Americorps off the hook?

[GhostofCharles]

At the June 23rd Town Board Meeting Comptroller Bielecki stated:

"that as of December 31, 2006 the advance (of WS taxpayer money to Americorps) was over $1 million, as of December 31, 2007 the advance was over $1,600,000 and on June 20, 2008 the advance had grown to $2,095,000. This was money the town was losing interest on and money that was growing exponentially."

As of now, nothing is on the record stating ML and Americorps has made any attempt to pay the money back, yet something very interesting has popped up on the Agenda for this Monday's Meeting.....

"Youth Director re Zeroing out AmeriCorps Program negative balance"

Does this mean that ML is being forgiven this gross over spending and burdoning the tax payers of West Seneca?

Can anyone shed some light on this?

[snowwhite]

Does the Town Board have the authority to ignore a debt that is almost $3 million dollars of taxpayers money? If it is, then that's incredible. I've never heard anything like this and if its true, then the Town Board members who support it should be impeached. And I'm serious. What is everyone elses thoughts on this?

[MERL J]

Seems like a classic case of "double-dipping" that is supported by your town representatives. Who's got what on whom?

[LHardy]

Does West Seneca receive 2 million in services from Americorps of West Seneca?
Are all those youths, who I see wander aimlessly around with Americorps, from West Seneca?

I sometimes eat lunch at the Indian Church St. Park and have observed those youths. There will be a dozen of them get out of the Americorps van and walk around as if they are picking up trash.
They more resemble a rag tag team of misfits strolling through a park doing nothing.

If it where my tax dollars, I'd ask for a refund.

[snowwhite]

Does West Seneca receive 2 million in services from Americorps of West Seneca?
Are all those youths, who I see wander aimlessly around with Americorps, from West Seneca?

I sometimes eat lunch at the Indian Church St. Park and have observed those youths. There will be a dozen of them get out of the Americorps van and walk around as if they are picking up trash.
They more resemble a rag tag team of misfits strolling through a park doing nothing.

If it where my tax dollars, I'd ask for a refund.

LHardy,

I have known a few of the Americorp volunteers, and the majority of them are from the city and surrounding towns, like Lackawanna, Blasdell, etc. Mostly from the poorer towns and the poor sections of the city. And no we do not receive $2 million dollars in services from the program. They mostly help out in communities that need assistance because they can't afford to get things done on their own. They would have you believe that they help WS but its not true. Can anyone think of one thing that they have done in our town? They are suppose to keep the Burchfield park maintained, but if you been there recently like I have, its a mess.

I'm afraid we have been ripped off. We are expected to pay our taxes each year or we could lose our homes and now Americorp is in debt and we bail them out with our tax dollars. This is more than I can stomach.

[WNYresident]

In debt to who?

Or are you just refering to them costing WS 2 mil?

[WNYresident]

How actual many kids are in the local program?

And how many employees are being paid?

[snowwhite]

In debt to who?

Or are you just refering to them costing WS 2 mil?


Americorp overspent their grants and WS fronted the monies, so I guess I should have said that the town is in debt because they lost over $2 million by giving it to Americorp, hoping they would pay it back. But it hasn't happened yet and I doubt it will.

[GhostofCharles]

Does West Seneca receive 2 million in services from Americorps of West Seneca?


This is the heart of the issue. ML has said for years that Americorps doesn't cost the West Seneca tax payers anything, but if we are stuck with the debt, then i'd say it does.

The main reason Americorps is at Burchfield Nature & Art Center is help pay off the bond the Town sponsored building it. If the Town Council forgives the debt, not only are we in affect refunding all of the rental money that Americorps has paid over the years, we would be surrendering enough tax payer dollars to pay for the Burchfield twice.

If this is indeed the case, I would encourage tax payers to show up to Monday's Meeting and tell the Town Council this is unacceptable.

I have also heard that Town Supervisor Piotrowski will not be there. Based on his record this past year, I cannot imagine he is in support of this. Is this Graber and Bove trying to pull one over on us all?

[GhostofCharles]

Americorp overspent their grants and WS fronted the monies, so I guess I should have said that the town is in debt because they lost over $2 million by giving it to Americorp, hoping they would pay it back. But it hasn't happened yet and I doubt it will.

Another good point, where was the accountability this whole time? This has been going on since 2006. I don't know about you, but when I have spent all the money in my checking account the bank doesn't let me spend any more.

[snowwhite]

How actual many kids are in the local program?

And how many employees are being paid?


There are several different grants within Americorp. There are approximately 12 or so members who report to the Burchfield every day. Then there are Youthbuild members who work in a building off Harlem Road which may be 10 or so. The majority of members are tutors and they work in the city schools tutoring. They do not come out to WS except for training or a meeting. They either fax or mail their time sheets into the office every other week. So if you are considering how many actually are here in the town, it is no more than a hand full. When ML says he oversees hundreds of members, he is talking about the ones in Mississippi and Louisanna and in the Buffalo schools. As far as staff goes, that has been reduced by the majority being forced out. There are probably 15 at the Burchfield and 2 for Youthbuild and I'm not sure how many are down south. so as you can see, WS gets a very small benefit from this program.

[GhostofCharles]

I heard a rumor that ML met with Councilman Graber for dinner on Friday night. Hammering out the final details of their deception? Enough is enough.

[snowwhite]

I heard a rumor that ML met with Councilman Graber for dinner on Friday night. Hammering out the final details of their deception? Enough is enough.

Well if Graber and Lazzaro met, then you know its a done deal. Those two are joined at the hip and for some unknown reason Graber is ML's mouth piece. did you ever hear him at a Town Board meeting when he rattles off the statistics on what Americorp has accomplished. Its word for wors what ML says also. They are two peas in a pod. WS we need to speak up and stop this unbeliveable situation from happening. Everyone who canbe there, come tomorrow night and lets not let the Town Board pull one over on us!

[WNYresident]

I can't believe they would allow that much money of your TOWN money to go to that group. But everyone in WS lets it happen....

[GhostofCharles]

I can't believe they would allow that much money of your TOWN money to go to that group. But everyone in WS lets it happen....


Has let it happen... That doesn't mean we have to keep letting it happen. I personally have had enough of WS Town Council, Erie County and State Legislature politics dictating decisions that cripple this area. It is time we took a stand. It can no longer be about citizen's passive aggresive nature allowing these kinds of egregious edicts that cost us all. We need to take a stand and hold our elected officials (that we voted in) accountable.

[Niagara]

Enough is enough.

Well Charles. What happened?

[dtwarren]

I believe this was all covered previously. The Town basically acts as a pass through for the Americorps Grants which means that the Town fronts the money for the expenses and is reimbursed when the grant funds are released which nets to 0 expense for the Town. At least in theory because there is the loss of use of those funds between outlay and reimbursement.

However, I do believe these should be reflected on the expense and revenue sides of the budget and not just left out, just like the County reflects such transactions in its budget.

[MERL J]

I believe this was all covered previously. The Town basically acts as a pass through for the Americorps Grants which means that the Town fronts the money for the expenses and is reimbursed when the grant funds are released which nets to 0 expense for the Town. At least in theory because there is the loss of use of those funds between outlay and reimbursement.

However, I do believe these should be reflected on the expense and revenue sides of the budget and not just left out, just like the County reflects such transactions in its budget.

And that, my friends, is basic accounting. And, accountability. Had this been in practice, the funds deficiet would have been identified way before it got too late. Now, it seems it is way too late. All hail the Queen. Some of you know who I mean.

[Niagara]

I believe this was all covered previously. The Town basically acts as a pass through for the Americorps Grants which means that the Town fronts the money for the expenses and is reimbursed when the grant funds are released which nets to 0 expense for the Town. At least in theory because there is the loss of use of those funds between outlay and reimbursement.


You mean that nothing happened? This thread is a bitchfest of those who do not like Americorp, claim the town is out two million dollars and when push comes to shove they all climbed into a hole? I get the impression nobody in this town including the comptroller, supervisor, and many posters on this forum know what they are talking about.

And if indeed there is an accounting issue, is it the fault of Americorp or the town comptroller present or past?

[dtwarren]

You can see what the TB did here: http://www.westseneca.net/bdmin08/mi080623.html at Itme #23.

[Spirit of Ebenezer]

I get the impression nobody in this town including the comptroller, supervisor, and many posters on this forum know what they are talking about.

Are you including DTWarren with this accusation ?

[Niagara]

You can see what the TB did here: http://www.westseneca.net/bdmin08/mi080623.html at Itme #23.

Thanks DT. Finally someone posts a link. You would think hardly anyone knows how to cut and paste. To think some of the information was in the 06/3/008 communications. But what happened on Monday night is still a mystery.


Mary Lou Dietrich, 156 Bellwood Avenue, Director of the West Seneca Food Pantry, stated that for 20 years she did the deliveries for the food pantry, but she was unable to do it any longer and she appreciated what AmeriCorps did. Mrs. Dietrich was saddened that people felt the way they did about this issue and thought that better communication might help...Mrs. Dietrich commented on how the AmeriCorps members had grown into young, responsible adults and she hoped that everyone could work together and be open so people understood the funding and other issues.


Deb Fazara, 1416 Ridge Road, stated that she works for Baker Victory Services and they had great success with AmeriCorps. She also spent years in Jamestown where AmeriCorps provided a lot of opportunities for people with developmental disabilities to accomplish things on their own or non-profits that don’t have the manpower to do things that are very necessary. Ms. Fazara had a nephew who was once very depressed but became a recipient of AmeriCorps, received his GED, and was becoming very prosperous in his life. She was concerned about the tension and animosity and thought there was some kind of vindictiveness against AmeriCorps and Mr. Lazzara.

[Niagara]

Are you including DTWarren with this accusation ?

How about you SOE, do you know what happened on Monday night?

[snowwhite]

How about you SOE, do you know what happened on Monday night?

I wasn't at the meeting, but I did call Meegan today and she asked Bielicki what Americorp owes the town and he replied that it is 3.1 million dollars. She asked if they are responsible for paying the Town back and he said YES. So, Manny, call up your good friend Mark and tell him to get busy fundraising because he in debt up to his eyeballs. And I for one will keep after him until all that money is returned to the town. Because it is my money and your money and your neighbors money and anyone else inthis town who pays taxes!

[Niagara]

I wasn't at the meeting, but I did call Meegan today and she asked Bielicki what Americorp owes the town and he replied that it is 3.1 million dollars. She asked if they are responsible for paying the Town back and he said YES. So, Manny, call up your good friend Mark and tell him to get busy fundraising because he in debt up to his eyeballs. And I for one will keep after him until all that money is returned to the town. Because it is my money and your money and your neighbors money and anyone else inthis town who pays taxes!

Interesting information. Obviously if there is a "pass through" there is a potential problem of budgeting. This does not mean there is malfesance, it means there needs to be meticulous accounting. I would get onto Bielcki to get onto the stick to figure out potential income from grants through 2011 and monies owed the town and get together with Americorp chapter to figure a budget for them through that time. Either that, or/and go to the federal government and get money owed, or make sure it is forthcoming. You beat the drum of someone stealing YOUR tax dollars. Far from it. Better to learn how to work the system than to can the system and wallow in ignorance.

[WNYresident]

I wasn't at the meeting, but I did call Meegan today and she asked Bielicki what Americorp owes the town and he replied that it is 3.1 million dollars. She asked if they are responsible for paying the Town back and he said YES. So, Manny, call up your good friend Mark and tell him to get busy fundraising because he in debt up to his eyeballs. And I for one will keep after him until all that money is returned to the town. Because it is my money and your money and your neighbors money and anyone else inthis town who pays taxes!

Whta was the money actually spent on?

It didn't seem like there were a lot of employees. Or was everyone on a salary?

[snowwhite]

Whta was the money actually spent on?

It didn't seem like there were a lot of employees. Or was everyone on a salary?

There are about 15 employees now. Their salaries come out of the grants, but not MLs. But ML is known to like to travel and stay at only the best places. He enjoys eating at only the best restaurants. He also likes to throw parties for his friends. I have heard that he nevers look at the budget, he buys what he wants when he wants it. If you notice, the Americorp always has new jackets, t-shirts, etc. That all costs alot of money. From what I have heard and know, there has not been many fundraisers that actually made any money. In fact, they lost money. And to Manuel- if the Corporation was to know how much money ML has overspent, they would close his unit down. It is not their problem to bail him out, its his problem to find the money to repay the town.

[WNYresident]

There are about 15 employees now. Their salaries come out of the grants, but not MLs. But ML is known to like to travel and stay at only the best places. He enjoys eating at only the best restaurants. He also likes to throw parties for his friends. I have heard that he nevers look at the budget, he buys what he wants when he wants it. If you notice, the Americorp always has new jackets, t-shirts, etc. That all costs alot of money. From what I have heard and know, there has not been many fundraisers that actually made any money. In fact, they lost money. And to Manuel- if the Corporation was to know how much money ML has overspent, they would close his unit down. It is not their problem to bail him out, its his problem to find the money to repay the town.


So the salaries were paid for by grants? WHAT was the 2 or what ever million used for then?

[MERL J]

So the salaries were paid for by grants? WHAT was the 2 or what ever million used for then?

That's the issue - fuzzy math and lack of accountability. How unfortunate. AmeriCorps is a tremendous nationwide organization. It is the individual chapters that people judge them by. There's another chapter in Buffalo proper and they do great work with transparency.

[WNYresident]

They have to keep receipts...

[snowwhite]

They have to keep receipts...

"They" have receipts but they don't want to share them. Americorp has a hard time giving them up. They do have a heavy duty shredder, too!

[WNYresident]

"They" have receipts but they don't want to share them. Americorp has a hard time giving them up. They do have a heavy duty shredder, too!

That won't do.

It's my money they are using. It's your money too.. It's all our money.

[MERL J]

"They" have receipts but they don't want to share them. Americorp has a hard time giving them up. They do have a heavy duty shredder, too!


And a lot of late nights at the office when the departmental reviews started, eh?

[OldTymeRevival]

That won't do.

It's my money they are using. It's your money too.. It's all our money.

It's about time this issue is brought up to National and also to the State for their review in light of the overspent 3.5 million by WNY Americorps (formerly West Seneca Americorps). The TB speaks in general terms about this matter as if it doesn't understand or know how to reconcile the matter, other than forgive it.

Does the average resident of WS understand that that if this matter is just swept under the carpet and ML and his organization are not held to the fire and made to reimburse the town for every penny, this 3.5 m becomes a gift of public funds to Buffalo and every other (other than the paltry sum spent here in town) municipality where they do their work?!

That's just about what the TB agreed to by transferring the Metz House and two or three other School Street properties to WNY Americorps! Yes, instead of selling the properties outright and recouping the towns dollars used to purchase them and pay for the materials used by Americorps Youth Build to re-hab them, they gave them to WNY Americorps. Yet another gift of public funds, people.

Wake up- how much of our towns money is going to squandered on ML and his failed programs- not the programs themselves, but the financial side of these great opportunities. I think I recall hearing, on one or more occasions, his COO was alleged to have proclaimed that he was the town's "cash cow!" Someone explain how many times we pay for this cow?

[WNYresident]

Well there has to be a paper trail for each dollar taken and spent. Simple as that. How much money would have to be unaccounted for it to be a crime?

[Psycho1]

The chickens are coming home to roost!

Though I've been out of the loop lately, due to work, I have kept tabs as best I can. It seems as though Mark's little kingdom may finally crumble down around him. Hopefully the feds will come in and set this straight.

[Niagara]

The chickens are coming home to roost!

Though I've been out of the loop lately, due to work, I have kept tabs as best I can. It seems as though Mark's little kingdom may finally crumble down around him.

How do you figure that. He has put people to work. He has numerous people doing work helping with a Katrina cleanup that will never end. Next to Iraq, Katrina is the countries next biggest money pit. To the feds, three mil over fifteen years is chump change, if indeed there is a short fall which I suspect there is not. The guy is a hero.

[Niagara]

Well there has to be a paper trail for each dollar taken and spent. Simple as that. How much money would have to be unaccounted for it to be a crime?

If you are paying taxes, sure if your money is unaccounted for, it is a crime. But this is Americorp. This is an organization designed to spend money putting people to work which it has. You are comparing apples and oranges. The US had unaccounted billions of dollars in the Iraq War. Yes, that was your money too. I think that before people accuse others of crimes, they should think twice.

[WNYresident]

How do you figure that. He has put people to work. He has numerous people doing work helping with a Katrina cleanup that will never end. Next to Iraq, Katrina is the countries next biggest money pit. To the feds, three mil over fifteen years is chump change, if indeed there is a short fall which I suspect there is not. The guy is a hero.

So the people of west seneca had their property tax diverted for Katrina cleanup besides what they paid with their federal tax dollars?

[WNYresident]

If you are paying taxes, sure if your money is unaccounted for, it is a crime. But this is Americorp. This is an organization designed to spend money putting people to work which it has. You are comparing apples and oranges. The US had unaccounted billions of dollars in the Iraq War. Yes, that was your money too. I think that before people accuse others of crimes, they should think twice.

Both wrong... I don't even know how or why you are comparing the two. West Seneca property taxes shouldn't go to a "employement" program for services that DO NOT benefit them.

[Niagara]

So the people of west seneca had their property tax diverted for Katrina cleanup besides what they paid with their federal tax dollars?

For the owner of a local blog, and a frequent on the WS site, you do not demonstrate a good knowledge of WS/WNY Americorp. Why don't you stop by the Burchfield and introduce yourself to ML and he can give you an over view of what they do, where they are, and their history. As stated by WT, Americorp is a federal program, similar to Peacecorp, WPA, other things. Rightly or wrongly, they need a sponsor. Probably wrongly. The Peacecorp need a sponsoring nation, but that nation does not have to come up with any money. As the director of this Americorp, ML has to develop programs and places for them to operate. YOUR tax dollars will be spent. The only question is where. Better here than elsewhere.

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/471495.html
Tax dollars at work or are they.

[WNYresident]

For the owner of a local blog, and a frequent on the WS site, you do not demonstrate a good knowledge of WS/WNY Americorp. Why don't you stop by the Burchfield and introduce yourself to ML and he can give you an over view of what they do, where they are, and their history. As stated by WT, Americorp is a federal program, similar to Peacecorp, WPA, other things. Rightly or wrongly, they need a sponsor. Probably wrongly. The Peacecorp need a sponsoring nation, but that nation does not have to come up with any money. As the director of this Americorp, ML has to develop programs and places for them to operate. YOUR tax dollars will be spent. The only question is where. Better here than elsewhere.

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/471495.html
Tax dollars at work or are they.

Did property taxes from west seneca people go into the program? Yes or no?

[snowwhite]

Did property taxes from west seneca people go into the program? Yes or no?

Yes, they did because ML overspent the funds he had for the grants, so the town put the money up front to pay his expenses and now it is to the tune of 3.1 million dollars. I can't see how he will ever be able to re-pay the town this money. The last administration never wanted to know what was going on. they were alerted many times but turned a blind eye. Now the new admin. is in a situation of not knowing how to correct this problem. They stepped into this without any knowledge of what had taken place previously. I would think that if this doesn't get resloved, then charges could be forth coming. I wonder if the FBI would be interested in looking into this. They're here working on P. Clark's problem so they might as well stay and look into this for us taxpayers too.

[OldTymeRevival]

Yes, they did because ML overspent the funds he had for the grants, so the town put the money up front to pay his expenses and now it is to the tune of 3.1 million dollars. I can't see how he will ever be able to re-pay the town this money. The last administration never wanted to know what was going on. they were alerted many times but turned a blind eye. Now the new admin. is in a situation of not knowing how to correct this problem. They stepped into this without any knowledge of what had taken place previously. I would think that if this doesn't get resloved, then charges could be forth coming. I wonder if the FBI would be interested in looking into this. They're here working on P. Clark's problem so they might as well stay and look into this for us taxpayers too.


The last administration used Americorps as a springboard and selling point for PC's failed County Exec race. Once he saw the mess created by years of "fuzzy math" associated with the entire Americorps programs he swept everything under the carpet for fear of it blowing up in his face! Everything brought to his attention regarding this mess was systematically filed under "let's not (dare) open Pandora's box!"

Is it true the COO's brother's an FBI agent? Wonder if that presents a conflict, in as much as everyone else has turned a blind eye to ML and the mess he's created for the town? Well, if not then the Corporation for National Service should, as well as NY State.

[WNYresident]

So this program was "supposed" to be funded by federal dollars.. right?

There was no fund raising or more grants coming threw so the town board allowed about $3,000,000 to be taken from the citizens of WS for a federally funded program?

Is there $3,000,000 waiting in grants for the group to reimburse the home owners?

[Niagara]

So this program was "supposed" to be funded by federal dollars.. right?
There was no fund raising or more grants coming threw so the town board allowed about $3,000,000 to be taken from the citizens of WS for a federally funded program?
Is there $3,000,000 waiting in grants for the group to reimburse the home owners?
I think you owe it to yourself, this board of yours, and the individuals involved to take a few hours out and go to WS and ask a few people (town board members, comptrollers past and present) these questions and not Old Time Revival, and Snow (could it be the hair?) White because they do not know. Go and visit Paul Clark, Mr. Koller and while your are at, present comptroller Bielicki and town board members. If indeed, there is an under funding of reimbursement, there should be effort to get the congressional deligation to fix it. Hell, there are Katrina 'victims' still in their trailers how many years after the event, and indeed WNY Americorp is involved overseeing those trailers among many other things.
What galls me, and where you have a moral responsibility here is your board has been systematically used to defame people. Whether they be in the public employ or not and because there is an underage or overage or not is irrelevent to the fact that it is implied continually there that there has been malfesance. "Call out the big guns" "FBI" "Forensic Audit" BS makes me sick. You are even part of it with your retorical questions exhibited above. And statements like this.
That won't do.
It's my money they are using. It's your money too.. It's all our money.
I emailed Shiela Meegan for an answer to basicly the same arguement I am making here, to yet without response although it is yet only a day. But you Mr. WNYResident would be the perfect one to act as the investigative reporter everyone claims to want. You are not a WS resident or an Amherst resident, you are WNYResident. If you do not want to do it in person go here
http://www.westseneca.net/director.html
and email them a list of questions.

[GhostofCharles]

"They" have receipts but they don't want to share them. Americorp has a hard time giving them up. They do have a heavy duty shredder, too!

Councilwoman Bove's comments at the beginning of the year from the Jan. 14th Town Board Meeting....

Mrs. Bove stated she has been concerned with the number of terminations and resignations of employees associated with the Youth Bureau, and rumors of lawsuits and human rights complaints to New York State. She had requested information on employees, whether Youth Bureau or Americorps, with salaries and bonuses. She subsequently received information limited to a list of names and whether 100% Youth Bureau or Americorps. No salaries were included and she was told to find this information herself. The 2008 Youth Bureau budget is a third of a million dollars, with three people in the department. Mrs. Bove felt there had been a boring of the Youth Bureau over the last few years, with Western New York Americorps and the Burchfield Nature & Art Center.

[Niagara]

Councilwoman Bove's comments at the beginning of the year from the Jan. 14th Town Board Meeting....

Mrs. Bove stated she has been concerned with the number of terminations and resignations of employees associated with the Youth Bureau, and rumors of lawsuits and human rights complaints to New York State. She had requested information on employees, whether Youth Bureau or Americorps, with salaries and bonuses. She subsequently received information limited to a list of names and whether 100% Youth Bureau or Americorps. No salaries were included and she was told to find this information herself. The 2008 Youth Bureau budget is a third of a million dollars, with three people in the department. Mrs. Bove felt there had been a boring of the Youth Bureau over the last few years, with Western New York Americorps and the Burchfield Nature & Art Center.

Hardly current information. During these past ten months there has been plenty of time to do a review, and pass the information around. Evidently, they are comfortable with their 'review', and going forward, if there is a problem, fix it. But that is too logical. More fun to yap like a Chiuaua.

[WNYresident]

I think you owe it to yourself, this board of yours, and the individuals involved to take a few hours out and go to WS and ask a few people (town board members, comptrollers past and present) these questions and not Old Time Revival, and Snow (could it be the hair?) White because they do not know. Go and visit Paul Clark, Mr. Koller and while your are at, present comptroller Bielicki and town board members. If indeed, there is an under funding of reimbursement, there should be effort to get the congressional deligation to fix it. Hell, there are Katrina 'victims' still in their trailers how many years after the event, and indeed WNY Americorp is involved overseeing those trailers among many other things.
What galls me, and where you have a moral responsibility here is your board has been systematically used to defame people. Whether they be in the public employ or not and because there is an underage or overage or not is irrelevent to the fact that it is implied continually there that there has been malfesance. "Call out the big guns" "FBI" "Forensic Audit" BS makes me sick. You are even part of it with your retorical questions exhibited above. And statements like this.
I emailed Shiela Meegan for an answer to basicly the same arguement I am making here, to yet without response although it is yet only a day. But you Mr. WNYResident would be the perfect one to act as the investigative reporter everyone claims to want. You are not a WS resident or an Amherst resident, you are WNYResident. If you do not want to do it in person go here
http://www.westseneca.net/director.html
and email them a list of questions.


It boils simply down to time. I'm not a reporter.

ALso if you noticed a majority of items that appear here tend to be TRUE.. sad though... it's like watching a WNY political comedy hour.

[snowwhite]

I think it is very sad what is happening in the town I have lived in all of my life. I know Manuel doesn't want to hear any thing bad about ML but what is written here is true as far as the information I have. Some of it is info that I have seen first hand and some is from people who work in the town hall and know what is going on there. The fact of the matter is that we need to find out how and when ML plans to reimburse the town 3.1 million dollars. I think maybe its time to let the Corporation of National & Community Service know how this program is being run and let them deal with the problem. It is nobody's responsiblity to re-pay the town except ML and the Corporation might be able to assist him in finding a way to do it. The bottom line is, he spent the money and now he needs to pay it back.

[OldTymeRevival]

I think it is very sad what is happening in the town I have lived in all of my life. I know Manuel doesn't want to hear any thing bad about ML but what is written here is true as far as the information I have. Some of it is info that I have seen first hand and some is from people who work in the town hall and know what is going on there. The fact of the matter is that we need to find out how and when ML plans to reimburse the town 3.1 million dollars. I think maybe its time to let the Corporation of National & Community Service know how this program is being run and let them deal with the problem. It is nobody's responsiblity to re-pay the town except ML and the Corporation might be able to assist him in finding a way to do it. The bottom line is, he spent the money and now he needs to pay it back.

I agree that it's time to get the facts (straightened out) and a realistic and legitimate plan to repay the town for the money it has advanced to ML and his Americorps. National & Community Services should know what has taken place and either intervene, or in the least assist ML and his staff and members to repay WS.

If that offends Manuel, it's his problem. He is totally snowed by a charlatan in whom he's found sainthood. G-d save us all! If that be the case, I wish to be non natus!

[Niagara]

I agree that it's time to get the facts (straightened out) and a realistic and legitimate plan to repay the town for the money it has advanced to ML and his Americorps. National & Community Services should know what has taken place and either intervene, or in the least assist ML and his staff and members to repay WS.

If that offends Manuel, it's his problem. He is totally snowed by a charlatan in whom he's found sainthood. G-d save us all! If that be the case, I wish to be non natus!

I say good for you. Get onto those councilmembers to get a plan together for repayment, if indeed there is a short fall. No, you are not going to get it out of ML, neither are you going to send him to jail, so get that out of your system. If there is some inside information that some have, share it. There is no reason there should be a 'privledged class of taxpayers'.

[Niagara]

It boils simply down to time. I'm not a reporter.

ALso if you noticed a majority of items that appear here tend to be TRUE.. sad though... it's like watching a WNY political comedy hour.

The point is you do have a responsibility to see that your business is not used improperly. It is a moral responsibility. For you to participate in the 'comedy hour' and/or allow misinformation to be spread is a misdeed, IMHO. To say that 'a majority of items that appear here tend to be TRUE' is a copout.

[Niagara]

I think it is very sad what is happening in the town I have lived in all of my life.

I think it is very sad there are so many unhappy people in the town. I do not think there is need for peer counciling as much as there is need for mental health counciling.

[MERL J]

I think it is very sad there are so many unhappy people in the town. I do not think there is need for peer counciling as much as there is need for mental health counciling.

"counciling" ...and spelling................:D

[Niagara]

"counciling" ...and spelling................:D

Thanks for the spelling counceling.........MERL

[MERL J]

Thanks for the spelling counceling.........MERL

"counseling"

[WNYresident]

The point is you do have a responsibility to see that your business is not used improperly. It is a moral responsibility. For you to participate in the 'comedy hour' and/or allow misinformation to be spread is a misdeed, IMHO. To say that 'a majority of items that appear here tend to be TRUE' is a copout.

What business used improperly? This is a script that runs on a server.

[Niagara]

What business used improperly? This is a script that runs on a server.

It is more than that. It is information transfer. No, you are not providing the information, but you sure are joining in on the circus. Your business has been used for a long time now to accuse someone of criminality. That is a serious issue. I think you, if not legally at least morally have an obligation to check into it and not just say that most of the stuff here winds up being true. You are thereby putting your stamp of approval onto it.

[snowwhite]

It is more than that. It is information transfer. No, you are not providing the information, but you sure are joining in on the circus. Your business has been used for a long time now to accuse someone of criminality. That is a serious issue. I think you, if not legally at least morally have an obligation to check into it and not just say that most of the stuff here winds up being true. You are thereby putting your stamp of approval onto it.

It is not right to blame WNY because you do not like what is being written. This is information that needs to get out to the taxpayers and because you don't like the message - tooo bad! We are not making this stuff up out of thin air, these are things that have happened and need to be corrected. So if you don't like the messages, then stop reading them and stop being a part of the process. It seems to me like sour grapes on your part. If you can tell me that there are no human rights filed against ML and there are no law suits filed against ML and there are no people who have been hurt by ML, then I will stop writing and you will hear from me no more. But I know these are correct facts and as long as I have proof, I will continue to let people know about the situation.

[Niagara]

It is not right to blame WNY because you do not like what is being written. This is information that needs to get out to the taxpayers and because you don't like the message - tooo bad!

Go ahead and post pics of your evidence. Out your 'sources'. Call who ever you want. I have asked you in the past to post links, but you will not. You do not want to do my 'homework'. This has gone on too long to listen to your 'what I know is true". WNYResident is part of the problem allowing this to continue. Either there is or isn't a short fall. If so fix it. This needs a conclusion. You seem to enjoy and savor this continual defamation and 'outrage' over 'your' tax dollars. I am sure you would not be so peppy if this continual defamation were on your foot.
http://forum.freeadvice.com/libel-slander-defamation-88/can-i-sued-libel-someone-forum-427737.html


Many people do not realize that what is posted on a site can be traced back to them. They believe, wrongly, that they can post whatever they want about whomever they want and there will be no repercussions because on these sites they are "anonymous." This false belief has cost many a poster a lot of money.

[GhostofCharles]

It is more than that. It is information transfer. No, you are not providing the information, but you sure are joining in on the circus. Your business has been used for a long time now to accuse someone of criminality. That is a serious issue. I think you, if not legally at least morally have an obligation to check into it and not just say that most of the stuff here winds up being true. You are thereby putting your stamp of approval onto it.

When West Seneca tax payer money is used to put on fundraising type events such as Fire and Ice, Forest of Fright, Enchanted Forest, Night Under the Stars, etc… with the premise that money raised will go to the Y.E.S. Program, Youth Bureau and Burchfield Nature & Art Center, yet said proceeds are thrown into an Americorps General Fund to be to used to throw lavish parties, go out to expensive dinners, and bump up their seats on airlines to first class, calling for a criminal investigation is well warranted. It is at the very least misappropriation and misrepresentation. And that is the tip of the iceberg.

Throw in there the number of human rights lawsuits against him, the 3.1 million he has overspent, the fact that he could be operating Americorps out of a space for free, yet stubbornly holds the BNAC hostage for $75,000 a year, something has to give.

These are the kinds of things that have gotten people upset and I feel they more than have the right to express these views and raise these kinds of questions here.

And bottom line, a lot of good people have walked away from there; Americorps, Youth Bureau and BNAC, leaving the whole place staffed with a bunch of untalented, lazy, do-nothings. Instead of hinging yourself to “the good” he has done, think about the great that could have been done over the past several years if a lot of people had remained. Enough is enough. Whether criminal charges, a termination or a good old fashioned lynching, something needs to be done.

And if certain politicians continue to refuse to look into it, the referendum vote isn’t too far around the corner.

[Niagara]

When West Seneca tax payer money is used to put on fundraising type events such as Fire and Ice, Forest of Fright, Enchanted Forest, Night Under the Stars, etc… with the premise that money raised will go to the Y.E.S. Program, Youth Bureau and Burchfield Nature & Art Center, yet said proceeds are thrown into an Americorps General Fund to be to used to throw lavish parties, go out to expensive dinners, and bump up their seats on airlines to first class, calling for a criminal investigation is well warranted. It is at the very least misappropriation and misrepresentation. And that is the tip of the iceberg.
I was at Fire and Ice and recall it as being free.
'Lavish Parties'? Were you there? I went to a couple of parties. Hardly call them 'lavish', and I paid to go. My guess is expenses were covered.

Throw in there the number of human rights lawsuits against him, the 3.1 million he has overspent, the fact that he could be operating Americorps out of a space for free, yet stubbornly holds the BNAC hostage for $75,000 a year, something has to give.
No idea about any lawsuits. I have never seen one. The overspending is still to be proven IMO. Even so, a four million dollar budget in ten years is 40 million. If there is a short fall, have the federal government fix it. In fact where is the federal oversight of the town's oversight? I for one applaud his not moving. Let the town departments move to the cheap or free rent.


These are the kinds of things that have gotten people upset and I feel they more than have the right to express these views and raise these kinds of questions here.
As far as 'people' being upset, I see the same names over and over with no evidence ever given. This is a vindetta, and if I were WNYRes I think I might be considering what I might do to control this mess, or checking my insurance policy.


And bottom line, a lot of good people have walked away from there; Americorps, Youth Bureau and BNAC, leaving the whole place staffed with a bunch of untalented, lazy, do-nothings.
This is a strange quote from someone who professes the need for consideration of those employed there. Perhaps your 'good people' is another's 'untalented, lazy, do-nothings'? Were you one of the 'good people'?

[MERL J]

The intermingling of funds between the TWS and ML should have ended when ML changed the name of the org from West Seneca AmeriCorps to WNY AmeriCorps.

[GhostofCharles]

Fire and Ice was I believe $100.00 a couple. But that is besides the point because the lavish parties I am referring to are the thank you parties ML throws for volunteers. If you want to do a hot dog roast or something fine, but when it gets to the extent of bringing in Bravo to cater and a private company to bartend and serve top shelf liquors (on town property no less), that is when it becomes lavish.

You haven't heard about any lawsuits because they are being quietly settled out of court to avoid them going to a public hearing. One was just settled a few weeks ago. There are also at least 2 employees still technically employed by the town because the town keeps tabling their resignations to avoid more lawsuits. Another one is in the works because he fired someone for taking time off of work.

He has gone over budget by $1 million a year for the past 3 years. With a $4 million budget at his disposal, that means he has gone over budget by 25% each year. The federal government should step in to terminate him for this.

Encouraging WNY to "control" free speech goes against everything this website was created for. So enough said there.

By untalented, lazy, do-nothings, I mean people who spend $5,000 on a fundraiser and actually raise $3,000. I mean people who run West Seneca in Bloom and Ginger Bread house contests who get less than 20 entrants because they forget to advertise. I mean program directors who let their volunteers go almost a year without a GED education because they didn't bother to fill the instructor position. I mean people who call ML a monster behind his back because they see what he has done to the "good people" but allow him to do it because they are afraid of retaliation themselves and of losing their health insurance.

And over the past 7 or 8 years, whether they knew it or not, tax payers basically donated to and invested in this organization whether they liked it or not, so yes these people should have a say in the end result.

[Niagara]

Fire and Ice was I believe $100.00 a couple. But that is besides the point because the lavish parties I am referring to are the thank you parties ML throws for volunteers. If you want to do a hot dog roast or something fine, but when it gets to the extent of bringing in Bravo to cater and a private company to bartend and serve top shelf liquors (on town property no less), that is when it becomes lavish. There may have been a party before the F&I show, but the show itself was free.


You haven't heard about any lawsuits because they are being quietly settled out of court to avoid them going to a public hearing. One was just settled a few weeks ago. There are also at least 2 employees still technically employed by the town because the town keeps tabling their resignations to avoid more lawsuits. Another one is in the works because he fired someone for taking time off of work.
Taking time off of work, or not showing up? It sounds like perhaps you are right there are alot of lazy, do nothings past and present, and that ML has been trying to control a a three ring circus.


He has gone over budget by $1 million a year for the past 3 years. With a $4 million budget at his disposal, that means he has gone over budget by 25% each year. The federal government should step in to terminate him for this.
I welcome a review. Going back to my N days I welcomed a review by a competent reviewer. That might rule out Bielicki because he was appointed by WP, and he has an agenda.


Encouraging WNY to "control" free speech goes against everything this website was created for. So enough said there.
There is no such thing as 'free speech'. Obama has proven that with his lawsuits against those who say what he doesn't want to hear. You say you can not or will not prove anything. Your statements and those of others IMO cross the line of moral decency, and possibly more. As the owner of this instrument of 'free speech' Mr. WNYres is bound by civil laws just like any business owner. He is under obligation to censor his board for bad language and more. In my opiniion, where your statements cross the line and defame others, you should be given warnings, and if it does not stop, more.


By untalented, lazy, do-nothings, I mean people who spend $5,000 on a fundraiser and actually raise $3,000. I mean people who run West Seneca in Bloom and Ginger Bread house contests who get less than 20 entrants because they forget to advertise. I mean program directors who let their volunteers go almost a year without a GED education because they didn't bother to fill the instructor position. I mean people who call ML a monster behind his back because they see what he has done to the "good people" but allow him to do it because they are afraid of retaliation themselves and of losing their health insurance.
So what. No one ever said you had to like your boss, but you should respect him.


And over the past 7 or 8 years, whether they knew it or not, tax payers basically donated to and invested in this organization whether they liked it or not, so yes these people should have a say in the end result.
And whose fault is that, ML's, the town's, or the fed's. As for present, I see no evidence that the taxpayers of WS are out anything.

[snowwhite]

Manny, I have a suggestion for you. You seem to have a hard time believing that ML owes 3.1 million dollars, so why don't you call the comptroller, Bob Bielicki and asked him yourself. He will give you the information that you are looking for and maybe you will believe him. His number is 558-3207. If you can't reach him there, then ask for his number at his other office and talk to him there. Then maybe we can get past this one item and move on to other things. Sound good?

[WNYresident]

It is more than that. It is information transfer. No, you are not providing the information, but you sure are joining in on the circus. Your business has been used for a long time now to accuse someone of criminality. That is a serious issue. I think you, if not legally at least morally have an obligation to check into it and not just say that most of the stuff here winds up being true. You are thereby putting your stamp of approval onto it.

See what he's trying to twist it into? "Your Business has been used."

Someone pm'd me that the ML group may be looking for a way to sue me because they are not happy what others are saying about the group.

Manual will keep doing the "Your business has been" to try to attach a "liability" to me or the VBULL script that everyone is using to post with.

I'm not approving of anything or disapproving of anything.

And he repeats it again


As the owner of this instrument of 'free speech' Mr. WNYres is bound by civil laws just like any business owner. He is under obligation to censor his board for bad language and more. In my opiniion, where your statements cross the line and defame others, you should be given warnings, and if it does not stop, more.

No I don't have to censor for bad language. I just do it because I don't like people with "naughty" mouths speaking like that in public in front of who ever. Simple as that. IN their own home or yard or group of friends you can all talk anyway you like.

[snowwhite]

See what he's trying to twist it into? "Your Business has been used."

Someone pm'd me that the ML group may be looking for a way to sue me because they are not happy what others are saying about the group.

Manual will keep doing the "Your business has been" to try to attach a "liability" to me or the VBULL script that everyone is using to post with.

I'm not approving of anything or disapproving of anything.

And he repeats it again



No I don't have to censor for bad language. I just do it because I don't like people with "naughty" mouths speaking like that in public in front of who ever. Simple as that. IN their own home or yard or group of friends you can all talk anyway you like.

I will swear on my grandfather's grave that everything I have written here has been the truth. And doesn't our constitution call for freedom of speech. Nothing is liable and they would have a hard time proving it which they won't do because it would only open up a big can of worms and then ML would have to tell the truth which will not be good for him. So don't worry WNYres because they have no grounds to sue you or anyone else on this web site. THE TRUTH WILL PREVAIL.

[Niagara]

No I don't have to censor for bad language. I just do it because I don't like people with "naughty" mouths speaking like that in public in front of who ever. Simple as that. IN their own home or yard or group of friends you can all talk anyway you like.

http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_faq#faq_tos


3. Posts or threads containing language that includes personal attacks, racially or ethnically charged wording, insults, profanity, badgering of others is especially prohibited- this includes what is stated about our elected officials. Supporting information must follow 'wrongful' claims against politicians.

I think you have failed to enforce rule #3, expecially the last assuming you consider ML a politician, which he is not. The fact that he is not is even more damning of your neglect.
No I am not part of any group. I am just a concerned citizen who is angry about the direction this town has taken.

[MERL J]

Before all the "4thekids" "4UWS" and other effigies of the ML factor start to post, ever notice "Manuel" is the only one on that side of the board? And, "Manuel" my friend Guillermo wonders why a purebred white guy like you uses an Hispanic name.

[Niagara]

Nothing is liable and they would have a hard time proving it which they won't do because it would only open up a big can of worms and then ML would have to tell the truth which will not be good for him. So don't worry WNYres because they have no grounds to sue you or anyone else on this web site. THE TRUTH WILL PREVAIL.

The way it would work is SUWNY would be served with a notice of discovery asking your name. You would be notified, and have to find a lawyer to which you would need to pay a hefty retainer. Then you would have to prove that what you have claimed is true. The burden of proof is on you.

[Niagara]

Before all the "4thekids" "4UWS" and other effigies of the ML factor start to post, ever notice "Manuel" is the only one on that side of the board? And, "Manuel" my friend Guillermo wonders why a purebred white guy like you uses an Hispanic name.

Because at the time I chose it, someone was using the name Pedro, and I thought it was cute.
I think you people ought to think about future fun fests at other people's expense or follow the TOS which means support what you say.

[MERL J]

Because at the time I chose it, someone was using the name Pedro, and I thought it was cute.
I think you people ought to think about future fun fests at other people's expense or follow the TOS which means support what you say.

As far as any EEOC hearings, they are confidential until such time as the case is determined. Tell ya what, Manny, why don't you ask other people besides ML what they're all about. Why not file a FOIL with the TWS regarding these cases? You seem to have a great deal of time on your hands.

[CacTus]

We should be looking on how to rid West Seneca of ML......after the Town had to pay off the discrimination case ML caused, he is a loose cannon and we need to have someone run Americorp, certainly ML is not qualified. We are in for more litigation if he continues. ML doesn't play well in the "sandbox" with others. by the way,,,,,let's count the ways he get paid!

[snowwhite]

We should be looking on how to rid West Seneca of ML......after the Town had to pay off the discrimination case ML caused, he is a loose cannon and we need to have someone run Americorp, certainly ML is not qualified. We are in for more litigation if he continues. ML doesn't play well in the "sandbox" with others. by the way,,,,,let's count the ways he get paid!

That is why it is so important for everyone to attend the budget meeting on Wednesday night at 7 PM because if no one speaks up. ML will continue to recieve $82,000 in salary. This is obscene when you figure he only does the youth bureau job 5% of the time. The taxpayers are getting ripped off. He will be the first to admit that Americorp is his love and he isn't really interested in the youth bureau department. If the town was smart, they would strip him of his ex. director position with the youth bureau and let him walk with Americorp. the americorp program is a wonderful program but it is not run as it should be. With a new person at the helm, that program could be 10 times as good as it is now. But ML has the town board snowed. It's going to be funny when he is finally carted off the jail and the town board members who are supporting him are left trying to explain why they let him do what he did. If it was any other department who had as many law suits filed against the town as ML does, they would have been long gone. SO EVERYONE, PLEASE TRY TO ATTEND THE BUDGET MEETING ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT AT THE TOWN HALL AND VOICE YOUR OPINION ON HOW ML IS RIPPING OFF THE TAXPAYERS!

[Niagara]

we need to have someone run Americorp

Why would we need to do that when Americorp is not 'ours'. WS is only a pass through, and will be out of being a 'pass through' by 2011. That is only two years away, BTW.

[MERL J]

Why would we need to do that when Americorp is not 'ours'. WS is only a pass through, and will be out of being a 'pass through' by 2011. That is only two years away, BTW.

Manny, I see you are still the voice in the wilderness. Open your eyes before you are made a mockery from your loyalty to ML. Use your intelligence to do some research beyond what ML feeds you in the chair.

[snowwhite]

If Americorp was run the way it was designed to be run, WS could benefit from the program. But ML is all about publicity and running with the big boys in the City and making himself out to be such a hero. Look what he did to Manny. He can't even think straight after ML gets done with him! Maybe with new leadership, WS might want to keep the program here.

[MERL J]

If Americorp was run the way it was designed to be run, WS could benefit from the program. But ML is all about publicity and running with the big boys in the City and making himself out to be such a hero. Look what he did to Manny. He can't even think straight after ML gets done with him! Maybe with new leadership, WS might want to keep the program here.

Makes a lot of sense. There's an AmeriCorps program on the West Side that s successfully run. By having "pocket programs" all areas of WNY could be covered and more young peple can have the advantages. Therefore, WS could use an AmeriCorps, but it does need to have a distance from the YBureau - too much overlapping makes for too much confusion, which, IMHO, I think was designed by ML so he could pull in the YB salary PLUS his AC salary - talk about double-dipping!

[Niagara]

The taxpayers are getting ripped off.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1052440764269

This statement is defamatory. I get the impression either you have nothing to lose, or you do not comprehend the terms of service. Further, you should not put Mr. WNYRes at risk because he has not properly enforced his own terms of service. I got/get the impression neither of you comprehend the terms of service.

[MERL J]

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1052440764269

This statement is defamatory. I get the impression either you have nothing to lose, or you do not comprehend the terms of service. Further, you should not put Mr. WNYRes at risk because he has not properly enforced his own terms of service. I got/get the impression neither of you comprehend the terms of service.

Manny, this is a MESSAGE BOARD that obtains the attention of our elected officials. It is under our RIGHTS as American citizens to petition government. This is a form of that type of petitioning. To say that the taxpayers are getting ripped off is defamation or inflammatory is ridiculous as long as there is reasonable doubt or question - in this case there are a great deal of questions as the taxpayers are not given the entire story.

To prevent discourse and petitioning of government via threat of lawsuit bears a counter suit under the Anti-SLAPP legislation of NYS and the USA. If such a suit were started, it would be deemed frivilous and those persons being sued could, indeed, counter sue for damages and court costs.

Look it up.

[Niagara]

Look what he did to Manny. He can't even think straight

You are the one without a brain, or was that the tin man? Or was it his heart?
How are the Dwarfs doing. Will they be at the TB meeting too?

[MERL J]

Me to Manny:


Manny, this is a MESSAGE BOARD that obtains the attention of our elected officials. It is under our RIGHTS as American citizens to petition government. This is a form of that type of petitioning. To say that the taxpayers are getting ripped off is defamation or inflammatory is ridiculous as long as there is reasonable doubt or question - in this case there are a great deal of questions as the taxpayers are not given the entire story.

To prevent discourse and petitioning of government via threat of lawsuit bears a counter suit under the Anti-SLAPP legislation of NYS and the USA. If such a suit were started, it would be deemed frivilous and those persons being sued could, indeed, counter sue for damages and court costs.

Look it up.

Manny responding to Snowwhite:


You are the one without a brain, or was that the tin man? Or was it his heart?
How are the Dwarfs doing. Will they be at the TB meeting too?

See what happens when you bring out the facts to Manny - he starts with childish insults. If I didn't know who he was I would think he might be ML. Two peas in a pod.

[snowwhite]

Me to Manny:



Manny responding to Snowwhite:



See what happens when you bring out the facts to Manny - he starts with childish insults. If I didn't know who he was I would think he might be ML. Two peas in a pod.

And I am really getting tired of being threatened because I am putting forth information that the taxpayers should have but don't. When Manny doesn't know how to respond then he tries to shut us up.

[MERL J]

And I am really getting tired of being threatened because I am putting forth information that the taxpayers should have but don't. When Manny doesn't know how to respond then he tries to shut us up.

Snow, please google "Anti-SLAPP" it will provide you with the shield to deflect these annoyances - E-Z................

[Niagara]

Manny, this is a MESSAGE BOARD that obtains the attention of our elected officials. It is under our RIGHTS as American citizens to petition government. This is a form of that type of petitioning. To say that the taxpayers are getting ripped off is defamation or inflammatory is ridiculous as long as there is reasonable doubt or question - in this case there are a great deal of questions as the taxpayers are not given the entire story.

To prevent discourse and petitioning of government via threat of lawsuit bears a counter suit under the Anti-SLAPP legislation of NYS and the USA. If such a suit were started, it would be deemed frivilous and those persons being sued could, indeed, counter sue for damages and court costs.

Look it up.

I think quotes here abound which could be taken as libelous, especially from Ms. SW. Mr. Res should consult a lawyer on his responsibilities as owner of this board because he #1 did not write the TOS, and #2 has not demonstrated a working knowledge of what they contain.

[MERL J]

I think quotes here abound which could be taken as libelous, especially from Ms. SW. Mr. Res should consult a lawyer on his responsibilities as owner of this board because he #1 did not write the TOS, and #2 has not demonstrated a working knowledge of what they contain.

:rolleyes: :confused: :eek: :p:D:p:D:p:D :cool:

[Niagara]

And I am really getting tired of being threatened because I am putting forth information that the taxpayers should have but don't. When Manny doesn't know how to respond then he tries to shut us up.

What information. I have asked you to support your claims. Without that support your words are slanderous, the TOS says so. Get it though your thick head. Where are the links, picks, supporting signed documents (pdfs ok), etc. What don't you comprehend?
What you didn't like the tin man reference? I have a couple of Snow White/Dwarf jokes if you want to hear them.

[Niagara]

Snow, please google "Anti-SLAPP" it will provide you with the shield to deflect these annoyances - E-Z................

Go ahead Snow, google something, anything. Try and learn something. Just try.

[Niagara]

:rolleyes: :confused: :eek: :p:D:p:D:p:D :cool:

What is that supposed to be, a reply?

[yokes]

What information. I have asked you to support your claims. Without that support your words are slanderous, the TOS says so. Get it though your thick head. Where are the links, picks, supporting signed documents (pdfs ok), etc. What don't you comprehend?
What you didn't like the tin man reference? I have a couple of Snow White/Dwarf jokes if you want to hear them.


no they arent they are opinion.

[MERL J]

What information. I have asked you to support your claims. Without that support your words are slanderous, the TOS says so. Get it though your thick head. Where are the links, picks, supporting signed documents (pdfs ok), etc. What don't you comprehend?
What you didn't like the tin man reference? I have a couple of Snow White/Dwarf jokes if you want to hear them.

Oh, Manny, just stop yer jawwin', will ya?

http://www.fonchik.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/teeth.jpg

[snowwhite]

What information. I have asked you to support your claims. Without that support your words are slanderous, the TOS says so. Get it though your thick head. Where are the links, picks, supporting signed documents (pdfs ok), etc. What don't you comprehend?
What you didn't like the tin man reference? I have a couple of Snow White/Dwarf jokes if you want to hear them.

You know what really burns you up is that I have proof but you're not going to see it, unless we meet in court someday. These are are slanderous statements, they are my opinions based on the facts that I have. I am not required to support what I say because this is not a court of law, its a opinion based web site. So knock if off.

[Niagara]

no they arent they are opinion.

Some things can be considered opinion, but many things have been said as fact, but without support. Indeed, somethings might be true, or might not. Unfortunately, the TOS is clear and does not provide for might be true. The law would hold that a reasonable person might take something as possibly true if it is in the newspaper, PC for example. But even then, one should not comment as if there is already a conviction. Only after someone is convicted in court can people talk of some misdeed as fact. Without a newspaper article or link, but only some anonymous water cooler talk, and it repeated as fact as SW has done could be fairly costly. I admire DT because he can act as his own lawyer. Litigation can easily cost 30,000 lawyer's fee without judgement.

[MERL J]

You know what really burns you up is that I have proof but you're not going to see it, unless we meet in court someday. These are not slanderous statements, they are my opinions based on the facts that I have. I am not required to support what I say because this is not a court of law, its a opinion based web site. So knock if off.

Here, Manny, go here and read:

http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26751

[Niagara]

You know what really burns you up is that I have proof but you're not going to see it, unless we meet in court someday. These are are slanderous statements, they are my opinions based on the facts that I have. I am not required to support what I say because this is not a court of law, its a opinion based web site. So knock if off.

No, you should not be stating them as fact without providing them for all to see. Mr. REs, I suggest you discuss this with your member. You are required to support what you say because you are on a web site with a terms of service which says you have to. Are you too dense to understand that?

[yokes]

Some things can be considered opinion, but many things have been said as fact, but without support. Indeed, somethings might be true, or might not. Unfortunately, the TOS is clear and does not provide for might be true. The law would hold that a reasonable person might take something as possibly true if it is in the newspaper, PC for example. But even then, one should not comment as if there is already a conviction. Only after someone is convicted in court can people talk of some misdeed as fact. Without a newspaper article or link, but only some anonymous water cooler talk, and it repeated as fact as SW has done could be fairly costly. I admire DT because he can act as his own lawyer. Litigation can easily cost 30,000 lawyer's fee without judgement.

$30000 wow. is that a threat?

Are you planning to sue SUWNY?

[Niagara]

Are you planning to sue SUWNY?

I have no legal standing to sue anyone. The injured party has legal standing.
Go read a legal book. I am not a law professor.

[MERL J]

$30000 wow. is that a threat?

Are you planning to sue SUWNY?

Yokes, this guy can't even do his own research. Idle minds push idle threats. And, as I said, Anti-SLAPP legislation can take it.

[yokes]

I have no legal standing to sue anyone. The injured party has legal standing.
Go read a legal book. I am not a law professor.

I understand completely. just wanted to make sure you did.

[WNYresident]

Why would we need to do that when Americorp is not 'ours'. WS is only a pass through, and will be out of being a 'pass through' by 2011. That is only two years away, BTW.

TWO YEARS!.. cut the cord now...

[Niagara]

TWO YEARS!.. cut the cord now...

Because the grants run through the end of 2010.
BTW, how about enforcing the terms of service.

[MERL J]

What is that supposed to be, a reply?

yup - reaction after reaction done cartoon style for your pleasure

[Niagara]

yup - reaction after reaction done cartoon style for your pleasure

For your pleasure,

The 7 Dwarfs go to the Vatican and, because they are the 7 Dwarfs, they are immediately ushered in to see the Pope. Grumpy leads the pack.
'Grumpy, my son,' says the Pope, 'What can I do for you?'
Grumpy asks, 'Excuse me your Excellency, but are there any dwarf nuns in Rome ?'
The Pope wrinkles his brow at the odd question, thinks for a moment and answers, 'No, Grumpy, there are no dwarf nuns in Rome .
In the background, a few of the dwarfs start giggling.
Grumpy turns around and glares, silencing them.
Grumpy turns back, 'Your Worship, are there any dwarf nuns in all of Europe ?'
The Pope, puzzled now, again thinks for a moment and then answers, 'No, Grumpy, there are no dwarf nuns in Europe
This time, all of the other dwarfs burst into laughter.
Once again, Grumpy turns around and silences them with an angry glare
Grumpy turns back and says, 'Mr. Pope! Are there ANY dwarf nuns anywhere in the world?'
The Pope, really confused by the questions says, 'I'm sorry, my son, there are no dwarf nuns anywhere in the world.'
The other dwarfs collapse into a heap, rolling and laughing, pounding the floor, tears rolling down their cheeks, as they begin chanting.....
'Grumpy did a penguin!'
'Grumpy did a penguin!'

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7888/2168/320/6.%20snow%20white%20and%207%20dwarves.jpg

[WNYresident]

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1052440764269

This statement is defamatory. I get the impression either you have nothing to lose, or you do not comprehend the terms of service. Further, you should not put Mr. WNYRes at risk because he has not properly enforced his own terms of service. I got/get the impression neither of you comprehend the terms of service.


We are getting ripped off on a lot of the programs we pay for. Do you actually live in WNY or are you just yanking our change..

You think you are trying to line me up or anyone up for that matter?

What do you wanna know? Tell me?

Most people in the private sector do more on their lunch break than a lot of "appointed" people in WNY government.

[WNYresident]

Because the grants run through the end of 2010.
BTW, how about enforcing the terms of service.

How much in grants are slated to come in from today until 2010?

[Niagara]

Have it your way- don't debate Snow White on the principles (or lack thereof) she raises in his/her posts... I don't care if it's a smear or not

Evidently Res you do not care if SW follows your TOS either.
For the information details you request, ask SW, she knows everything.

[Niagara]

We are getting ripped off on a lot of the programs we pay for. Do you actually live in WNY or are you just yanking our change..

You think you are trying to line me up or anyone up for that matter?

What do you wanna know? Tell me?

Most people in the private sector do more on their lunch break than a lot of "appointed" people in WNY government.

I want efficiency in government as much as you. I am very conservative, but I appreciate that there are inefficiencies in government also. FDR's WPA was very inefficient. The military is inefficient. Welfare is inefficient. Medicare is inefficient. Peacecorp is inefficient, and so is Americorp. Has anyone ever calculated the amount of PEACE derived from a Peacecorp dollar? You have never tried to go half way and listen to the other side. I suggested you go to the Burchfield and meet ML, but you said you are too busy. In fact you banned the person in question. You are one sided in your outlook and in your management of this board.
And yes I am very local.

[buffalofamily]

From the town board meeting minutes:


Councilman Graber commented that the City of Buffalo, Town of Cheektowaga, and many other others would love to have AmeriCorps located in their municipality. As a lifelong Buffalo resident, I would not want this mismanaged program in my city. It's has also been used as a political grandstanding tool by Mark J.F. Schroeder for years.

It could be a great community asset, but not with the likes of ML running it.

Also from the board meeting:


The not-for-profit will be responsible for all vehicles and insurance, including providing a car for Executive Director Mark Lazzara. He was taking on the responsibility and did not want the town to pay for his vehicle any longer, the grant money would pay for it. What? He makes $82,000.00! Why should he have a vehicle. They have a gas guzzling SUV with expensive Americorp advertising painted all over it. How is he personally taking care of it? Grant money! Not his own money, like we all have to do when we go to work.

BF

[WNYresident]

Councilman Graber commented that the City of Buffalo, Town of Cheektowaga, and many other others would love to have AmeriCorps located in their municipality.

No they wouldn't and he should speak how others believe their money should be spent. We pay town employees more than enough to clean up parks. I still believe we should make ALL government employees where colored jump suits so we know who they are... :)


The not-for-profit will be responsible for all vehicles and insurance, including providing a car for Executive Director Mark Lazzara. He was taking on the responsibility and did not want the town to pay for his vehicle any longer, the grant money would pay for it.

Taking on the responsibility? That means PAY your own way buddy.

Honestly I can sit here and can't think of anything the americorps have done for me or nieghbors..I suppose they are helping someone.

I would not want cheektowaga to be the pass threw for any federal program where the budget can exceed the passthru amount. FUNDING stops when the federal dollars runs out. Simple as that.

[FisherRd]

Manny,
****-house lawyers are a joke. You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to any legal ramifications. It shouldn't come as a surprise to you though because you're used to talking out of your ass.

Facts are ML mismanaged AC, and the West Seneca taxpayer is on the hook for over $3,000,000 because of it. Instead of lapping up the propaganda he's feeding you perhaps you could ask him about that 3 million bucks? That is after you get him his Sainthood, which isn't the least bit creepy...

[WNYresident]

So is there $3 million coming from the federal government soon? It will help the residents of WS.

2000 census shows about 46,000 people...

That's about $65 owed to each person.

[Niagara]

Manny,
****-house lawyers are a joke. You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to any legal ramifications. It shouldn't come as a surprise to you though because you're used to talking out of your ass.




I didn't write the TOS. I violate them constantly. "therising" (another poster) and I were claiming we wrote the TOS just to piss off the poster that really did.
Hi Fisher, lets see which TOS you violated this time. I would say these two:

2. Offering your opinion on a given topic and debating is encouraged as
long as it is done respectfully. If you disagree with a person's opinion,
disagree and provide supporting reasons why you disagree.

3. ..."Baiting" (making posts for the sole purpose of provoking conflict) is expressly forbidden as well.
Interesting information that the REs did not write the TOS which he obviously selectively enforces, probably because he doesn't know what they are except 'naughty language' which is caught by computer script filters.

[WNYresident]

Manual..

why not tell us exactly what americorps has accomplished in WNY.

What can I go see and say... wow good job?

[FisherRd]

Where can I see the results in West Seneca for the $3,000,000 we gave him? Surely the car repair that was necessary after his daughters accident didn't cost that much!

[Niagara]

Manual..

why not tell us exactly what americorps has accomplished in WNY.

What can I go see and say... wow good job?

Why, oh why do you not enforce your own terms of service. It is a legal document with obligations in both directions, owner subscriber. No I am not a lawyer, but I think that much of law is just common sense.
Neither am I an Americorp representitive. I just think there is NO ONE here representing them. This looks just like alot of piling on, including you of all people.

[WNYresident]

Why, oh why do you not enforce your own terms of service. It is a legal document with obligations in both directions, owner subscriber. No I am not a lawyer, but I think that much of law is just common sense.
Neither am I an Americorp representitive. I just think there is NO ONE here representing them. This looks just like alot of piling on, including you of all people.


You try and try to twist it to make it sound like their is "liability" attached to someone's opinion. Months ago someone called here and told me that there was a rumor that ML was trying to figure out a way to sue me/speakup or the people posting.

Lets keep this simple.

Is it a federal program yes or no....

Was any MONEY at all taken from the local general fund of West Seneca property tax payers and given to the federal program? Means they paid twice for a program most only had to pay once for.

Who were the people that allowed millions ( 3 million as rumor states) to leave the ws coffers for this federal program? Someone had to sign off on this.

Is there 3 million sitting in a federal account that hasn't been delivered yet? If there is no one should be complaining but should be on the phone getting the resident's money from the feds.

[WNYresident]

Why, oh why do you not enforce your own terms of service. It is a legal document with obligations in both directions, owner subscriber. No I am not a lawyer, but I think that much of law is just common sense.
Neither am I an Americorp representitive. I just think there is NO ONE here representing them. This looks just like alot of piling on, including you of all people.

I am enforcing the terms of service. It's called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

[Niagara]

I am enforcing the terms of service. It's called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Basicly, you are saying that you are not enforcing your board's terms of service, unless it pleases you.
You work on 'I will know it if I see it kind of an offense policeman.'
You would be a good SC Justice, kind of a living document kind of guy.

[WNYresident]

Basicly, you are saying that you are not enforcing your board's terms of service, unless it pleases you.
You work on 'I will know it if I see it kind of an offense policeman.'
You would be a good SC Justice, kind of a living document kind of guy.

how about this.

Stick to the topic.

WERE funds that were paid from the west seneca TAXPAYERS used to FLOAT a federal program which stopped sending funding over?

YES OR NO.

IF you would like to start a clean thread about the TOS go ahead.

[Niagara]

how about this.

Stick to the topic.


No, I will not stick to the topic. Sticking to the topic is not part of the TOS.
Why do you not enforce it?

[WNYresident]

No, I will not stick to the topic. Sticking to the topic is not part of the TOS.
Why do you not enforce it?


So apparently there really is money that was used from the hard working people of WS for a federal program? MEans they PAID twice for it. It's tough enough providing for your family more or less getting billed twice.

Do you approve of that?

[FisherRd]

How dumb does one have to be in order to believe that the SUWNY TOS is a legal document?

[WNYresident]

How dumb does one have to be in order to believe that the SUWNY TOS is a legal document?

You have town board members who may or may not have given someone up to $3 million dollars. There's a possiblity there are really stupid people.

[Niagara]

You have town board members who may or may not have given someone up to $3 million dollars. There's a possiblity there are really stupid people.

Now that is being a good example. 'may or may not' 'possibility there are' is the way you should say things.
Now, how about demanding the same from your resident posters as dictated by your terms of service, or request them to post proof. Would that be too hard?

[Niagara]

How dumb does one have to be in order to believe that the SUWNY TOS is a legal document?

You are a dumb ass to think that it is not.

[Niagara]

So apparently there really is money that was used from the hard working people of WS for a federal program?

What is apparent? Money transfer? You seem to have a hard time with the concept of reimbursement which may be forthcoming.

[WNYresident]

You are a dumb ass to think that it is not.

EVen more of a dumb ass to think $3 mil is not important. That's $65 per person if a town had a population of about 46,000. I think it's impossible to have happened because a town board of any town could not be so STUPID and careless with people hard earned money.

[Niagara]

EVen more of a dumb ass to think $3 mil is not important.

Now where did you get the idea that $3 mil was not important? That is not the issue. Do you want to run a high end internet forum or not. If you do, do not put words into people's mouths and follow the TOS which written for you. No doubt they were copped off of another site which had its **** together.

[MERL J]

Now where did you get the idea that $3 mil was not important? That is not the issue. Do you want to run a high end internet forum or not. If you do, do not put words into people's mouths and follow the TOS which written for you. No doubt they were copped off of another site which had its **** together.

So, Manny, when are you going to ask Res' questions? You don't know the answers, do you? Only have half the story, eh?

[OldTymeRevival]

So, Manny, when are you going to ask Res' questions? You don't know the answers, do you? Only have half the story, eh?

Sounds like someone's having a bad day with his TOS query- there are people out there that take pills for conditions that cause this sort of deficit/malady. It's some sort of psychotic obsession!

[GhostofCharles]

Now where did you get the idea that $3 mil was not important? That is not the issue. Do you want to run a high end internet forum or not. If you do, do not put words into people's mouths and follow the TOS which written for you. No doubt they were copped off of another site which had its **** together.

Ok Manny, today is your lucky day. First of all I refer you to the quote from Comptroller Bielecki that started this thread. As yet, the money has not been paid back.

However, if you want an example of how this has been accomplished, I refer you to a voucher, on WS Youth Bureau (not Americorp) letterhead in which employees of Americorps asked the Town of West Seneca to pay off their credit card balance. Yes all of the Program Directors for Americorps have (or had, not sure if this has been resolved yet), Town of West Seneca Credit Cards where they are free to charge at will.

I am sorry this is a little dated, but will provide some insight into the current situation:

In February of this year, Americorps charged and had paid off for them (courtesy of WS Taxpayers) $38,335.00. In March $22,207.42, which included over $700.00 in cash advances.

Now when the Comptroller was asked to provide the back up documentation to show what these charges were (receipts, etc) they could not provide any because they (the Comptroller's Office) never required them in the past.

When this is done over and over again for 3 years, with no one adding up the totals at the end of the year, it is easy for someone to get away with overspending. Especially when Mr. Bielecki's predecessor was told to look the other way.

Now if you would like to see a copy of the 32 page credit card statement which includes $1600 hotel stays (about $270.00 a night) and $360.00 dinners, I would be happy to scan it for you and post it.

[Niagara]

Sounds like someone's having a bad day with his TOS query- there are people out there that take pills for conditions that cause this sort of deficit/malady. It's some sort of psychotic obsession!

This is the Twilight Zone where asking for someone to support what they say in a public arena is considered a malady or deficit disorder.
To think that it is actually part of the Terms of Service which are ignored by the owner of the website.

[Niagara]

I would be happy to scan it for you and post it.

Sure, scan it and post it.

[MERL J]

Sure, scan it and post it.

I would also like to know what is up with the WNY AmeriCorps Fund. This is the fundraising vehicle for the organization. However, the last 990 they filed was in 2006 and had no income whatsoever. Think I'm making this up?

Here ya go, Manny:

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2006_0371A091.PDF

[MERL J]

Here's 2005:

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2005_026D9CD6.PDF

Here's 2002:

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2002_00883c23.PDF

Here's 2001:

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2001_00888809.PDF

No files are found for 2003 or 2004 and, no money has ever been noted in any of the years they have filed. What is this org for? Why haven't they used this to raise needed funding? Why do they use it when asking for funding in name only?

[Niagara]

I would also like to know what is up with the WNY AmeriCorps Fund. This is the fundraising vehicle for the organization. However, the last 990 they filed was in 2006 and had no income whatsoever. Think I'm making this up?

Here ya go, Manny:

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2006_0371A091.PDF

My guess is the reason the number is zero is because until recently all money passed through the town.
2006 tax return.
Koller was the previous comptroller. Before him someone else. Bielicki is new. No idea as to his qualifications.
Why not call Koller. Looks like you stole the documents from his office, or got copies from the IRS (stamped Ogden UT). How you were able to get tax return copy is interesting, and possibly illegal.
I see no smoking gun here though.

[MERL J]

My guess is the reason the number is zero is because until recently all money passed through the town.
2006 tax return.

Why is it used? Do you want to see the certificate of incorporation. I've got it!

Just let me know how to attach a .pdf

Where is the 2007 return?

Why do they have a checking account if nothing is filed?

[MERL J]

How you were able to get tax return copy is interesting, and possibly illegal.

Nonprofit 990s are public record and can be retrieved online through various sources - legally. Ya know, Manny, you really need to pull back on the "illegal" crap until you get to know what you're talking about. Stick to your "chosen profession." And, BTW, how's that going? Seems you have a lot of time on your hands, dear.

What really SLAYS ME is that he yells for documentation - you give it to him and he pulls this crap. What are you getting from WNY AC/ML/whomever to blind you so to just one side of the story?

[Niagara]

Especially when Mr. Bielecki's predecessor was told to look the other way.


I think you should be expected to prove this statement. I think the only one who could do that would be Mr. Koller himself or previous comptrollers.

[MERL J]

Ok Manny, today is your lucky day. First of all I refer you to the quote from Comptroller Bielecki that started this thread. As yet, the money has not been paid back.

However, if you want an example of how this has been accomplished, I refer you to a voucher, on WS Youth Bureau (not Americorp) letterhead in which employees of Americorps asked the Town of West Seneca to pay off their credit card balance. Yes all of the Program Directors for Americorps have (or had, not sure if this has been resolved yet), Town of West Seneca Credit Cards where they are free to charge at will.

I am sorry this is a little dated, but will provide some insight into the current situation:

In February of this year, Americorps charged and had paid off for them (courtesy of WS Taxpayers) $38,335.00. In March $22,207.42, which included over $700.00 in cash advances.

Now when the Comptroller was asked to provide the back up documentation to show what these charges were (receipts, etc) they could not provide any because they (the Comptroller's Office) never required them in the past.

When this is done over and over again for 3 years, with no one adding up the totals at the end of the year, it is easy for someone to get away with overspending. Especially when Mr. Bielecki's predecessor was told to look the other way.

Now if you would like to see a copy of the 32 page credit card statement which includes $1600 hotel stays (about $270.00 a night) and $360.00 dinners, I would be happy to scan it for you and post it.

Oh, Please, Ghost - scan it - scan it - it's too delicious not to see! I also want to see Manny eat crow.

[Niagara]

Why is it used? Do you want to see the certificate of incorporation. I've got it!

Just let me know how to attach a .pdf

Where is the 2007 return?

Why do they have a checking account if nothing is filed?

Basicly, sorry, but you have alot of pdf paper. Nothing.

[Niagara]

Oh, Please, Ghost - scan it - scan it - it's too delicious not to see! I also want to see Manny eat crow.

Nice to see credit card statements, but again nothing. Oh please post all grant income statements vs expense statements. Even then who would know if they were complete. All you guys are doing is looking like a bunch of thieves.

Get your glorious leader Wally P/Shiela Meeghan to produce the documents, all of them.
Also, ask them what back room deals were made with regard to the 8 pad ice rink and community center.

[MERL J]

Nice to see credit card statements, but again nothing. Oh please post all grant income statements vs expense statements. Even then who would know if they were complete. All you guys are doing is looking like a bunch of thieves.

Get your glorious leader Wally P/Shiela Meeghan to produce the documents, all of them.
Also, ask them what back room deals were made with regard to the 8 pad ice rink and community center.

Ah, there you go again, Manny - twisting away from the topic at hand - everytime you're given information or even now with documentation. You're a scared little bunny, ain't ya? Threatening frivilous lawsuits. Stating the IRS returns were obtained illegally. Such a dolt-mided effort to cloud the issue at hand - $3M fronted by the town and not recompensed. If I were you I would be incensed, not scrapping the dirt up to cover the ills.

Meeghan or Piotrowski are not my leaders - they are yours. You go for the FOIL request - you seem to have a lot of time on your hands. But, you're afraid fo the truth - as a matter of fact - you can't handle the truth. Why is that?

[Niagara]

Ah, there you go again, Manny - twisting away from the topic at hand - everytime you're given information or even now with documentation. You're a scared little bunny, ain't ya? Threatening frivilous lawsuits. Stating the IRS returns were obtained illegally. Such a dolt-mided effort to cloud the issue at hand - $3M fronted by the town and not recompensed. If I were you I would be incensed, not scrapping the dirt up to cover the ills.

Meeghan or Piotrowski are not my leaders - they are yours. You go for the FOIL request - you seem to have a lot of time on your hands. But, you're afraid fo the truth - as a matter of fact - you can't handle the truth. Why is that?

I am sorry MERL you do not like my response to your work. I know it took awhile to put together/steal. The problem is when you are talking numbers, either the numbers are accurate and complete, or they are not. I do not have alot of time on my hands. Actually, the opposite. I have never done a FOIL, wouldn't know how. Further, you will never piece together a complete set of records through FOIL requests. Really, you should not have to do anything other than ask WP/SM for the information. Let them provide the truth.

[MERL J]

II know it took awhile to put together/steal.

Why, not at all, Manny - here's the link to all 990's in the 14224 zip code:

http://nccsdataweb.urban.org/PubApps/990search.php

As you can see, even the WS Soccer Club made and reported money. Why not a multi-million dollar org like the WNY AmeriCorps Fund?

Ya see, when ya know yer ****, you can provide public domain information at the drop of a hat. Only took me 12 minutes total. Don't worry though, it's a gift to you!

(now, quick, ask ML what you should type next...)

[FisherRd]

This is the Twilight Zone where asking for someone to support what they say in a public arena is considered a malady or deficit disorder.
To think that it is actually part of the Terms of Service which are ignored by the owner of the website.

So support your contention that the TOS at SUWNY is a legal document stupid.

[Niagara]

So support your contention that the TOS at SUWNY is a legal document stupid.

Suppose you have a property and did not want people to trespass. You would post 'No Trespassing' signs around the perimeter. The fact that you posted those 'legal documents' would allow you to have a trespasser arrested. Same with no parking signs. No, you do not have to have people arrested, but you could. Now in the case of TOS, if a person is libeled because a false statement is publicly made, in my opinion, the libelous statement would be actionable. The web site operator could also face action, especially if it were shown the operator was knowledgable of said statements, did nothing to stop them, and indeed forbade them in his own TOS. It might be taken that the owner endorsed/committed libel. He would be better off having no terms of service than ignoring it.
Thanks for calling me stupid. Not. I really wish you would stop it. It has gotten old long ago. Ignorant behavior, or the inability to follow an arguement speaks for itself. It is what it is.

[Niagara]

Why, not at all, Manny - here's the link to all 990's in the 14224 zip code:
http://nccsdataweb.urban.org/PubApps/990search.php
As you can see, even the WS Soccer Club made and reported money. Why not a multi-million dollar org like the WNY AmeriCorps Fund?
Ya see, when ya know yer ****, you can provide public domain information at the drop of a hat. Only took me 12 minutes total. Don't worry though, it's a gift to you!

If you mean to say you know how to use Google, good for you. Nice toy isn't it. I use it all the time. Now for the information you uncovered, so what. Information is only important in context with ALL the information. Then there is the ability to interpret the information, which you do not have. It is like a rock. Pretty rock MERL.

[WNYresident]

You have to admit:

Before speakup community items in general wouldn't be discussed...

Think about the crap people in elected positions got away with before TV, and the internet....

[MERL J]

A message board is a form of communication and a way to express opinion, especially on issues that affect the community-at-large. It is, in affect, a "call-to-action" on the part of the people.

Under the Bill of Rights we have the right to petition government and also have the freedom of expression regarding the rights and opinions of ourselves and others.

Your constant harrangue of illegality is moot. The more you push, the more documentation will surface and even more will be willing to join in with the push for what is right for the people of West Seneca and WNY.

So, thanks, for getting people involved. You're more a part of the movement than you wish.

[snowwhite]

I am sorry MERL you do not like my response to your work. I know it took awhile to put together/steal. The problem is when you are talking numbers, either the numbers are accurate and complete, or they are not. I do not have alot of time on my hands. Actually, the opposite. I have never done a FOIL, wouldn't know how. Further, you will never piece together a complete set of records through FOIL requests. Really, you should not have to do anything other than ask WP/SM for the information. Let them provide the truth.

Manny, I can't believe how untrusting you are. It's easy to do a FOIL, all you need to do is fill out a FOIL request and either mail it or drop it off at the attorney's office and within 30 days, you will have the proof we are talking about. You can even download the form off the WS web site. How much easier is that? But if you don't trust what is right in front of your face, then don't bother. You are too blind to the facts becaue they involve ML and don't forget, he's a saint!

[MERL J]

If you mean to say you know how to use Google, good for you. Nice toy isn't it. I use it all the time. Now for the information you uncovered, so what. Information is only important in context with ALL the information. Then there is the ability to interpret the information, which you do not have. It is like a rock. Pretty rock MERL.

Then "google" the answers you seek, grasshopper. We're not your receptionist or secretary. As I said before, you seem to have a great deal of time on your hands.

[MERL J]

You have to admit:

Before speakup community items in general wouldn't be discussed...

Think about the crap people in elected positions got away with before TV, and the internet....

Absolutely - boards like this allow for freedom of expression and provide a pathway for the masses to petition government without fear of retribution. Any threat to that goes against "Public Participation." BTW - that's what SLAPP stands for - Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation"

Thanks for the forum, Res.

[MERL J]

Manny, I can't believe how untrusting you are. It's easy to do a FOIL, all you need to do is fill out a FOIL request and either mail it or drop it off at the attorney's office and within 30 days, you will have the proof we are talking about. You can even download the form off the WS web site. How much easier is that? But if you don't trust what is right in front of your face, then don't bother. You are too blind to the facts becaue they involve ML and don't forget, he's a saint!

10-4 - but, then again, it might give him the truths he does not wish to face - Oh, Horrors and just in time for All Hallows Eve!

[Niagara]

Then "google" the answers you seek, grasshopper. We're not your receptionist or secretary. As I said before, you seem to have a great deal of time on your hands.

As I said I use Google all the time. My questions are not your questions.

[Niagara]

don't forget, he's a saint!

Do you want to hear a few googled Snow White jokes? How about a few Dwarf jokes?

[snowwhite]

Do you want to hear a few googled Snow White jokes? How about a few Dwarf jokes?

Always avoiding the issues at hand. Ha, Ha

[MERL J]

Furthermore:

Truth in the Eye of the Beholder
The problem, of course, is that no one except God can consistently and correctly distinguish between "correct" and "incorrect" views. "Who knows what the hell that is?" asks Tom Newton of the California Newspaper Publishers Association. "Scientists say there is no such thing as reliable scientific fact, that science is based on hypothesis and conclusions, and is ever-changing."

Such is the case of "reckless disregard" of which there has been none on this board.

[MERL J]

Do you want to hear a few googled Snow White jokes? How about a few Dwarf jokes?

Again, such a dolt - when faced with unequivocable fact, it seems Manny resorts to sophmoric action. Alas................reminds me of someone else.

Sorta like when a grown man asks: "Can my pulchritudinous friend come in a second?" of a young man in his 20's working for him, eh?

[Niagara]

Again, such a dolt - when faced with unequivocable fact, it seems Manny resorts to sophmoric action. Alas................reminds me of someone else.

Who is that.... Fisher Rd?

And what, nobody likes Disney jokes?

[MERL J]

Who is that Fisher Rd?

See my edit above, report to your master, then ask again.

[OldTymeRevival]

This is the Twilight Zone where asking for someone to support what they say in a public arena is considered a malady or deficit disorder.
To think that it is actually part of the Terms of Service which are ignored by the owner of the website.

Are you freaking serious- you made your point on the TOS, now give it the heck up and stay with the topic. Res is right, if you want to debate the TOS, start a new thread! Or just find another site to skulk around! You make yourself an annoyance and nobody really wants to tangle with you- no body likes you, Doc.

[FisherRd]

in my opinion
Thanks for calling me stupid. Not. I really wish you would stop it. It has gotten old long ago. Ignorant behavior, or the inability to follow an arguement speaks for itself. It is what it is.


It was obvious that it was your opinion from the get go, there was no need to actually state it. The TOS at SUWNY is not a "legal document", it's the rules of the board. Two totally different things. Pretending as if you're a lawyer is pathetic. Nobody is afraid of getting sued over a comment on a message board. If you think you or that tool Lazzarra have a case then bring it. You're like two grammar school kids saying "I know karate" thinking it will keep you out of trouble.

What is it with cry babies that call other people names and taunt other posters crying about it when it comes back their way?

[Niagara]

The TOS at SUWNY is not a "legal document", it's the rules of the board.
What you write whether it be on an internet forum, email, or paper can be referred to in court, and in that situation can be referred to as a legal document...evidence.



Nobody is afraid of getting sued over a comment on a message board.
If that were the case, why would the TOS on another well run Canadian message board
http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/
have this disclaimer?


We at Mapleleafweb.com also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.




What is it with cry babies that call other people names and taunt other posters crying about it when it comes back their way?

Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent .....Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted.
Insults are certainly permitted here, FisherRd is proof to that.



If you are stating a fact, be prepared to back it up with some official sources (websites, links etc).... Therefore, it is in your best interest to make sure that your post includes sufficient sources and contains a well-researched and well-organized argument
Mapleleafweb.com will attempt to monitor the content of the postings and reserves the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever.
My point is you should back up what you say with information. That information (links, etc) can in turn be digested by others, and there can be intelligent discussion of the topic.

[Steiny]

What you write whether it be on an internet forum, email, or paper can be referred to in court, and in that situation can be referred to as a legal document...evidence.


If that were the case, why would the TOS on another well run Canadian message board
http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/
have this disclaimer?





Insults are certainly permitted here, FisherRd is proof to that.


My point is you should back up what you say with information. That information (links, etc) can in turn be digested by others, and there can be intelligent discussion of the topic.


Yes, Insults are allowed, but is it nice and professional to engage in that type of negetive non-construction, non helpful, non-educational behavior and activity?

I will never seek to that level.

[FisherRd]

What you write whether it be on an internet forum, email, or paper can be referred to in court, and in that situation can be referred to as a legal document...evidence.

No, it's not a legal document, no matter how hard you try to twist it. You are really making yourself look stupid by pursuing this.
If that were the case, why would the TOS on another well run Canadian message board
http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/
have this disclaimer?


I can find a website that says anything you want, how is that proof of anything? Perhaps you could show me actual proof that the TOS here on SUWNY is a "legal document"? I mean I'd hate to hold you to your own standard.


Insults are certainly permitted here, FisherRd is proof to that.
Poor baby. You're just used to picking on the women here. What's the matter buttercup, you don't like people responding in kind?

My point is you should back up what you say with information. That information (links, etc) can in turn be digested by others, and there can be intelligent discussion of the topic.

So supply a real link showing the TOS here is a "legal document" and furthermore explain what "law" I've broken.

[FisherRd]

Yes, Insults are allowed, but is it nice and professional to engage in that type of negetive non-construction, non helpful, non-educational behavior and activity?

I will never seek to that level.

You're insulted every time you look in the mirror and see white skin. Who are you kidding?

[Niagara]

So supply a real link showing the TOS here is a "legal document" and furthermore explain what "law" I've broken.

If you do not take TOS as a legal document, so what. With regard to laws broken, why try and explain, it would go over your head. It is like trying to correct a child.

The Res on the other hand, being the owner of the web site, supposed to act as the parent, but he hardly acts the part. His favorite son Fisher Rd can say and do anything he wants.

[FisherRd]

If you do not take TOS as a legal document, so what. With regard to laws broken, why try and explain, it would go over your head. It is like trying to correct a child.

The Res on the other hand, being the owner of the web site, supposed to act as the parent, but he hardly acts the part. His favorite son Fisher Rd can say and do anything he wants.

I don't see a link or any proof that the TOS is a legal doocument. Are you incapable of doing what you ask others to do?

It's not hard manny, simply provide a link to any legal website or even the one we're currently on that explains how a TOS on a message board is a legal document. It would seem that it would be easy if it were true.


Just think, if you would have simply admitted you were talking out of your ass when you called Woody's TOS a legal document this whole thing would be behind you now and you could address the ass kicking that Merl and snowwhite are giving you and Mark.

[WNYresident]

What does the TOS have to do with the possible WS property tax money being transferred to a federal program?

[Steiny]

You're insulted every time you look in the mirror and see white skin. Who are you kidding?

White? Yawn~~ Yawn

Anyone see the snow today? The sun did peak through for a bit :)

What a nice postive day everyone! :)

[Niagara]

What does the TOS have to do with the possible WS property tax money being transferred to a federal program?

Here is what it has to do with it. There has been no link as to that happening. To say that there is 3 mil in arrears is fine, I just asked awhile back for a link. NONE. Normal message boards have in their terms of service a request at least that statements be supported by proof. Tax returns with nothing on them, and 32 pages of master card statements has nothing to do with proof that there has been local money transferred to the federal government, and not vice versa. To say it is a fact is a violation of your terms of service.
That is nothing to say your ignoring bad language.
How many times do I have to repeat myself before you comprehend?
TOS=proof
no proof=violation of TOS
violation=moderator action

[MERL J]

Tax returns with nothing on them...

Yes, tax returns with nothing on them. Why? Certainly the "Fund" has acquired some monies since 2001. And, as of the 2007 return year, organizations that make under $25,000 can post a 990 post card return. Nothing. Zilch. Nada.

These are the responsible people utilizing advance money from the Town? Why hasn't the "Fund" been the pass-through for all the grants? Why hasn't it been utilized to obtain additional funding for the multitude of projects WNY AC has seemingly boasted and bandied about? Nope, nothing on the returns and nothing done to acquire basic operational funds for the organization.

Tell you what. Go to www.erie.gov, select the Clerk's site, select "Online Records," then type in Western New York AmeriCorps Fund. Look at the description of the "TOS" described therein. You'll see evidence of some sort of org that has yet to perform those terms.

[Niagara]

Yes, tax returns with nothing on them.

I suggest that you, if you are so inclined, go to the supervisor and ask him. Ask the comptroller, and the previous comptroller where the reimbursement funds are documented. There sure have been funds coming from the federal government. I think it is pretty safe to say that WS has not funded Americorp for 15 years.
Then when you get ahold of the reimbursement funds figures, get ahold of the expenditure figures. Compare them, better still have someone knowledgable in accounting compare them.
Until that has happened, and there should be nothing standing in your way, all yak yak here is moot.

Merl, I guess you are female with your Palin avatar.

[Niagara]

when you called Woody's TOS

You mean Woodstock wrote the TOS? She tried, but Mr. Resident never bothered to read it I guess.
No wonder she isn't around anymore.

[Niagara]

The former town attorney Mr. Greenan was present and gave a lot of information on the Americorps/Youth bureau and its interrelation to the town and the grants.


Did everybody get the answers to their questions?

[buffalofamily]

Yes, tax returns with nothing on them. Why? Certainly the "Fund" has acquired some monies since 2001. And, as of the 2007 return year, organizations that make under $25,000 can post a 990 post card return. Nothing. Zilch. Nada.


For their 2006 990 they filed for extension:

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2006_0371A091.PDF


For their 2005 990 they filed for extension :

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2005_026D9CD6.PDF


For 2004 and 2003 - I could not locate a 990 file online.


For 2002 They filed $0.00

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2002_00883c23.PDF


For 2001 they filed their Inital Return and filed $0.00

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2001_00888809.PDF

BF

[MERL J]

For their 2006 990 they filed for extension:

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2006_0371A091.PDF


For their 2005 990 they filed for extension :

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2005_026D9CD6.PDF


For 2004 and 2003 - I could not locate a 990 file online.


For 2002 They filed $0.00

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2002_00883c23.PDF


For 2001 they filed their Inital Return and filed $0.00

http://204.203.220.33/EINS/161596462/161596462_2001_00888809.PDF

BF


Yeah, I posted these earlier in the thread. No note of the results of the extensions, either.

[Niagara]

Did everybody get the answers to their questions?

Evidently Manuel, they did not ask Mr. Greenan any questions to get answers from.

[Comet]

Evidently Manuel, they did not ask Mr. Greenan any questions to get answers from.

Seriously, are you talking to yourself?

Or do you have another userid that you thought you were posting under???

:rolleyes:

[FisherRd]

Or do you have another userid that you thought you were posting under???

:rolleyes:


Who knows, but you'd think one of the ID's he uses would be able to provide a credible link showing the TOS here is a Legal Document.

More "do as I say, not as I do" from Lazzarra...errrr....Manny.

[Niagara]

Seriously, are you talking to yourself?

Or do you have another userid that you thought you were posting under???

:rolleyes:

No, just thought I would answer my own serious question. It just seemed that it would have been just too easy to ask those questions which have been asked over and over here. But, I guess no one really wants the answers, because obviously nobody asked any questions, eh Snow White. Sounds like the former town attorney Greenan made a presentation, and I presume took questions as to the operation of Americorp, and interrelationship with the town. What better opportunity than that?

[Niagara]

Who knows, but you'd think one of the ID's he uses would be able to provide a credible link showing the TOS here is a Legal Document.

More "do as I say, not as I do" from Lazzarra...errrr....Manny.

Fisher, it must be hard for you trying to do put downs using your wit without using words like ass, retard, stupid.....
I know you are trying to be good. Has the Res PMed you about your language?

[rwrusso]

This one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever read.

Having grown up in WS, I can say I'm all too familiar with the shennanigans of town politics. How anyone can support people like ML, PC, etc., is beyond me.

Good luck turning WS around.

[snowwhite]

This one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever read.

Having grown up in WS, I can say I'm all too familiar with the shennanigans of town politics. How anyone can support people like ML, PC, etc., is beyond me.

Good luck turning WS around.

It's hard to believe that people are willing to support someone who is not good for our town. If any one of us did what ML and PC have done in the past, we would be booted out of WS. But there are people who will fight to the death to defend these characters and will not accept the true facts regarding them. It boggles the mind!:eek:

[Niagara]

This one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever read.
Good luck turning WS around.

Hi rwrusso. Welcome to WSForum. You are not aka Lucky Larry are you?

I agree that there are some here in town who can not take rejection well, eh Snow. They get fired from their jobs and go on unemployment. Happening all over the country.

As far as turning WS around, I have only heard that the town workers have low morale. Probably because of the supervisor. Beyond that, I think WS is a pleasant place to live.

I would like to see some bike paths, and a return of funding for the Birchfield. Strange the absence of comment over the dismantling of the Burchfield. Thank you WP.
SW, OTR, GOC, MERL are all more interested in revenge and paycheck than the Burchfield and historical preservation.

I have heard that WP has said he would only be a one term Supervisor. He is probably right there, even if he didn't say it. I also think that from the comments I have heard, I predict the referendum will not pass. Insanity will not prevail.

[snowwhite]

If I comment on the Burchfield, you will find something negative to say about that too. But here goes, the reason the Burchfield is going down the drain is because the good people who worked there are gone. If you remember, or don't, you had a great artist in Paulette, you had a great director in Andy and there were opeing for artists and reasons for the public to attend different activities there, but alas, there is no reason to go there anymore. What happened to the fall art and craft show on the grounds? What happened to the fall festival which I attended when they had the wonderful hot soup outside? All these things were great, but when you take away the staff who ran them, what do you expect? That's my reasons why it is no more.
P.S. And I could add that ML drove the staff away but you don't want to hear that!

[Niagara]

If I comment on the Burchfield, you will find something negative to say about that too. But here goes, the reason the Burchfield is going down the drain is because the good people who worked there are gone. If you remember, or don't, you had a great artist in Paulette, you had a great director in Andy and there were opeing for artists and reasons for the public to attend different activities there, but alas, there is no reason to go there anymore. What happened to the fall art and craft show on the grounds? What happened to the fall festival which I attended when they had the wonderful hot soup outside? All these things were great, but when you take away the staff who ran them, what do you expect? That's my reasons why it is no more.


What happened is the funding was CUT. There are no anamosities in the building. The current director is loved by all. The curator is incredible and renouned in WNY. I recommend you donate your money. How about a membership? How about restoring funding?
You wouldn't be an educator, BTW?
Perhaps it was not a job you lost Snow, it was a job you didn't get.

[WNYresident]

Is that what all this was for, YOU??????? :confused:

Ain't that trip. See what is wrong with these people? It's about them.. It's always about them. Ain't that funny. He has nothing to do with it.

I just shut it off so everyone could take a breather...

THERE were a LOT of people wondering what is going on. ALL it was, was a "."

MANUAL... can you just answer ONE question..


was more money transfered from the general fund then what the federal government had as a grant?..... Yes or no and how much.. Don't give me some BS to go look it up myself.. Do you know? yes or no...

[Niagara]

Ain't that trip. See what is wrong with these people? It's about them.. It's always about them. Ain't that funny. He has nothing to do with it.

I just shut it off so everyone could take a breather...

THERE were a LOT of people wondering what is going on. ALL it was, was a "."

MANUAL... can you just answer ONE question..


was more money transfered from the general fund then what the federal government had as a grant?..... Yes or no and how much.. Don't give me some BS to go look it up myself.. Do you know? yes or no...
The truth is I emailed Bielicki using the email address posted at the town web site. I also wrote SM an email, and neither have been answered. I live in WS, and I wrote my representitive and a town employee, and I got NO answer. I do not know. I do not know how you would find out. Forget FOIL. You will not find it there either. I do not think that Bielicki knows what he is doing. I wonder whether WP knows. I have suggested that if there is a discrepency that work begin to solve the problem.
I suggested a while back that you make the inquiry figuring that your requrest would hold more weight than mine or other people's, but you said you were too busy.

As far as the TOS 'update'. Maybe I am wrong, or maybe DT is covering something for you.

[Niagara]

Ok...

I'm in rare form..

You are an ass. Has anyone ever told you that to your face? You really are..would you please come to the Xmas party?. I would LOVE to meet you and mark L. Really.. bring him along..


Love to introduce you. I think you would like him, I think you have been fed a whole lot of poo about him. As far as what I do and who I am, it is well known.
As far as the Christmas party, would not want to spoil your day.
DT is one of your moderators. You mean he did not inform you of changes to TOS?

[snowwhite]

What happened is the funding was CUT. There are no anamosities in the building. The current director is loved by all. The curator is incredible and renouned in WNY. I recommend you donate your money. How about a membership? How about restoring funding?
You wouldn't be an educator, BTW?
Perhaps it was not a job you lost Snow, it was a job you didn't get.

Wrong, the funding wasn't cut. And forget about me not getting a job. I have been retired for some time and I don't need the money or the employment. Your guesses really are off the wall. Good thing you're not a fortune teller!

BTW, I already have a membership to the Burchfield and if there were some dedicated staff working, I would donate to the cause. :)

[Niagara]

CHICKEN....won't even come to a party....

Is that all you can say. How about giving a call to the town reps and find out where the money is and what actions are being taken to make the town whole.
Oh, I know. Too busy. Easier to villify mark l.

[WNYresident]

Is that all you can say. How about giving a call to the town reps and find out where the money is.
Oh, I know. Too busy. Easier to villify mark l.

Cause I don't have time to bother with it. Can't ONE person who actually lives in WS that post here just do it? I live in cheektowaga... someone in WS should just confirm...

[WNYresident]

What happened is the funding was CUT. There are no anamosities in the building. The current director is loved by all. The curator is incredible and renouned in WNY. I recommend you donate your money. How about a membership? How about restoring funding?
You wouldn't be an educator, BTW?
Perhaps it was not a job you lost Snow, it was a job you didn't get.

Why do it in the first place? WHY was tax payer money used to start it off? SPECIALLY if the funding could be cut at any time.

Seems like a waste of money.. Why not combine stuff versus making a new this or that like the birchfield?

[snowwhite]

I think Res should have the opportunity to say what he wants. I would hate to see him stop voicing his opinion. Res, don't let Manuel make you leave with his self righteous thoughts. He's the only one that thinks its all about him! I know it gets tiring to have to defend every word you write but maybe he'll go away because he is so critical with everthing about this web site. It surprises me that he spends so much time here when he is unhappy.

[Niagara]

Wrong, the funding wasn't cut. And forget about me not getting a job. I have been retired for some time and I don't need the money or the employment. I already have a membership to the Burchfield

Thanks for the info. I think you are wrong about the funding.

[snowwhite]

Why do it in the first place? WHY was tax payer money used to start it off? SPECIALLY if the funding could be cut at any time.

Seems like a waste of money.. Why not combine stuff versus making a new this or that like the birchfield?

It was started by ML but then PC thought it was a good election topic to use for his political gain. If you noticed over the years, PC always took credit for Americorp coming to WS and how he supported the program. As long as it made him look good, he invested our tax dollars in the program. Over the years, it got out of hand and now we are left with over 3 million dollars in debt because of PC and ML's over spending of the grant money.

[Niagara]

Cause I don't have time to bother with it. Can't ONE person who actually lives in WS that post here just do it? I live in cheektowaga... someone in WS should just confirm...

Fair enough. I know that they have not responded to my requests. Maybe someone could call saying they represent SUWNY, or Buffalo News, or WS Bee. I just think that if people do not know, they should not state as fact such and such has acted improperly. You should comprehend that. I think DT did.

[WNYresident]

Fair enough. I know that they have not responded to my requests. Maybe someone could call saying they represent SUWNY, or Buffalo News, or WS Bee. I just think that if people do not know, they should not state as fact such and such has acted improperly. You should comprehend that. I think DT did.

Why can't they call as "themselves" resident of WS. What's the difference if it's speakup or news or the bee.

[Niagara]

Why do it in the first place?

It has been stated, without justification, that the Burchfield was created as a campaign/election tool by PC. I would like to think that it was done to elevate WS into something more than a Cheektowaga.

[Niagara]

Why can't they call as "themselves" resident of WS. What's the difference if it's speakup or news or the bee.

Because these representatives do not respond to questions, or they do not know the answers themselves.
Remember at another point I asked what happened at a board meeting. Greenan, the former attorney was there giving a presentation. Nobody apparently asked questions.

[WNYresident]

Because these representatives do not respond to questions, or they do not know the answers themselves.


You know the "representatives" are reading speakup. Mark L emailed me about items on speakup. SOOOO you know the guy is reading what is posted here. It would save loads of time if he would just register and tell everyone if ws general fund money was used to cover the cost of a federal program. He would have to know wouldn't he?

He could easily make a statement to offset what others posted on here.

[WNYresident]

It has been stated, without justification, that the Burchfield was created as a campaign/election tool by PC. I would like to think that it was done to elevate WS into something more than a Cheektowaga.

What on earth are you talking about? Haven't you been in cheektowaga? They screwed it up. Stripmalls, empty box buildings and traffic.. You really want that?

[Niagara]

You know the "representatives" are reading speakup. Mark L emailed me about items on speakup. SOOOO you know the guy is reading what is posted here. It would save loads of time if he would just register and tell everyone if ws general fund money was used to cover the cost of a federal program. He would have to know wouldn't he?

He could easily make a statement to offset what others posted on here.

You banned him. He was registered. He played with/inflated one of the silly polls, and you banned him for life. SOOO you are not going to get him to comment. Mean time you let alot of trash get by.
I am talking about the town representitives anyway. It is Bielicki who should have to justify his over draw claim and what is being done about it. Mean time there are a few here which keep on milking and milking this story.
Remember, I emailed him.


Dear Mr. Bielecki,

Your name has been referenced as stating that Americorp is in the rears by 3.1 million dollars to the Town of West Seneca.
http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24583&page=2 #24
Your comments have fueled a fire of miscontent, and I think the record should be set stright for the benefit of all parties, including the taxpayers.
1. Is there grant money in the pipeline to provide reimbursement to West Seneca.
2. When will the Town of West Seneca be reimbursed the money.
3. Who is responsible to provide oversight to the program through the end of 2010.
4. Is there budgeting procedures in place to guide Americorp through their breakaway from the Town of West Seneca to see the town is made whole.
5. If there is an inticipated shortfall, is there efforts underway to see the shortfall to the Town of West Seneca is covered by the Federal Government.
I look forward to your reply.

As yet no reply.

[Niagara]

What on earth are you talking about? Haven't you been in cheektowaga? They screwed it up. Stripmalls, empty box buildings and traffic.. You really want that?

Exactly, it was an attempt to elevate the town from the screwup, aka Cheektowaga.
Preserve history,
Promote art and culture.

[Niagara]

In case anyone would like to contact the town comptroller.............. rbielecki@swccpas.com

[WNYresident]

Is that all you can say. How about giving a call to the town reps and find out where the money is and what actions are being taken to make the town whole.
Oh, I know. Too busy. Easier to villify mark l.

I'm not villifying anyone. It's other people in west seneca who are bringing up the topic and I'm asking questions. I would have never known that a town board could give a "federal program" more money that it has received in grants. I don't think I would allow that without a guarantee in writing the money was on the way. It's not responsible towards the town residents to do it any other way. I do'nt really care if there's a good ol boy network or not.

Manuel do you live in WS? If so why don't you call and say you are looking for some information to post on speakup. If it's something that needs to be foiled I will ask DTWarren if he could help with the foil part. He knows how that works.

[WNYresident]

Manual
You banned him. He was registered. He played with/inflated one of the silly polls, and you banned him for life. SOOO you are not going to get him to comment. Mean time you let alot of trash get by.
I am talking about the town representitives anyway. It is Bielicki who should have to justify his over draw claim and what is being done about it. Mean time there are a few here which keep on milking and milking this story.
Remember, I emailed him.

You know that for a fact? I'll un-ban him even he was trying to mislead people by inflating one of the polls. Apparently it wasn't all that "silly" for someone to tamper with voting. Do you know what his screen name was?

[MERL J]

You banned him. He was registered. He played with/inflated one of the silly polls, and you banned him for life.

Says a lot about his credibility and forthrightness, eh?

[GhostofCharles]

What happened is the funding was CUT. There are no anamosities in the building. The current director is loved by all. The curator is incredible and renouned in WNY. I recommend you donate your money. How about a membership? How about restoring funding?
You wouldn't be an educator, BTW?
Perhaps it was not a job you lost Snow, it was a job you didn't get.

The funding was cut, but only after it had been extended for an additional year. From its inception, the Burchfield Board of Directors was given 6 years of financial assistance from the town, then was to become self sufficient. The Board of Directors never bothered to do it, so when the new administration came in, on a campaign of reducing spending, Burchfield expenditures was one of the first to be cut. Blame the Burchfield Board of Directors, not the Town on that one.

And by the way, what is happening at Burchfield these days? According to the website, TheBNAC.org, we can look forward to a Catherine Parker exhibit starting in May.

[WNYresident]

http://www.thebnac.org/gallery.html

Who created this?

This is the place we are all talking about? What does the americorps have to do with this?

[MERL J]

http://www.thebnac.org/gallery.html

Who created this?

This is the place we are all talking about? What does the americorps have to do with this?

That's the place. It is housed in the same structure as AmeriCorps. ML "absorbed" the function of the BNAC into his jurisdiction by some sort of coup with PC. It is under his "oversight" and he has chopped some heads there, as well. In face, one head he chopped had gone to an open exhibit by an artist she had brought in before the chopping block and he physically blocked her from entering - an pen to the public event - at a taxpayer paid facility.

[GhostofCharles]

That's the place. It is housed in the same structure as AmeriCorps. ML "absorbed" the function of the BNAC into his jurisdiction by some sort of coup with PC. It is under his "oversight" and he has chopped some heads there, as well. In face, one head he chopped had gone to an open exhibit by an artist she had brought in before the chopping block and he physically blocked her from entering - an pen to the public event - at a taxpayer paid facility.

That is the type of the iceberg merl. Reports of harassment, slander and even vandalism have come out of that place from former BNAC employees.

And something really interesting, through the Town of West Seneca, the Burchfield had its own budget for expenses to which ML had sole access to. In 2007 he overspent that budget by $12,000. Manuel is looking for a reason the Town Council cut it off, I'd say thats a big one.

I am wondering Res if you'd like to see some pics of the shape Americorps have left that building in, done by their own admission, to force a BNAC employee to quit. Let me know....

[rwrusso]

Hi rwrusso. Welcome to WSForum. You are not aka Lucky Larry are you?

As far as turning WS around, I have only heard that the town workers have low morale. Probably because of the supervisor. Beyond that, I think WS is a pleasant place to live.

I would like to see some bike paths, and a return of funding for the Birchfield. Strange the absence of comment over the dismantling of the Burchfield. Thank you WP.
SW, OTR, GOC, MERL are all more interested in revenge and paycheck than the Burchfield and historical preservation.

No, I am not Lucky Larry.

It'd be nice to drive through WS and not come across eye sore after eye sore. But for the 18 years I grew up in WS, and the 12 since, nothing has seemed to really change.

[rwrusso]

You banned him. He was registered. He played with/inflated one of the silly polls, and you banned him for life.

Really? So Mark L. joined in on the childish behavior? Maybe he should be working on spending less instead of skewing message board polls.

This site is my newest form of entertainment. I can't believe that these are grown adults bickering back and forth like this. Again, it's so unintentionally hilarious.

Mark L may be a nice guy. Maybe many of us would like him. I've never met the man. But regardless, what he did was wrong, and he should own up to it and fix it.

[Cgoodsp466]

Really? So Mark L. joined in on the childish behavior? Maybe he should be working on spending less instead of skewing message board polls.

This site is my newest form of entertainment. I can't believe that these are grown adults bickering back and forth like this. Again, it's so unintentionally hilarious.

Mark L may be a nice guy. Maybe many of us would like him. I've never met the man. But regardless, what he did was wrong, and he should own up to it and fix it.

Welcome aboard RW you soon will discover the ones that cant get over themselves.In case you have not figured it out yet medical miracles are being created here.

[MERL J]

Really? So Mark L. joined in on the childish behavior? Maybe he should be working on spending less instead of skewing message board polls.

This site is my newest form of entertainment. I can't believe that these are grown adults bickering back and forth like this. Again, it's so unintentionally hilarious.

Mark L may be a nice guy. Maybe many of us would like him. I've never met the man. But regardless, what he did was wrong, and he should own up to it and fix it.

Fagedahboudit - this ^^^ is one of the newest ML incarnations, kids.

[MERL J]

No, I am not Lucky Larry.

It'd be nice to drive through WS and not come across eye sore after eye sore. But for the 18 years I grew up in WS, and the 12 since, nothing has seemed to really change.

Um, I didn't know you were so young, ML.

[dtwarren]

Point of information:

From the minutes of the October 20, 2008 TB meeting: ( http://www.westseneca.net/bdmin08/mi081020.html )



13. Youth Director re Zeroing out AmeriCorps Program negative balance

Motion by Councilwoman Bove, seconded by Councilman Graber, to authorize the Comptroller to reverse the charges on the attached list from the AmeriCorps program accounts.

On the question, Councilwoman Bove stated that she and Comptroller Robert Bielecki and the town’s independent auditor, Wayne Drescher, worked with a number of AmeriCorps not-for-profit people and tried to reconcile the correct accounting for the non-federal program expenses for the years 2004 thru 2007 because this had not been done. Some town employees’ salaries that were supposed to be coded 50 percent town and 50 percent AmeriCorps had been billed 100 percent AmeriCorps. Most of this was salaries, including salaries to the Burchfield Nature and Art Center. The town will be taking approximately $300,000 from the AmierCorps Trust Account to pay the AmeriCorps expenses. The town will then also pay the town’s share of expenses which is $283,796.15. Councilwoman Bove stated that the accountability was all around and in 2008 there will be monthly reports showing paperwork that is submitted for reimbursement of claims so that reconciling at the end of 2008 will be accomplished.

Councilwoman Meegan questioned AmeriCorp’s current balance outstanding at this time and when the balance would be totally zeroed out.

Mr. Bielecki responded that the current balance as of the last payment was $3.1 million and that was projected to go to zero by 2010.

Councilwoman Meegan referred to Youth Director Mark Lazzara’s statement that if there is any deficiency after final reconciliation, the staff of the AmeriCorps not-for-profit will work to raise sufficient funds to eliminate any negative balance in the AmeriCorps program account. She questioned if this was an absolute agreement.

Councilwoman Bove confirmed that this was an absolute agreement.


Ayes: All Noes: None Motion Carried

[OldTymeRevival]

13. Youth Director re Zeroing out AmeriCorps Program negative balance

Motion by Councilwoman Bove, seconded by Councilman Graber, to authorize the Comptroller to reverse the charges on the attached list from the AmeriCorps program accounts.

On the question, Councilwoman Bove stated that she and Comptroller Robert Bielecki and the town’s independent auditor, Wayne Drescher, worked with a number of AmeriCorps not-for-profit people and tried to reconcile the correct accounting for the non-federal program expenses for the years 2004 thru 2007 because this had not been done. Some town employees’ salaries that were supposed to be coded 50 percent town and 50 percent AmeriCorps had been billed 100 percent AmeriCorps. Most of this was salaries, including salaries to the Burchfield Nature and Art Center. The town will be taking approximately $300,000 from the AmierCorps Trust Account to pay the AmeriCorps expenses. The town will then also pay the town’s share of expenses which is $283,796.15. Councilwoman Bove stated that the accountability was all around and in 2008 there will be monthly reports showing paperwork that is submitted for reimbursement of claims so that reconciling at the end of 2008 will be accomplished.

Councilwoman Meegan questioned AmeriCorp’s current balance outstanding at this time and when the balance would be totally zeroed out.

Mr. Bielecki responded that the current balance as of the last payment was $3.1 million and that was projected to go to zero by 2010.

Councilwoman Meegan referred to Youth Director Mark Lazzara’s statement that if there is any deficiency after final reconciliation, the staff of the AmeriCorps not-for-profit will work to raise sufficient funds to eliminate any negative balance in the AmeriCorps program account. She questioned if this was an absolute agreement.

Councilwoman Bove confirmed that this was an absolute agreement.


Ayes: All Noes: None Motion

+++++

It may indeed be an agreement "to work" to raise sufficient funds to eliminate a negative balance, but it is NOT A GUARANTEE that they will be able to raise those funds, nor does this "agreement" obligate them "absolutely" to satisfy their debt to WS.

Has anyone seen the letter to the Town Board from Director Lazarra regarding this matter and which incorporates said agreement? Perhaps Ms Bove would share it with the public. Is is available for public review, or must it be foiled?

[dtwarren]

If its not an absolute guarantee then the Town's budget is out of balance and the Supervisor has to account for the deficit in this years budget which he has not done in the tentative budget for next year or in any action to date in this years budget. Mr. Greenan brought this out at the public hearing on the 2009 budget the Comptroller and Supervisor were of the opinion that it would be zero by the end of 2008.

[WNYresident]

You want it in writing with people held liable for the funds. None of this "hand shake crap" when it's elected officials.

[dtwarren]

A litle more information on this issue:

The TB authorized the agreement unanimously at the June 23, 2008 TB meeting ( http://www.westseneca.net/bdmin08/mi080623.html ):



23. Supervisor Piotrowski re Termination of AmeriCorps rental of Burchfield building

Motion by Councilman Graber, seconded by Supervisor Piotrowski, to terminate the rental by AmeriCorps of the Burchfield Building on December 31, 2008.

On the question, Councilman Graber stated that he made this motion only for the purpose of opening discussion on this item.

Supervisor Piotrowski stated that the AmeriCorps program currently paid $75,000 in rent to the town. There was space available at the Southgate Plaza for $20,000, other locations available for $16,000, and free space also available at the HSBC building on Seneca Street or Cazenovia Parkway for them to do their excellent and fine work in West Seneca, WNY, and the United States. Supervisor Piotrowski commented that he was elected by the residents to save taxpayer dollars and the difference between $75,000 and zero was quite significant. Mr. Lazzara was quite successful with the AmeriCorps program and would continue to be much more successful in the future, but he did not need the Town of West Seneca to financially prop up his organization. Mr. Lazzara could make much more in salary as a stand alone, not-for-profit organization and Supervisor Piotrowski was willing to help with the transition. The Town Comptroller and town auditor both looked into the financial circumstances of AmeriCorps and had prepared a memorandum with their findings.

Motion by Councilman Graber, seconded by Councilwoman Bove, to amend the motion and enter into a grant administration agreement dated June 23, 2008 between the Town of West Seneca and not-for-profit company WNY AmeriCorps Fund Inc., whereby the not-for-profit agrees to assume the town’s obligation under the grants and authorize Councilwoman Bove to execute the agreement on behalf of the town.

On the question, Supervisor Piotrowski questioned if Town Attorney Edwin Hunter had reviewed the agreement.

Mr. Hunter responded that he only heard about the agreement late this afternoon. He questioned who prepared the agreement and thought the recitals were lacking information. One of the recitals mentioned that the town had established partnerships with numerous other agencies, municipalities and not-for-profit organizations to meet the cash and in-kind requirements of the grants. These were stated to be in excess of $1,700,000 for each, both cash and in-kind. He questioned what the partnerships were and who they were with, noting that there was no mention in the contract. Mr. Hunter further stated that he was provided a copy of the agreement at this meeting and did not have the opportunity to review it in its entirety.

Councilwoman Bove questioned if Deputy Town Attorney Paul Notaro had an opportunity to review the grant administration agreement.

Mr. Notaro responded that Councilwoman Bove had contacted him this date and they went over a number of the items in the agreement. He supported the idea of the agreement, but thought there were some items that needed to be addressed before the document was signed. Mr. Notaro had some concern because they were not looking at the actual grant documents that had certain obligations for the town as far as providing space and other obligations because they were a party to the original grant. They needed to address these things because they could not just cancel a grant with the federal government or New York State. There were nine grants and two were ending this year. Mr. Notaro thought the basis of the agreement satisfied Supervisor Piotrowski’s desire to release the town of some of the burdens of the AmeriCorps program, but they could not ignore the burdens that the grant placed on the town that they could not avoid.

Councilwoman Bove questioned if the Town of West Seneca was contractually obligated to the federal and state government to at least the year 2011 by contract.

Mr. Notaro understood that the grants were through December 31, 2010 so the town would be obligated until then.

Mr. Hunter stated that they had not reviewed the grants, but there might be a means of contacting federal and state agencies to see if they would consent to the town being removed from responsibility on the grant and allow AmeriCorps to undertake full responsibility and fulfill the obligations. They would have to review the grants, but they also did not know anything about the other partnerships.

Councilwoman Bove questioned if Supervisor Piotrowski had read the grants.

Supervisor Piotrowski stated that he had not reviewed the grants. They were in the AmeriCorps building and he did not have access to them. The AmeriCorps was a private entity and they did not control the grant funds. Supervisor Piotrowski noted that the town had lent over $2 million to the AmeriCorps program and there was a delinquency in payments. The termination dates for each of the grants was between August 2008 and December 2010. Councilman Graber questioned Supervisor Piotrowski’s statement that the town lent over $2 million to the AmeriCorps program.

Comptroller Robert Bielecki responded that the town advanced payment through the payment of bills in excess of the amount received on the grants, close to $2,100,000 as of June 19, 2008.

Councilman Graber stated that Erie County advances $60 million a year for grant money they will receive from the state and federal government. This is totally put on the shoulders of the taxpayers because they know that during the reconciliation period all monies will be paid in full. Councilman Graber commented that advancing money was a way of doing business.

Mr. Bielecki stated that as of December 31, 2006 the advance was over $1 million, as of December 31, 2007 the advance was over $1,600,000 and on June 20, 2008 the advance had grown to $2,095,000. This was money the town was losing interest on and money that was growing exponentially. Mr. Bielecki thought that this situation should be brought under control.

Councilman Graber questioned at what interest rate the town could invest that money that would be a safe investment.

Mr. Bielecki responded that the money could be invested at 4 percent.

Councilman Graber stated that when the Town Board voted 15 years ago to commence the AmeriCorps program, no one ever imagined that it would become what it is today. In 2007, 461 AmeriCorps members provided 3420 hours of service, 17,312 volunteers were recruited and provided 234,496 hours of service, 66 non-profit partnerships, and 263 sites received AmeriCorps service. The Town of West Seneca’s share was $340,000 in 2007 and the total financial impact for 2007 was $23,450,000. Councilman Graber commented that the City of Buffalo, Town of Cheektowaga, and many other others would love to have AmeriCorps located in their municipality. The proposed agreement puts the burden of raising $3.5 million on the shoulders of WNY AmeriCorps, none of it is the responsibility of West Seneca taxpayers. They will be paying the town $75,000 towards facility costs to remain at the Burchfield Nature & Art Center. There will be 20 non-Civil Service full-time employees transferred from the town to the not-for-profit. The not-for-profit will be responsible for all vehicles and insurance, including providing a car for Executive Director Mark Lazzara. He was taking on the responsibility and did not want the town to pay for his vehicle any longer, the grant money would pay for it. The not-for-profit will provide the town with $1 million worth of insurance and the town’s only obligation was a pass through, advancing money during the reconciliation period. The taxpayers of West Seneca will pay nothing and in return WNY will receive over $20 million.

Councilwoman Meegan stated that Mr. Lazzara was giving up his car because the board members had discussed this issue with him. She had spoken to him months ago about the insurance on all the vehicles that the town was paying $14,000 to $18,000 annually, the building insurance, and taking care of their payroll and mailings.

Councilman Graber agreed with Councilwoman Meegan and stated that this was what the agreement was all about. The new Town Board began analyzing AmeriCorps and the Youth Bureau and they found that there was no clear separation. Many things were addressed in the agreement that Supervisor Piotrowski and Councilwoman Meegan were adamant about.

Councilwoman Bove thought the agreement was fair to the town and fair to AmeriCorps. She commented that there were many more issues in the town that they had to face and they would face them together as a community.

Supervisor Piotrowski referred to Paragraph #10 and questioned if the town was required to pay the amounts listed on the schedule each month to the AmeriCorps program or if it would be a line of credit.

Councilman Graber stated that it was the same as they had been doing in the past, the town pays the bills and is eventually reimbursed by the grant. The town advances the money and receives payment in the end. In all likelihood, the amount of money paid by the town on a monthly basis will begin to decrease up until December 2010. Any new grants will be entirely in the hands of WNY AmeriCorps. The agreement will take them to the end when there will be a total separation.

Mr. Bielecki stated that since January 1, 2008 when AmeriCorps owed the town $1.6 million, the town only collected $361,000. He looked at this as a line of credit, and most funding sources with a line of credit would like to see it go to zero at least once a year. This line of credit had grown exponentially from 2006 through this date, and it could go to $3 million by the end of the year.

Councilwoman Bove suggested that the Comptroller’s Office work with the AmeriCorps to get the money back in. If the claims have already been done, it was up to the Comptroller’s Office and AmeriCorps to get this accomplished.

Supervisor Piotrowski questioned when the vehicles would be transferred to AmeriCorps.

Councilman Graber responded that the vehicles would be transferred to AmeriCorps by August 1, 2008.

Supervisor Piotrowski questioned if the liability policy should be greater than $1 million to protect the town.

Mr. Hunter presumed that $1 million was a little light and there should probably be at least an umbrella to cover excess up to possibly $5 million.

Mr. Notaro agreed that the insurance should be high and thought that this amount could be worked out between he and Mr. Hunter before the document is signed.

Mr. Hunter noted that the town was making a representation at the end of the agreement that it had authority to enter into the agreement, but if the town executes the agreement at this time it may be in violation of its grant obligations. They could determine this by reviewing the grants, but the agreement should not be signed prior to reviewing them.


Ayes: All Noes: None Motion Carried


From the July 28, 2008 TB meeting ( http://www.westseneca.net/bdmin08/mi080728.html )



RESIDENT QUESTIONS ACTIONS ON YOUTH BUREAU/AMERICORPS ISSUE

Paula Minklei, Orchard Park Road, stated that last month’s Town Board meeting was chaotic and unclear and left her with many questions. Mrs. Minklei questioned why Council Members Bove, Clarke and Graber voted against combining the Youth Bureau with the Recreation Department. She commented that Supervisor Piotrowski spoke clearly on the question for the motion as a money saving move, but there was no discussion against it, just three noes. Mrs. Minklei questioned if the “no” votes had anything to do with how long the town was obligated to keep Mr. Lazzara as Youth Bureau Director under the merged requirements with AmeriCorps, and if so, when that requirement ended. She further noted that the town was expending $100,000 or more on the Youth Bureau Director if his benefits were factored in.

Councilman Graber stated that he didn’t agree with combining the Recreation Department and the Youth Bureau. They always had two separate department heads and he thought this was the most effective.

Councilwoman Bove stated that Mr. Lazzara was working with people in AmeriCorps as well as the Youth Bureau and the individuals at the Youth Bureau, such as the Peer Counselors, were constantly being aided by AmeriCorps people, so they had a good relationship. Because the salary Mr. Lazzara gets is really for both, there was no need to add an additional salary for someone else or give that work to someone not used to doing it. When something works well and the students work well with each other and it’s going along quite well, she did not see the need to break it. Councilwoman Bove thought there were some adults that had more empathy when working with youth and it promoted a fabulous atmosphere. She had talked to people within the Youth Bureau and found that aside from the financial part, there was a good working relationship and emotional tie and they were motivated to do even more on a daily basis. Because that works so well, it was a natural fit.

Mrs. Minklei questioned if Mr. Lazzara would continue as Youth Director as the town began to separate out from AmeriCorps.

Councilwoman Bove thought they would have to wait to see how this played out.

Councilman Graber commented that Mr. Lazzara had Civil Service protection as the Youth Director and traditionally when other towns merged the two, the Youth Director took control of the entire operation rather than the Recreation Director.

Mrs. Minklei questioned if the Recreation Director also had Civil Service protection.

Councilman Graber stated that the Recreation Director also had Civil Service protection, and in the past whenever the town tried to eliminate a job that had Civil Service protection the individual holding that position took the town to court and won. Councilman Graber further commented that the town received $27,000 from New York State each year to partially pay Mr. Lazzara’s salary.

Mrs. Minklei questioned the status of the Town of West Seneca/AmeriCorps agreement, if it had been reviewed and signed, was a copy available for public review, and why Councilwoman Bove was appointed to administer the agreement instead of the Town Attorney or Comptroller. She thought an appropriate department should oversee the legalities and keep board members up-to-date as each grant obligation changes.

Councilwoman Bove stated that Deputy Town Attorney Paul Notaro was working on the agreement with AmeriCorps and she did not know the status of it.

Town Attorney Edwin Hunter stated that Mr. Notaro had been collaborating with him on the agreement since shortly after the June 23rd meeting when the agreement was presented to the Town Board. The grant administration agreement was really not an agreement, it was a number of statements and it did not quite fit the term “agreement”. It was not complete and there were a number of open issues. On June 25th, Mr. Notaro had asked Mr. Lazzara for copies of the nine grants referenced in the attachment to the grant administration agreement and Mr. Hunter wrote to Mr. Lazzara on July 15th because they still had not received the copies. In his correspondence to Mr. Lazzara he stated that he understood the copies of the grants were going to be delivered to the Town Attorney’s office on July 15th and he thanked him for providing the information since neither the Town Attorney’s office nor the Comptroller’s office had copies of the grants. Mr. Hunter further stated in his correspondence to Mr. Lazzara that in the background recitals to the agreement, Mr. Lazzara indicated cash match requirements by the town from August 1, 2008 through completion of $1,705,770 and in-kind match requirements of $1,767,553. He asked Mr. Lazzara to provide a breakdown calculation of these amounts because he did not find them apparent from the agreement or the attachments thereto. Mr. Lazzara referenced the figures in the agreement, but there was no clear explanation. In looking at the documents and figures attached, it did not come up

to the figures he quoted. The grant administration agreement indicated that the town had established partnerships with numerous other agencies, municipalities and not-for-profit organizations, what Mr. Lazzara calls grant partners, to meet the cash and in-kind requirements of the grants. The Town Attorney’s office was unable to locate any such partnerships or partnership agreements and Mr. Hunter asked Mr. Lazzara to forward copies of these, or if there were no written agreements regarding the partnerships to please explain their operation and who entered into the partnerships on behalf of the town. Mr. Hunter stated that as of this date he had not heard anything further and neither had Mr. Notaro. They had received the nine grants and Mr. Notaro was going through them, but there was a lot of information.

Mrs. Minklei questioned if the agreement would be available for public viewing when it was completed and signed.

Supervisor Piotrowski advised that the agreement was a public record and would be available for the public to review it.

Councilman Graber stated that it took a member of the Town Board to officially sign any action. Typically it was the Supervisor, but in this case they chose Councilwoman Bove. The Town Attorney always signs with the board member, but the Town Board was the sole responsible party to sign the official document.

Councilwoman Bove also noted that she was one of the liaisons to AmeriCorps and the Youth Bureau.

Mr. Hunter stated that Councilwoman Bove had been very close to the issue for a long time and was the logical person to sign the agreement.

Mrs. Minklei questioned what contributed to the overtime expense for Peer Counselors and the YES program.

Councilman Graber responded that the YES program was the reason for the overtime. The YES program employee left about 1½ years ago and the Peer Counselors took over that work. Councilman Graber noted that since the Peer Counselors became involved the success of the YES program increased dramatically, but they were working on ways to reduce the overtime expenditure.

Mrs. Minklei questioned how the Town Board determined the success of the YES program when the Peer Counselors wrote their own evaluations. She commented that usually when someone does a job, someone else evaluates it.

Councilman Graber stated that they could talk to the kids and the people they service on whether the YES program was a success.

Mrs. Minklei questioned who paid for litigation proceedings involving AmeriCorps and its former employees.

Supervisor Piotrowski advised that in the past the town has paid for litigation expenses involving former AmeriCorps employees.

Councilwoman Bove stated that this would be changing as the separation takes place. They looked at this when preparing the agreement and agreed that AmeriCorps should be responsible for the billing.

Mrs. Minklei further questioned the plan for 20 School Street after it was rehabilitated and who the owner would be.

Councilwoman Bove advised that AmeriCorps will own 20 School Street when the property is rehabilitated.

Councilman Graber stated that it was the town’s intent to completely deed 20 School Street and 16 School Street over to WNY AmeriCorps. They probably would not include the Metz house at 12 School Street.

[dtwarren]

And some more:


Then at the August 25, 2008 TB meeting ( http://www.westseneca.net/bdmin08/mi080825.html ):



TERMINATION OF AMERICORPS EMPLOYEES AS TOWN EMPLOYEES

Motion by Councilman Graber, seconded by Councilman Clarke, to terminate the following AmeriCorps employees as employees of the Town of West Seneca effective August 9, 2008: William Boldt, Christine Dalka, Joseph Demma, Adam Ellsworth, Michele Graber, Kevin Hayes, Robin Heiss, Bryan Lawrence, Shannon Lazzara, Melissa McGreevy, Patrick Metzger, Beth Miller, Lissa Piper, Carol Quinnan, Joshua Randle, Richard Rechtien, Aurtha Reinard, Kate Sarata, Catherine Seweryniak, Carrie Smith, Michele Tori, and Deirdra Wright; and further, the Town of West Seneca will no longer be responsible for processing payroll for 201 AmeriCorps members.


Ayes: All Noes: None Motion Carried

[rwrusso]

Fagedahboudit - this ^^^ is one of the newest ML incarnations, kids.

The assumptions some of you make are great. I am in opposition to ML. I thought that was clear.

[keyboard150]

Americorps screwed me and several of my friends over hardcore one year. I worked all summer for them, and then they refused to hand me my scholarship grant because a supervisor messed up the time sheets.

I've had no love for that organization since.

[Niagara]

You want it in writing with people held liable for the funds. None of this "hand shake crap" when it's elected officials.

I agree, none of this "hand shake crap" will do. I think the point here is the number is NOT 3.1 millioin dollars, and that effort will be made to make sure there that Americorp is money neutral to the town. There is still two more years and beyond to get the numbers stright. Your new President Obama likes Americorp, and it will be expanded. It is called income redistribution, like it or not.

[Niagara]

Americorps screwed me and several of my friends over hardcore one year. I worked all summer for them, and then they refused to hand me my scholarship grant because a supervisor messed up the time sheets.

I've had no love for that organization since.

The organization is bad because someone within the organization screwed up? Sounds like it didn't hurt you much, presently working as a music teacher in the Buffalo Schools. And scholarship GRANT?

[Niagara]

You know that for a fact? I'll un-ban him even he was trying to mislead people by inflating one of the polls. Apparently it wasn't all that "silly" for someone to tamper with voting. Do you know what his screen name was?

You know, this banning for LIFE because someone figured out how to fudge the numbers of a fun poll. This crap about MISLEAD. Point is you ban people you don't like for life, and then let crap pass and pass and pass from people you do like.

[Niagara]

The assumptions some of you make are great. I am in opposition to ML. I thought that was clear.

Sure, jump on the band wagon. Plenty of room.

[Niagara]

The funding was cut, but only after it had been extended for an additional year. From its inception, the Burchfield Board of Directors was given 6 years of financial assistance from the town, then was to become self sufficient. The Board of Directors never bothered to do it, so when the new administration came in, on a campaign of reducing spending, Burchfield expenditures was one of the first to be cut. Blame the Burchfield Board of Directors, not the Town on that one.


The Burchfield Board of Directors are non paid volunteers.
The Burchfield Penny existance was subsidized by space given to it on the second floor of the Buffalo State College building for how many years?
The average government town/county/state spends one to five percent on cultural. This town probably spends less than that.
Reasonably, the agreement was probably crafted with periodic reevaluation/renewal in mind.
It is obvious that WP and SM have no appreciation of any value in promoting the town's history and culture through a park. The sad thing is we were not talking about alot of money. The sad thing is there is no vision within this present town administration.

[keyboard150]

The organization is bad because someone within the organization screwed up? Sounds like it didn't hurt you much, presently working as a music teacher in the Buffalo Schools. And scholarship GRANT?

Is that your attempt at an argument? When I join something and am promised compensation, I expect the compensation. If I joined it for free, that would be different. The worst of it was that they acted like it was my fault they screwed up---they didn't even make an ATTEMPT to fix the problem. That was crap.
I would have forgiven it, however, they turned and did the same thing to several of my friends as well. Where did the money go if it wasn't being used for what it was meant for?

It didn't hurt me much? You have no idea what not having the grant did to me.
Um, if I had that grant I wouldn't be in debt as much as I am now. Yes, the organization is bad. Why? Because it has no organization.

That wasn't the first time they screwed us over. Americorps should be replaced with something else.

Or at least given a complete shakedown. Sorry, but this is what happens when an organization has no organization.

Truth hurts. What are you trying to prove by trying to justify something that is wrong?

[Niagara]

Why do it in the first place? WHY was tax payer money used to start it off? SPECIALLY if the funding could be cut at any time.

Seems like a waste of money.. Why not combine stuff versus making a new this or that like the birchfield?

The same could be said for any number of things. Why have a hockey rink? Why have a soccer park?
The point is the town is made up of many people, many with different values likes/dislikes. I own two peoperties in WS, and I have never played soccer or used the ice rink once, but I have used the park many times. Shouldn't I get something from my tax dollar?
And frankly, to you, everything is a waste of tax dollars. The problem is, yours is not the real world.

[keyboard150]

You know, this banning for LIFE because someone figured out how to fudge the numbers of a fun poll. This crap about MISLEAD. Point is you ban people you don't like for life, and then let crap pass and pass and pass from people you do like.

How he runs his board is none of YOUR business. You are here at his leisure. If you don't like it, don't be here.
He can ban whoever he wishes, and not ban whoever he wishes. It's his choice. He can be equal, discriminatory, nice, nasty. He can do whatever he wants, and theres not a thing you can do about it.

Start your own board if you don't like it.

[Niagara]

It didn't hurt me much? You have no idea what not having the grant did to me.
Um, if I had that grant I wouldn't be in debt as much as I am now.

It is hard to follow your arguement. You work and get paid. I presume you get paid hourly, and get a weekly check. There are stubs. If you do not get your check, you say something. I presume so many hours work qualifies for some bonus/grant. What is the problem. Did you not keep your records stright? Did you work for free? I don't particularly believe in grant money for education.

[Niagara]

How he runs his board is none of YOUR business. You are here at his leisure. If you don't like it, don't be here.
He can ban whoever he wishes, and not ban whoever he wishes. It's his choice. He can be equal, discriminatory, nice, nasty. He can do whatever he wants, and theres not a thing you can do about it.


You are right. He can be as unequal as he wishes. He can even ignore his own rules if he wants.
It is this attitude that created the McKinley HS situation.
Crystal Barton sieg heil.
Example of what is wrong with public education.

[keyboard150]

It is hard to follow your arguement. You work and get paid. I presume you get paid hourly, and get a weekly check. There are stubs. If you do not get your check, you say something. I presume so many hours work qualifies for some bonus/grant. What is the problem. Did you not keep your records stright? Did you work for free? I don't particularly believe in grant money for education.

Well, I don't care what you believe. There are grants for education, and it is MY belief that they are good and necessary. Some people don't have tons of money to afford education on their own, so they rely on grants and loans. There is nothing wrong with that.

Apparently you are having trouble reading, not following my argument. My argument is simple:

1. Americorps is disorganized. It should either be disbanded or reorganized with all new staff.
2. I joined Americorps for a summer program. At the end of the summer, I was to be awarded a $2000 dollar grant to help pay for school, which would have been very helpful to my family and myself. Americorps refused to pay me and several people i worked with because THEY did not keep their proper records.
However, it took them 6 months to tell me this. They asked me to submit time sheets THREE times during that 6 months, and promised me each time that once they got them they would send the money.
After 6 months they said: "Sorry, no money for you."

Is that clearer? Or do I need to draw pictures?

By the way, no I do not get paid hourly. I do not get paid weekly. Yes, I do keep track of my SALARY and days worked. This has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about, so why you bring it up is beyond me.

[keyboard150]

You are right. He can be as unequal as he wishes. He can even ignore his own rules if he wants.
It is this attitude that created the McKinley HS situation.
Crystal Barton sieg heil.
Example of what is wrong with public education.


What the hell are you talking about?!!

There is absolutely NO connection between this board and McKinley high school!
And just from your comments, it's quite obvious you have NO idea what happened at McKinley either!

Are you sniffing glue while posting---because damn dude! If you're going to make a comparison---try to have SOME connection!

"THE BUFFALO BILLS KEEP LOSING BECAUSE OF POOR COACHING. IT IS THIS BAD COACHING THAT CREATED THE GLOBAL WARMING DISASTER THAT WILL KILL US ALL!"

Please. Don't sniff and post.

[Niagara]

1. Americorps is disorganized. It should either be disbanded or reorganized with all new staff.

Well, it may be disorganized, but it is not going away. I am pretty sure that you are not going to just make people disappear and appear.


2. I joined Americorps for a summer program. At the end of the summer, I was to be awarded a $2000 dollar grant to help pay for school, which would have been very helpful to my family and myself. Americorps refused to pay me and several people i worked with because THEY did not keep their proper records.
So you worked a whole summer for nothing?


However, it took them 6 months to tell me this. They asked me to submit time sheets THREE times during that 6 months, and promised me each time that once they got them they would send the money.
After 6 months they said: "Sorry, no money for you."
Was your summer's pay to be the grant? Two thousand dollars tax free grant? And you got nothing, and that was ok with you?


Is that clearer? Or do I need to draw pictures?
By the way, no I do not get paid hourly. I do not get paid weekly. Yes, I do keep track of my SALARY and days worked. This has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about, so why you bring it up is beyond me.

Somehow, you are bitter because of an agreement not kept. It sounds like an incomplete story, like maybe the other side.

[Niagara]

What the hell are you talking about?!!

There is absolutely NO connection between this board and McKinley high school!
And just from your comments, it's quite obvious you have NO idea what happened at McKinley either!

Are you sniffing glue while posting---because damn dude! If you're going to make a comparison---try to have SOME connection!

"THE BUFFALO BILLS KEEP LOSING BECAUSE OF POOR COACHING. IT IS THIS BAD COACHING THAT CREATED THE GLOBAL WARMING DISASTER THAT WILL KILL US ALL!"

Please. Don't sniff and post.

Don't you understand there are board rules called Terms of Service, just as there are school rules of conduct pertaining to principals, teachers, and students. In the case of the rules at MHS, rules were broken by teachers, principal, and student, but only the student paid a price because the rules were selectively enforced.
You being a teacher must understand that.
BTW, is that the way teachers talk these days..."DUDE"?

[WNYresident]

I agree, none of this "hand shake crap" will do. I think the point here is the number is NOT 3.1 millioin dollars, and that effort will be made to make sure there that Americorp is money neutral to the town. There is still two more years and beyond to get the numbers stright. Your new President Obama likes Americorp, and it will be expanded. It is called income redistribution, like it or not.

Unconstitutional. Enough people will get pissed off and eventually take matters into their own hands.

Go read up The Declaration of Independence (http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm)


But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The men who wrote this should have added "like it or not".

[WNYresident]

You know, this banning for LIFE because someone figured out how to fudge the numbers of a fun poll. This crap about MISLEAD. Point is you ban people you don't like for life, and then let crap pass and pass and pass from people you do like.

There are a lot of people I do not like that still post here. Don't make assumptions.

[WNYresident]

The same could be said for any number of things. Why have a hockey rink? Why have a soccer park?
The point is the town is made up of many people, many with different values likes/dislikes. I own two peoperties in WS, and I have never played soccer or used the ice rink once, but I have used the park many times. Shouldn't I get something from my tax dollar?
And frankly, to you, everything is a waste of tax dollars. The problem is, yours is not the real world.


Mine is the real world. I see what mindless government spending has gotten us. We need to be competative with other communities in the USA. Spending money on ITEMS WE CLEARLY do not need makes us less competitive at this stage of the game.

[GhostofCharles]

The Burchfield Board of Directors are non paid volunteers.
The Burchfield Penny existance was subsidized by space given to it on the second floor of the Buffalo State College building for how many years?
The average government town/county/state spends one to five percent on cultural. This town probably spends less than that.
Reasonably, the agreement was probably crafted with periodic reevaluation/renewal in mind.
It is obvious that WP and SM have no appreciation of any value in promoting the town's history and culture through a park. The sad thing is we were not talking about alot of money. The sad thing is there is no vision within this present town administration.

Most if not all Board of Directors are non paid volunteers. That doesn't excuse them from doing nothing. You talk about no vision with the town administration, the problem was that there was no vision within the Burchfield Board of Directors, and nothing got done.

[yokes]

You know, this banning for LIFE because someone figured out how to fudge the numbers of a fun poll. This crap about MISLEAD. Point is you ban people you don't like for life, and then let crap pass and pass and pass from people you do like.

so looking throught the banned list (20 permanents since the board started) no-one was banned for inflating polls. perhaps your are mistaken.

My guess is he is one of the 10 or so that have been using multiple id's

[GhostofCharles]

I agree, none of this "hand shake crap" will do. I think the point here is the number is NOT 3.1 millioin dollars, and that effort will be made to make sure there that Americorp is money neutral to the town. There is still two more years and beyond to get the numbers stright. Your new President Obama likes Americorp, and it will be expanded. It is called income redistribution, like it or not.

You are missing the point entirely. I believe it has been documented on this site several times that Americorps owes the town 3.1 million. As a non for profit organization, at the end of the year, their balance should be $0.00. Over the past 2 years, the negative balance goes up by $1 million or so. This is overspending. There are issues of accountability from the Comptroller's office allowing this to happen and of Americorp's higher ups in doing the spending to begin with.

If it comes down to needing two years to pay off the debt, what will be cut from the program to make up for this? And "making an effort" is not a guarantee. If you are going to continue defending the program and the good that comes from it, why do you keep defending those that hold it back?

[GhostofCharles]

Americorps screwed me and several of my friends over hardcore one year. I worked all summer for them, and then they refused to hand me my scholarship grant because a supervisor messed up the time sheets.

I've had no love for that organization since.


Do you mind telling us what branch of Americorps you worked for?