Joe Paterno Passes Away

[dgrzeb]

This time, the media got it right, Mr. Penn State did finally pass away, a broken man, at age 85. Many, MANY blame him personally for the sex scandal that has rocked Penn State, but here was a 85 year old man, fighting the battle of his life, sickly the last few years, & they lambasted him & couldn't even let him finish coaching the last game. Newt's right, this media sucks big time, they play judge & jury, depicting folks as guilty before proven so, isn't this the great country where one is innocent until proven guilty? I know it's not this way, the elite, those living in Ivory Towers decide people's fates, long before the jury ever sits down, sadly JoPa, was a man of honor, NEVER proven gulity of anything, damn the media, couldn't even give him the justice he deserved, let him live with the integrity he eschewed....

[Yankeefan2009]

This time, the media got it right, Mr. Penn State did finally pass away, a broken man, at age 85. Many, MANY blame him personally for the sex scandal that has rocked Penn State, but here was a 85 year old man, fighting the battle of his life, sickly the last few years, & they lambasted him & couldn't even let him finish coaching the last game. Newt's right, this media sucks big time, they play judge & jury, depicting folks as guilty before proven so, isn't this the great country where one is innocent until proven guilty? I know it's not this way, the elite, those living in Ivory Towers decide people's fates, long before the jury ever sits down, sadly JoPa, was a man of honor, NEVER proven gulity of anything, damn the media, couldn't even give him the justice he deserved, let him live with the integrity he eschewed....

If he was gay or a minority, the liberal media probably would have given him a pass. But alas.

RIP Joe Pa

[HipKat]

If he was gay or a minority, the liberal media probably would have given him a pass. But alas.

RIP Joe Pa

What a sad life you must live...

[dgrzeb]

What a sad life you must live...Yankee is right, if he was Muslim he'd of gotten no scrutiny, our media doesn't report news, they create it, they're also our court system, sad....

[Frank Broughton]

What a sad life you must live...

No the truth is just hard to swallow some times. Yankeefan speaks the truth,

[HipKat]

There's a time and a place. Can people just honor the man, or do anything for that matter, without putting some political/media spin on it?

[dgrzeb]

There's a time and a place. Can people just honor the man, or do anything for that matter, without putting some political/media spin on it? This "media" SCREWED this poor msn the final months of his good life! JoPa helped many a kid to a better life, yet this media broke his heart, his spirit, he did NOTHING wrong, I've been backing him through all of this, this media was still ripping him two weeks ago, "karma", they'll get there's, God bless JoPa's family & loved ones around the world!!

[buffy]

So, are you saying we should not believe everything we read as front page news?

[dgrzeb]

So, are you saying we should not believe everything we read as front page news? Buffy, you are being faceticious, right? I personally believe NONE of what I read or hear from 90% of the media....

[Mindcrime]

He dropped the ball* on reporting a vicious crime against a child. Dying doesn't absolve him of that fact.

*pun intended

[dgrzeb]

He dropped the ball* on reporting a vicious crime against a child. Dying doesn't absolve him of that fact.

*pun intended Last I checked, one is innocent until proven guilty in this country (quite a laugh there too!), Paterno wasn't proven to had done anything wrong, ALL heresay & that's all, the media buried him, convicted him, regardless of age or health, that's wrong! !

[buffy]

Buffy, you are being faceticious, right? I personally believe NONE of what I read or hear from 90% of the media....
Well That went right over your head. i was being a wise ass. did you not get today's newspaper on purpose?

[dgrzeb]

Well That went right over your head. i was being a wise ass. did you not get today's newspaper on purpose? I'm sorry Buffy, I very seldom read the trashy newspaper we have here for personal reasons, so I apologize, I sincerely don't know where you're coming from?

[buffy]

I'm sorry Buffy, I very seldom read the trashy newspaper we have here for personal reasons, so I apologize, I sincerely don't know where you're coming from?
i'm sorry, but, i found it ironic that you are defending Joe Paterno for looking the other way and having the media call him out on it. that's all I'm going to say.

[Frank Broughton]

He dropped the ball* on reporting a vicious crime against a child. Dying doesn't absolve him of that fact.

*pun intended
Like you are an expert on it, you got your info from the perverted press. The ones who erroneously said he was fired, when he never was. Joe Paterno was a class act right up to his death. One of my heroes!

[dgrzeb]

i'm sorry, but, i found it ironic that you are defending Joe Paterno for looking the other way and having the media call him out on it. that's all I'm going to say. "ironic", why the irony? I guess I'm slow as I don't understand where you're coming from Buffy, my bad??

[Bringthetruth]

All Buffy , Hipkat and Mindcrime is saying is when the guy who witness Sandusky with a boy in the shower passed on the info that eventually got to Joe Paterno and Joe didn't relive Sandusky from his coaching duties, then that would be a crime that Joe probably regretted not handling differently.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Yankee is right, if he was Muslim he'd of gotten no scrutiny, our media doesn't report news, they create it, they're also our court system, sad....


If he was gay or a minority, the liberal media probably would have given him a pass. But alas.

RIP Joe Pa

Both of you are morons.

Did you actually read the court papers? I have. They were posted shortly after it all blew up.

The Ginger QB coach went to Paterno and told him what he saw and all Paterno did was pass it up the line and then remove Sandusky from the program. Several people at Penn State are to blame for what happened and Paterno is one of them.

They all thought that the football program was more important than finding the truth. If it was any other way, Paterno and the board would have done something when the incident in the showers first happened.

[dgrzeb]

We're not morons. We just know that according to the constitution, people are innocent until proven guilty. Any papers you read is from the prosecutors, not anything from the defense as they have to wait for their day in court! Paterno was NEVER charged, not because he was JoPa, but because he did nothing legally wrong,,, Read your laws, how the legal system works, or doesn't work!

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

We're not morons. We just know that according to the constitution, people are innocent until proven guilty. Any papers you read is from the prosecutors, not anything from the defense as they have to wait for their day in court! Paterno was NEVER charged, not because he was JoPa, but because he did nothing legally wrong,,, Read your laws, how the legal system works, or doesn't work!

You do not get it. The reason you do not get it is because you did not seek to fully understand the issue at hand. You are correct that Paterno broke no laws. He did just enough to ensure that. However, he was aware of the issue and did just enough to prevent himself from breaking the law.

Also, drop the BS about a day in court. If that is what was wanted this issue would have gone to the courts a long time ago. Paterno only cared about the football program and his legacy. That is it.

Even if Sandusky is proven to be innocent in the courts the fact still remains that Paterno did NOTHING outside of the bare minimum to make that day in court happen. For years after he alerted the campus police no charges happened. No day in court for the kids. You would think that a man with an ounce of integrity would follow up.

Do you know what the Ginger QB coach, who was just a GA at the time, did when he saw Sandusky in the shower with a 10 year old boy? He did not say anything to Sandusky. He did not try and stop what he saw. He left the locker room and called his daddy.

The next day, he told Paterno. Paterno passed it along to campus police and washed his hands of it. Well, he did remove Sandusky from the staff afterwards. But he did allow Sandusky to keep an office at the campus for 10+ years after he left the program.

Just what would YOU do if you THINK you witnessed a kid being molested by an adult? Would you just walk away as well? If you were Paterno would you just tell the campus police and wash your hands of the issue? Would you stay silent and not follow up on the investigation? Would you not question why Sandusky still had offices on campus for 10 years with no court hearing or charges?

The only thing I know is the mans legacy is tarnished as it should be. Every win he was so desperate to protect is meaningless now because when a true test was presented to him he failed. An EPIC FAIL at that.

I could care less if he is dead or alive because of the ACTIONS he did regarding this incident that are documented by HIS PERSONAL words in an interview. I read the documents and you have not.

[Mindcrime]

Like you are an expert on it, you got your info from the perverted press. The ones who erroneously said he was fired, when he never was. Joe Paterno was a class act right up to his death. One of my heroes!I got my info from Mike McQueary, just like Joe Paterno did. Except he didn't act on it, and admitted as much.

I'm sorry he's passed, but I don't have to deify him just because he's dead now.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

If anyone really wants to become informed on the issue at hand, here are the actual court documents:

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF

[dgrzeb]

If anyone really wants to become informed on the issue at hand, here are the actual court documents:

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF Your "link" is from the prosecutors to the grand jury, ALL the info is provided by them. The defense can't defend themselves with their evidence or witnesses until court, can't give away any of their defense issues for obvious reasons, thus your link is 100% biased, even against Sandusky, yet alone JoPa, Paterno gave his take on it, told the truth as he knew it, & DID report it to the police, it's the police's job after that, Paterno had no control after that, NO CHARGES EVER against him!! If he erred, as a 83-84 year old guy, I don't know what more you could expect from him? He was always a stand-up guy, helped hundreds of youths succeed in life, & you become God & judge this man in hindsight because you're perfect? For something he's not even guilty of, charged for, convicted for? I hope God judges you on the same "curve"....

[buffy]

He didn't report it to the police-he reported it to his superior at Penn State, and it wasn't even an "official report" as it took place at Paterno's house on a Sunday. As it turns out, the "report" went nowhere.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Your "link" is from the prosecutors to the grand jury, ALL the info is provided by them. The defense can't defend themselves with their evidence or witnesses until court, can't give away any of their defense issues for obvious reasons, thus your link is 100% biased, even against Sandusky, yet alone JoPa, Paterno gave his take on it, told the truth as he knew it, & DID report it to the police, it's the police's job after that, Paterno had no control after that, NO CHARGES EVER against him!! If he erred, as a 83-84 year old guy, I don't know what more you could expect from him? He was always a stand-up guy, helped hundreds of youths succeed in life, & you become God & judge this man in hindsight because you're perfect? For something he's not even guilty of, charged for, convicted for? I hope God judges you on the same "curve"....

You're an idiot.

The items that I am speaking about came from the testimony to the grand jury by Paterno and McQueary. I am going off what they said they did...or better put what they said they did not do. Here is the exact text:


“Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistants report at his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley, Penn State Athletic Director and Paternos immediate superior to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.”

And that is where it ends for Paterno. He made one f*cking call to Tim Curley to wash his hands of the situation. ONE F*CKING CALL to make sure he was not guilty of anything illegal.

I am not even talking about the issue of what happened with the kids. That needs to be played out in court. What I am talking about is how Paterno did NOTHING other than call the campus police in 2002 to report the issue. You would know this if you pulled your head out of the sand and read the documents.

For over <strike>10</strike> 9 years Paterno and McQueary did nothing to bring this case to the public. They knew in doing so it would blow up the PSU football program and to protect their self interests they did nothing. This is not about the court of law you twit. It is about the court of public opinion. It is how how the legacy and character of Paterno are viewed.

Paterno had an opportunity to do the right thing and he chose to take the easy route. He choose to do what was in the best interest of his football program. A better man would have done more.

If Paterno would have gone to the local police or DA and not just let the school administration deal with it...he would have been viewed differently today. He would have survived the scandal and would have never been fired. He was a weak man lacking in judgement and should be remembered as such.

[dgrzeb]

Calling me a "twit" & dropping "F" bombs just shows how small minded YOU ARE! Again, there's far more to this case, Paterno did NOTHING wrong, could have "maybe", "maybe" done more but that's not his juristriction! Also, take your head out of your you know what and realize you're only reading a link FROM the prosecutors, NOTHING from the defense, they're ALL (even Sandusky) innocent until proven guilty, he's INNOCENT as of RIGHT NOW!! Got more kindergarten names to call people to prove how superior you are of our Constitution??

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Calling me a "twit" & dropping "F" bombs just shows how small minded YOU ARE! Again, there's far more to this case, Paterno did NOTHING wrong, could have "maybe", "maybe" done more but that's not his juristriction! Also, take your head out of your you know what and realize you're only reading a link FROM the prosecutors, NOTHING from the defense, they're ALL (even Sandusky) innocent until proven guilty, he's INNOCENT as of RIGHT NOW!! Got more kindergarten names to call people to prove how superior you are of our Constitution??

I called you a twit because you are one. You keep on reverting back to the law and constitution which only makes you look like an even bigger moron. I dropped F bombs because idiots like you want to defend the name of a man who chose a football program over protecting kids.

It is not about breaking the law for McQueary or Paterno. It never was. It was about their MORAL obligation as men and humans in a society to choose children over a football program. All it boils down to is

You just do not take the easy road, let it play out or pass it along when the subject is 10 year old boys getting rapped.

Paterno and McQueary were/are weak men who think football is more important than finding the truth and protecting little boys. F*ck them for not having the courage to anything and f*ck you and any other person who defends them. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[dgrzeb]

God bless you LEFTWNY..., I know you're perfect & don't need prayers, but I pray for all the members OFSUWNY everyday. We don't agree, it does come down to the law, whether YOU like it or not, even you are innocent right now until proven guilty, we all are, thanks for the F bombs, you must be proud of your lingo...

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

God bless you LEFTWNY..., I know you're perfect & don't need prayers, but I pray for all the members OFSUWNY everyday. We don't agree, it does come down to the law, whether YOU like it or not, even you are innocent right now until proven guilty, we all are, thanks for the F bombs, you must be proud of your lingo...

You're still a moron. It has nothing to do with the law. Here is a bear for you you're the prize idiot for the day.

3656

[buffy]

You're still a moron. It has nothing to do with the law. Here is a bear for you you're the prize idiot for the day.

3656
I check out your blog. You shouldn't call other people morons creed.

[Mindcrime]

...Here is a bear for you you're the prize idiot for the day.

3656PedoBear strikes again. LOL Know Your Meme (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pedobear)

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I check out your blog. You shouldn't call other people morons creed.

Oh please tell me you're serious.

[therising]

There's a phenomena in this country right now - The fact that someone does something awful (i.e. cheat on your wife, or not report the rape of a child) matters less than the awful fact that the liberal elite media reported it.
It would be interesting to see if Hitler was around in 2012. Most of you would be criticizing the Liberal media for being so tough on him.

[Save Us]

There's a phenomena in this country right now - The fact that someone does something awful (i.e. cheat on your wife, or not report the rape of a child) matters less than the awful fact that the liberal elite media reported it.
It would be interesting to see if Hitler was around in 2012. Most of you would be criticizing the Liberal media for being so tough on him.

How did the 'liberal' media treat Paterno?

[Frank Broughton]

Both of you are morons.

Did you actually read the court papers? I have. They were posted shortly after it all blew up.

The Ginger QB coach went to Paterno and told him what he saw and all Paterno did was pass it up the line and then remove Sandusky from the program. Several people at Penn State are to blame for what happened and Paterno is one of them.

They all thought that the football program was more important than finding the truth. If it was any other way, Paterno and the board would have done something when the incident in the showers first happened.

another in the know expert, thank you for your inside information and expertise on what should be done. YOU HAVE NO IDEA! I have been in the middle of these things, one must be very careful. I am in charge of a sexual abuse prevention program. These things are not easy! Mr. Paterno did just what he was supposed to do.

[Frank Broughton]

Just what would YOU do if you THINK you witnessed a kid being molested by an adult? Would you just walk away as well? If you were Paterno would you just tell the campus police and wash your hands of the issue? Would you stay silent and not follow up on the investigation? Would you not question why Sandusky still had offices on campus for 10 years with no court hearing or charges?


You know, in San Francisco (Elmwood ave Buffalo too ) it is my understanding there are some who want this kind of thing as legal.

[dgrzeb]

There's a phenomena in this country right now - The fact that someone does something awful (i.e. cheat on your wife, or not report the rape of a child) matters less than the awful fact that the liberal elite media reported it.
It would be interesting to see if Hitler was around in 2012. Most of you would be criticizing the Liberal media for being so tough on him. We're not speculating here, what would happen? We're. Writing about what in fact did happen, Paterno AND all have been convicted thru the media without a trial, this is fact, no disclaimers that they're innocent until proven guilty, & people are naive enough to believe what they read, & that's just plain wrong....

[Frank Broughton]

I got my info from Mike McQueary, just like Joe Paterno did. Except he didn't act on it, and admitted as much.

I'm sorry he's passed, but I don't have to deify him just because he's dead now.

So you got hearsay info.... yep you are quite the expert.

[Frank Broughton]

You're an idiot.

(snip the cursing part of your post)

He choose to do what was in the best interest of his football program. A better man would have done more.

If Paterno would have gone to the local police or DA and not just let the school administration deal with it...he would have been viewed differently today. He would have survived the scandal and would have never been fired. He was a weak man lacking in judgement and should be remembered as such.

Hmmm, interesting use of word in first paragraph, it fits somehow - if all he cared about the best interest of his football program he would have done more? You kidding, he would have know that hiding anything would be way more damaging to the program later down the road. There is way more to this story that all of us will never know.

These situations are horrible, I have seen the damage with my own eyes what can happen. You sir, curse and yell all you want you have NO IDEA!

[dgrzeb]

Frank, thanks for bringing your hands on (no pun intended) expertise into this!

[Frank Broughton]

Frank, thanks for bringing your hands on (no pun intended) expertise into this!

I wish I did not have such expertise. The sadness and damage done by deviant homosexuals is sickening. I was just glad I got to see a judge sentence one to 20 plus years once. Sadly, one of his victims could not tolerant the damage done and is no longer with us. Yes, I have no doubt there is more to this story. Joe Paterno is a great man, a legend - a man of high moral character. I have no doubt that what he did was correct and proper. Those who attempt to smear him by saying this or that on a subject they have no idea about shows the opposite can be said of them, sadly.

Even a fool is considered wise when he shuts up his yap! Some need to heed that.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

\Joe Paterno is a great man, a legend - a man of high moral character. I have no doubt that what he did was correct and proper. Those who attempt to smear him by saying this or that on a subject they have no idea about shows the opposite can be said of them, sadly.

Even a fool is considered wise when he shuts up his yap! Some need to heed that.

The level or ignorance is amazing.

Have you even read the testimony from Paterno Frank? I doubt you have. You're just as pathetic as the others.

[Frank Broughton]

The level or ignorance is amazing.

Have you even read the testimony from Paterno Frank? I doubt you have. You're just as pathetic as the others.

Yes I have - your foul mouth shows what you are sir. Have you ever had to first hand deal with this subject? I have, it is not fun nor pretty, Not all can be said, there is more to this then any will ever know.

[Frank Broughton]

The level or ignorance is amazing.

You are right, were is your outrage over the 4,000 children horrifically murdered yesterday and today and tomorrow. Talk about ignorance. Were is your outrage, sir? Selected outrage to make one look like a good guy in their owns eyes is what I call pathetic.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

You are right, were is your outrage over the 4,000 children horrifically murdered yesterday and today and tomorrow. Talk about ignorance. Were is your outrage, sir? Selected outrage to make one look like a good guy in their owns eyes is what I call pathetic.

I work with ICAC units around the US guy. I do my part by providing technical assistance to the men and women in the field. You're an idiot by sticking up for an old man and the PSU administration who chose a $70M football program over children. That is a fact.

There is a reason why they cleaned house at PSU and the reason is they did not do what they should have. Standing up for the reputation of men who made that choice is shameful and disgusting.

[WNYresident]

You are right, were is your outrage over the 4,000 children horrifically murdered yesterday and today and tomorrow. Talk about ignorance. Were is your outrage, sir? Selected outrage to make one look like a good guy in their owns eyes is what I call pathetic.

Stay on topic on this thread. Two completely different issues.

[Frank Broughton]

If I use foul language and call people names is that staying on the subject?

[therising]

How did the 'liberal' media treat Paterno?

I thought they treated him fine. But, if you look at most of the posts on this thread, no one seems to have a problem with what Paterno did. I suppose that his legendary status as a football coach is greater than the fact that he put the greater good of the football program over the welfare of the boys that were being raped.

How would any of us feel if our own children were in that circumstance?

[therising]

We're not speculating here, what would happen? We're. Writing about what in fact did happen, Paterno AND all have been convicted thru the media without a trial, this is fact, no disclaimers that they're innocent until proven guilty, & people are naive enough to believe what they read, & that's just plain wrong....

Not true at all. In fact, he wasn't even up against any criminal charges.

Paterno never denied doing what he was accused of. He learned of the rape, and he simply reported it to his superiors. And, then for years, he did absolutely nothing else about it (knowing full well that it was never reported to the authorities.)

And, you're OK with that?

[therising]

Joe Paterno is a great man, a legend - a man of high moral character. I have no doubt that what he did was correct and proper. Those who attempt to smear him by saying this or that on a subject they have no idea about shows the opposite can be said of them, sadly.

Even a fool is considered wise when he shuts up his yap! Some need to heed that.

That's really weird coming from you.
The reason it's weird is because you emphatically believe that ALL Democrats are evil. Yet, when there's a man who assists in covering up repeated child molestation, you call him "a great man, a legend - a man of high moral character."

Suppose you learned that a co-worker of yours raped a young boy. Are you saying that all you would do is tell your superiors, and leave it up to them to handle? You wouldn't make sure the police were notified???

[WNYresident]

If I use foul language and call people names is that staying on the subject?

It's not ok but it is still on topic foul or not.

[Frank Broughton]

That's really weird coming from you.
The reason it's weird is because you emphatically believe that ALL Democrats are evil. Yet, when there's a man who assists in covering up repeated child molestation, you call him "a great man, a legend - a man of high moral character."

Suppose you learned that a co-worker of yours raped a young boy. Are you saying that all you would do is tell your superiors, and leave it up to them to handle? You wouldn't make sure the police were notified???

Read the rest of my posts and you would know what I would do. The ones who SEEN this happen are the ones who should be blamed. I tell you if I had witnessed what some allege they did in that grand jury statement, there would be no need of a trial. There would be no plaintiff to try.

[Frank Broughton]

It's not ok but it is still on topic foul or not.

So not okay still equals acceptable though? Interesting... I believe my comparison is valid and on topic (I confess not popular and easy for us to stick our head in the sand on), I will yield to your request though - in this thread.

[therising]

Read the rest of my posts and you would know what I would do.

Sorry, I didn't read ALL your posts, but I did see this one:


Mr. Paterno did just what he was supposed to do.
So, back to my question as to what you would do if you learned that a co-worked had been raping young boys --- I guess you would do exactly what Paterno did, i.e. tell your superiors, and not worry about whether or not it gets reported to the police.


The ones who SEEN this happen are the ones who should be blamed.
I agree that it's unfathomable that someone would actually see this happen, and not make sure the authorities were notified. However, the people who were informed of it (in this case Paterno and his bosses) have just as much moral obligation to tell the authorities.
Yet, you see Paterno as being "a great man, of great character." Don't you find that odd?


I tell you if I had witnessed what some allege they did in that grand jury statement, there would be no need of a trial. There would be no plaintiff to try.
You said plaintiff, but I think you mean defendant.
I'm supposing that you would just make the person disappear. I can't say I blame you.

[FisherRd]

Paterno got off lucky by dying so soon after the scandal was uncovered. I wish the scandal would have broke sooner so he could have lived longer with the shame of knowing that his true character was revealed to all.
Sure, there would still be some idiots around claiming he was a good man, but everyone knows that the people defending a child rape enabler are dumber than a sack of rocks.

What did Paterno do when he saw Sandusky and little boys hanging out on Campus? Was paterno concerned that Sandusky was bringing little boys to the locker-room, weight room, etc for child rape play dates?
I wish there was a hell for you to rot in, Paterno, you sick bastard.

[WNYresident]

I agree that it's unfathomable that someone would actually see this happen, and not make sure the authorities were notified. However, the people who were informed of it (in this case Paterno and his bosses) have just as much moral obligation to tell the authorities.
Yet, you see Paterno as being "a great man, of great character." Don't you find that odd?

You betcha....

Authorities should have been notified period. To say "I'm off the hook" because I notified my boss doesn't cut it.

[Frank Broughton]

Yet, you see Paterno as being "a great man, of great character." Don't you find that odd?

You said plaintiff, but I think you mean defendant.
I'm supposing that you would just make the person disappear. I can't say I blame you.

Yes, I do admit I find that odd. Opps big mistake I made, of course I meant defendant. Too many tabs open here, researching Disc Golf discs right now...

[therising]

Yes, I do admit I find that odd. Opps big mistake I made, of course I meant defendant. Too many tabs open here, researching Disc Golf discs right now...

The mistake wasn't the issue. The issue is that you think Paterno did the right thing, is a great man, and a man of great character.

Since you've said that he did the right thing, I have to assume that you would do the same as Paterno if you were in his position.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

You betcha....

Authorities should have been notified period. To say "I'm off the hook" because I notified my boss doesn't cut it.

The problem is some people want to comment on the situation do not want to bother reading the court transcripts. They do not understand what was done, or better said, not done.

[dgrzeb]

JoPa was never a defendant, was never charged with ANYTHING, was he perfect? No, who here is? Were there potential ramifications for him if wrong? Possibly. JoPa helped FAR MORE youths then this entire forum, he brought kids from diverse, indigent areas, & helped them via his "gift", an excellent football coach. He changed many lives for the better, was a good man, again, like ALL of us here, not perfect, but I still think his legacy of helping, will far outweigh what all here who condemn him without a trial.... There's an old scripture, states "for ALL have sinned & fall short of the Glory of God", but someone here in their blog, uses the "F" bomb & Jesus in the same "heading", yet you judge another man who was never accused? I'm not 75-85 years old, I don't know how I would react, I may be afraid, I may tell the authorities (he did), I may be in denial ? But right now, I honor him, I don't worship him, I only hope ALL here live up to the perfectionist standards they set for others!

[Mindcrime]

So you got hearsay info.... yep you are quite the expert.A) I never claimed to be an expert. and B) And since when are eye witness accounts on par with hearsay?

[atotaltotalfan2001]

I'm sorry Buffy, I very seldom read the trashy newspaper we have here for personal reasons, so I apologize, I sincerely don't know where you're coming from? Where do you get your news? I ask because when people don't read newspapers, either the newstand stuff or online, I wonder how they get impartial "facts" about current events and balanced reporting.

[dgrzeb]

Where do you get your news? I ask because when people don't read newspapers, either the newstand stuff or online, I wonder how they get impartial "facts" about current events and balanced reporting. The Internet, Yahoo & Google let you customize your page with some local news, but national is Internet, or blogs, or right here on SUWNY, many current, breaking news is here quickly, plus it's usually fair & balanced...

[therising]

JoPa was never a defendant, was never charged with ANYTHING

I'm very aware of that. And, that is why I was questioning you when you said this:


Paterno AND all have been convicted thru the media without a trial, this is fact, no disclaimers that they're innocent until proven guilty, & people are naive enough to believe what they read, & that's just plain wrong....


JoPa helped FAR MORE youths then this entire forum, he brought kids from diverse, indigent areas, & helped them via his "gift", an excellent football coach. He changed many lives for the better, was a good man, again, like ALL of us here, not perfect, but I still think his legacy of helping, will far outweigh what all here who condemn him without a trial....

I'm sure he probably did held a lot of youths over the years, and he probably was a good man. But, that doesn't negate what he did - he knew his friend was raping boys, and he didn't do enough to stop it.


But right now, I honor him, I don't worship him, I only hope ALL here live up to the perfectionist standards they set for others!
"Perfectionist standards?" Are you serious?
I don't expect anyone to be anywhere near perfect. But, I do expect them to call the police when young people are being raped. You that maybe my expectations are too high?

[Frank Broughton]

The problem is some people want to comment on the situation do not want to bother reading the court transcripts. They do not understand what was done, or better said, not done.

I read them. Tough to read but I did. It brought back some memories I care to forget.

I admit, as Mr Paterno did, that he should have done more. He should have followed up. Does that destroy the mountain of good he did for other people?

[Frank Broughton]

- he knew his friend was raping boys, and he didn't do enough to stop it.

Objection, facts not in evidence.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I admit, as Mr Paterno did, that he should have done more. He should have followed up. Does that destroy the mountain of good he did for other people?

Yes it does.

[dgrzeb]

I'm very aware of that. And, that is why I was questioning you when you said this:




I'm sure he probably did held a lot of youths over the years, and he probably was a good man. But, that doesn't negate what he did - he knew his friend was raping boys, and he didn't do enough to stop it.

"Perfectionist standards?" Are you serious?
I don't expect anyone to be anywhere near perfect. But, I do expect them to call the police when young people are being raped. You that maybe my expectations are too high? rising, the media has (& many here?) painted JoPa as a dark villain, without knowing facts, transcripts aren't truths, they're one sided, JoPa, though never charged with anything, did at the time what he thought was right, looking back in retrospect, we all would do things different, but he did exactly what he was responsible to do, he notified the campus police, from there, the ball was dropped, but to vilify him? People here think thery ALWAYS would do what the other didn't, you don't know what you'd of done? Maybe now, after seeing him convicted in the press of being a bad person, you may do more, but you may not have done anything different either, YOU DON'T KNOW!! Period! He acted upon hearsay, he wasn't qualified to investigate, the campus police should have taken his words to authorities, not JoPa, he was a football coach, not to police, prosecutor, or chief bottle washer. You just like to argue for arguments sake, you know he was a good man, an elderly man at that, whether 75 or 85, or 55, you do not know what you would have done. I hope I would have done at least what he did, there was no coverup by him, yet the perfectionists here who live perfect lives lambaste him into oblivion without knowing the facts. I hate to tell you this also, even at this very time, Sandusky is still innocent, or do you still believe our system is wrong & he should go straight to jail? I think you are expecting that JoPa had to be perfect, because you are, believing you're never wrong.... People just are naive enough to believe what they read in the press or on the TV news, most of it is BS, jumping the gun, acting like judges & juries, we still have a court system here, we all, even you, I, or JoPa deserved his day in court, but he wasn't getting his day in court, because he did NOTHING WRONG! One does what he can with hearsay, as he did, then let the professionals act on it.....

[FisherRd]

Yes it does.

I still can't believe that needs to even be stated. The man allowed a pedophile to use the PSU football program as a kiddie rape factory. JoPa was PSU, if he wanted something, he got it. If he didn't like something, it wasn't happening on Penn State's campus. He told his bosses what time it was, not the other way around.

He felt the program was more important than stopping kiddie rape. The saddest part about Paterno's passing is that it was too soon after his outing. I wish he was able to see more of the shame being thrown his way.

[therising]

I admit, as Mr Paterno did, that he should have done more. He should have followed up. Does that destroy the mountain of good he did for other people?

Actually, yeah it does.

The thing I find most peculiar is that you stated that you're in charge of some kind of sexual abuse program. And, you think Paterno did the right thing. So, if someone in your organization was to come to you, and say "I saw Mr X raping a young boy in the shower," you are telling us that all you would do is tell your boss - and you would allow him to decide whether or not to report it to the police.

[therising]

rising, the media has (& many here?) painted JoPa as a dark villain, without knowing facts, transcripts aren't truths, they're one sided, JoPa, though never charged with anything, did at the time what he thought was right, looking back in retrospect, we all would do things different, but he did exactly what he was responsible to do, he notified the campus police, from there, the ball was dropped, but to vilify him?

It's unfathomable to me that anyone would be OK with that. Yes, he did "what he was responsible to do" legally. But, certainly not morally. Yet, it seems you disagree.


He acted upon hearsay, he wasn't qualified to investigate, the campus police should have taken his words to authorities, not JoPa, he was a football coach, not to police, prosecutor, or chief bottle washer.

Hearsay? When one coworker X comes to you, and says "I saw coworker Y ****ing a young boy in the shower," you're saying that you would treat it as hearsay? Someone sees a young buy get raped, and it's just hearsay????


You just like to argue for arguments sake
Sometimes. yes. In this case, absolutely not.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

The Internet, Yahoo & Google let you customize your page with some local news, but national is Internet, or blogs, or right here on SUWNY, many current, breaking news is here quickly, plus it's usually fair & balanced...

True, but most of that stuff is culled from newspapers, especially local new. I'm just saying...

[WNYresident]

Should have been reported to the police immediately. Period. I can't see any justification for him not to follow up with it after he was told what was seen. Anyone can say he helped 100's of kids which he did... But he also allowed the possibility of dozens of other kids to be molested. Sometimes you need to follow thru until the end. There are also instances where you can't say the good someone did out weights the bad they did. This was not a victimless crime.

[dgrzeb]

True, but most of that stuff is culled from newspapers, especially local new. I'm just saying... What I'm saying is I don't read the local rag they call a newspaper...

[dgrzeb]

Should have been reported to the police immediately. Period. I can't see any justification for him not to follow up with it after he was told what was seen. Anyone can say he helped 100's of kids which he did... But he also allowed the possibility of dozens of other kids to be molested. Sometimes you need to follow thru until the end. There are also instances where you can't say the good someone did out weights the bad they did. This was not a victimless crime. You don't know all the circumstances either, don't know how you'd react, oh sure, easy to state in hindsight, but you DO NOT know the facts! One fact is this: Even Sandusky is INNOCENT at this time, no trial has taken place, thus, if Sandusky is innocent right now (HE IS AS PER OUR SYSTEM!), how can JoPa be judged of doing wrong? You judge without due process, I hope something similar happens to you, you'll see & feel how it is to be convicted via the media without due process.....

[Frank Broughton]

he notified the campus police,

I do not think this is accurate...

[Frank Broughton]

The man allowed a pedophile to use the PSU football program as a kiddie rape factory.

Objection, facts not in evidence.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

You don't know all the circumstances either, don't know how you'd react, oh sure, easy to state in hindsight, but you DO NOT know the facts! One fact is this: Even Sandusky is INNOCENT at this time, no trial has taken place, thus, if Sandusky is innocent right now (HE IS AS PER OUR SYSTEM!), how can JoPa be judged of doing wrong? You judge without due process, I hope something similar happens to you, you'll see & feel how it is to be convicted via the media without due process.....

I must say your resilience on such a stupid position is impressive.

[therising]

One fact is this: Even Sandusky is INNOCENT at this time, no trial has taken place, thus, if Sandusky is innocent right now (HE IS AS PER OUR SYSTEM!), how can JoPa be judged of doing wrong? You judge without due process, I hope something similar happens to you, you'll see & feel how it is to be convicted via the media without due process.....

You're right in that Sandusky is innocent until proven guilty.
But the Paterno matter is something entirely different - he hasn't denied that he was told about the event. So, he IS guilty of using horrifically bad judgment. Even if Sandusky winds up being innocent, Paterno is still guilty.

[Frank Broughton]

Actually, yeah it does.

The thing I find most peculiar is that you stated that you're in charge of some kind of sexual abuse program. And, you think Paterno did the right thing. So, if someone in your organization was to come to you, and say "I saw Mr X raping a young boy in the shower," you are telling us that all you would do is tell your boss - and you would allow him to decide whether or not to report it to the police.

Of course if that was brought to me as that I would not hesitate to report it (and maybe even more depending on who the kid was), but the evidence is that it was not brought to Mr. Paterno as that. The rising, I have first hand experience with a case that netted a man in prison for a long time. I care not to talk too many details about it. I will say that deviant homosexuals are some of the sickest people on earth. The damage they do is indescribable. Some victims even commit suicide and that was the case with the one I dealt with. The lowest hell is too good for what these sick deviant homosexuals do to young boys. I would not hesitate and I am on the look out! But that is I, I am not Joe Paterno.

[Frank Broughton]

Should have been reported to the police immediately. Period. I can't see any justification for him not to follow up with it after he was told what was seen. Anyone can say he helped 100's of kids which he did... But he also allowed the possibility of dozens of other kids to be molested. Sometimes you need to follow thru until the end. There are also instances where you can't say the good someone did out weights the bad they did. This was not a victimless crime.

I agree, but this is assuming what he was told.

[therising]

Objection, facts not in evidence.

You're looking at this is a criminal case - that's one of your biggest mistakes.

What you're telling us is that if a coworker of yours came to you, and said "I just saw another coworker raping a 10 year-old boy," that you would not call the police.

And you can rest well?

[Frank Broughton]

I hope something similar happens to you, you'll see & feel how it is to be convicted via the media without due process.....

I really do not think you mean that!

[therising]

I agree, but this is assuming what he was told.

Paterno testified that Mike McQueary did tell him he saw Sandusky having sex with a young boy. That has never been the issue.
You are giving him the benefit of the doubt for something which he has freely admitted.

[Frank Broughton]

You're looking at this is a criminal case - that's one of your biggest mistakes.

What you're telling us is that if a coworker of yours came to you, and said "I just saw another coworker raping a 10 year-old boy," that you would not call the police.

And you can rest well?

You miss what I am saying, I just said it in several posts just now. Joe Paterno was not told that a boy was being raped.

I answered the question already:

Of course if that was brought to me as that I would not hesitate to report it (and maybe even more depending on who the kid was), but the evidence is that it was not brought to Mr. Paterno as that. The rising, I have first hand experience with a case that netted a man in prison for a long time. I care not to talk too many details about it. I will say that deviant homosexuals are some of the sickest people on earth. The damage they do is indescribable. Some victims even commit suicide and that was the case with the one I dealt with. The lowest hell is too good for what these sick deviant homosexuals do to young boys. I would not hesitate and I am on the look out! But that is I, I am not Joe Paterno.

[WNYresident]

You don't know all the circumstances either, don't know how you'd react, oh sure, easy to state in hindsight, but you DO NOT know the facts! One fact is this: Even Sandusky is INNOCENT at this time, no trial has taken place, thus, if Sandusky is innocent right now (HE IS AS PER OUR SYSTEM!), how can JoPa be judged of doing wrong? You judge without due process, I hope something similar happens to you, you'll see & feel how it is to be convicted via the media without due process.....

If I was told by someone who was not a fibber that they saw so and so molesting a kid in the shower it would most definitely be looked into. I know exactly how i would react. If it was two adults fooling around it's one thing. If it's an adult with a kid it is completely different.

JoPa technically did not molest kids. No one is saying he did. This is one of those moral judgement calls.

[dgrzeb]

If I was told by someone who was not a fibber that they saw so and so molesting a kid in the shower it would most definitely be looked into. I know exactly how i would react. If it was two adults fooling around it's one thing. If it's an adult with a kid it is completely different.

JoPa technically did not molest kids. No one is saying he did. This is one of those moral judgement calls. ....& you're the one who decides who's moral & who's not?

[therising]

You miss what I am saying, I just said it in several posts just now. Joe Paterno was not told that a boy was being raped.


I'm surprised that you would think that, considering that I think that you had earlier said that you read the court transcripts. To refreshen your memory:


Q: Without getting into any graphic detail, what did Mr. McQueary tell you he had seen and where?

Mr. Paterno: Well, he had seen a person, an older — not an older, but a mature person who was fondling, whatever you might call it — I’m not sure what the term would be — a young boy.

Q: Did he identify who that older person was?

Mr. Paterno: Yes, a man by the name of Jerry Sandusky who had been one of our coaches, was not at the time.

Q: You’re saying that at the time this incident was reported to you, Sandusky was no longer a coach?
Mr. Paterno: No, he had retired voluntarily. I’m not sure exactly the year, but I think it was either ‘98 or ‘99.

Q: I think you used the term fondling. Is that the term that you used?

Mr. Paterno: Well, I don’t know what you would call it. Obviously, he was doing something with the youngster.

It was a sexual nature. I’m not sure exactly what it was.

I didn’t push Mike to describe exactly what it was because he was very upset. Obviously, I was in a little bit of a dilemma since Mr. Sandusky was not working for me anymore.

So I told — I didn’t go any further than that except I knew Mike was upset and I knew some kind of inappropriate action was being taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster.

Q: Did Mike McQueary tell you where he had seen this inappropriate conduct take place?

Mr. Paterno: In the shower.

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/transcript-joe-paterno-grand-jury-testimony-29933

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I agree, but this is assuming what he was told.

Are you freaking serious?

Under oath he said that he was told and gave details as to what his actions were. Those actions were to simply tell his AD about the incident.

Man are you ignorant.

[dgrzeb]

I really do not think you mean that!....you're right Frank, I don't mean a molesting or sexual abuse, I meant being accused erroneously & convicted without trial via the press & media! If anyone here has ever been thru that, they'd understand, no, I'm sorry, I wish nothing bad on anyone, I repent of that, but again, they'd see this entire issue clearer, especially that NO ONE, NO MAN, has the right to judge JoPa's actions, reactions, or no actions. If he did wrong, he would have been charged, he wasn't, cause he did no wrong! Any one here who states "I would have done this...!" is full of it as you don't know how you'd react! Now that you see what has happened to Paterno, you may do more, but before all of this, you don't know!

[Frank Broughton]

Are you freaking serious?

Under oath he said that he was told and gave details as to what his actions were. Those actions were to simply tell his AD about the incident.

Man are you ignorant.

You know there are ways to discuss things, and your way of personal denigrating is an ignorant one, grow up pal!

[Frank Broughton]

Therising here is an interesting article:

Man, this forum will not let me post the link, I keep getting a forbidden error!

The article in on espn and is titled: No easy answers for Mike McQueary

part of the article:

Last week, Paterno issued a statement that acknowledged McQueary came to him with information about Sandusky, but that it didn't include graphic details of what McQueary said took place in the shower. In their grand jury testimony, athletic director Tim Curley and administrator Gary Schultz raised similar points. And Sandusky has denied the allegations, saying he merely "horsed around" with boys and never had any interactions of a sexual nature. In an interview with NBC on Monday night, Sandusky called McQueary's allegations "false." His lawyer added, "What McQueary said he saw, we have information that says that never happened."

So who should we believe?


Numerous attempts to reach McQueary for this story went unreturned. In addition, many of those close to him declined to comment. In a brief interview with ESPN.com last week, McQueary's father, John, hinted there was more to the story than what had been reported. It is not unusual for a grand jury to leave certain details of its investigation out of its report.


All I am saying there is not enough evidence YET to denigrate Joe Paterno.

[dgrzeb]

You're right in that Sandusky is innocent until proven guilty.
But the Paterno matter is something entirely different - he hasn't denied that he was told about the event. So, he IS guilty of using horrifically bad judgment. Even if Sandusky winds up being innocent, Paterno is still guilty. Even if Sandusky is found innocent, Paterno is still guilty? Where do you hide your "SS" tattoo? I'm glad we have outstanding citizens who are our peers deciding people's fates! Paterno was INNOCENT of ANY WRONG DOING IN LIFE, as he is in death. Sandusky's going to go to trial, JoPa's loved ones, the folks that matter, will, as I, hold him with respect, not some "guilty" person because it's alleged he made a horrendous "judgement" call... He's not on trial....

[dgrzeb]

I must say your resilience on such a stupid position is impressive. It's not resilience, it's even more then "IMHO", it's truth, I don't judge what JoPa did, as I believe he did what he had to at the time, in hindsight, he may have reacted different, as we all wish we could live and have "do-overs" or "mulligans", but we don't, but to say Paterno's guilty even if Sandusky is found innocent is balderdash, malice, ludicrous, please.... BTW, I respect your position, I don't drop "F" bombs or call it stupid, Gestapo-like, yes... Thank God this is America, where the people who matter, his family, loved ones, the folks living in the PennState area have all come out in support of him, not people here, who have no idea!!

[therising]

Even if Sandusky is found innocent, Paterno is still guilty? Where do you hide your "SS" tattoo? I'm glad we have outstanding citizens who are our peers deciding people's fates! Paterno was INNOCENT of ANY WRONG DOING IN LIFE, as he is in death. Sandusky's going to go to trial, JoPa's loved ones, the folks that matter, will, as I, hold him with respect, not some "guilty" person because it's alleged he made a horrendous "judgement" call... He's not on trial....

Whether or not Sandusky actually raped the boy(s) is irrelevant to Paterno's actions. He was told by a trusted co-worked that Sandusky did so.
If a trusted co-worker told you, that he had seen another co-worker rape a boy in the shower, wouldn't you make sure the police were involved?? Or, would you just fulfill your legal obligations, and tell your supervisor?

[dgrzeb]

Whether or not Sandusky actually raped the boy(s) is irrelevant to Paterno's actions. He was told by a trusted co-worked that Sandusky did so.
If a trusted co-worker told you, that he had seen another co-worker rape a boy in the shower, wouldn't you make sure the police were involved?? Or, would you just fulfill your legal obligations, and tell your supervisor? Sorry, but what JoPa was told about Sandusky, was relevant, he knew both the accuser & the accused. If someone told me this happened, it's hearsay, I would tell my supervisor, he has the expertise to report it or start an investigation, get it to the proper authorities, not my area of expertise or pay scale, especially if hearsay, how do I, ME, judge who's right or wrong? YOU wrote, without ALL the facts that Paterno is guilty, regardless of whether Sandusky is acquitted or not? Huh? (as a side note, I believe Frank knows that if you directly report to the police, going over your superior's heads, & are wrong, you're libel for ruining someone's life, or could be fired yourself....? Frank would know this better then I, he's probably dealt with this himself?) NOW, after seeing this, what's happened to Paterno, even before Paterno, if I seen a grown man molesting a young boy, would probably freeze at first, in disbelief, then I would take physical action, trying my best to stop the assault, why this "witness", who has changed his testimony already(why?) didn't take action, he's the one you can lambaste, IF this actually took place? I just know, they're all INNOCENT, the media has judged them guilty, that's not how it's done here, everything you want to post is your "opinion", not fact, not truth, not until after there's a conviction..... Plus even then, JoPa did what I probably would have done, if I hesitated while actually SEEING it, I'd do what JoPa did, report it to my superiors, he wasn't Paterno's coach when this took place..... Now, please get in the last word, you always do, always have too, I'm through with this except I still do respect JoPa, always will, no matter how it turns out.... :rolleyes:

[FisherRd]

So, Sandusky ran a program for at risk youth, right? Can we safely assume he didn't rape ALL of them? Ok, let's go with that assumption. That would mean he helped out a ton of at risk youths, correct? OK, that being the case, are you going to let a few child rapes over-shadow the other good works that Sandusky performed?
Sincerely,
Frank and dgrzed

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Sorry, but what JoPa was told about Sandusky, was relevant, he knew both the accuser & the accused. If someone told me this happened, it's hearsay, I would tell my supervisor, he has the expertise to report it or start an investigation, get it to the proper authorities, not my area of expertise or pay scale, especially if hearsay, how do I, ME, judge who's right or wrong?

You're a weak man if this is how you would deal with the same situation.


YOU wrote, without ALL the facts that Paterno is guilty, regardless of whether Sandusky is acquitted or not?

Wrong. I never said Paterno was guilty. In fact...here is what I said:


You are correct that Paterno broke no laws. He did just enough to ensure that.


And that is where it ends for Paterno. He made one f*cking call to Tim Curley to wash his hands of the situation. ONE F*CKING CALL to make sure he was not guilty of anything illegal.

You keep on trying to inject the idea that people are saying Paterno broke laws. NOBODY but you fools are saying that. Paterno is guilty of making a bad choice and not correcting that bad choice over 9+ years. Period.

People also fail to grasp that in 1998 Sandusky was investigated for sexually inappropriate behavior with a boy in the showers the football team used. No charges were filed but a year later Sandusky left the program. Also to note that he was viewed to many as the heir apparent to Paterno as HC of the football team.

Now while Sandusky was never charged, those charges are something you do not forget. It is my opinion that he was removed because of the scandal but that is just my opinion.

However, when you consider those charges in 1998 AND what happened a couple years later...there is no way in hell you can say that given the information Paterno should not have done more.

Anyways, you two are not going to back down from your view even after people who NEVER agree all think you're idiots...I am just going to enjoy the unity of SpeakUp over your ignorance.

/

[dgrzeb]

So, Sandusky ran a program for at risk youth, right? Can we safely assume he didn't rape ALL of them? Ok, let's go with that assumption. That would mean he helped out a ton of at risk youths, correct? OK, that being the case, are you going to let a few child rapes over-shadow the other good works that Sandusky performed?
Sincerely,
Frank and dgrzed Immature attitude Fish, if you want to keep the Bill Of Rights, & the US Constitution, Sandusky is innocent right now, not proven guilty of ANYTHING.... Please, though, don't ever sign my signature to YOUR opinion....

[FisherRd]

Immature attitude Fish, if you want to keep the Bill Of Rights, & the US Constitution, Sandusky is innocent right now, not proven guilty of ANYTHING.... Please, though, don't ever sign my signature to YOUR opinion....

That looks identical to your opinion, but don't take my word for it, ask anyone else that's been laughing at you guys for your ridiculous defense of Paterno...

"Sure, he may have turned a blind eye to kiddie rape, but think about how good his coaching record...errrr....how many kids he helped. Are you going to let molested children ruin all of that?"

[dgrzeb]

You're a weak man if this is how you would deal with the same situation.



Wrong. I never said Paterno was guilty. In fact...here is what I said:





You keep on trying to inject the idea that people are saying Paterno broke laws. NOBODY but you fools are saying that. Paterno is guilty of making a bad choice and not correcting that bad choice over 9+ years. Period.

People also fail to grasp that in 1998 Sandusky was investigated for sexually inappropriate behavior with a boy in the showers the football team used. No charges were filed but a year later Sandusky left the program. Also to note that he was viewed to many as the heir apparent to Paterno as HC of the football team.

Now while Sandusky was never charged, those charges are something you do not forget. It is my opinion that he was removed because of the scandal but that is just my opinion.

However, when you consider those charges in 1998 AND what happened a couple years later...there is no way in hell you can say that given the information Paterno should not have done more.

Anyways, you two are not going to back down from your view even after people who NEVER agree all think you're idiots...I am just going to enjoy the unity of SpeakUp over your ignorance.

/ YOU said it, "your opinion", then reverting to name calling again, just because we don't agree with your point(s), well, you're not agreeing with mine, yet I call you no denigrating names, you're entitled to your opinion, as am I, & opinions are neither right or wrong, they're just just, but it's TRUE, RIGHT NOW, Sandusky is INNOCENT until proven guilty, you are not the judge, jury, or trial, the media is....THEY, with their infinite knowledge molded minds to think with what they believe..... God bless you that you're such a stronger person then me, a weakling....

[FisherRd]

On an unrelated note:
LeftWNY, clean out your inbox you hoarder. It's not able to recieve any more until you perfor a little maintenance.

[dgrzeb]

That looks identical to your opinion, but don't take my word for it, ask anyone else that's been laughing at you guys for your ridiculous defense of Paterno...

"Sure, he may have turned a blind eye to kiddie rape, but think about how good his coaching record...errrr....how many kids he helped. Are you going to let molested children ruin all of that?" It's not an opinion, he's not guilty right now, he's still innocent, you're laughing at our Bill Of Rights & Constitution, just bypass our justice system, escort him to jail, & while you're at it, condemn a man who did what he was legally bound to do. I guess all that are laughing at us are just better folks at JUDGING others, I'll bet you're rehearsing for when God calls on you to do it for Him?

[therising]

RIGHT NOW, Sandusky is INNOCENT until proven guilty, you are not the judge, jury, or trial, the media is....

Do you think OJ killed Nicole?
Do you think Casey Anthony killed her daughter?

[FisherRd]

It's not an opinion, he's not guilty right now, he's still innocent, you're laughing at our Bill Of Rights & Constitution, just bypass our justice system, escort him to jail, & while you're at it, condemn a man who did what he was legally bound to do. I guess all that are laughing at us are just better folks at JUDGING others, I'll bet you're rehearsing for when God calls on you to do it for Him?

He is guilty, and I'll wager a pretty penny the courts find him that way (if he doesn't kill himself first). What I'm laughing at are a couple of goofballs that have absolutely no basis in fact to be defending a POS like Paterno. It defies logic that anyone would defend a man whose inaction and lack of leadership allowed a child raper to claim more victims.

I don't rehearse for that Sky Fairy you call a god. If there was a god, he would have prevented scum like Sandusky from raping children. He would have given Paterno the intestinal fortitude to follow up on the rape of children on the campus paterno owned, by a guy paterno knew inside and out.

[dgrzeb]

Do you think OJ killed Nicole?
Do you think Casey Anthony killed her daughter? These have nothing to do with the Penn St. situation, for one, they both went thru our entire court system, OJ was cleared criminally, then convicted civilly, Anthony was not found guilty. Doesn't matter what I think of them, like your questioning liberal media's potential handling if Hitler was alive today? Plus I wasn't there, didn't read ALL of what the jury heard & seen that was entered into evidence, I have to go with the jury verdicts though, have to believe in the "jury by your peers" theory, until you find something better, let me know? Rising, it's OK that we disagree, I don't dislike you or the others (in spite of name calling) because we don't agree, I guess because of my upbringing, because I believe in innocent until proven guilty, because I've been thru it, if you inbox one another & laugh at others' opinions, that's your business. But this comes down to we have to be civil to one another & "agree to disagree".....

[dgrzeb]

He is guilty, and I'll wager a pretty penny the courts find him that way (if he doesn't kill himself first). What I'm laughing at are a couple of goofballs that have absolutely no basis in fact to be defending a POS like Paterno. It defies logic that anyone would defend a man whose inaction and lack of leadership allowed a child raper to claim more victims.

I don't rehearse for that Sky Fairy you call a god. If there was a god, he would have prevented scum like Sandusky from raping children. He would have given Paterno the intestinal fortitude to follow up on the rape of children on the campus paterno owned, by a guy paterno knew inside and out. your opinion, & immature name calling.....sigh.....:rolleyes:

[therising]

These have nothing to do with the Penn St. situation, for one, they both went thru our entire court system, OJ was cleared criminally, then convicted civilly, Anthony was not found guilty. Doesn't matter what I think of them, like your questioning liberal media's potential handling if Hitler was alive today? Plus I wasn't there, didn't read ALL of what the jury heard & seen that was entered into evidence, I have to go with the jury verdicts though, have to believe in the "jury by your peers" theory, until you find something better, let me know? Rising, it's OK that we disagree, I don't dislike you or the others (in spite of name calling) because we don't agree, I guess because of my upbringing, because I believe in innocent until proven guilty, because I've been thru it, if you inbox one another & laugh at others' opinions, that's your business. But this comes down to we have to be civil to one another & "agree to disagree".....

You didn't answer my question.
The point is, the whole "innocent till proven guilty" is a standard that jurors have to live up to. I, not being a juror, have every right to say that I think OJ DID kill Nicole, and that Casey Anthony did kill her daughter.

And, I think you know that I DO like you personally, and this has nothing to do with that. As for your statement of "if you inbox one another & laugh at others' opinions, that's your business," I have no idea what you're talking about.

[FisherRd]

As for your statement of "if you inbox one another & laugh at others' opinions, that's your business," I have no idea what you're talking about.

I told Lefty his inbox was full, and apparently he believes it had to do with laughing at him.

Apparently he thinks I need to laugh at him here in the forum, and in the private messages section?



I find it funny that a person that believes in an all powerful, never before seen, sky pixie is accusing others of being immature.
At a certain point, ridiculous opinions and a complete lack of reasoning skills need to be pointed out. When pointing them out in a constructive manner isn't effective, some times a little flavor is added. If that's too much for you to handle, maybe ask your god for some strength? Perhaps the same strength sandusky's victims prayed for?

[Frank Broughton]

Paterno testified that Mike McQueary did tell him he saw Sandusky having sex with a young boy. That has never been the issue.
You are giving him the benefit of the doubt for something which he has freely admitted.

This is not clear, there is controversy on this, as I pointed out. I am not gonna hang someone over sloppy evidence.

[dgrzeb]

You didn't answer my question.
The point is, the whole "innocent till proven guilty" is a standard that jurors have to live up to. I, not being a juror, have every right to say that I think OJ DID kill Nicole, and that Casey Anthony did kill her daughter.

And, I think you know that I DO like you personally, and this has nothing to do with that. As for your statement of "if you inbox one another & laugh at others' opinions, that's your business," I have no idea what you're talking about. Rising, I did answer your question, I said I go with the juries, OJ not guilty in criminal court, Anthony not guilty in criminal court, I believe in our court system, I think for me personally to have that strong of an opinion, I'd have to read all the transcripts, see all the evidence, as the actual jurists did. I just got what all others got, bit & pieces of both trials, by the media, highlights if you will, so I go with the juries. As far as personally liking you as a person, I do, I think you're good people, but someone stated on here that all the other people on this forum were laughing at frank & my posts because we don't agree with them, then said someone's "inbox" was full, thus I thought maybe in the background some were PMing each other, I know this "practice" used to happen a lot, my apologies, I should know better that you'd be involved, sorry Rising....(Oh, I agree, you not being a juror on either case, have a right to believe guilt or innocence regardless of the jury's decision, your opinion is your right, again, my opinion to go with the juries is mine....)

[Frank Broughton]

So, Sandusky ran a program for at risk youth, right? Can we safely assume he didn't rape ALL of them? Ok, let's go with that assumption. That would mean he helped out a ton of at risk youths, correct? OK, that being the case, are you going to let a few child rapes over-shadow the other good works that Sandusky performed?
Sincerely,
Frank and dgrzed


Fish, I am not saying that at all. I hate what deviant homosexual child abusers do deeply (I have scars from them)! I would do more than REPORT if I caught one in the act. I think dgred explained this well in the last post. I am not gonna jump any gun and assume anything when the truth is not out yet. I have seen false statements in official arrest papers. I admit Penn State was and still is my favorite college team and I may be biased in even why I am posting in this thread. Regardless of that, I stand where I stand for other reasons - this mob like conviction of Mr. Paterno is wrong (AT THIS POINT).

[Frank Broughton]

On an unrelated note:
LeftWNY, clean out your inbox you hoarder. It's not able to recieve any more until you perfor a little maintenance.

haha talking behind our backs eh? Yeppers a mob fer sure!!! :p

[Frank Broughton]

Do you think OJ killed Nicole?
Do you think Casey Anthony killed her daughter?

NOT MY CALL! and there lies the problem with mob mentality!

[dgrzeb]

I told Lefty his inbox was full, and apparently he believes it had to do with laughing at him.

Apparently he thinks I need to laugh at him here in the forum, and in the private messages section?



I find it funny that a person that believes in an all powerful, never before seen, sky pixie is accusing others of being immature.
At a certain point, ridiculous opinions and a complete lack of reasoning skills need to be pointed out. When pointing them out in a constructive manner isn't effective, some times a little flavor is added. If that's too much for you to handle, maybe ask your god for some strength? Perhaps the same strength sandusky's victims prayed for? I think "immature" is exactly what elementary school kids do when in debate, they use name calling, or swearing to make a point & belittle one who does not agree with you. Plus my God has "His hand on me", I have full trust in Him, He has the rain fall on the just & the unjust, loves all His children the same, you, I, & all. I have no problem with you being of another faith or of no faith, but I believe God helps the children who get hurt out there, it's not Him doing the hurting, it's some "other" spirit that "controls" this world......

[dgrzeb]

Fish, I am not saying that at all. I hate what deviant homosexual child abusers do deeply (I have scars from them)! I would do more than REPORT if I caught one in the act. I think dgred explained this well in the last post. I am not gonna jump any gun and assume anything when the truth is not out yet. I have seen false statements in official arrest papers. I admit Penn State was and still is my favorite college team and I may be biased in even why I am posting in this thread. Regardless of that, I stand where I stand for other reasons - this mob like conviction of Mr. Paterno is wrong (AT THIS POINT). Well stated Frank, at this point (for Sandusky....)

[Frank Broughton]

I told Lefty his inbox was full, and apparently he believes it had to do with laughing at him.

Apparently he thinks I need to laugh at him here in the forum, and in the private messages section?



I find it funny that a person that believes in an all powerful, never before seen, sky pixie is accusing others of being immature.
At a certain point, ridiculous opinions and a complete lack of reasoning skills need to be pointed out. When pointing them out in a constructive manner isn't effective, some times a little flavor is added. If that's too much for you to handle, maybe ask your god for some strength? Perhaps the same strength sandusky's victims prayed for?

Such brilliance....

[dgrzeb]

Such brilliance.... I didn't know you were a Penn State fan also. I don't feel I'm biased though, I just like to see the whole thing settled with real evidence bu juries, regardless of what college, workplace, etc. That said, great news for a school tarnished by this "scandal" even with all this going on a local player, St. Francis' Akeel Lynch is headed to Penn State. I got to see him play once, awesome talent, can see he is heads over heals better then those he played against or with. World class type athlete, JoPa would have liked watching him, RIP JoPa......

[therising]

This is not clear, there is controversy on this, as I pointed out. I am not gonna hang someone over sloppy evidence.

I quoted Paterno's own words at the grand jury testimony. How is that controversial?

[therising]

NOT MY CALL! and there lies the problem with mob mentality!

Sure it's not your (or mine) call - but you must have an opinion. That's all I was asking.

[Frank Broughton]

I quoted Paterno's own words at the grand jury testimony. How is that controversial?

He used rape?

[therising]

He used rape?

I quoted his exact words yesterday. And you didn't want to hear it. You thought, all along, that there was some question as to whether or not Paterno was told of what happened. And, there never was any question about it.
I guess you'll defend this child rape enabler to the death. In some circles, that may be admirable. I just don't run in those circles.

[Frank Broughton]

I quoted his exact words yesterday. And you didn't want to hear it. You thought, all along, that there was some question as to whether or not Paterno was told of what happened. And, there never was any question about it.
I guess you'll defend this child rape enabler to the death. In some circles, that may be admirable. I just don't run in those circles.

Yes you posted this:


Q: Without getting into any graphic detail, what did Mr. McQueary tell you he had seen and where?

Mr. Paterno: Well, he had seen a person, an older — not an older, but a mature person who was fondling, whatever you might call it — I’m not sure what the term would be — a young boy.

Q: Did he identify who that older person was?

Mr. Paterno: Yes, a man by the name of Jerry Sandusky who had been one of our coaches, was not at the time.

Q: You’re saying that at the time this incident was reported to you, Sandusky was no longer a coach?
Mr. Paterno: No, he had retired voluntarily. I’m not sure exactly the year, but I think it was either ‘98 or ‘99.

Q: I think you used the term fondling. Is that the term that you used?

Mr. Paterno: Well, I don’t know what you would call it. Obviously, he was doing something with the youngster.

It was a sexual nature. I’m not sure exactly what it was.

I didn’t push Mike to describe exactly what it was because he was very upset. Obviously, I was in a little bit of a dilemma since Mr. Sandusky was not working for me anymore.

So I told — I didn’t go any further than that except I knew Mike was upset and I knew some kind of inappropriate action was being taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster.

Q: Did Mike McQueary tell you where he had seen this inappropriate conduct take place?

Mr. Paterno: In the shower.

Where is the rape mentioned?

Therising you do not know what I would do or have done to deviant child abusing homosexuals. So please spare me with the lollipop circle of words as to who and what you and I run with. I stood in Erie County Court supporting a plaintiff who was a victim of one said deviant homosexual. I was happy to see the man sent to prison for a long time. I took all I had to not jump over the barrier and strangle the evil man! He destroyed that young man's life. Another of his victims in Ohio committed suicide because he could not bear what this evil homosexual did to him. So, please spar me with your flippant words about who I run with, I run with those who put this evil behind bars!

[therising]

Yes you posted this:



Where is the rape mentioned?

Therising you do not know what I would do or have done to deviant child abusing homosexuals. So please spare me with the lollipop circle of words as to who and what you and I run with. I stood in Erie County Court supporting a plaintiff who was a victim of one said deviant homosexual. I was happy to see the man sent to prison for a long time. I took all I had to not jump over the barrier and strangle the evil man! He destroyed that young man's life. Another of his victims in Ohio committed suicide because he could not bear what this evil homosexual did to him. So, please spar me with your flippant words about who I run with, I run with those who put this evil behind bars!

Sorry, Frank - you're right, I paraphrased.
"Rape" was my own word. Because when I hear of a grown man ****ing a 12 year-old boy up the ass, I consider it to be "rape." But, I guess you're right - maybe I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions, and used that word. My bad.

[Frank Broughton]

I guess you'll defend this child rape enabler to the death. In some circles, that may be admirable. I just don't run in those circles.

Therising you do not know what I would do or have done to deviant child abusing homosexuals. So please spare me with the lollipop circle of words as to who and what you and I run with. I stood in Erie County Court supporting a plaintiff who was a victim of one said deviant homosexual. I was happy to see the man sent to prison for a long time. It took all I had to not jump over the barrier and strangle the evil man! He destroyed that young man's life. Another of his victims in Ohio committed suicide because he could not bear what this evil homosexual did to him. So, please spare me with your flippant words about who I run with, I run with those who put this evil behind bars!

[Yankeefan2009]

The homosexual rape scandal at Penn State should have no bearing in remembering Joe Pa.

[yokes]

The homosexual rape scandal at Penn State should have no bearing in remembering Joe Pa.

I totally agree with this statement, JOpa did everything he had to do when confronted with alleged homesexual pedophile rape

Unfortunantly I think long term it will reflect on JoPA because people ar mean. JoPa made it clear he was ok with it going on by his in-action.

Clearly JoPa was for homosexual pedophile rape...otherwise he would have found it in his heart to do more to stop it, but he didnt and that ok cuase he's a great man who helped tons of kids. Way more than were raped

I bet he supported muslims raping people to

[FisherRd]

I bet he supported muslims raping people to

Where does he stand on goat rape?
Sincerely,
PETA and Frank

[WNYresident]

....& you're the one who decides who's moral & who's not?

Matthew 18:6
Mark 9:42
Luke 17:2

http://www.disciplelikejesus.com/what-did-jesus-do.html


Jesus Protected His Disciples From the Wolves. When Jesus sent His disciples out; He didn't send them out until they were fully trained. Even then He did not send them out alone, and they were grown men! He sent them out with other mature Christians because there were "wolves" in the world. Jesus was aware of the wolves and He protected His disciples. Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go. ...3 Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves." Unfortunately, today there are many more "wolves" that would love to steal, kill and destroy our children. Parents who want to disciple like Jesus will never send their children into the world alone; like Jesus they will only allow their children to go out with trusted Christian adults. Wise parents will make themselves aware of the "wolves" that threaten their children and will take measures to protect them. Consider Jesus as the Shepherd in the 23rd Psalm, vs 8 "Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me.." Let us be with our little lambs when they are in the dangerous world in which we live.


You protect the children of the community.

[therising]

The homosexual rape scandal at Penn State should have no bearing in remembering Joe Pa.

True. And, as Frank B pointed out in JoePa's defense, JoePa was never told it was "rape."
He was just told it was "something sexual of nature" with the 12 year old boy. He probably thought that the sex with the 12 year old was on the up and up, since no one used the word rape.

Anyway, Yankeefan - not sure if you have kids, or not - but I'm willing to bet that if someone knew that a grown man had sex with your 12 year old son, and they didn't call the police......then you may be singing a different tune. Unless, of course if that person was a legendary football coach - then they would get a pass.

[dgrzeb]

Matthew 18:6
Mark 9:42
Luke 17:2

http://www.disciplelikejesus.com/what-did-jesus-do.html




You protect the children of the community. Matthew 18:6, But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. ~ Mark 9:42, And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. ~ Luke 17:2, It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. **Someone found you some scriptures to post, without reading before those verses before or the verses to follow? Do you even own a Bible or ever picked one up to read it? Have you asked the Holy Spirit to help you understand the Word of God? YOU & ME, ALL are to "protect" the "children of God", that's ALL of us, we're ALL children of God, it's not an age. Do you want me to find 30-40 different Bible verses to show you the error in your application of "your" verses? I'll just use what follows after Luke 17:2, "3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him." <----- THIS IS RIGHT AFTER "YOUR VERSE", it's talking about sin (not morals), again, RIGHT NOW, even Sandusky is INNOCENT as per our justice system, he's charged criminally, NO WHERE did God "die" to grant YOU, or any of us the right to judge JoPa's morals! It seems many here feel they're so perfect, God handed them the job to judge others "thoughts", their hearts, my opinion is as valid as yours, & mine is that JoPa was a 77 to 85 year old man who doesn't or didn't live in the same world as us, texting, emails, hand held ipods, he did what he thought right, NO ONE here can say that they would have done different with hearsay, you're ALL that tough "Campus Cop" now, on your PC, go through what those children did (IF it actually happened, not proven yet), go through what Paterno did as the scapegoat for the university brass that DID DROP THE BALL (again, IMHO?), then you can tell folks about how moral & perfect YOU are! To God, a sin is a sin, the only sin that's unforgivable, is the sin of "blasphemy to the Holy Spirit". Anyone here sinless? If sinless, then when God appoints YOU to judge folk's morals, then you can condemn a man who did nothing wrong..... God bless you, I pray for me, I pray for ALL on SUWNY everyday.....(& I KNOW I'M NOT PERFECT!)

[dgrzeb]

Matthew 7

1Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou HYPOCRITE, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. <------ I do not condone violence, especially when it concerns children, all children are innocent, but we are legally bound to adhere to our justice system, whether folks like it or not, and WE MUST, live by "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY", or our cornerstone of democracy might as well be burned & cast into that sea also..... (I still have about 40 more Scriptures, but I'm thru with this, God bless you all, please forgive me my trespasses against you....)

[FisherRd]

Why is Sandusky now a homosexual? I think the word you're looking for is "pedophile".

He's married, to a woman, so why isn't he described by you guys as a deviant heterosexual?

Pedophiles are pedophiles, whether they rape a boy or a girl.

[therising]

Why is Sandusky now a homosexual? I think the word you're looking for is "pedophile".

He's married, to a woman, so why isn't he described by you guys as a deviant heterosexual?

Pedophiles are pedophiles, whether they rape a boy or a girl.

YankeeFan addressed this back when the Sandusky thing happened.
He said that it was really a shame that Sandusky did homosexual rapes because

"A 10 year old boy could bounce back a lot better by having sex with a woman vs being sodomized by a homo."
and:

It's one thing to be raped, it's another thing for the victim to have homosexuality FORCED onto him

If only Sandusky had raped young girls. They would have bounced back from it so much easier. Cause, you know, at least it would been hetero sex.

[FisherRd]

If only Sandusky had raped young girls. They would have bounced back from it so much easier. Cause, you know, at least it would been hetero sex.

Heck, if he had done that this wouldn't even have been a story...
In fact, Paterno would still be alive today, and leading the Lions to a major bowl game next year, which is all that really matters anyway, right?

LEAVE SANDUSKY ALONE!

[Mindcrime]

...LEAVE SANDUSKY ALONE!


http://www.starbuddies.com/_ups/cris%20crocker.jpg

[Frank Broughton]

Why is Sandusky now a homosexual? I think the word you're looking for is "pedophile".

He's married, to a woman, so why isn't he described by you guys as a deviant heterosexual?

Pedophiles are pedophiles, whether they rape a boy or a girl.

Easy male with male equals homosexual!

[Frank Broughton]

Heck, if he had done that this wouldn't even have been a story...
In fact, Paterno would still be alive today, and leading the Lions to a major bowl game next year, which is all that really matters anyway, right?


No, and I have not taken that position from the beginning. My current position is too complex for angry people to understand.

I have spoke very clear here and most of what I have said is being ignored. I would wager that when some have read my posts at the first thing they read that they disagree with they hit reply and did not even read all my words.

I have been perfectly clear where I stand on this subject.

How many times do I have to say it - the process must run out - WE DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS! Are any of you in the position of being a mandatory reporter? Are any of you in the position of being under one? Legally there are ramifications for both.

[therising]

No, and I have not taken that position from the beginning. My current position is too complex for angry people to understand.

I have spoke very clear here and most of what I have said is being ignored. I would wager that when some have read my posts at the first thing they read that they disagree with they hit reply and did not even read all my words.

I have been perfectly clear where I stand on this subject.

How many times do I have to say it - the process must run out - WE DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS! Are any of you in the position of being a mandatory reporter? Are any of you in the position of being under one? Legally there are ramifications for both.

We all know where you stand, Frank. That's why a few of us are repulsed.

The only facts we know are:
- Paterno was told "something sexual in nature" went on between Sandusky and the young boy in the shower
- Paterno followed school protocol, and told his bosses about it
- Paterno never called the police
- You think Paterno did the right thing

[Frank Broughton]

We all know where you stand, Frank. That's why a few of us are repulsed.

The only facts we know are:
- Paterno was told "something sexual in nature" went on between Sandusky and the young boy in the shower
- Paterno followed school protocol, and told his bosses about it
- Paterno never called the police
- You think Paterno did the right thing

Like I said too complex....

I guess you missed this part: Are any of you in the position of being a mandatory reporter? Are any of you in the position of being under one? Legally there are ramifications for both.

[therising]

Like I said too complex....

I guess you missed this part: Are any of you in the position of being a mandatory reporter? Are any of you in the position of being under one? Legally there are ramifications for both.

Not sure what mandatory reporter means, or how it's relevant (although I did just Google it.)
Maybe you can explain.
Are you a mandatory reporter? Was Paterno?

[Frank Broughton]

Not sure what mandatory reporter means, or how it's relevant (although I did just Google it.)
Maybe you can explain.
Are you a mandatory reporter? Was Paterno?

In certain organizations some people are required by law to report such incidents - thus a mandatory reporter. Being in the position I am in, I would report to my supervisor. He is not a mandatory reporter in NY but would do so in a heartbeat. Our insurance company requires we do background checks on all volunteers and followup each year - I do that part. In this whole thread I was only getting at that we do not know enough yet to pin any blame on Mr. Paterno - we do not know the protocols that this organization has in place on reporting. Do you have a copy of their insurance policy? Do they have one even or are they self insured? What is the law on reporting in this state? You see what I was getting at?

I think I was clear on my position as to the crime, just not YET on Mr Paterno's requirements and or RESTRICTIONS under law and insurance.

[therising]

In certain organizations some people are required by law to report such incidents - thus a mandatory reporter. Being in the position I am in, I would report to my supervisor. He is not a mandatory reporter in NY but would do so in a heartbeat. Our insurance company requires we do background checks on all volunteers and followup each year - I do that part. In this whole thread I was only getting at that we do not know enough yet to pin any blame on Mr. Paterno - we do not know the protocols that this organization has in place on reporting. Do you have a copy of their insurance policy? Do they have one even or are they self insured? What is the law on reporting in this state? You see what I was getting at?

I think I was clear on my position as to the crime, just not YET on Mr Paterno's requirements and or RESTRICTIONS under law and insurance.

So being that you're a mandatory reporter, does that mean it's mandatory that you report such events to your supervisor, but it precludes you from reporting to the authorities?

And, it's just kind of surprising that you would bring up things like insurance policies? It seems unfathomable that, when told of a child being raped, someone would take into consideration things such as proper protocol, and insurance policies.

You must understand where I'm coming from?

[Frank Broughton]

So being that you're a mandatory reporter, does that mean it's mandatory that you report such events to your supervisor, but it precludes you from reporting to the authorities?

And, it's just kind of surprising that you would bring up things like insurance policies? It seems unfathomable that, when told of a child being raped, someone would take into consideration things such as proper protocol, and insurance policies.

You must understand where I'm coming from?

First one correction, in NY I am NOT a mandatory reporter. To answer the question. YES - it is called red tape and it spills its ugly head into all areas. Common sense is out the door when lawyers and lawsuits are so rampant as it is today. Sad ain't it!

But therising, have no fear, if I seen a crime like that in action there would be no court case. I pretty much have my bad temper under control these days, but it would be gone fer sure then!

[dgrzeb]

So being that you're a mandatory reporter, does that mean it's mandatory that you report such events to your supervisor, but it precludes you from reporting to the authorities?

And, it's just kind of surprising that you would bring up things like insurance policies? It seems unfathomable that, when told of a child being raped, someone would take into consideration things such as proper protocol, and insurance policies.

You must understand where I'm coming from? Rising, I totally understand from where you're coming from and ALL on this forum, I hope you understand where I'm coming from, it goes both ways....

[Over The Valley]

.......So, if a similar situation occured at your church, your policy would be to inform an Elder of the allegation (But not the police) because you don't have the authority and your insurance does not permit it to go any further?

Come on Frank. I expect more from you. Even the pollywogs get it.

If you think you're right in Swamp Law, Judicial Law or God's judgment......... You're not and acting so may very well cause you more than your cloak some day!

Furthermore, if you're insurance policy advises you to keep mum and just sell your house for a buck if and when something occurs, you need a new provider.

Beware of the Slime Theology Frank!

[WNYresident]

Rising, I totally understand from where you're coming from and ALL on this forum, I hope you understand where I'm coming from, it goes both ways....

I don't. How does it go both ways?

If someone reports to you they saw an adult having sex with a 12 year old my only concern would be the safety of the kid not the adult, not if it would effect someone's insurance rates, not if it would effect the reputation of my place of employment or my job. The man who saw it first hand should have also gone to the authorities.

[WNYresident]

Frank ask yourself this. What would Jesus have done. The man who walked in sandals over 2000 years ago....

Would he use the excuse he technically did was was required or would he have protected the child from further abuse by letting the authorities know what was going on? Would his concern only be for himself or for the child. What do you think?

[dgrzeb]

I don't. How does it go both ways?

If someone reports to you they saw an adult having sex with a 12 year old my only concern would be the safety of the kid not the adult, not if it would effect someone's insurance rates, not if it would effect the reputation of my place of employment or my job. The man who saw it first hand should have also gone to the authorities. My point being AGAIN, one in THIS country (supposedly) is that you're innocent until proven guilty, everyone is convicting Paterno, who as the facts haven't been told yet was not, nor ever would be charged with anything. Even Sandusky is innocent still, how I'd react, how you'd react is ALL hypothetical , NO ONE knows for sure how they'd react, most would do what JoPa did, report what he heard (hearsay) to the hierarchy of the university, they should have reported it to the proper authorities, not JoPa. I'm not perfect, where I come from is watching the media act as the judge & jury of people before there's ever been a trial , but to judge someone's morals? Again, someone gives you some Scriptures, I have 40+ more that tell you your wrong (as per the Bible, which not all adhere to, including you), that who are WE, to judge the morals of someone? Yes we go to trial with those accused of breaking the law, but there's no trial for "morals", unless AGAIN, God died & placed those duties on your shoulders? He didn't, He's alive & watching us all, I don't judge until the trial (& even then, I trust the jury's decision), my opinions about morals are as valid as all here, so YOU understanding MY side, is BOTH WAYS, we have differing opinions, I understand your stance, but stubbornly, you don't mine, fine, God bless you....

[WNYresident]

My point being AGAIN, one in THIS country (supposedly) is that you're innocent until proven guilty, everyone is convicting Paterno, who as the facts haven't been told yet was not, nor ever would be charged with anything. Even Sandusky is innocent still, how I'd react, how you'd react is ALL hypothetical , NO ONE knows for sure how they'd react, most would do what JoPa did, report what he heard (hearsay) to the hierarchy of the university, they should have reported it to the proper authorities, not JoPa. I'm not perfect, where I come from is watching the media act as the judge & jury of people before there's ever been a trial , but to judge someone's morals? Again, someone gives you some Scriptures, I have 40+ more that tell you your wrong (as per the Bible, which not all adhere to, including you), that who are WE, to judge the morals of someone? Yes we go to trial with those accused of breaking the law, but there's no trial for "morals", unless AGAIN, God died & placed those duties on your shoulders? He didn't, He's alive & watching us all, I don't judge until the trial (& even then, I trust the jury's decision), my opinions about morals are as valid as all here, so YOU understanding MY side, is BOTH WAYS, we have differing opinions, I understand your stance, but stubbornly, you don't mine, fine, God bless you....

I didn't say he was guilty. I said he should have reported it to the authorities.

I know exactly how I would react. I would have reported what I heard to the authorities and brought the guy who witnessed it with me.

[dgrzeb]

I didn't say he was guilty. I said he should have reported it to the authorities.

I know exactly how I would react. I would have reported what I heard to the authorities and brought the guy who witnessed it with me. HE DID REPORT THIS HEARSAY TO THE HIERARCHY, yet you insist he's not a person of morals because YOU KNOW that you're moral, far more then Paterno! No you don't understand my point, think about it coming from ME, MY LIFE, ....

[Over The Valley]

Properly handling a situation and serious allegation of an illegal act does not equate to a statement of guilt.

There are only two options here. If somebody reports to you that they witnessed another person within your organization committing an illegal act, they are either slandering that person, or the allegation of what they witnessed is true.

Reporting the allegation will allow an investigation and either the reporter will be accused of slander and defamation, or a process will begin to find the innocence or guilt of the accused. This is both American and Biblical. Doing so would also remove yourself from further speculation and will allow the situation to be handled properly.

Either way, passing it on to a superior, keeping mum and selling your house for $1 is not wise or ethical. I can assure you that I know for a fact that I wouldn't do so, nor would I advise anybody else to do so......... Nor would your insurance agent, lawyer or Pastor.

[WNYresident]

Stay on topic on this thread. Two completely different issues.


It's not ok but it is still on topic foul or not.


You betcha....

Authorities should have been notified period. To say "I'm off the hook" because I notified my boss doesn't cut it.


Should have been reported to the police immediately. Period. I can't see any justification for him not to follow up with it after he was told what was seen. Anyone can say he helped 100's of kids which he did... But he also allowed the possibility of dozens of other kids to be molested. Sometimes you need to follow thru until the end. There are also instances where you can't say the good someone did out weights the bad they did. This was not a victimless crime.


If I was told by someone who was not a fibber that they saw so and so molesting a kid in the shower it would most definitely be looked into. I know exactly how i would react. If it was two adults fooling around it's one thing. If it's an adult with a kid it is completely different.

JoPa technically did not molest kids. No one is saying he did. This is one of those moral judgement calls.


Matthew 18:6
Mark 9:42
Luke 17:2

http://www.disciplelikejesus.com/what-did-jesus-do.html




You protect the children of the community.


I don't. How does it go both ways?

If someone reports to you they saw an adult having sex with a 12 year old my only concern would be the safety of the kid not the adult, not if it would effect someone's insurance rates, not if it would effect the reputation of my place of employment or my job. The man who saw it first hand should have also gone to the authorities.


Frank ask yourself this. What would Jesus have done. The man who walked in sandals over 2000 years ago....

Would he use the excuse he technically did was was required or would he have protected the child from further abuse by letting the authorities know what was going on? Would his concern only be for himself or for the child. What do you think?


I didn't say he was guilty. I said he should have reported it to the authorities.

I know exactly how I would react. I would have reported what I heard to the authorities and brought the guy who witnessed it with me.


HE DID REPORT THIS HEARSAY TO THE HIERARCHY, yet you insist he's not a person of morals because YOU KNOW that you're moral, far more then Paterno! No you don't understand my point, think about it coming from ME, MY LIFE, ....




Only thing I said is he should have reported it. I said this is "This is one of those moral judgement calls."

[Frank Broughton]

.......So, if a similar situation occured at your church, your policy would be to inform an Elder of the allegation (But not the police) because you don't have the authority and your insurance does not permit it to go any further?

Come on Frank. I expect more from you. Even the pollywogs get it.

If you think you're right in Swamp Law, Judicial Law or God's judgment......... You're not and acting so may very well cause you more than your cloak some day!

Furthermore, if you're insurance policy advises you to keep mum and just sell your house for a buck if and when something occurs, you need a new provider.

Beware of the Slime Theology Frank!

I have been VERY CLEAR WHAT I WOULD DO!!!! Do I have to repeat it for the 7th time at least? I have spoke of my past and what I HAVE DONE TOO!

[Frank Broughton]

Let me be VERY CLEAR, if I have any suspicion whatsoever of a child being abused in my sphere of influence I would do everything I could possibly do to make sure the proper police authorities were notified. I would follow up with as much vigor and energy I could muster to make sure it was brought to justice in a court of law.

Let me also be perfectly clear, if I personally saw a deviant homosexual raping a young boy - well...... hmmmmm I am very afraid that a court case would not be needed - but for me.

Am I clear enough on what I WOULD DO!

[Yankeefan2009]

Joe Pa did all he needed to legally and is not facing criminal charges. He is an innocent man and has done alot for the community, not even mentioning his storied coaching career. Like I said before, the liberal media is making the homosexual pedophilia of a one time coach the focus of his entire life. This is not only completely unfair but it shows the liberal bias in the media.

If he was a minority or gay he would have DEFINITELY been given a free pass. If it doesn't fit into the liberal agenda then they twist facts around and focus on negatives.

[dgrzeb]

Joe Pa did all he needed to legally and is not facing criminal charges. He is an innocent man and has done alot for the community, not even mentioning his storied coaching career. Like I said before, the liberal media is making the homosexual pedophilia of a one time coach the focus of his entire life. This is not only completely unfair but it shows the liberal bias in the media.

If he was a minority or gay he would have DEFINITELY been given a free pass. If it doesn't fit into the liberal agenda then they twist facts around and focus on negatives. So true Yankee, what a great turn out for his memorial & funeral, MANY spoke out about the denigrating, biased remarks about him! Funny, the people who lived there, who had or have children, had no hatetred of him, didn't blame him, not ONE local person come out & say nasty things about him, I mean the guy used to walk thru the neighborhood to his office, yet he was deservity loved. Here, "they" question his morals, no one here is perfect enough to question anyone's morals until you clean up your own act!

[dgrzeb]

Please forgive my typing errors, this "smart phone" has a teeny touch screen keyboard, I can barely see it yet only type correctly, plus one letter off & it changes the whole word via its spell check....

[therising]

Let me be VERY CLEAR, if I have any suspicion whatsoever of a child being abused in my sphere of influence I would do everything I could possibly do to make sure the proper police authorities were notified. I would follow up with as much vigor and energy I could muster to make sure it was brought to justice in a court of law.

Then, why do you keep saying that Paterno did the right thing??

[therising]

Joe Pa did all he needed to legally and is not facing criminal charges.

Everyone knows that. It's not even an issue as to whether or not he did what was necessary to cover his ass legally.

And, you, Frank, and Dgrzeb seem to find that acceptable.

Me, I find it repugnant.

[WNYresident]

Everyone knows that. It's not even an issue as to whether or not he did what was necessary to cover his ass legally.

And, you, Frank, and Dgrzeb seem to find that acceptable.

Me, I find it repugnant.

What he said

[Over The Valley]

Ditto;
Ditto

[Frank Broughton]

Then, why do you keep saying that Paterno did the right thing??

Which part of NOT YET do you not understand. YOU DO NOT KNOW ALL THE FACTS yet... and either do I. This mob rule busybody mentality is destroying America. I want no part of it.

[therising]

Which part of NOT YET do you not understand. YOU DO NOT KNOW ALL THE FACTS yet... and either do I. This mob rule busybody mentality is destroying America. I want no part of it.

We KNOW that Paterno was told that something sexual in nature happened in the shower. Those are his own words.
You're right, we don't know all the facts, but we know that much. And, as a matter of fact, I'm giving Paterno a huge benefit of the doubt. In his testimony, he said that he was told that "something sexual in nature" happened in the shower. So, I'm willing to take his word for it.

And, you keep saying he did the right thing - followed proper protocol, etc.
So, what you're saying is that when someone is told that something sexual in nature happened in the shower between a young boy and a grown man, that the right thing to do is to tell your supervisor, and let him or her worry about calling the police.

And, what I'm saying is that anyone who does that (puts proper protocol over the welfare of the child victim) is a scumbag.

But, the great thing about America is that we have the right to disagree.

[Over The Valley]

I'm still trying to find where I read it, but I recall a quote that went something like this;

You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.

Moving forward, if anybody thinks they would find a policy of dealing with a situation such as this internally rather than presenting it to the proper authorities is avoiding reality!

Come on Frank ..... WWJD ????

Imagine Jesus teaching on a parable of two different men.

The first told his boss, sold his house for 1$ and went back to work.

The second man took the person with him to the police to register the allegation and let them look into it further.

Would you expect that Jesus would commend the man who kept the allegation mum and criticize the other ?? Before you answer, remember, the second man did not make the allegation.

The answer is not one of drawing judgment, so it should come easy. But if not and you really have the 'Mum' clause active in place in your organization, you just might be avoiding reality as is a certain BoSoxFan!

Also, can you share the verbage in your insurance policy that advises to deal internally rather than inform authorities ??

[dgrzeb]

I'm still trying to find where I read it, but I recall a quote that went something like this;

You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.

Moving forward, if anybody thinks they would find a policy of dealing with a situation such as this internally rather than presenting it to the proper authorities is avoiding reality!

Come on Frank ..... WWJD ????

Imagine Jesus teaching on a parable of two different men.

The first told his boss, sold his house for 1$ and went back to work.

The second man took the person with him to the police to register the allegation and let them look into it further.

Would you expect that Jesus would commend the man who kept the allegation mum and criticize the other ?? Before you answer, remember, the second man did not make the allegation.

The answer is not one of drawing judgment, so it should come easy. But if not and you really have the 'Mum' clause active in place in your organization, you just might be avoiding reality as is a certain BoSoxFan!

Also, can you share the verbage in your insurance policy that advises to deal internally rather than inform authorities ?? "Imagine Jesus teaching on a parable of two different men.

The first told his boss, sold his house for 1$ and went back to work.

The second man took the person with him to the police to register the allegation and let them look into it further.

Would you expect that Jesus would commend the man who kept the allegation mum and criticize the other ?? Before you answer, remember, the second man did not make the allegation. <-----you know "OTV", this makes no sense, I think you should go with Jesus "real" parables that are in the Bible, the Holy Spirit didn't help you write that one, & I don't believe Jesus needs us as His authors, He's already said to judge not, lest ye be judge, especially according to the harshness you judge others, like judging others' morals, especially when you're "morals" aren't perfect, NO ONE in here is.....

[Over The Valley]

....... So we'll just rely on each other's actions and decisions, accept them for what they are and wait for our individual judgment ?? With that level of faith we shouldn't even need law enforcement. Sinful fallen fellow man will see everything through.

Ahhh, And whatever you do. do not let what Jesus would do enter your mind on this or any other situation that was not specifically recorded or taught on.

Doing so would be adding to the Bible - Right ?

But didn't you judge him as 'Righteous' ?

My Bible does have your reference verse...... But I cannot find where inaction is rewarded in regard to a wrongful allegation against children.

Just remember...... don't judge, have faith and follow your insurance policy to the letter and whatever you do, do not report anything - no matter what !

Good Bye, post a 'win' if you need to and please don't invite me to your VBS. Shhh!

[Over The Valley]

I thought I was through, but can't stop thinking about what you've shared. You still win, I just need your advice now so I act properly.....

Not wanting to judge anybody or blaspheme God's word by thinking of how Jesus would respond in a present day situation, I need your advice.

I won't use the title 'Parable' so let's just call it a 'Situation'.

Let's imagine a situation arises whereby I am made aware of a very serious level of abuse. The problem is that the person being accused is currently unemployed, so he doesn't have a boss at the moment. To complicate things, the company he previously worked for has closed, so I can't even go to his previous boss.

Furthermore, the person who brought the allegation to me is a neighborhood child.

You've already told me that reporting it to the police would be bringing damnation on myself for judging another, so I won't even think about it.

I really need your advice - This is very difficult - Who is defined as his boss in the insurance policy? After all, the alleged abuse didn't even occur in at the job place. Would it be proper to seek out his former boss anyway - just to make good with my insurance carrier?

Should I have already sold my house, do so now, or wait it out for a few years and see where this all leads ?

Either way, I'll keep mum and not judge as you advised. I'm just concerned for the victim.

[dgrzeb]

OTV, I don't do hypothical situations, I'm speaking of this Sandusky case, & that JoPa did nothing wrong, yet HIS morals are being questioned by all the folks here who have perfect morals & values! In our system, even Sandusky is innocent, the justice system will run its course, but JoPa being JUDGED by anyone for his morals? That's what's wrong here, I'm not going to keep stating this & let you spin my opinions, you can speculate, judge him, I wont, if I were on the jury, I'd get to hear evidence on Sandusky, NOT Paterno! You want to judge Paterno, or anyone else, that's where I disagree, plus you haven't heard the evidence pro or con against Sandusky, again, he's in the court system, hopefully, Paterno's in Heaven. God bless all of you!!