Lancaster Reassessment

[Albie]

I have heard that Lancaster will be mailing out reassessment notices starting March 1st. Poperty's will be reassessed 100% of value is this true.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by Albie
I have heard that Lancaster will be mailing out reassessment notices starting March 1st. Poperty's will be reassessed 100% of value is this true.

Sad they'll say they didn't raise taxes but they will make you pay more on your home to support thier labor contracts

[therising]

The 100% evaluation will not impact the amount you pay in taxes. Theoretially, the tax rate would go down so that the amount you pay would be unchanged.
Theyre doing it because it simply makes more sense than having some crazy # (65%, 72.25%, whatever) as your equalization rate.
Also, the state gives the towns some money as an inducement to do it.

[WNYresident]

How does that change though... my assessment went up and I paid more taxes. If they are billing you at 80% and then started to bill you at 100% that's 20% more... what rate changed?

[therising]

Take Cheektowaga as an example.
hey use an equalization rate of 65%.
Let's say the assesor determines that a house is worth $100k. That property would have an "assessed rate" of $65,000. (i.e. 65% of assessed value) The assessed value would still be $100,000.

Now, the town has a tax rate. I'm making up #'s, now because I don't know what they are. Let's say the assessed rate is $20/1000. Your town tax would be 20x65, or $1,300.
If the town decided to go to 100% assessed value, your assessed value would stay the same, but your assessed rate would go up to $100,000.

The tax rate would then decrease accordingly to $13/1000 (13x100k = $1,300), so your taxes would stay the same.

If your assessed value went up, it's simply because the assessor determined that your property was worth more than the assessed value. The tax rate hasn't changed, neither has the equalization rate.

If the town re-assessed your property, then they probably did the whole town at the same time.

Keep in mind that your entitled to fight it, but there's a deadline every year. I THINK it's first week in June of every year.
Also, you better be well-armed if you plan on fighting it. If you think you're over-assessed, make sure you have sales of comparable properties to support your claim.

[WNYresident]

If your assessed value went up, it's simply because the assessor determined that your property was worth more than the assessed value. The tax rate hasn't changed, neither has the equalization rate.

But why should i pay more.. my road didn't get wider to plow and I ain't throwing away more garbage. Do they re-assess like that in other states? Or Do they re-assess once you sell your home?

[Albie]

Cheektowaga has been reassessing properties yearly for the last 6 years they use 65% as their guide line.Unfortunatly they take homes sold along with other homes on a pick and choose system,build up a property reassessment fund which is in the millions yearly,and never reduce their rates in fact they normally raise them 10% a year so beware of what Lancaster is doing they may have learned how to increase taxes,by watching what Cheektowaga's been getting away with.

[therising]

Originally posted by Albie
Cheektowaga has been reassessing properties yearly for the last 6 years they use 65% as their guide line.Unfortunatly they take homes sold along with other homes on a pick and choose system,build up a property reassessment fund which is in the millions yearly,and never reduce their rates in fact they normally raise them 10% a year so beware of what Lancaster is doing they may have learned how to increase taxes,by watching what Cheektowaga's been getting away with.

What does this have to do with Lancaster??? You're saying Cheek is at 65%, and they re-assess every year. Lancaster is going to 100%. So what?
What does one have to do with the other?

[farmall806]

Do they do just a "drive-by" assessment? Or do they actually go inside the house and inspect every room in the house?

farmall806

[therising]

Originally posted by WNYresident
But why should i pay more.. my road didn't get wider to plow and I ain't throwing away more garbage. Do they re-assess like that in other states? Or Do they re-assess once you sell your home?

I assume that you agree with the "everyone should pay their fair share" concept. I also assume that you feel that a large shopping strip should be paying more in taxes than your house?

So, guess what? There's good news! The town now says your property is more valuable than it used to be. (Be fair, it probably is!)
Unless you think they've assessed it for more than it's worth, you have no case.
I know that my house is under-assessed by about 20%. I also know that, someday, they'll re-assess it and I'll be momentarily pissed. Still, fair is fair, so I've got no reason to complain.

[farmall806]

The ORPS assessors training manual states that assessors are to inspect the inside of all properties. Are the assessors in your town doing that?

farmall806

[therising]

Originally posted by farmall806
Do they do just a "drive-by" assessment? Or do they actually go inside the house and inspect every room in the house?

farmall806

drive-by, as far as I know.

[therising]

Originally posted by farmall806
The ORPS assessors training manual states that assessors are to inspect the inside of all properties. Are the assessors in your town doing that?

farmall806

I don't think you want to open that can of worms. Can you imagine them walking around with a clipboard...."ahem, new cupboards I see.....Oh, you finished your basement, how nice"

[farmall806]

therising:

I see nothing wrong at all with town assessors doing a complete inside and outside inspection of the properties that they are assessing. In fact, if the assessors are going to 100 percent full value assessment of properties, I believe that it should be MANDATORY!! that they do just that. Here is my reasons:

1. When a person wants to buy a house, the bank that they are getting the mortgage from sends an appraiser from the bank to check out the property to see if it will appraise for the amount that they are asking for. The bank appraiser does an inside and outside inspection of the property. He does not just sit in his car and do a drive by appraisal of the property.

2. when a person is getting a home equity loan, the bank does the same thing.

3. When a person wants to sell their house, a real estate agent does a complete inspection of the house: inside and outside.

Why is it that people do not want the tax assessors inside their homes? I think the reasons are:

1. They could have a house that looks like a dump on the outside , but look like it is brand new on the inside. That would greatly affect the value of the house.

2. They know their house is worth a lot more that what it is currently assessed at and they don't want the assessors to know that fact.

Then there are those people that complain that their house is not worth what the assessors say it is, and yet some of those people are the very same people that will put their house on the market for 50,000 to 100,000 or more than what it is currently assessed at and they often get much more than what it is assessed for when they sell the house.

If they put their house on the market for more than what it is assessed for and get the selling price that they are asking for, they have in fact sold the house for its true market value. If a town is assessing at 100% full market value, and a property sells for more than full assessed value, the property owners were not IMHO paying their fair share in property taxes.

farmall806

[WNYresident]

It's too expensive here in WNY.

Over $4000 a year is what i pay for property taxes. I look and say for what? It's not justified in my opinion. Period.

[therising]

Originally posted by WNYresident
It's too expensive here in WNY.

Over $4000 a year is what i pay for property taxes. I look and say for what? It's not justified in my opinion. Period.

I'm not arguing that. I was simply trying to give you some insight to the assessment process.

Farmall - Ok, whatever. You want them in your house that's fine. I wouldn't prevent them from coming inside mine, I just wonder how costly/timely it would be for that to happen.

[SICKOFTAXES]

Originally posted by therising
Take Cheektowaga as an example.
hey use an equalization rate of 65%.
Let's say the assesor determines that a house is worth $100k. That property would have an "assessed rate" of $65,000. (i.e. 65% of assessed value) The assessed value would still be $100,000.

Now, the town has a tax rate. I'm making up #'s, now because I don't know what they are. Let's say the assessed rate is $20/1000. Your town tax would be 20x65, or $1,300.
If the town decided to go to 100% assessed value, your assessed value would stay the same, but your assessed rate would go up to $100,000.

The tax rate would then decrease accordingly to $13/1000 (13x100k = $1,300), so your taxes would stay the same.

If your assessed value went up, it's simply because the assessor determined that your property was worth more than the assessed value. The tax rate hasn't changed, neither has the equalization rate.

If the town re-assessed your property, then they probably did the whole town at the same time.

Keep in mind that your entitled to fight it, but there's a deadline every year. I THINK it's first week in June of every year.
Also, you better be well-armed if you plan on fighting it. If you think you're over-assessed, make sure you have sales of comparable properties to support your claim.

I Would really like to see the tax rate Decrease accordingly. You have to be kidding me!!

And since the assessor feels the value of my home has gone up over 40,000 since we purchased it two years ago I would really like to sell. What a great investment we made!!!

[SICKOFTAXES]

Originally posted by therising
I assume that you agree with the "everyone should pay their fair share" concept. I also assume that you feel that a large shopping strip should be paying more in taxes than your house?

So, guess what? There's good news! The town now says your property is more valuable than it used to be. (Be fair, it probably is!)
Unless you think they've assessed it for more than it's worth, you have no case.
I know that my house is under-assessed by about 20%. I also know that, someday, they'll re-assess it and I'll be momentarily pissed. Still, fair is fair, so I've got no reason to complain.

"BE fair it probably is????? You are kidding right??? Do you not see people tripping over each oyher trying to get out?? Do you see how many homes are going on the market? We won't be able to give our property away soon, we are so over taxed already. Who in their right mind would want to move here?? I really REALLY think our property values have dropped almost to the point the town, county and schools are gping to have to send us refunds soon!!

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by Albie
Cheektowaga has been reassessing properties yearly for the last 6 years they use 65% as their guide line.Unfortunatly they take homes sold along with other homes on a pick and choose system,build up a property reassessment fund which is in the millions yearly,and never reduce their rates in fact they normally raise them 10% a year so beware of what Lancaster is doing they may have learned how to increase taxes,by watching what Cheektowaga's been getting away with.

Getting away how? Specifically targeting to get more money out of the community to be able to hire more people and get raises and perks?

[therising]

Originally posted by SICKOFTAXES
"BE fair it probably is????? You are kidding right??? Do you not see people tripping over each oyher trying to get out?? Do you see how many homes are going on the market?

Stop whining, it's not very becoming.
Don't know exactly where you live, but Erie County housing values have been modestly appreciating:

from business first article:

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2005/02/07/daily4.html?GP=OTC-MJ1752087487

"Erie County posted the biggest jump in the region, 13 percent. The median resale price for homes in Erie County climbed from $89,900 in 2002 to $101,500 in 2004"

So, yes there's good news. Your house is probably worth more than it was a few years ago.
Challenge your assessment if you have a problem with that.

[Crusher]

I've been trying to schedule an appointment to challenge my $50K increased assessment but there is no answer at the number listed on my letter. I have left two messages but no one has called me back as they claimed they would. Anyone else get through?

BTW, if the assessments go up and taxes remain the same, I have no problem, but in my case, the taxes will increase $601 per year ($500 of it for school taxes). This will put me at nearly $5000 per year for taxes overall for a 35+ year old house thta is far from being fixed up.

[WNYresident]

$5000 a year.... makes you just wanna say good job local politicans doesn't it.

[SICKOFTAXES]

Originally posted by Crusher
I've been trying to schedule an appointment to challenge my $50K increased assessment but there is no answer at the number listed on my letter. I have left two messages but no one has called me back as they claimed they would. Anyone else get through?

BTW, if the assessments go up and taxes remain the same, I have no problem, but in my case, the taxes will increase $601 per year ($500 of it for school taxes). This will put me at nearly $5000 per year for taxes overall for a 35+ year old house thta is far from being fixed up.

gOOD LUCK, iF THE TAX RATE STAYS THE SAME! HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THE TAXES STAY THE SAME?? fIGHT THE ASSESSMENT THEN FIGHT EACH TAX, COUNTY, TOWN & SCHOOL!!!

[therising]

Originally posted by Crusher
BTW, if the assessments go up and taxes remain the same, I have no problem, but in my case, the taxes will increase $601 per year ($500 of it for school taxes).

Does anyone realize the significance of this post. For the past 4 months, 80% of the posts on this board have been acount COUNTY taxes. Shouldn't we be concentrating moreso on the layer upon layer upon layer upon layer of government?????

Double my County Taxes for all I care. They're the least of my worries.

[WNYresident]

Rising makes a good point... THe county tax isn't really what is breaking our backs.. it's the local thiefdoms...

[therising]

Of course no one wants to look at the real issues.

It's so much easier to say 'King Joel must go"

BTW how much are your county taxes? OK, and you're paying how much for school taxes?

[Crusher]

The real issue is that I do not want to pay any more monies out. I have hit the limit! My salary is reduced by the amount of the raise in taxes which means I have to make a personal concession somewhere to make up the difference. I have to reduce my expenses somewhere to pay the tax bill. Besides, how many people are going to WANT to move here, knowing the tax burden? My guess is the mass exit will begin once this is set in stone. Then, when they raise it again next year (as was reported in the News) - then what?:confused:

[SICKOFTAXES]

Originally posted by therising
Of course no one wants to look at the real issues.

It's so much easier to say 'King Joel must go"

BTW how much are your county taxes? OK, and you're paying how much for school taxes?

Are these school taxes based on my ASSESSMENT?? Thats why I'm so worried about my assessment, but since $50,000 is nothing to you maybe you would like to pay my taxes!:cool:

[SICKOFTAXES]

Originally posted by Crusher
The real issue is that I do not want to pay any more monies out. I have hit the limit! My salary is reduced by the amount of the raise in taxes which means I have to make a personal concession somewhere to make up the difference. I have to reduce my expenses somewhere to pay the tax bill. Besides, how many people are going to WANT to move here, knowing the tax burden? My guess is the mass exit will begin once this is set in stone. Then, when they raise it again next year (as was reported in the News) - then what?:confused:

I agree with you and if our taxes go so high we have to move away who will be left to fight the layers of gov.????:rolleyes:

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by Crusher
The real issue is that I do not want to pay any more monies out. I have hit the limit! My salary is reduced by the amount of the raise in taxes which means I have to make a personal concession somewhere to make up the difference. I have to reduce my expenses somewhere to pay the tax bill. Besides, how many people are going to WANT to move here, knowing the tax burden? My guess is the mass exit will begin once this is set in stone. Then, when they raise it again next year (as was reported in the News) - then what?:confused:

What they don't realize is we need to save for our own retirement and with this burden of taxes to guarantee the government workers retirements it's killing ours. OH along with the cost of THIER healthcare and above average salaries.

[thurlo weed]

It seems you all have strayed from the topic of this thread....I thought it was about the towns reassessment. In that vien may i just point out that not all gov't workers are over paid and have top shelf health care plans. Also gov't pensions are not cntrolled by county or local gov'ts...the public employee pension system here was created by NYS and administered by the State Comptrollers office. Local governments are powerless to change the pension program.

[glob]

:confused: I've read the posts in this thread - actually a couple of times to be sure I didn't miss what I was looking for.

I was looking for information on a couple items:

1) Relating to the Assessor in Lancaster: Does anyone know and could perhaps share with us, the qualifications of our current assessor, Mrs. Christine Fusco? Is this a competitively awarded position or strictly an appointment?

Why am I asking this? please keep in mind that I am not saying I believe this but I had heard that she obtained this position years ago mainly because of familia ties to a former Lancaster Supervisor - initials Lucian Greco.

2) Along the same lines - does an assessor assess thier own home? How does Ms. Fusco's assessment compare to other homes similiar to hers?

3) I imagine this position provides a good, steady salary. Here's the other area that I am confused in. If we are paying a good salary to Ms. Fusco, why did we also need to spend additional money to hire GAR to assist in the reassessments? What does Ms. Fusco do all year long? Why did she hire an assistant, and I imagine also earning a good buck - to do what? Is there any where that I can obtain this information? It was be public record??

Believe me, I am not attacking her not anyone else. I am simply putting questions out there in hopes that I can learn more because I don't like this uneasy feeling in my gut. I really want to keep my house, but it is becoming way expensive to stay in this area. I've already told my kids to move on up and out of here.

[glob]

Does anyone know where we can get the tax rates from all WNY towns, vilages? This forum (speakupwny) would be the ideal place to post them for comparison sake.

I'm sure that would give us all a bit more perspective.

[farmall806]

Go on the ORPS website and it has a complete list of all the town tax rates isted by county. From what I could find, it has the tax rates from 2003, but not 2004. It is definitly an eye opener when you compare one town's tax rate to another.

farmall806

[glob]

thanks very much Farmall! Much appreciated.....

glob

[thurlo weed]

The lancaster assessor is an appointed position. In NY assessors are either appointed (to 6 year terms), solely elected, or elected as part of a 3 member Board of Assessors. You are correct the appointed assessor was initially appointed by the former administration and then reappointed by the current administration; actually the appointment is made by the Town Board. In many cities the assessor position is a competitive civil service position.

If assessors reside in the community in which they live, they are not required by state law to do so, they are responsible for their own assessment, just as they are for all others. In most cases you will find an assessor will take extra care to make sure their inventory and value are accurate, many times making it a lilttle higher to blunt such criticism. I can tell you some assessors in NY State have been sued for malfeasence for playing games with their personal assessments.

As far as current tax rates, Erie County prints an annual report each year that list the tax rates, equalization rates, sales statistics, etc for every community in Erie County, this includes schools, towns, special district rates, etc. Your local assessor office, or tac clerk will have this, you may also get a copy for the Erie County Real Property Tax Director.

[glob]

Thanks very much Thurlo for the facts in reply to my email. We need to take mature, informed actions and reactions to move ahead united.

Again, thank you.

[SICKOFTAXES]

Originally posted by glob
:confused: I've read the posts in this thread - actually a couple of times to be sure I didn't miss what I was looking for.

I was looking for information on a couple items:

1) Relating to the Assessor in Lancaster: Does anyone know and could perhaps share with us, the qualifications of our current assessor, Mrs. Christine Fusco? Is this a competitively awarded position or strictly an appointment?

Why am I asking this? please keep in mind that I am not saying I believe this but I had heard that she obtained this position years ago mainly because of familia ties to a former Lancaster Supervisor - initials Lucian Greco.

2) Along the same lines - does an assessor assess thier own home? How does Ms. Fusco's assessment compare to other homes similiar to hers?

3) I imagine this position provides a good, steady salary. Here's the other area that I am confused in. If we are paying a good salary to Ms. Fusco, why did we also need to spend additional money to hire GAR to assist in the reassessments? What does Ms. Fusco do all year long? Why did she hire an assistant, and I imagine also earning a good buck - to do what? Is there any where that I can obtain this information? It was be public record??

Believe me, I am not attacking her not anyone else. I am simply putting questions out there in hopes that I can learn more because I don't like this uneasy feeling in my gut. I really want to keep my house, but it is becoming way expensive to stay in this area. I've already told my kids to move on up and out of here.


Hey therising!

Why din't you reply to this posting??? Like I said before you sure act like the town assessor and you wern't right here to answer this one... Gee I wonder why???? For being the person who seems to have all the answers on this assessment stuff what happened??:rolleyes:

[Son of Liberty]

Originally posted by farmall806
Go on the ORPS website and it has a complete list of all the town tax rates isted by county. From what I could find, it has the tax rates from 2003, but not 2004. It is definitly an eye opener when you compare one town's tax rate to another.

farmall806

What is the ORPS? Can you provide the web site address please?

[Crusher]

Here is something interesting cut directly from the ORPS site refering to fair assessments...

" My assessment was adjusted last year, and it’s been adjusted again this year. Why?

Each year, State Law requires your assessor to sign an oath that the assessments in your community represent a uniform percentage of market value.
The best way to ensure that assessments are consistently fair and uniform is to keep assessments up-to-date annually.
To encourage compliance with State Law, New York State provides State Aid of $5 per eligible parcel to municipalities that keep assessments at
100 percent of market value each year."

This paragraph was cut directly from the web page from http://www.orps.state.ny.us/pamphlet/fairassessments.htm

So my question is if this is true - then their is no way they can claim they haven't re-assessed Lancaster since 1990. If Lancaster did in fact receive the State Aid, then my assessment was actually correct since the Assessor had to sign off on it.
:confused: :confused:

[colossus27]

To call this infuriating is an understatement. My house was purchased with an assessed value of $76,200- whenever the last assessment was done, I'd guess.

I bought it for ~$122,000 in 2003. My 2005 assessment is $122,000.


There are four other homes on my street with more internal square footage, as well as larger parcels of land. All are assessed at least $10,000 less.
Link (http://www.speakupwny.com/article_2039.shtml)

After town residents had submitted over 400 signed petitions opposing the recent reassessment process in the Town of Lancaster, and after several residents spoke in support of the opposition, Town Assessor Christine Fusco was requested to address the Board to clarify the confusion, to give reasons for the reassessment and to counter the claims made by the opposition.

Council member Donna Stempniak asked Fusco whether a house could be reassessed when it’s sold. Fusco explained by example: If a house was assessed at time of sale for $60,000 and sold for $120,00, I as the Assessor cannot go in and single out that parcel on that street and go in and reassess that house at $120,000.

[therising]

You must feel foolish having overpaid for your home.

BTW - assessed values of comparable properties is irrelevant. (Reason being those properties could be over or under assessed).
The only thing that matters is what those properties solf for.

[colossus27]

Originally posted by therising
You must feel foolish having overpaid for your home.

BTW - assessed values of comparable properties is irrelevant. (Reason being those properties could be over or under assessed).
The only thing that matters is what those properties solf for.

Did I overpay or are the other four homes underassessed?

The house across the street was assessed at $138K with maybe 10% bigger square footage- this lines up sensibly with mine. That house has been occupied for five years or so, it's not a 'market value' price. Four others, as I mention, were assessed lower with greater square footage.

Looks to me like the assessments are inconsistent.

Why is the assessed value of a comparable property deemed irrelevant? If the market would bear the price I paid for the house- overpaid or not- why wouldn't it do the same for the other homes? It did for the one across the street but that doesn't apply for four homes down the streeet? I don't follow your logic here.

[thurlo weed]

BTW - assessed values of comparable properties is irrelevant. (Reason being those properties could be over or under assessed).

Rising sorry to say but you are misinformed. The value of comparable homes is relevent, Property tax law requires properties to be assessed at "a uniform percentage of value". Therefore the assessments {regardless of if they are over or under assessed} of comparable properties should be similiar. That is why the assessor should be comparing ranches to ranches, colonials to colonials, etc. they should also be grouped in terms of age, size and general location.

[Crusher]

They also should factor in the conditions of the inside and outside of the property. A house with a new kitchen is worth more than one with a 20 year-old kitchen. Considerations should be made for the roof, furnace, windows, siding, bathrooms, decking, etc.

You can't simply state houses with similar square footages compare in price. Also, the lot the house is on has to factor in. A house with green lands to the rear or side of the property are typically more desirable than those with houses all around.

[thurlo weed]

Crusher my response to Therising was dealing with the comparbale value question and I was discribing it in general terms. You are right there is more to the comparison than just style. You can also include: age, effective age, exterior wall materials, # of bathrooms, # of bedrooms, type of heat, central air conditioning, finished basements, basement types, lot size, garages, sheds, barns, pools....and the list goes on...... In the end, the key question is, are the values of comparable homes, when all is said and done, comparably assessed.

[therising]

Originally posted by thurlo weed
Rising sorry to say but you are misinformed. The value of comparable homes is relevent, Property tax law requires properties to be assessed at "a uniform percentage of value".

Sorry, Thurlo, but I'm right. And you are correct in stating that The value of comparable homes is relevent .
Fair Market Value is defined as what a property would sell for between a reasonable seller and reasonable buyer, not what the assessed value is.

Point being this - you can argue your assessment by saying "The house next door is virtually identical, but it sold last year for X$ less than my assessment", but you CAN"T say "The house next door is virtually identical to mine, but it's assessed for less, so I want my assessment reduced as well".

The reasoning behind this is that the house next door may or may not be assessed correctly. That's up to your neighbor and the assessor to discuss. It's not ammunition that you can use.

[therising]

Colossus - please see my reply above.

By your own admission, your house is assessed correctly. Pointing out to the assessor that your neighbor's houses are under-assessed is fine (as long as you're not my neighbor), but it's not going to help your case.

[thurlo weed]

Rising..when contesting an assessment a property owner may do so on the grounds of: 1. an over assessment - meaning the property is assessed above its value. 2. an unequal assessment - meaning it is assessed at a different level than other properties. 3. an illegal assessment - meaning the property is subject to taxation by that jurisdiction.

I think we can all agree on the over assessment basis, that is the one that most of this board has been focused upon. The second basis, unequal treatment, is where the property owner assessed higher than his comparable neighbors may use those neighboring assessments as the basis of her/her complaint.

[therising]

Originally posted by thurlo weed
The second basis, unequal treatment, is where the property owner assessed higher than his comparable neighbors may use those neighboring assessments as the basis of her/her complaint.

I really didn't think that was the case, but I'm willing to take your word for it.

Maybe I was wrong.