the politicians put on the chopping block.jdkm@olm1.com

[sbGUY27]

The problem isn't minorities in general. It is the level at which minorities are educated in this area. When Pitts wanted a 33% hire rate and the companies looked at the demographic , Hahahahahahahahahha. We did not have a chance of landing any business after that. You can tell yourself that the minorities in wny are worth hireing but when half of the positions available are requireing degrees, forget it.

[WNYresident]

SB... you know that is not targeting them. It's just a basic fact.

[Unregistered]

Giambra is nothing but a snake oil salesman. He was able to give his big "property tax break" because he used up all the money from the previous county surpluses and from borrowed money from a tobacco settlement he hasnt even received yet. County taxpayers will be shocked to learn that he has run 40million dollar DEFICIT budgets for the past two years. He is too busy grandstanding in the news media to every issue under the sun so people wont realize that he gets nothing done himself. he wants police conslidation?? The taxpayer referendum to consolidate the county jails is now three years old and he still hasnt accomplised that. The takeover of the Buffalo police cellblock?? That was supposed to happen in 2002.....still hasnt.
He's too busy talking a good game and blaming it on the unions. Buffalo teachers/firemen/cops and their unions are the problem Joel. The news reported that Buffalo cops make 10-12K less than their suburban counterparts and Buffalo Teachers make 13-15K less.....Seems like the problem is the suburbanites who choose to pay their police and teachers big salaries......but we dont hear about them being overpaid do we Joel.
Also by the way......who was the city comptroller for 8yrs prior to being elected county exec..........Hmmm if your not part of the solution your part of the problem Joel.

[Unregistered]

I really dont think it is the unions who are afraid of consolidation. I know alot of buffalo cops that would like nothing better than to transfer out and work the easy pace in Amherst as opposed to chasing idiots with guns through dark alleys every night. And I know a few teachers that would prefer clean classrooms with proper supplies and well behaved students as opposed to some of the buffalo schools which are nothing more than day care center/day prisons with no leaning going on at all. But remember this suburban......I'm OK with consolidation types......That means all the social service drop off centers and drunk tanks come to your town too. That means that you take the chance of getting your kid bused to the inner city every day. If thats what you really want then I'm sure myself and my fellow city residents will be glad to consolidate eveything....we have been getting the dirty end of the stick for too long. I agree lets consolidate the whole magilla.

[WNYresident]

YOur missing the whole point. ALL goverment type in NYS are over paid compared to the average person paying those salaries. You have Large developers stealing "tax incentives" but keeping all the profits.

The politcians are puppets seeing they depend on thier "contributions" to run for office.

Plus, they don't have common sense. Rememeber most elected officials have no business experience. That's why we are not competative against other states currently.

[WNYresident]

OH i believe most civil servants are over paid generally now. Perhaps the salaries are not hte issue but the milking of the overtime and the cost of the beni's.

[Unregistered]

You are really an IDIOT. Don't you think other people other than you want a nice life?

Everyone gets sick or needs medication. Police risk thier lives everyday and need to be paid accordingly. I dont see you out there risking your life.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Unregistered
Exactly what experience does Dan have that would make him better than Giambra? Giambra has the experience with how things work in the county along with his experience in Buffalo. He's doing a good job with the county now, don't blow it.

Giambra was comptroller for the City of Buffalo and look at the financial situation it is in at present. Giambra didn't even finish H.S. and also got a GED diploma. He might have taken courses
but certainly never got any degree. Dan is an attorney

[WNYresident]

You can have experience though without a college degree. I dont have one and do well. Does giambra have any acutal real world experience in running a company? i personally don't consider a goverment administration real world anyhting seeing they believe money grows on trees, which we all knows does not. :)

[Curmudgeon]

Went to dans website and he finally put up some info on his "issues" page.

http://www.electdanward.com/issues.asp


Sad to see it was so brief, considering he could put up as much content as he wanted for the same price.

#1 item: Job Creation.
Doesn't say how or when, just like Hillary did when you elected her.

Peace Bridge:
The county has nothing to do with building the bridge, but it sounds good.

<<< Promote and Expand Free Wireless Internet Districts >>>
You have to be kidding me. Is giving away a product that private industry already sells such a burning issue at this time in this county?

I could go on, but I won't. What a collection of "do-good-isms" that mean absolutely nothing. This guy really doesn't have a plan, except to get elected and do what the Democratic party machine tells him to do. They have to get rid of the bogeyman Giambra, who keeps rocking the boat. I can't believe that 70% of the people on this site want to vote for this guy. He is the chosen representitive of more of the same. And, everyone is obviously thrilled with the status-quo!

[WNYresident]

Every realize how politicians sound like broken records. They must all get the same coaching..

More Jobs!

Lower Taxes!

I won't Lie!

I promise promise promise...


But seeing we have no laws to hold them accountable for thier actions it means nothing.

[morphinebrian]

Giambra lacks leadership. I'm not saying that Ward had leadership, but Giambra certainly doesn't. Pick a casino location and stick with it. Decide what should be done about the one percent sales tax and stick with it. All he does is play politics.
Giambra was correct when he talked about consolidation of services. It really is insane with the amount of duplication of services in this area. But when he talks about canceling the buffalo police contract, how is that soppose to make me feel as a Buffalo resident. I better hope to not be robbed or anything while the police are on strike. How much better of a contract does he think he'll get than what the city did? Unions are very rational organizations and are only seeking the best for its members. The new contract represent the best kind of deal: where both are giving a bit and both gain a bit. But Giambra chooses to grandstand and claim he could get such a better deal. Consolidation of services is a great idea, but pragmatism has to take precidence. Grandstanding is not leadership, choosing a course of action and sticking to your guns is. Giambra would like us all to beleive that it is the unions, not failed leadership, that got us to this point.
And where is Ward in all this. What is this guy standing for? I don't know what this campaign is doing. They aren't even attacking Giambra well, let alone creating a real sense of an alternative. If Ward ever plans on beating Giambra, he ought to start representing something.

[Curmudgeon]

<<<. If Ward ever plans on beating Giambra, he ought to start representing something.>>>
He does. He is the status quo. The representitive of the domocrat political machine. He is the last 30 years. He is the obstacle to meaningful change.

<<<But Giambra chooses to grandstand and claim he could get such a better deal. >>>
I hope so. the current deal is nothing but a payoff extorted from the taxpayer to implement policies that should have been implemented a decade ago.

<<<I better hope to not be robbed or anything while the police are on strike. >>>
How sad. You are afraid of your own police. I think they know you are afraid. That's what gives them the courage to block the 33 and do other things.

Aren't you tired of paying some of the highest taxes in the nation and watching your city and real estate investments fall apart?

[morphinebrian]

Of course they know I'm afraid if they go on strike. Any major city would be on edge if there city went on strike. That is not the issue at hand though. What Giambra is saying is that the new police contract is so bad that it is worth the strike. maybe its easier from the suburbs to knock the police contract, but those of us who have to live with it like it just fine. even in this weeks buffalo rocket they said service has been improved because of it. The bottom line is important, but so are the services. Why in no place in the police contract dispute do people not consider crime and safety of the citizens? Giambra sure doesn't. And Dan Ward sure is mum on the subject. News Flash: residents of the city care about things other than the financial state of the city. Instead, Giambra wants to prance around saying the county doesn't have to share one penny to the city. Well that doesn't fly with me.

And didn't the cops only block the 33 to the suburbanites who come to the city and work. It didn't affect me much!

[Unregistered]

"And didn't the cops only block the 33 to the suburbanites who come to the city and work. It didn't affect me much!"

Hmm... most of the cops fit the suburbanite description as well, so that's really hypocritical.

Come to think of it - it didn't affect me either since I come from the southtowns and didn't have to deal with it. So was it only a certain population of suburbanites they targeted?

[morphinebrian]

You know the issue of city police living in the city is such a complete waste of time. Sure I agree with the premise that it would be better if city cops lived in the city, but would it really be worth it in contract negotiations? I'd rather pay them less, or get more flexible scheduling out of them than have them live in the city. If my cops living in Hamburg means I pay less in taxes, I say enjoy the drive!

Why would city residents even care that much about cops giving out tickets to the suburbanites. I'm quite peeved that they come to my downtown to work and take advantages of the services I pay for, without paying for it themselves.

[Curmudgeon]

<<<Of course they know I'm afraid if they go on strike. >>>

The vast majority of americans aren't afraid of their police force. That is because their police force is effectivly managed. The buffalo police force and the PBA works for no one but themselves and they do exactly what they want to do. You seem to be OK with that. A good alternative would be to dissolve the police department and let the county sherriffs take over police services. Laid-off workers can't "strike". They can go apply to the Sherriffs department if they want a job. done deal. What is so hard about that?

<<<I'm quite peeved that they come to my downtown to work and take advantages of the services I pay for, without paying for it themselves.>>>
You think you're peeved? Ask any of those workers who are forced to go downtown. They don't want to be there! I'm sure most of them wish the company they work for would move out to amherst or orchard park. Ther is no benefit to working downtown, just paying for parking, derelicts, and traffic. You can keep your downtown.

[morphinebrian]

oh, i forgot! every single union except for the BPA wouldn't be going after the benefits of there members. every other union would play nice, take a pay cut and offer to work overtime for free.

the BPA is being greedy, thats what unions do! i don't like that, but i accept that as part of the equation wny has to solve. like it or not, we are still going to have to work with them. the new contract is very reasonable and workable.

the only reason giambra wants the county sheriff's to take over the Buffalo policeforce is because he can't find a job for all his friends' brother-in-laws. all it is is cronyism wearing a regionalist mask. if he could prove any real savings, he would of showed us the numbers by now!

Curmudgeon did have good points on the problems of downtown though, can't deny that.

[Curmudgeon]

<<<every other union would play nice, take a pay cut and offer to work overtime for free.>>>
in the USA, every worker is entitled to quit their job and find a better deal elsewhere if they feel they are not being compensated rnough for their labor. Being in a union does not imply a lifetime employment contract.

[morphinebrian]

workers are also entitled to join a union and negotiate collectively. being in a union does not guartentee a lifetime contract, but it does ensure the workers adequate pay and work conditions.
much of the problems in todays society stem from lack of unions. why does a company like walmart get off paying minimum wage while netting huge profits? Its because of lack of a union there to look after its workers interests. and what happens if a worker is romoured to be involved in starting a union? they find some b.s. reason to fire them.
don't knock unions for seeking the best for there workers.

[Curmudgeon]

<<<"workers are also entitled to join a union and negotiate collectively. ">>>
Yes. And employers should be able to say "I don't want to continue to employ that collective groep of people". If a group of workers want to band together and market themselves as a team, great. ITts evolved into an extortion racket.

<<<Its because of lack of a union there to look after its workers interests.>>>
Unions originally were groups of skilled workers. Wal-mart is unskilled labor. People shouldn't make a carreer out of being a wal-mart cashier. That's a job for the young and uneducated. Show me any union (like grocery store or nurses aid unions) that do anything for their membership besides steal their memberships money and kill productivity.

<<<but it does ensure the workers adequate pay and work conditions. >>>
OSHA and trial lawyers ensure work conditions. These days, the olny thing a union does is insulate the worker from accountability from management when they f**k up.

<<<why does a company like walmart get off paying minimum wage while netting huge profits?>>>
Imagine that - profits... what a terrible thing. too often organized labor has mistaken itself for investors. If you want to share in the profits, start your own business! I've got an idea: You can hire me to drive you to the falls casino as your driver and valet. I'll stand behind you while you play blackjack. Every time you win a hand, I'll take 1/2 your winnings. Every time you lose, I'll say "too bad, sir". I also want $10 an hour as my base wage. I'm in the "drivers and valet" union. Oh, and don't even consider firing me - I'll strike and make sure you can't get to the casino at all. If anyone tries to get my job, I'll beat them up. Sound fair? I don't care if you think it's fair or not - i'm ORGANIZED!

[WNYresident]

Curm Boy hit it on the head.

Yes there are extremes to either case but in general he's right this monday morning. Some jobs are only what they are worth and don't turn them into careers .

Don't compare police and firemen to cashiers though. I might sound harsh sometiems but I agree firemen and cops are far above a store clerk on the job scale.

THeir jobs are much more stressy than what a walmart cashier does.

BUT on the other hand they are not gods no matter what meegan tells them :)

[morphinebrian]

"Unions originally were groups of skilled workers. Wal-mart is unskilled labor. People shouldn't make a carreer out of being a wal-mart cashier. That's a job for the young and uneducated."

What about many of the unions that started up for unskilled factory workers? The meatpacking plants that employed 10 year olds. I'm don't want to call a 10 year old meat packer is equivelent to a 16 year old Walmart cashier, but why are so many companies now dependent on under 18 labor. As this country evolves from a manufacturing economy to a service economy, the basic fact is it means that unions are no longer there to protect many of the unskilled workers. Before, unskilled workers were able to get a nice living wage at a local unionized factory. However, as this economy shifts to service, the employers have learned from the past and work there ass off to prevent them from doing so. Walmart, in its job orientation, put an anti-union video on! While you and your friends may think that a carreer should be made at Walmart, many people, due to a variety of circumstances, have to. The disparity of wealth in this nation is growing, and its corporations like Walmart that are to blame.
May I reccommend a book to all you anti-union people: Nickle and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich.

"OSHA and trial lawyers ensure work conditions."
if it wasn't for unions, the only people giving to campaigns would be big business. the reason that there are any laws for trial lawyers to sue on for worker conditions is because of union lobbying. Who would control government if it wasn't for unions? It would be big business.

"Imagine that - profits... what a terrible thing."
it is when your workstaff over 18 is on foodstamps and other forms of public assistance. what kind of world are we living in when someone who works a fulltime job can't afford the basic neccessities for themselves, meanwhile the corporation they are working for is posting huge profits.

[WNYresident]

See your doing the extreme thing again. The majority of workers are not on food stamps.. Some are though. Perhaps if electric and gas were inline with what they should cost that money would go to dinner not utilities.

Everything is getting out of wack in the USA and we are going to extremes to try to control it.

Good example is health care. how stupid can one be to think a perscription of 20 pills is hundreds of dollars a month. THe drug companies know humans will pay for what they can and then they know usually the goverment will pay for those that can't. The moment the goverment steps in and guarantees these pills to who ever needs them the pills will double in price seeing the drug companies will know they can milk it. Politicians won't care seeing they will invest in the drug companies and profit from it.

Now this is going to sound cruel but don't help drug companies help people. If we didnt' subsidized with insurance the cost of pills less people would afford them. THey would sell less and they would have to lower the price to sell more. When insurance subsidizes them they know they can hike the price up. When goverment steps in they will over inflate them knowing the people will want them if they know the goverment will pay for them. Make sense? I for one do now want to pay through my taxes the health care for every one that is a hypocondriac :) That is not what made the USA great. Sounds like communism to me. Goverment supports everyone.

An asprin looks just like anyother pill but why is the new drug of the day 200 times more costly?! because we force insurance companies to pay for them. Congress doesn't care seeing they give themselves the best insurance possible to cover those cost. Time to start looking at the whole picture here. It's easy to promise the public everything to get your votes to keep your job specially when your not the one paying for it.

Just look at hillary. Promise promise promise and while she's working she's writing a book and out promoting it. Do we pay her while she's out working somewhere else? I still don't understand what she does and what we pay her for. SAme with most other NYS politicians. I'm not trying to sound stupid, it's just the facts.

[WNYresident]

Curm?

Your point of view on this?

[Curmudgeon]

<<<"What about many of the unions that started up for unskilled factory workers? ">>>
That was a very, very long time ago. We thank them for combating bad working conditions, but those conditions no longer exist.

<<<"While you and your friends may think that a carreer should be made at Walmart, many people, due to a variety of circumstances, have to.">>>
wal-mart is not a place to have a career. Neither is McDonalds.

<<<"Who would control government if it wasn't for unions? ">>>
It's the voters who control the government. You give unions way too much credit.

<<<"..it is when your workstaff over 18 is on foodstamps and other forms of public assistance....>>>
They can find another job or move to a location where their labor is needed.

<<<"Before, unskilled workers were able to get a nice living wage at a local unionized factory. ">>>
Certianly true in Buffalo. Where are those factories now? All put out of business by the unions.

[morphinebrian]

the entire american medical proffession is out of whack from where it should be. socialized medicine should not be feared because of some modern red scare. its easy to point at what the government pays, say thats not right, and argue that government shouldn't be involved in it. Government should be involved in making sure all Americans are at least partially covered in healthcare, however they have taken the wrong approach so far. I am no policy expert on healthcare, but we live in a world where the lower middle class have a harder time getting insured than the lowest class. its not that there shouldn't be government involvement in healthcare, however, they should use a smarter aproach.

my point earlier is that because of the shift to a service economy, and the subsequent fall of unionization, it is almost impossible to get a "living" wage in america today. So many Americans today are unskilled, especially single moms and minoritys, and they are left behind due to this lack of unionization. My entire point is unions are mostly a good thing. Furthurmore, in light of this, the city police contract was a good thing that benefitted both the workers and the residents of the city. As a city resident, I am happy with the increased response time and the less I have to pay for it.

[morphinebrian]

"They can find another job or move to a location where their labor is needed."

actually, no. the land market is dominated by the rich. how is one soppose to move without money?
what if they don't have a car? then any gains from a new job is spent of transportation. you think so many single parents work at walmart for the glamor of it. get real!

It's the voters who control the government. You give unions way too much credit.

i soppose all this talk about campaign finance is all nonsence then because government is run by the voters. its unions that are voters, not businesses. businesses only care about profits, its unions that fight for the rights of the everyday people.

[Curmudgeon]

<<<My entire point is unions are mostly a good thing.>>>
Why is it that WNY, with some of the highest per-capita union membership in the USA, constantly comes out on the bottom of so many metrics of economic growth and prosperity? It would seem that WNY would be a "workers paradise" with all these unions "helping" everyone... A good thing for who? Not me.

<<<As a city resident, I am happy with the increased response time and the less I have to pay for it.>>>
Prior to the "Agreement" you were geting really, really screwed over by your police department. Now, are only getting somewhat reallly screwed over. Congradulations.

<<<Americans today are unskilled, especially single moms ...>>>
Lesson one - get an education and don't have kids until you are ready. There are penalties in life for bad chioces. There's no reason why Sally ******* should make more than she's worth just because somebody felt sorry for her.


<<<...it is almost impossible to get a "living" wage in america today>>>
I'm not in a union - I get a good wage and it wasn't impossible...

Bla bla bla..... Help us - we're so defenseless against the evil corporations!!!!

[Curmudgeon]

the above alleged curseword was fairly benign...

it was D+U+M+B+A+S+S ...

I hope no one was offended. Try to parse that mess, automated "curse word removal tool" :)

[WNYresident]

I"m gonna tell that you used a naughty word! And if the word union steward comes forward we'll filter him out too :)~

[morphinebrian]

"Lesson one - get an education and don't have kids until you are ready. There are penalties in life for bad chioces. There's no reason why Sally ******* should make more than she's worth just because somebody felt sorry for her."

thats all great if your just punishing sally, but your also punishing a kid. What happens to that kid? Don't give me that pull yourself up from the bootstraps crap, because it just doesn't work like that anymore. There are penalties in life for bad choices, but choosing to raise a child isn't one of them. Maybe it would be better if she got an abortion instead?

[Unregistered]

Don't get to the abortion issue here. I thought this site is to help WNY and we are getting off topic. I have been visiting this site for the last 2 weeks and been seeing excellent points being made.

as for "thats all great if your just punishing sally, but your also punishing a kid. "

Life is tough. There are millions of children on earth that need help and there always will be. You can't help all of them. I would say allow the non-profits that get donations from people and companies do that work. Let the goverment protect us from invaders. Thats about it. Anytime goverment gets involved in a project it's many times more expensive than it should be.

F

[Curmudgeon]

<<<thats all great if your just punishing sally, but your also punishing a kid. >>>

that's what they said in NJ when they implemented thir welfare reform program in around 97... They said no more extra money if you have more kids. Funny thing happened - next year the welfare-mom birthrate dropped 24%......

Stop using your kids as a crutch to get more than you deserve out of society.

[WNYresident]

Remeber there are cases where the mother-mom thing could be from a rape, not just screwing around. I dont have too much of an issue helping the kids. It's the parents that continuely make more babies that can't be help seeing we are enabling them to continue thier ways.

[Unregistered]

thats still 76% of the parents that are still having a kid in spite of having less money.
not to mention about gender equality. the single parent still has to raise a kid, which hampers there carreer options for the rest of there life. the other parent, usually the father, meanwhile can glide by paying a check every month, and is able to go on with there carreer. they would be able to devote more time to there carreer, school, whatever you want, and be able to be better off for it. meanwhile, the mother is just struggling to make sure they can get off of work while there kid has the flu.
any system is going to have costs/benefits. we should chose the morally superior one over the economically superior one.

[sbGUY27]

Just because someone have weak morals dosen't mean I should have to pay for it.

Admin should start giving IQ tests as a registration requirement.

We have tried morally and failed in solving the problem. Just created new ones and made it worse because free money is better than actually working for it. Take you save the world attitude and you pay for all the lazy ignorant people out there ,because I don't want to.

[morphinebrian]

whos fault is it that there are only low paying jobs out there that welfare is better? maybe if minimum wage resembles a living wage, we wouldn't have this problem. maybe its not the high welfare costs that are the problem, but the low wage that cause people to be on welfare.

i'd rather be paying for that kid now than years 18 to life in prison. don't imply either that people who have low paying jobs or lazy and ignorant...it just shows how out of touch you are. so why don't you take your F- everyone else attitude and shove it.

[WNYresident]

Minimum wage is a living wage. It's the everything ingeneral is out of proportion. THey use the excuse to raise min so people can live better. How about lowering electric bills, gas, taxes instead? They won't seeing they all profit from it. See everyone wants more, if teachers didn't want more then school taxes would be lower, if unions didn't want more then some products would be cheaper, if developers didn't want sprawl then untilities could be cheaper, etc etc....

well if everything was a little cheaper then minumum wage would be a living wage. There are other countries where they earn far less than us and survive. They might not have thier moms driving a 4000 pound suv to soccer practice but they are happy.

[morphinebrian]

anybody earning min wage drinving around in SUVs or even are anywhere near it? NO! they don't even have reliable transportation to get them to ther work a good percentage of the time. they are the ones taking mass transit.

"if unions didn't want more then some products would be cheaper."
blame the unions, the people making the products. why don't you blame the owners of the company making millions of dollars off the stock, not lifting a finger! i realize more people own stock nowadays, about 33% I beleive but the majority of the wealth is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. but go ahead and blame the unions for everyone of your troubles.

[Curmudgeon]

well if everything was a little cheaper then minumum wage would be a living wage

Word.

That's what "rising productivity" is all about. WNYres is obviously a businessman who understands economics. Thank you.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by morphinebrian
anybody earning min wage drinving around in SUVs or even are anywhere near it? NO! they don't even have reliable transportation to get them to ther work a good percentage of the time. they are the ones taking mass transit.


I didn't mean min wage workers with SUV's. i meant people in general. I agree if you are doing min wage you are not going to have a new SUV. I worded that wrong.

I have clients that come in that have brand new SUV's but complain they can't make ends meet and can we bill them versus COD. I have clients that complain how tough it is to make a living while they are living in amherst with new McMansions, new vehicles and the taxes to go along with thier McMansion. There are a lot of people that can't live within thier budget contraints. YES, I know it's impossible to budget on min wage that wasn't what i was getting at.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by morphinebrian

"if unions didn't want more then some products would be cheaper."
blame the unions, the people making the products. why don't you blame the owners of the company making millions of dollars off the stock, not lifting a finger! i realize more people own stock nowadays, about 33% I beleive but the majority of the wealth is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. but go ahead and blame the unions for everyone of your troubles.


Unions to a point are a part of the problem. In other countries they don't have unions and that's why you see peole working for next to nothing. IT's called life. People have to realize the USA isn't the only country in the world and we need to stay competative. We could all get paid $50 an hour but if the products we make are 5 times more costly that everywehre else on earth, ain't no one gonna buy them. It's just how it works

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by Curmudgeon
well if everything was a little cheaper then minumum wage would be a living wage

Word.

That's what "rising productivity" is all about. WNYres is obviously a businessman who understands economics. Thank you.

'
I am a businessman and never realize how smart i was ingeneral until i started to read what was going on in WNY. I might of not made $500,000,000 but all in all i survived in the most competative industry there is. Now i make a respectable living and i'm getting tired of the goverment econimics making my respectable income worth less and less.

Who ever would think a gas bill would be over $200 to heat your home? or electric at the rate it is! It's called BS.

We have to build a bridge/Dam. We know hte profits are there seeing we see the bonuses and money they are making. So waht if it's $200,000,000 to make one it will pay for itself. Screw giving money to connected corprations or sports teams. If we built one and pumped it right into the grid with only payroll and nohting more to pay for (plus the building cost) we could have lower cost electric. So what if we put NImo out of business, it's called competition. Don't you agree?

[Curmudgeon]

you are NOT ALLOWED TO GENERATE ELECTRICITY AND SELL IT to anyone in NYS. You can't even put up solar panels on your roof and sell your excess wattage to your next-door neighbor. You would be committing a CRIME.

Sad to say, but I think a lot of us were taught as kids that free-market economics is a dangerous thing that should restrained as much as possible by the govt and unions. That's why we are in the state we're in now.

[WNYresident]

you are NOT ALLOWED TO GENERATE ELECTRICITY AND SELL IT to anyone in NYS. You can't even put up solar panels on your roof and sell your excess wattage to your next-door neighbor. You would be committing a CRIME.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Depends who's opinion you ask. If that's a crime then they better start explaining some of the crap (government) they are getting away with. I thought monopolys were not allowed?

[Devils Advocate]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Dan Ward a "less then capable" Amherst Town supervisor who put into motion alot of the problems that town faces today? I voted for neither. They both should hang it up and we as voters should just not vote for EITHER and that will hopefully force some change into this stagnant area.

[WNYresident]

it's sad when you really don't know who to vote for. THey don't realize the importance they have seeing it's changing the way of life for all the residents that live in an area. One stupid decision is paid by the residents, usually not the politician. They go on thier merry way with thier paycheck and beni's.

[Unregistered]

Someone posted somewhere else on this board that Dan Ward caused some of the issues that are in Amherst now. Would they fill us in a little?

[morphinebrian]

"Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Dan Ward a "less then capable" Amherst Town supervisor who put into motion alot of the problems that town faces today?"

any examples???

[WNYresident]

Yes, if you are going to state something give us the facts! What do you think you are? a politician?

:)

[Devils Advocate]

Dan Ward was Town supervisor from 1989 to 1993. He was the one who beat out Jack Sharpe and then lost to the guy who resigned (I can't remember his name but he was the supervisor Grelick took over for). He was the supervisor who rubber stamped much of the development in the North Amherst and Getzville area where the "sinking" problems are along with the rampant tax abatements given to corporations who moved to Amherst from other locales. Look at facts, He's no different then Giambra people, look at the history.

[WNYresident]

Do politicians rubber stamp all items seeing it gives them a false sense of accomplishment?

[morphinebrian]

how exactly does rubberstamping those projects show that he is the cause. were these problems (the sinking) shown as a possibility beforehand? how do other town supervisors handle housing projects and how does dan ward differ from them? is it a case of bad timing or is he to blame for it through corruption or negligence?

[Devil's Advocate]

I said Dan Ward is PART of the reason things are like they are. The soil samples were taken in 1979. Jack Sharpe knew about them and so did Ward because there was a problem of a colapse while the contractors were digging foundations in 1988 in the Getzville area (Mallard court area) and Dandy Dan was the one who was the "advocate" for the new residents to make sure they knew what happened. Turns out the report said it was only a foundation collapse due to poor shoring on the contractors part but now that you think about it it's a little stinky. Dan Ward knew.

[morphinebrian]

who was responsible for the report? why do you claim he knew. is it possible dan ward thought it was due to poor shoring on the contractors part? i know if someone was to put a technical report in front of me like that, i would have no idea what any of it means.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't know who knew what and when they knew it but I do know that you, I, and everyone else will never know who knew what and when they knew it....

Try saying that three times fast!

Seriously, this is a cover-up that will probably never be "uncovered" due to the fact that there probably aren't any "smoking-gun" documents that will ever be found. It's doubtful you'll ever find a memo that says "we have a problem, how are we going to consipre to cover this up?". It all boils down to learned interpretations of technical geology reports.


And tha's a bad thing. Sorry, better luck next time...

[Anonymous1Music]

cooooooooool...

[WNYresident]

Lookie at that completely unbias poll. All random readers not voting for a political lifer. Has dan be a political lifer also? or does he have a real job other than running for office?

[sbGUY27]

Who cares about Dan. If people want to be sheep let them vote for him. His whole campagin has been saying the opposite of Giambra.


dannnnn dannnnn, sheep, follow the status quooooooo

[WNYresident]

Sad part is niether one is any good. Dan might be better seeing he might keep an eye on hte employees better though.

[Curmudgeon]

Dan might be better seeing he might keep an eye on hte employees better though.

And we can be sure he will be busy, because we can assume that we won't get rid of any civil service employees and he might even try to hire more!

[WNYresident]

Why can't we fine a politician that is in the middle.... NOT all republican or Democrate. :) Someone for the residents of the county... not thier pockets or the unions.

[sbGUY27]

There will never be a middle of the road politician. These politicians will be branded as soft in their belifes and painted as waivering on the important issues.

I am no ditto head but Rush is right about that. Seen it done many times in all form of politics.

[WNYresident]

We need a politician for the people. Not the unions, not the developers, and certianly not for everyone that thinks they deserve a handout.

Lately I have been reading up on who we have running WNY and I dont see people that ring out "qualified". It's mostly the same ol crap over and over.. :)

[Surfing USA]

Now that I've had some time to think about it, I'd have to say Dan Ward would be the better candidate. :D