What do you think of your Democratic friends now?

[mikenold]

More than 70% of Americans want to open offshore drilling, and what do our Democratic leaders in the Senate do? Go on a 5 week vacation of course! :mad: They just don't care what you pay for gas or about the will of the people. These people have got to go!

A group of House Republicans staged a revolt after Democrats passed a non-debatable adjournment resolution to shut down the chamber for a five-week vacation.

Even though lights, microphones and C-SPAN cameras were turned off, about 40 Republicans took to the House floor and railed against Speaker Nancy Pelosi's (D-California) refusal to hold a vote on legislation to allow offshore oil drilling. Their speeches were met with applause from tourists in the visitor's gallery.

One of the GOP protesters, Representative Thad McCotter (R-Michigan), says Republicans were "silenced in a Stalinist manner." "It's a representative government. Our constituents are outraged at the way the Democrats have run this Congress into the ground and done nothing on their behalf, and we were not going to have our people's voices silenced, and we're not going to let this issue go because it's not about Republican or Democrat, it's about American[s]," he argues. "Working Americans cannot afford to wait for gas price relief just because the Speaker wants them to."

He believes part of the reason Congress is so hated by the American people is because they "care more about politics than about working people." "That is why they went on a five-week paid vacation without doing their job," McCotter contends.

McCotter says he understands that Nancy Pelosi's commitment to environmental extremism would lead her to block a vote on increasing domestic energy production, but he does not understand why she would stop members from even talking about the issue on the House floor.

At least some members wanted to postpone vacation until the American people were taken care of! This is an Outrage!!!

[mesue]

Like I said; we get the government we deserve.

[winfield31]

More than 70% of Americans want to open offshore drilling, and what do our Democratic leaders in the Senate do? Go on a 5 week vacation of course! :mad: They just don't care what you pay for gas or about the will of the people. These people have got to go!

A group of House Republicans staged a revolt after Democrats passed a non-debatable adjournment resolution to shut down the chamber for a five-week vacation.

Even though lights, microphones and C-SPAN cameras were turned off, about 40 Republicans took to the House floor and railed against Speaker Nancy Pelosi's (D-California) refusal to hold a vote on legislation to allow offshore oil drilling. Their speeches were met with applause from tourists in the visitor's gallery.

One of the GOP protesters, Representative Thad McCotter (R-Michigan), says Republicans were "silenced in a Stalinist manner." "It's a representative government. Our constituents are outraged at the way the Democrats have run this Congress into the ground and done nothing on their behalf, and we were not going to have our people's voices silenced, and we're not going to let this issue go because it's not about Republican or Democrat, it's about American[s]," he argues. "Working Americans cannot afford to wait for gas price relief just because the Speaker wants them to."

He believes part of the reason Congress is so hated by the American people is because they "care more about politics than about working people." "That is why they went on a five-week paid vacation without doing their job," McCotter contends.

McCotter says he understands that Nancy Pelosi's commitment to environmental extremism would lead her to block a vote on increasing domestic energy production, but he does not understand why she would stop members from even talking about the issue on the House floor.

At least some members wanted to postpone vacation until the American people were taken care of! This is an Outrage!!!very sad , a gov't bought & paid for by PAC's , seen gas was "down" to $4.13 is some spots , "they" (Congress/Senate) just don't care , think we should thank them for the dime drop.............yes they should have delayed that 5 weeks & voted for us , good post mike !

[CSense]

FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. March 11-12, 2003. N=900 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=550 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=550 colSpan=7>"It is estimated that the war in Iraq will cost each U.S. taxpayer about 300 dollars. Do you think it is worth 300 dollars per taxpayer to disarm Iraq and remove Iraqi President Saddam Hussein from power?"
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=48></TD><TD width=108></TD><TD align=middle width=79>%</TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=80>.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=48></TD><TD width=108>Yes</TD><TD align=middle width=79>69</TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=80>.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=48></TD><TD width=108>No</TD><TD align=middle width=79>23</TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=80>.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=48></TD><TD width=108>Not sure</TD><TD align=middle width=79>8</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=550 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=559 colSpan=7>ABC News Poll. March 5-9, 2003. N=1,032 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3. Fieldwork by TNS Intersearch.</TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82>.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=559 colSpan=7>"Would you favor or oppose having U.S. forces take military action against Iraq to force Saddam Hussein from power?" Asked of half the sample</TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116></TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=82>Favor</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=82>Oppose</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=82>No
Opinion</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=82></TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116></TD><TD align=middle width=82>%</TD><TD align=middle width=82>%</TD><TD align=middle width=82>%</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>3/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>65</TD><TD align=middle width=82>30</TD><TD align=middle width=82>5</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>2/19-23/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>63</TD><TD align=middle width=82>31</TD><TD align=middle width=82>6</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>2/6-9/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>66</TD><TD align=middle width=82>31</TD><TD align=middle width=82>2</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>2/5/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>67</TD><TD align=middle width=82>27</TD><TD align=middle width=82>6</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>1/30 - 2/1/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>66</TD><TD align=middle width=82>31</TD><TD align=middle width=82>3</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>1/28/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>63</TD><TD align=middle width=82>32</TD><TD align=middle width=82>5</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>1/27/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>61</TD><TD align=middle width=82>36</TD><TD align=middle width=82>3</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>1/16-20/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>57</TD><TD align=middle width=82>41</TD><TD align=middle width=82>3</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>12/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>62</TD><TD align=middle width=82>35</TD><TD align=middle width=82>3</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>11/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>64</TD><TD align=middle width=82>29</TD><TD align=middle width=82>7</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>9/23-26/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>61</TD><TD align=middle width=82>34</TD><TD align=middle width=82>5</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>9/12-14/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>68</TD><TD align=middle width=82>29</TD><TD align=middle width=82>3</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>8/29/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>56</TD><TD align=middle width=82>34</TD><TD align=middle width=82>10</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>8/7-11/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>69</TD><TD align=middle width=82>22</TD><TD align=middle width=82>9</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>3/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>72</TD><TD align=middle width=82>24</TD><TD align=middle width=82>4</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>1/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>71</TD><TD align=middle width=82>24</TD><TD align=middle width=82>4</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>12/01</TD><TD align=middle width=82>72</TD><TD align=middle width=82>24</TD><TD align=middle width=82>5</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>11/01</TD><TD align=middle width=82>78</TD><TD align=middle width=82>17</TD><TD align=middle width=82>6</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=620 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=620 colSpan=7>CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. July 27-29, 2008. N=1,041 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults).
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=15></TD><TD width=126></TD><TD width=100></TD><TD width=101></TD><TD width=101></TD><TD width=101>.
</TD><TD width=78></TD></TR><TR><TD width=620 colSpan=7>"Do you favor or oppose the U.S. war in Iraq?"
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=15></TD><TD width=126></TD><TD width=100></TD><TD width=101></TD><TD width=101></TD><TD width=101>.
</TD><TD width=78></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom width=15></TD><TD width=126></TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=100>Favor</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=101>Oppose</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=101>Unsure</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=101> </TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=78> </TD></TR><TR><TD width=15></TD><TD width=126></TD><TD align=middle width=100>%</TD><TD align=middle width=101>%</TD><TD align=middle width=101>%</TD><TD align=middle width=101> </TD><TD align=middle width=78> </TD></TR><TR><TD width=15></TD><TD borderColor=#ffffff align=left width=126 bgColor=#ffffff>7/27-29/08
</TD><TD align=middle width=100>33</TD><TD align=middle width=101>66</TD><TD align=middle width=101>1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[CSense]

I was puzzled becuase I hadn't heard of that poll but then I found it...

" ....71% favor offshore drilling, according to a Fox News opinion poll. ..."

That make me wonder....

how the question was asked? Sounds like a poll with spin. If it had been asked whether they:
(1) Favor offshore drilling generally.
(2) Favor offshore drilling when price relief at pumps was 10 years off.
(3) Favor offshore drilling, knowing that bidding on leases would not start before 2011.
(4) Favor offshore drilling, if it had zero effect on gas pump prices.

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by winfield31

very sad , a gov't bought & paid for by PAC's , seen gas was "down" to $4.13 is some spots , "they" (Congress/Senate) just don't care , think we should thank them for the dime drop.............yes they should have delayed that 5 weeks & voted for us , good post mike !

Of the money that is thrown around in Washington to buy influence, much of it comes from the oil lobby. With that rationale, one would think that offshore drilling would have happened already, and as much as it might surprise some, the money is taken on both sides of the aisle.

The influence of the oil lobby has put a damper on research and development of alternative fuel sources for a long time. All of a sudden, gas prices spike because overnight (in a historical perspective) the demand for oil is out of control. It's amazing that these uber-companies have no one in their employ that looks at demand down the road, to forecast the companys' needs in the future. Either someone's fooling someone, someone wants something really bad, or someone's really stupid (the oil companies hire some really good bean counters, so we'll throw out the stupid option on their part).

The American people should be demanding that all resources be used to get away from oil dependency. Face it, drilling offshore, while applying a small band-aid, will not solve anything. As soon as people realize that, we can all look ahead, not backwards. This should have been done decades ago, unfortunately oil money got in the way...and they're complaining.

Insinuating that oil is the only way out and that we must drill at all costs, makes one wonder if the world has either gone technologically dumb or just incredibly blind. Technology seems to be doing just fine in every other area besides energy creation, it must be option B.

[mikenold]

FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. March 11-12, 2003. N=900 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=550 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=550 colSpan=7>"It is estimated that the war in Iraq will cost each U.S. taxpayer about 300 dollars. Do you think it is worth 300 dollars per taxpayer to disarm Iraq and remove Iraqi President Saddam Hussein from power?"
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=48></TD><TD width=108></TD><TD align=middle width=79>%</TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=80>.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=48></TD><TD width=108>Yes</TD><TD align=middle width=79>69</TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=80>.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=48></TD><TD width=108>No</TD><TD align=middle width=79>23</TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=79></TD><TD align=middle width=80>.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=48></TD><TD width=108>Not sure</TD><TD align=middle width=79>8</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=550 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=559 colSpan=7>ABC News Poll. March 5-9, 2003. N=1,032 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3. Fieldwork by TNS Intersearch.</TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82>.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=559 colSpan=7>"Would you favor or oppose having U.S. forces take military action against Iraq to force Saddam Hussein from power?" Asked of half the sample</TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116></TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=82>Favor</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=82>Oppose</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=82>No
Opinion</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=82></TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116></TD><TD align=middle width=82>%</TD><TD align=middle width=82>%</TD><TD align=middle width=82>%</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>3/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>65</TD><TD align=middle width=82>30</TD><TD align=middle width=82>5</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>2/19-23/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>63</TD><TD align=middle width=82>31</TD><TD align=middle width=82>6</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>2/6-9/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>66</TD><TD align=middle width=82>31</TD><TD align=middle width=82>2</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>2/5/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>67</TD><TD align=middle width=82>27</TD><TD align=middle width=82>6</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>1/30 - 2/1/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>66</TD><TD align=middle width=82>31</TD><TD align=middle width=82>3</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>1/28/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>63</TD><TD align=middle width=82>32</TD><TD align=middle width=82>5</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>1/27/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>61</TD><TD align=middle width=82>36</TD><TD align=middle width=82>3</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>1/16-20/03</TD><TD align=middle width=82>57</TD><TD align=middle width=82>41</TD><TD align=middle width=82>3</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>12/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>62</TD><TD align=middle width=82>35</TD><TD align=middle width=82>3</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>11/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>64</TD><TD align=middle width=82>29</TD><TD align=middle width=82>7</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>9/23-26/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>61</TD><TD align=middle width=82>34</TD><TD align=middle width=82>5</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>9/12-14/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>68</TD><TD align=middle width=82>29</TD><TD align=middle width=82>3</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>8/29/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>56</TD><TD align=middle width=82>34</TD><TD align=middle width=82>10</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>8/7-11/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>69</TD><TD align=middle width=82>22</TD><TD align=middle width=82>9</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>3/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>72</TD><TD align=middle width=82>24</TD><TD align=middle width=82>4</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>1/02</TD><TD align=middle width=82>71</TD><TD align=middle width=82>24</TD><TD align=middle width=82>4</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>12/01</TD><TD align=middle width=82>72</TD><TD align=middle width=82>24</TD><TD align=middle width=82>5</TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD><TD align=middle width=82></TD></TR><TR><TD width=26></TD><TD width=116>11/01</TD><TD align=middle width=82>78</TD><TD align=middle width=82>17</TD><TD align=middle width=82>6</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" borderColor=#111111 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=620 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=620 colSpan=7>CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. July 27-29, 2008. N=1,041 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults).
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=15></TD><TD width=126></TD><TD width=100></TD><TD width=101></TD><TD width=101></TD><TD width=101>.
</TD><TD width=78></TD></TR><TR><TD width=620 colSpan=7>"Do you favor or oppose the U.S. war in Iraq?"
</TD></TR><TR><TD width=15></TD><TD width=126></TD><TD width=100></TD><TD width=101></TD><TD width=101></TD><TD width=101>.
</TD><TD width=78></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom width=15></TD><TD width=126></TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=100>Favor</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=101>Oppose</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=101>Unsure</TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=101> </TD><TD vAlign=bottom align=middle width=78> </TD></TR><TR><TD width=15></TD><TD width=126></TD><TD align=middle width=100>%</TD><TD align=middle width=101>%</TD><TD align=middle width=101>%</TD><TD align=middle width=101> </TD><TD align=middle width=78> </TD></TR><TR><TD width=15></TD><TD borderColor=#ffffff align=left width=126 bgColor=#ffffff>7/27-29/08
</TD><TD align=middle width=100>33</TD><TD align=middle width=101>66</TD><TD align=middle width=101>1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>







I don't see why you posted all this nonsense. It doesn't have anything to do with the topic. Please try and be intelligent when posting and stay on topic.

[mikenold]

I was puzzled becuase I hadn't heard of that poll but then I found it...

[/B]

That make me wonder....

how the question was asked? Sounds like a poll with spin. If it had been asked whether they:
(1) Favor offshore drilling generally.
(2) Favor offshore drilling when price relief at pumps was 10 years off.
(3) Favor offshore drilling, knowing that bidding on leases would not start before 2011.
(4) Favor offshore drilling, if it had zero effect on gas pump prices.

It really doesn't puzzle me. I favor it. An awful lot of people I have talked to favor it. In fact I don't recall anyone saying they don't want us to drill. Or, are you puzzled because you don't want to believe that the majority don't agree with your thinking?

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by mikenold

I don't see why you posted all this nonsense. It doesn't have anything to do with the topic. Please try and be intelligent when posting and stay on topic.

I would think that it was to illustrate that a high percentage of people polled are against the military action in Iraq, much the same as the high percentage that want drilling.

How about a compromise based on poll numbers. The US leaves Iraq, The US drills. Everybody happy?

[CSense]

I don't see why you posted all this nonsense. It doesn't have anything to do with the topic. Please try and be intelligent when posting and stay on topic.

Well most intelligent people would see the logic. Here let me explain, In 2003 voters were asked if they supported the War in Iraq, overwhelming they did 65% to 30%. Asked the same question today, 33% favor to 66% do not favor. Hello, wonder why that is?

Polls are static, much like your thinking. Most polls are done in the "heat" of a controversial position, thus unsound judgments. Hey lets go to war! The ridiculous suggestion by Fix News that the war would cost us $300.00 a person is now up to $1,721 per person and 4,126 American deaths. Shows you what knee jerk thinking and decision making will get you.

People want drilling because they "think" it will have an impact on "current" gas prices, which is clearly wrong. Also, they "think" that we (USA) get 70% of our oil from The Middle East, wrong again.

What will the true costs be for drilling? Will it actually affect gas prices? Will it actually cause better security for the USA? Will that oil actually go to the USA or be spread across the globe for international use? How about we do some serious thinking and research first?

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by CSense

What will the true costs be for drilling?

Using what measure? Dollars? Environment? Wasted time?

Will it actually affect gas prices?

Of course not.

Will it actually cause better security for the USA?

Nope. Although it might take a few sheckles away from the people that support terrorism around the world.

Will that oil actually go to the USA or be spread across the globe for international use?

A great question. My sense says, it's a business. Chinese and Indian money all tastes the same.

How about we do some serious thinking and research first?

A novel idea that's a few decades too late.

[mikenold]

Well most intelligent people would see the logic. Here let me explain, In 2003 voters were asked if they supported the War in Iraq, overwhelming they did 65% to 30%. Asked the same question today, 33% favor to 66% do not favor. Hello, wonder why that is?

Polls are static, much like your thinking. Most polls are done in the "heat" of a controversial position, thus unsound judgments. Hey lets go to war! The ridiculous suggestion by Fix News that the war would cost us $300.00 a person is now up to $1,721 per person and 4,126 American deaths. Shows you what knee jerk thinking and decision making will get you.

People want drilling because they "think" it will have an impact on "current" gas prices, which is clearly wrong. Also, they "think" that we (USA) get 70% of our oil from The Middle East, wrong again.

What will the true costs be for drilling? Will it actually affect gas prices? Will it actually cause better security for the USA? Will that oil actually go to the USA or be spread across the globe for international use? How about we do some serious thinking and research first?

Polls are static. OK. But that is not the point of this thread. The thread concerns the Democrats in the Senate going home for 5 weeks instead of trying to help the people, who polled 71% according to the poll you cited as wanting to open offshore drilling (there are other "static" polls that bear the same results at varios times in the past week or so).

July 30, 2008
Poll: Most Americans want offshore drilling
Posted: 11:00 AM ET
From CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney
(CNN) — More than two thirds of Americans say they favor increasing drilling efforts off America's costs while only 30 percent disapprove of such action.

19 Jun 2008
Rasmussen Reports did a poll that they tout as showing "67 percent Support Offshore Drilling."

In fact the "static" polls seem to show a trend upward of American who favor offshore drilling. You do pose some very good questions about the drilling. These are the very questions that should be debated on the Senate floor rather than sitting idle while these dolts go home to vacation for 5 weeks. What an outrage!

[mikenold]

I would think that it was to illustrate that a high percentage of people polled are against the military action in Iraq, much the same as the high percentage that want drilling.

How about a compromise based on poll numbers. The US leaves Iraq, The US drills. Everybody happy?

I would say the will of the people should demand action. However, again staying on topic, the Democrats went home on vacation for 5 weeks instead of listening to any of us (this includes you and me). This is the outrage, not the polling numbers! Holy Cow, can't you see the forest for the trees.

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by mikenold

I would say the will of the people should demand action. However, again staying on topic, the Democrats went home on vacation for 5 weeks instead of listening to any of us (this includes you and me). This is the outrage, not the polling numbers! Holy Cow, can't you see the forest for the trees.

They go on vacation every year, the big deal is?

Why is drilling the only issue that you have in their going on vacation? This country is a damned mess. There's a hell of a lot of things to do. If you're going to complain, do it on the whole, not for one specific issue. As mentioned before, this problem is decades old. 5 more weeks isn't going to make it any worse or any better.

And stop blaming Democrats, they are both in the same bed. Criminey!

A group of House Republicans staged a revolt after Democrats passed a non-debatable adjournment resolution to shut down the chamber for a five-week vacation.

My guess is that all of them went home too. Or are they all staying in Washington looking to tackle the issue head on when the Dems return?

Why is it that when Dems "stage a revolt", the Republicans nip out over it?

Remember, the operative word in the above quote is "staged". That's what they all do to get you so worked up while they are out for five weeks tanning on the yacht with Scooter and a bunch of prostitutes. To make it worse, the oil companies probably paid for the yacht. So much for sinking those record profits into the R&D department.

[CSense]

In fact the "static" polls seem to show a trend upward of American who favor offshore drilling. You do pose some very good questions about the drilling. These are the very questions that should be debated on the Senate floor rather than sitting idle while these dolts go home to vacation for 5 weeks. What an outrage!

Polls should not decide debate. Yes Congress should debate the validity of oil drilling but it should not be at the behest of "static" polling. Who cares if Americans "today" want more drilling. That is not the appropriate function of Congress.

The outrage should be a knee jerk reaction of Congress to make a political decision on the false pretense that drilling, which is currently polling positively, is good for Americans for the possibility of votes (reelection).

Do you think Congress should debate the further facilitation of abortion if polling showed an upward trend that Americans wanted more access?

[mikenold]

Polls should not decide debate. Yes Congress should debate the validity of oil drilling but it should not be at the behest of "static" polling. Who cares if Americans "today" want more drilling. That is not the appropriate function of Congress.

It is also most obvious that you are of the liberal school of "Who cares what the American people want-We know better". Those in Congress are supposed to be writing and passing laws, But they are also supposed to do what their constituents ask of them, which is helping the people who vote for them (constituents). Or, in this case, at the behest of 71% of the constituents.

The outrage should be a knee jerk reaction of Congress to make a political decision on the false pretense that drilling, which is currently polling positively, is good for Americans for the possibility of votes (reelection).

You really are joking about the whole "is good for Americans for the possibility of votes (reelection)" thing, aren't you? The focus should be on the people they serve, not how to get votes.

Do you think Congress should debate the further facilitation of abortion if polling showed an upward trend that Americans wanted more access?

Here is another Liberal tactic. If you can't debate the subject, just bring up another one. Again, we are trying to keep on topic here. Just answer the question at hand. Don't you find it an outrage that the Congressional Democrats would not debate or vote on offshore drilling, but would instead go home on vacation and leave us paying higher prices for another 5 weeks at least?

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by CSense

Do you think Congress should debate the further facilitation of abortion if polling showed an upward trend that Americans wanted more access?

Absolutely, but only if 70% or more of the American people are in favor of it (and it's on the talking points memo). The only problem is that if they go on vacation for 5 weeks, some might be past the point of getting the abortion they so desperately desire. Then it would be murder.

A great election time headline: Dem Congress Kills Kids, Enjoys Vacation.

Republicans once again show their stupidity, they should have started yapping about abortion before the break instead of drilling. They might even take back some seats with that one...and win the presidency when all of the religious nuts come out of the woodworks again using that as the basis of the "qualifications" of a candidate. No wonder the founders of this country wanted a separation of church and state. Although, if they would have thought otherwise back then, think of how many people they could have kept blinded as to the state of the country while the One Issue Annies went crazy on their crusade of righteousness.

Hallelujah!!

[mikenold]

They go on vacation every year, the big deal is?

Why is drilling the only issue that you have in their going on vacation? This country is a damned mess. There's a hell of a lot of things to do. If you're going to complain, do it on the whole, not for one specific issue. As mentioned before, this problem is decades old. 5 more weeks isn't going to make it any worse or any better.

And stop blaming Democrats, they are both in the same bed. Criminey!



My guess is that all of them went home too. Or are they all staying in Washington looking to tackle the issue head on when the Dems return?

Why is it that when Dems "stage a revolt", the Republicans nip out over it?

Remember, the operative word in the above quote is "staged". That's what they all do to get you so worked up while they are out for five weeks tanning on the yacht with Scooter and a bunch of prostitutes. To make it worse, the oil companies probably paid for the yacht. So much for sinking those record profits into the R&D department.

They did not all go home. Only the Democrats left. The Republicans are still there asking that Pelosi and her ilk come back and finish the debate. You may not mind at least 5 more weeks of higher prices, but I would like to see the price continue to drop throughout the entire 5 weeks and more.

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by mikenold

They did not all go home. Only the Democrats left. The Republicans are still there asking that Pelosi and her ilk come back and finish the debate. You may not mind at least 5 more weeks of higher prices, but I would like to see the price continue to drop throughout the entire 5 weeks and more.

Good. Then in five weeks, we can expect well crafted policy created by the non-vacationing Republican heroes of the people to be debated that will include a complete solution to the problem at hand, not just simply saying, "we want to drill".

Somehow, I don't think that is going to happen. So much for the will of the people. Maybe we'll all be surprised.

I, for one, will not be holding my breath. As we all can see, many of these same people have been in Washington for a looooooong time. That it has come to this point is a failure that they all can share.

[CSense]

It is also most obvious that you are of the liberal school of "Who cares what the American people want-We know better".

Obviously you don't know me.

Here is another Liberal tactic. If you can't debate the subject, just bring up another one.

No I diant! I stayed on course with oil drilling. You BTW can't answer a question.

I admitted that polling is bull****. I said we (Americans) shouldn't expect our government to make rash decisions on static polling. You on the other hand feel that is the way we should run our government. I just gave you an example where you'd be outraged if we stayed with your current line of thought.

BTW you didn't answer the question. If I agree with your premise that because today 71% of the population wants us to drill, then we drill. If tomorrow 71% of the population wants us to increase abortions, I say let's start the slaughter.

That's the problem with conservatives, they can't apply the same logic or thought pattern to all issues, only the ones they disagree with liberals on. It's do as I say not as I do!

Please do us a favor and keep making lame objections to well founded questions. Your blind arrogance to conservative issues make the "liberals" look smarter.

[mikenold]

Good. Then in five weeks, we can expect well crafted policy created by the non-vacationing Republican heroes of the people to be debated that will include a complete solution to the problem at hand, not just simply saying, "we want to drill".

Somehow, I don't think that is going to happen. So much for the will of the people. Maybe we'll all be surprised.

I, for one, will not be holding my breath. As we all can see, many of these same people have been in Washington for a looooooong time. That it has come to this point is a failure that they all can share.

It is at least 5 weeks from now due to the obstinate Democrats. The issue would be settled today if the Republicans had their way.

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by mikenold

Here is another Liberal tactic. If you can't debate the subject, just bring up another one.

Originally Posted by mikenold from thread http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21500&page=2

Most, being believers in Abortion as Birth control, are already eliminating themselves from the Gene pool.

Liberal.

[mikenold]

Obviously you don't know me.



No I diant! I stayed on course with oil drilling. You BTW can't answer a question.

I admitted that polling is bull****. I said we (Americans) shouldn't expect our government to make rash decisions on static polling. You on the other hand feel that is the way we should run our government. I just gave you an example where you'd be outraged if we stayed with your current line of thought.

BTW you didn't answer the question. If I agree with your premise that because today 71% of the population wants us to drill, then we drill. If tomorrow 71% of the population wants us to increase abortions, I say let's start the slaughter.

That's the problem with conservatives, they can't apply the same logic or thought pattern to all issues, only the ones they disagree with liberals on. It's do as I say not as I do!

Please do us a favor and keep making lame objections to well founded questions. Your blind arrogance to conservative issues make the "liberals" look smarter.

Believe me if 70% of the people wanted to increase Abortions the Democrats would still be in the Chamber! Apply the logic then and repeat after me. "The Republicans want to help the American people pay less for gas, the Democrats want to help the American people kill more babies." I have now applied the same logic or thought pattern to all issues. I don't know you, but I also don't know why you are defending the Democrats for leaving us high and dry.

[mikenold]

Liberal.

At least when I said this:

Quote:
Most, being believers in Abortion as Birth control, are already eliminating themselves from the Gene pool.

I was on topic!

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by mikenold

It is at least 5 weeks from now due to the obstinate Democrats. The issue would be settled today if the Republicans had their way.

In what fashion? If it's simply "drill", they failed miserably and should have just gone on vacation. Why is it that you fail to see that these are the same people that have failed you in this regard for many, many years, but for some reason they now have the magical answer that is not a solution? Why are you not demanding a clear, precise plan for correcting the energy problem in this country that is long overdue?

Stop blaming one party. They are both responsible for this mess. As soon as you realize this, you can start to get to the heart of the problem, and a solution.

At least when I said this:

Quote:
Most, being believers in Abortion as Birth control, are already eliminating themselves from the Gene pool.

I was on topic!

errrrrrrr..............OK......if you say so........

[CSense]

Believe me if 70% of the people wanted to increase Abortions the Democrats would still be in the Chamber! Apply the logic then and repeat after me. "The Republicans want to help the American people pay less for gas, the Democrats want to help the American people kill more babies." I have now applied the same logic or thought pattern to all issues. I don't know you, but I also don't know why you are defending the Democrats for leaving us high and dry.

See again, you just don't get it. I'm not defending anything. I am questioning your thought process.

To force Congress to make a decision simply on the basis of static polling is ridiculous, be it oil drilling, abortion, waging a war, space exploration, income tax, etc.

Yes, I said that Congress should debate the issue. But it is not that egregious that you hold the democrats totally responsible. Where was the Republican leadership some nine months ago? It's just a political ploy to make uninformed people angry, evidently it worked.

BTW, what if Congress said no? You clearly are under the impression that drilling will be a positive thing...

You may not mind at least 5 more weeks of higher prices, but I would like to see the price continue to drop throughout the entire 5 weeks and more.

Don't you find it an outrage that the Congressional Democrats would not debate or vote on offshore drilling, but would instead go home on vacation and leave us paying higher prices for another 5 weeks at least?

Do you want a debate or a rubber stamp? Where do you get your facts from? Show me where gas prices will fall if the US decides to drill.

[mikenold]

In what fashion? If it's simply "drill", they failed miserably and should have just gone on vacation. Why is it that you fail to see that these are the same people that have failed you in this regard for many, many years, but for some reason they now have the magical answer that is not a solution? Why are you not demanding a clear, precise plan for correcting the energy problem in this country that is long overdue?

Stop blaming one party. They are both responsible for this mess. As soon as you realize this, you can start to get to the heart of the problem, and a solution.


Drilling should be a part of any comprehensive plan on energy. Alternatives need to be looked at. I started this thread because I am angry that a strategy could have been started today. But was squelched by one of the parties. I realize that both parties are responsible for the mess this country is in. Today it was only one party that held us back. I am certain that this is because the Democrats want it both ways. They will be able to say they were against drilling if the issue comes up, but the congressional moratorium on drilling offshore ends in September anyway.

[mikenold]

See again, you just don't get it. I'm not defending anything. I am questioning your thought process.

To force Congress to make a decision simply on the basis of static polling is ridiculous, be it oil drilling, abortion, waging a war, space exploration, income tax, etc.

Yes, I said that Congress should debate the issue. But it is not that egregious that you hold the democrats totally responsible. Where was the Republican leadership some nine months ago? It's just a political ploy to make uninformed people angry, evidently it worked.

BTW, what if Congress said no? You clearly are under the impression that drilling will be a positive thing...

Do you want a debate or a rubber stamp? Where do you get your facts from? Show me where gas prices will fall if the US decides to drill.

Gas prices have already fallen after Bush killed the presidential moratorium on offshore drilling. If speculators see that supply will increase then the price they are willing to pay will go down as will the prices at the pump.

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by mikenold

It is at least 5 weeks from now due to the obstinate Democrats. The issue would be settled today if the Republicans had their way.

Unless we enter another military action, you should get your wish without any debate whatsoever. The summer is ending, gas prices will drop, just like they always do.

I realize that both parties are responsible for the mess this country is in.

I am certain that this is because the Democrats want it both ways.

Ughhhh...

They will be able to say they were against drilling if the issue comes up, but the congressional moratorium on drilling offshore ends in September anyway.

You mean, in about five weeks. I guess the revolt was staged.

Politics on both sides, yet you complain about the will of the people.

Nostradamus sez: It looks like another quarter of record profits for the oil companies.

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by mikenold

Gas prices have already fallen after Bush killed the presidential moratorium on offshore drilling. If speculators see that supply will increase then the price they are willing to pay will go down as will the prices at the pump.

Interesting timing to claim that prices have fallen due to the actions of a politician. I knew that they would start to drop a few weeks ago too. As stated above, it happens every year. To claim that Bush's actions did this is pure folly.

[CSense]

Gas prices have already fallen after Bush killed the presidential moratorium on offshore drilling. If speculators see that supply will increase then the price they are willing to pay will go down as will the prices at the pump.

That isn't and wasn't the reason for the drop in gas prices, get over it. The upswing in the US dollar and drop in consumption are the reasons. GW making a non binding (Congress) edict had nothing to with a drop in gas prices. I think maybe your blind allegiance to GW may have something to do with your stance.

[mikenold]

That isn't and wasn't the reason for the drop in gas prices, get over it. The upswing in the US dollar and drop in consumption are the reasons. GW making a non binding (Congress) edict had nothing to with a drop in gas prices. I think maybe your blind allegiance to GW may have something to do with your stance.

It is not allegiance to anyone that causes my statements. I know you would rather attribute the drop in price to the upswing in US dollar (I haven't seen this) or drop in consumption (maybe a little), and any rise in price to the Oil Barron's and Bush. But supply and Demand is the reason. In this case the threat of supply was enough to cause the price of a barrel to fall some 18-20% overnight. If the threat were more serious and the congressional moratorium were dropped, the price would go down again significantly. Once we are bringing in the oil, we could see 2.00 a gallon gas again. This is only about a year away, whoops, at least a year and 5 weeks away.

[CSense]

It is not allegiance to anyone that causes my statements. I know you would rather attribute the drop in price to the upswing in US dollar (I haven't seen this) or drop in consumption (maybe a little), and any rise in price to the Oil Barron's and Bush. But supply and Demand is the reason. In this case the threat of supply was enough to cause the price of a barrel to fall some 18-20% overnight. If the threat were more serious and the congressional moratorium were dropped, the price would go down again significantly. Once we are bringing in the oil, we could see 2.00 a gallon gas again. This is only about a year away, whoops, at least a year and 5 weeks away.



From Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aBrEqkCySf1E&refer=japan)
"The dollar weakened to $1.5568 per euro at 11:59 a.m. in New York, from $1.5564 on Aug. 1 when it touched $1.5515, the strongest since June 24. The dollar increased 0.5 percent to 108.23 yen, from 107.71. The euro strengthened 0.6 percent to 168.49 yen, from 167.55. "

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/oil-prices-close-over-4/story.aspx?guid=%7B4083B880-934E-4AB6-86B7-7063E3F79860%7D&dist=msr_1)) -- Crude-oil futures closed with a more than $4-per-barrel gain Wednesday, finding support from the first drop in U.S. gasoline supplies in five weeks and a second-weekly decline in crude inventories.......

......"The expected decline in worldwide petroleum consumption has been the primary factor in driving oil prices down to $122 from an intraday high of $147.27" earlier this month, said Chris Lafakis, an associate economist at Moody's Economy.com.


Again, a non binding edict will not drive prices down. There was no threat becuase everyone knew Congress could only lift the ban, GW said it in his speech. If I told you I was going to kick your ass but was behind bars (jail) you wouldn't think much of it. (analogy) So how does a non serious threat work?

[mikenold]

[/B]


Again, a non binding edict will not drive prices down. There was no threat becuase everyone knew Congress could only lift the ban, GW said it in his speech. If I told you I was going to kick your ass but was behind bars (jail) you wouldn't think much of it. (analogy) So how does a non serious threat work?

Actually there were two bans. The presidential ban and the congressional ban. The president lifted the presidential ban and the congress went home for a holiday. Bushes threat was enough to start the price downward. The congressional ban will go away at the end of September, that is, if the Democrats don't stop that by extending the ban. If the ban goes away at the end of September you will see a greater reduction in price. But, then again, I am sure that there will be another reason stated by the main stream media as to what caused the price to drop not associated with the lifting of the ban. The Olympics, the Buffalo Bills winning a game in Toronto or some such thing! :)

[CSense]

Actually there were two bans. The presidential ban and the congressional ban. The president lifted the presidential ban and the congress went home for a holiday. Bushes threat was enough to start the price downward. The congressional ban will go away at the end of September, that is, if the Democrats don't stop that by extending the ban. If the ban goes away at the end of September you will see a greater reduction in price. But, then again, I am sure that there will be another reason stated by the main stream media as to what caused the price to drop not associated with the lifting of the ban. The Olympics, the Buffalo Bills winning a game in Toronto or some such thing! :)


Ok show me. Other than a die hard Republican running for President (John McLame), I can't find one financial, economic or any other news outlet crediting Bushy with the drop.

So unless you've become the second coming of John Maynard Keynes (which btw, then I'd like to see your phd in economics), I'd like to see some supportive documentation. Oh and please something other than Fox Snews. Bloomberg, Forbes, Rueters, AP anything but Fox

[mikenold]

Ok show me. Other than a die hard Republican running for President (John McLame), I can't find one financial, economic or any other news outlet crediting Bushy with the drop.

So unless you've become the second coming of John Maynard Keynes (which btw, then I'd like to see your phd in economics), I'd like to see some supportive documentation. Oh and please something other than Fox Snews. Bloomberg, Forbes, Rueters, AP anything but Fox

President Bush himself said that it would happen, so did McCain. I think I remember Rush Limbaugh also saying that this would be the result. I was watching an ex oil guy on TV that said the very same thing. I just watched and sure enough, The President drops the moratorium one day and prices dropped the next. Say what you will. I heard all the explanations from CNN and MSNBC and all the rest. It is funny that prices were rising, rising, rising, for quite a while. Predictions were $5.00 a gallon. The President drops the moratorium and the very next day prices start to drop. I don't need CNN or Fox News to interpret what happened for me. I used my common (or uncommon) sense and am here to say that if Congress had lifted the moratorium on offshore drilling today, we would see prices drop even more tomorrow. Of course we will never know because they saw to it that no one would benefit for at least the next 5 weeks, and maybe until September 31. But watch and see, if this moratorium is lifted on the 30th of September, if oil prices do not go down the very next day, then I am wrong and I will admit to it. But if they go up, then surely I have been right all along(ala John Maynard Keynes). We will see.

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by mikenold

It is not allegiance to anyone that causes my statements. I know you would rather attribute the drop in price to the upswing in US dollar (I haven't seen this)

Me either. Another damned shame of our government.

or drop in consumption (maybe a little)

Of course there's a drop in consumption. High gas prices, leading to higher food and necessities prices in a recession leaves one having to skimp on something. Some choose to drive less. Look at the increased attendance at fairs, town activities, lawn fetes etc. Fewer vacationing motorists means less consumption.

and any rise in price to the Oil Barron's and Bush.

God forbid, the Bush family has no ties to those folks.....??? Kiss the ring George.

But supply and Demand is the reason.

If you say so.

In this case the threat of supply was enough to cause the price of a barrel to fall some 18-20% overnight. If the threat were more serious and the congressional moratorium were dropped, the price would go down again significantly.

As stated before, a case of convenient timing to coincide with past history. We all complain about it every year, yet this year it is a miracle of the good guys in government. Vote for us.

Once we are bringing in the oil, we could see 2.00 a gallon gas again. This is only about a year away, whoops, at least a year and 5 weeks away.

The days of $2.00 gas are gone and will never return. Are you suggesting that the new found oil supply will be enough to satisfy the desire for oil in all growing countries as is predicted at a rate of growth as stated over the past years (which is still a bit of an all too convenient event)?

Personally, the oil companies have turned into the world's largest whores. They have made the most ridiculous profits ever seen and it only creates a desire for more.

[Foot Fungus]

Originally Posted by mikenold

President Bush himself said that it would happen, so did McCain. I think I remember Rush Limbaugh also saying that this would be the result. I was watching an ex oil guy on TV that said the very same thing. I just watched and sure enough, The President drops the moratorium one day and prices dropped the next. Say what you will. I heard all the explanations from CNN and MSNBC and all the rest. It is funny that prices were rising, rising, rising, for quite a while. Predictions were $5.00 a gallon. The President drops the moratorium and the very next day prices start to drop. I don't need CNN or Fox News to interpret what happened for me. I used my common (or uncommon) sense and am here to say that if Congress had lifted the moratorium on offshore drilling today, we would see prices drop even more tomorrow. Of course we will never know because they saw to it that no one would benefit for at least the next 5 weeks, and maybe until September 31. But watch and see, if this moratorium is lifted on the 30th of September, if oil prices do not go down the very next day, then I am wrong and I will admit to it. But if they go up, then surely I have been right all along(ala John Maynard Keynes). We will see.

Proverb:3:13: Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

In this case, I hope you acquire happiness, findeth wisdom and getteth undertanding. Rush Limbaugh?

[mikenold]

In this case, I hope you acquire happiness, findeth wisdom and getteth undertanding. Rush Limbaugh?

Soon and very soon! ;)