Disgusting union bought NYS politicians

[GG716]

I don't even know where to start with this. It's truly sickening. Read for yourself.




Union-backed public works law reform will cost jobs upstate, critics say
[/SIZE]By Tom Precious and Samantha Maziarz Christman
Updated: 05/27/08 9:19 AM
ALBANY — A new measure that was supposed to reform an expensive, union-backed law for public works projects was crafted in a way that now appears will block hundreds of non-union companies from bidding on government projects, critics say.
As a result, the recently passed measure will cost jobs, especially upstate, and drive up construction expenses for school districts, municipalities and the state, private industry claims.
“It’s a real can of worms,” said Heather Briccetti of the Business Council of New York State.
“It’s basically going to shut us out of projects. It’s going to put us all out of business and all of our employees, too. It’s just an outrageous situation,” said Tom Ballard, president of Cloverbank Construction, a small Buffalo general contracting firm that bids exclusively on public works projects.
“I can’t believe they put it through. It makes you wonder who our legislators are. If they’re not watching out for what gets through, who is?” he added.
Union leaders say opponents are worried about non-union companies losing more profits from public works projects, companies they say hire lower-skilled workers so they can pay them less.
“You would expect people who want to exploit their workers to have this point of view,” said Denis Hughes, president of the state AFL-CIO.
Business groups are now trying to persuade the Legislature, before its 2008 session ends next month, to either undo or at least postpone what was slipped into the thousands of pages of the state’s budget bill in early April.
The provision, they say, will disproportionately affect upstate construction companies compared with those in New York City, where most are unionized. They warn minority-and women-owned firms, which are generally smaller and non-unionized, will be especially harmed.
At issue is the Wicks Law, which requires state and local governments to use multiple construction contracts for public works projects. The law has been blamed by municipalities for driving up construction costs of projects such as new schools by more than 20 percent.
The changes, which start July 1, raise the threshold for the Wicks union labor requirements from the current $50,000 per project to $500,000 upstate and $3 million in New York City.
But the new law also includes an escape hatch that governments can use to avoid the Wicks requirements: They can enter into a project labor agreement with local unions that all but guarantees union construction workers will be the major, if not only, workers on the jobs.
And there are other poison pills, detractors say. A company wanting to bid on a public project must agree, according to state Labor Department officials, to participate with an apprenticeship program that is offered almost exclusively by unions or unionized companies. Critics say the requirement comes at a time when the state has put a moratorium on new apprenticeship programs, making it impossible for nonunion companies to comply.
“This is public work, and the taxpayers are best served by more competition, and these provisions will arbitrarily restrict who can do public construction. When you limit competition, you raise costs,” said John Faso, a lobbyist for a trade group of non-union construction- related companies and the 2006 GOP gubernatorial nominee.
Faso added that the new Wicks bill includes another troublesome provision: Municipalities can set up prequalification lists of companies that can work on public construction projects. That puts a new political element — allowing mayors to reward allies more easily with lucrative work — into the public works process.
“It simply makes no sense for taxpayers because this is going to increase the cost for public works at school districts and municipalities throughout New York,” said Faso, who represents the New York chapter of Associated Builders and Contractors. He added it also works against the interests of construction workers, 70 percent of whom are not part of a union.
The Paterson administration’s Labor Department declined to comment on the effort to delay the July 1 effective date.
But Christopher Alund, director of the department’s Bureau of Public Work, said project labor agreements have been a part of government construction projects for years. He noted the big Buffalo school building program has one. And he said the agreements with labor have to demonstrate cost savings. For instance, unions entering into a project labor pact often agree to lower wage rates and give up their right to strike to help lower costs.
The Legislature isn’t budging yet to the appeals.
“Where were they a year ago?” said John McArdle, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Joseph L. Bruno.
He said the Senate did not act for a year on the Wicks Law measure that the Assembly and former Gov. Eliot L. Spitzer agreed to, in part, because of concerns that the threshold levels were too low. He said businesses did not previously raise these new complaints.
Hughes, the ALF-CIO president, called the opponents’ attempt to stop the law from kicking in “a blatant attempt” to drive more money to their companies.
“They’re trying to get more in profits and pay less in wages, which is really not good for the economy of the upstate area,” Hughes said.
The critics say they are hoping to persuade Albany to rethink the bill it just passed — an uphill challenge, especially in an election year when lawmakers rely on unions for support.
“The Legislature passed this hidden in 10,000 pages of the budget as part of an overall package. The provisions are far more negative than positive for upstate, and the way it was passed is an embarrassment. It was buried by three men in a room at the eleventh hour. Nobody knew it was there,” said Andrew Rudnick, president of the Buffalo Niagara Partnership.
“Literally, it’s going to put people out of business. That’s the bottom line,” said Tricia Nowak, who owns a Lancaster general contracting firm. She said lawmakers she has talked to insisted they didn’t know the provision was in the budget bill.
tprecious@buffnews.com (tprecious@buffnews.com) and schristman@buffnews.com (schristman@buffnews.com)

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I don't even know where to start with this.


http://www.uhaul.com/

Ask for the "I live in Buffalo but moving south or west discount".... It is a volume thing....

[Save Us]

GG,

can't say I didn't warn ya !

looking for bag to throw up in.

[GG716]

http://www.uhaul.com/

Ask for the "I live in Buffalo but moving south or west discount".... It is a volume thing....

I can just picture truck-pooling being the next big thing to hit NY.
Guess they figured to hurry up an further screw the taxpayers before oil prices go up and we cannot afford to move. So more people are left depending on the government to survive off their handouts. Eventually the government will control everything and will be forced to pay us out of their salaries because everyone left in the state is either unemployed or working for them in some form.

[Comet]

“Where were they a year ago?” said John McArdle, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Joseph L. Bruno.


Yes, we all must be morons. Who could EVER draw a connection between BiG Labor's sweeping win on this piece of crap legislation and the fact that Senator Bruno is under an FBI investigation on his ties to Labor??

Who could possibly think that this could be a conflict of interest??? Surely, our politicians are looking out for the little guy, right?

[Cgoodsp466]

I have never lived in an area with so many gutless underacheivers.Its either you work for the friggin Government or you belong to a union.

[Enough]

This is just another example of government looking right in your eye and flipping you the bird!!!!!!!!!

The sad part is by November this will all be forgotten and each and every one of them will be re-elected!!!!

[WNYresident]

This is just another example of government looking right in your eye and flipping you the bird!!!!!!!!!

The sad part is by November this will all be forgotten and each and every one of them will be re-elected!!!!

Well hopefully are County Legislature and other local governments will voice their disgust in this because it places an abnormal burden on the tax payer.

I wonder when they are going to grow a set of stones and start acting like they represent our community's best interest.

[Enough]

Well hopefully are County Legislature and other local governments will voice their disgust in this because it places an abnormal burden on the tax payer.
Who???? :eek:
You're depending on who? :eek:

C'mon Res, they are part of the problem! They are getting their money from the same unions that the state officials are! Each one will deflect any responsibility and blow this off until it just fades away like everything else!

[WNYresident]

Who???? :eek:
You're depending on who? :eek:

C'mon Res, they are part of the problem! They are getting their money from the same unions that the state officials are! Each one will deflect any responsibility and blow this off until it just fades away like everything else!

I know... For the most part I believe they skim the site and maybe will pick a few good pieces of advice up.

IN some cases some are so pathetic I don't think they even realize how pathetic they are.

[GG716]

IN some cases some are so pathetic I don't think they even realize how pathetic they are.

They are completely incapable of thinking for themselves or representing the taxpayers. They think the taxpayers are the ones who contribute to their campaigns. When in reality most of the taxpayers cannot afford to give away anything to anyone. Especially to some lying scum.

[Save Us]

To the Union responsible for this crap:

On behalf of most independent, free thinking, taxpayer oriented individuals...

YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!!:mad:

[Save Us]

To the crooked dummy politicians with the union hand up your arse...think ventriloquist.


YOU SUCK EVEN MORE....!!!!!

[Judi I]

I have never lived in an area with so many gutless underacheivers.Its either you work for the friggin Government or you belong to a union.


They do offer a third choice, be dependant on the government.

[mikenold]

This is nothing new. Oh, gee, I didn't notice that was part of the Budget that I voted for. It was hidden on page 1,000,000. These Legislators think we are Idiots. If you don't look to see what you are signing into law, then don't sign it until you know what is in it. By the way, this law has been coming for over a year now. They all were well aware of the provisions of the Bill. I have to say, you get what you voted for. Just keep voting the same people in and just keep complaining about what they had "DONE" for you and then vote them back in. This is an opportunity to send a message. Find out which of your Representatives voted for this law and vote for someone else next election. This is the only way to force politicians to listen. They will do ANYTHING to keep their jobs and the money we pay them to screw us. I'm sorry, do I sound bitter!:mad:

[Comet]

This is nothing new. Oh, gee, I didn't notice that was part of the Budget that I voted for. It was hidden on page 1,000,000. These Legislators think we are Idiots. If you don't look to see what you are signing into law, then don't sign it until you know what is in it. By the way, this law has been coming for over a year now. They all were well aware of the provisions of the Bill. I have to say, you get what you voted for. Just keep voting the same people in and just keep complaining about what they had "DONE" for you and then vote them back in. This is an opportunity to send a message. Find out which of your Representatives voted for this law and vote for someone else next election. This is the only way to force politicians to listen. They will do ANYTHING to keep their jobs and the money we pay them to screw us. I'm sorry, do I sound bitter!:mad:

Anyone willing to research and post the yea/nay votes of the following cast of characters?

Crystal Peoples
Robin Schimminger
Antoin Thompson
George Maziarz
Mark Schroeder
Michael Cole
Jim Hayes
Bill Stachowski
Sam Hoyt
Jack Quinn III
Dale Volker
Francine Delmont

I think (but I may have missed someone) this is the complete list of the WNY Delegation: Our NYS Assembly and Senate representatives. Any takers?

[Cgoodsp466]

I know... For the most part I believe they skim the site and maybe will pick a few good pieces of advice up.

IN some cases some are so pathetic I don't think they even realize how pathetic they are.

I have some advice for those scum bags? If you meet me on the street pray to god you can run faster then I can. I wish you bastards nothing but the worst God can send down on you. Oh Good king George Maziarz go screw your self.

[Cgoodsp466]

They do offer a third choice, be dependant on the government.

Any one who works for the Goverment is dependant. They also wear depends. I hate em all.

[Deerhunter]

looks like the Union firms will be getting bombarded with applications. The bill may not pass, but that isn't likely. People should be careful what they wish for, so many want to abolish the Wicks, Taylor, Triborough, without a viable alternatives.

I would recommend finding a realistic alternative before attempting to change something. Again, it must be "realistic", something many forget.

[mikenold]

Anyone willing to research and post the yea/nay votes of the following cast of characters?

Crystal Peoples
Robin Schimminger
Antoin Thompson
George Maziarz
Mark Schroeder
Michael Cole
Jim Hayes
Bill Stachowski
Sam Hoyt
Jack Quinn III
Dale Volker
Francine Delmont

I think (but I may have missed someone) this is the complete list of the WNY Delegation: Our NYS Assembly and Senate representatives. Any takers?

It seems that our legislatures do not want us to know how they vote on anything. I have just spent almost an hour googling to find out how they vote. Nothing. I did find an article from Rochester that warned what would happen if the Legislature went Democratic in the last election.

http://monroerising.com/2008/02/27/things-fall-apart-the-centre-cannot-hold/

Which it did. It is eerie that they called this vote would go through and it did. I only hope that the rest of what is predicted will not happen! This is alarming stuff!:(

[mikenold]

And thats not all folks:

Pay raise predicted for lawmakersMay
22
Legislators will return to the Capitol after the November election to vote themselves – a judges – a pay raise that will take effect in January, one lawmaker predicted.
“We’ll probably do about 3 percent a year, but keep it (base pay) just under $100,000,’’ said the lawmaker, who spoke about the issue only if he wasn’t identified. “Then we’ll jack up the lulus too, ‘’ he said, referring to payments for leadership posts.

Base pay for legislators, $79,500, was last increased in 1999. A 30 percent raise would bring that total to almost $106,000. All 62 senators and 42 Republican members of the Assembly get extra payments that boost the average pay well over $90,000. About two-thirds of the 108 Democrats also get the payments.

If the pay raise is passed after the Nov. 4 elections but before the end of the year it would allow lawmakers to avoid a voter backlash and also have the hikes take effect in January when a new Legislature takes place. By law lawmakers can’t raise their own pay, but can of an incoming Legislature. In practice, of course, almost all of those now holding office will still have their seats in January.

A Senate spokesman said the issue hasn’t come up, while an Assembly spokesman had no comment.

[Mr. Lackawanna]

Like prostitutes, why would you not expect our elected Politicians dance to the strings of the union puppeteers.

[Save Us]

fiddling while Rome burns...maybe people will wake up and realize the State is interested in screwing small business, protecting their own and special interests at the expense of the majority of citizens who pay their f'ing salaries. Its unbelievable.

The state has been screwing us on tolls for how many years..Its a good club if your in it. They screw us with impunity. They have pensions that one could only dream of,,,incidentally only 15% of private sector have that.
they dont have to save a freakin dime.

Excelsior should be replaced with the soviet hammer and sickle, its not a democaracy . This state and area are totally socialist...too bad they did not learn from history ...it doesnt work....go to Cuba then.

[Cgoodsp466]

looks like the Union firms will be getting bombarded with applications. The bill may not pass, but that isn't likely. People should be careful what they wish for, so many want to abolish the Wicks, Taylor, Triborough, without a viable alternatives.

I would recommend finding a realistic alternative before attempting to change something. Again, it must be "realistic", something many forget.

Hey how about this alternative,get rid of all of em,It sounds like they do nothing for the taxpayer,and everything for the unions.
The Taylor law sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TOOLBAGS]

Any one who works for the Goverment is dependant. They also wear depends. I hate em all.
Awww man....I still like you buddy. Don't blame me for doing what I had to do to keep my family here, where I wanted them. Don't blame me for seeing the opportunity in this area (a government job).
I still like you buddy....I hope you can see past my government job....Im so much more than that!! Its just a job bro. I did what i needed to do...my bad.

[mikenold]

Awww man....I still like you buddy. Don't blame me for doing what I had to do to keep my family here, where I wanted them. Don't blame me for seeing the opportunity in this area (a government job).
I still like you buddy....I hope you can see past my government job....Im so much more than that!! Its just a job bro. I did what i needed to do...my bad.

I can see where you're coming from. Who could blame you for having a job that not only supports your family, but also gives you an opportunity to realize a good retirement. I agree that you have a job that many would be happy to have and you are truly blessed. But think about this. What if we all got Government jobs? We would have to work for no pay or get our salaries from another state or the Federal government because the taxes we pay would have to be equal to the salaries we draw plus all the welfare for those who can't get a government job or can't work or wont work. There would be no other jobs because business couldn't afford the taxes it would have to pay to support all us government workers. This area does have one of the largest government payrolls in the country. The cost of doing business in NYS is escalating. Something has to change. This labor agreement is not the answer (unless you are a union company). Every private sector business that leaves takes with it jobs and tax dollars. This puts an even greater burden on the businesses and people who are left. Not to mention those laid off from a failed business that have to either find another job or start to "benefit" from the state. I can say that it will come to a point that even your state job will be at risk when the state finds it can't generate the revenue it needs to pay the people it employs. We have a bunch of short sighted, money grabbing politicians that could care less about you and you family. You will get a lot more sympathy from this message board than from any legislature or state senator. We all need to work together to make the serious changes to the way this state does business with the private sector. Instead of driving business and competition away, we would find that by making this state a partner with the private sector we would realize more jobs, more tax revenue, and greater security for your job as well as mine. I know this was rather long, but nevertheless, these are some of the principles I believe in.

[Mr. Lackawanna]

It seems that our legislatures do not want us to know how they vote on anything. I have just spent almost an hour googling to find out how they vote. Nothing. I did find an article from Rochester that warned what would happen if the Legislature went Democratic in the last election.
(

I think the Bill # is S05716.

I also was unable to find out how our elected officials voted on this bill.
Their must be a record kept someplace but I guess it is not for the public eyes. I'm going to email my State senator and ask him is their a web site that I can see how are elected officials voted on a bill. If I get a reply I will let this board know.

[Cgoodsp466]

Awww man....I still like you buddy. Don't blame me for doing what I had to do to keep my family here, where I wanted them. Don't blame me for seeing the opportunity in this area (a government job).
I still like you buddy....I hope you can see past my government job....Im so much more than that!! Its just a job bro. I did what i needed to do...my bad.


Ok I will re phrase, If you aint a Cop or a fireman,your public service job is not needed. Click It or ticket,what a pile of crap.:D

[Comet]

I think the Bill # is S05716.

I also was unable to find out how our elected officials voted on this bill.
Their must be a record kept someplace but I guess it is not for the public eyes. I'm going to email my State senator and ask him is their a web site that I can see how are elected officials voted on a bill. If I get a reply I will let this board know.

It actually was the Budget Bill that was passed in April... this piece of Union PayBack was folded into the back of the budget and slid through.

Every single assembly and senate member will be able to look their constituents straight in the eye and say "gee, you know we HAD to pass the Budget you know..., my hands were tied, i hated to do it, but you know, the deal got hashed out between Silver and Bruno and Patterson and the state was in such a turmoil you know with Spitzer resigning and everything, but dont worry, this will really save the state money.. because YOU WONT BE ABLE TO PROVE ANYTHING DIFFERENT... "

BS... Albany is a cesspool; your local reps are nothing but "yes" men and women who get tossed bones (checks for all that great local civic and community group feel good crap) and then brag about the bacon they bring back; and meanwhile Downstate swirls toward the abyss and drags us with it...

Peachy.

[TOOLBAGS]

Ok I will re phrase, If you aint a Cop or a fireman,your public service job is not needed. Click It or ticket,what a pile of crap.:D
Much better.....

[citymouse]

I have never lived in an area with so many gutless underacheivers.Its either you work for the friggin Government or you belong to a union.

You make it sound like that's a BAD thing.

[citymouse]

Ok I will re phrase, If you aint a Cop or a fireman,your public service job is not needed. Click It or ticket,what a pile of crap.:D

If I don't plow the streets, If my union's mechanics don't keep those police cars and fire trucks running how will those important police and fire men get down the streets to do their job?

[Cgoodsp466]

You make it sound like that's a BAD thing.

You have no shame,I have never needed anybody to speak for me.Its called free will,dont like the job find another and tell the guy in charge to go screw himself.

[citymouse]

You have no shame,I have never needed anybody to speak for me.Its called free will,dont like the job find another and tell the guy in charge to go screw himself.


I love my job. As far as being ashamed of what I do for a living why would I be embarrassed? I provide a necessary service and people often thank me for just doing my job.
Nice country, this America.

[Cgoodsp466]

I love my job. As far as being ashamed of what I do for a living why would I be embarrassed? I provide a necessary service and people often thank me for just doing my job.
Nice country, this America.

Not ashamed of the Job arent you ashamed of belonging to a Union? I speak for myself gives a person some backbone

[Mr. Lackawanna]

Ok I will re phrase, If you aint a Cop or a fireman,your public service job is not needed. Click It or ticket,what a pile of crap.:D

That is true most of the jobs could be contract out. Think of the cost savings.

[Save Us]

We need to put the public first, much of these services could be consolidated like the school districts, police services etc...Kenmore could be abolished all together. We could also get rid of many elected officials that are essentially doing nothing...

Problem here is that infrastructure is designed to be an economic engine by itself, in so far that the governments's function is to provide jobs for people..
Its trying to tax and spend itself into prosperity...doesn't work in this universe or anyother. Don't believe me try it at home. Then call your folks (albany) for more cash when you can't support yourself.

we can see where that is going>

When I lived in the midwest...we had police, and fire service, also our garbage was picked up regularly...we also sent young people to get educated as engineers, teachers..professionals at less cost than it is done here.
NY like their officials is arrogant,, it thinks it's the only state to be able to provide a high level of service and educate their young people. In some cases we do a good job of education, but......we educate people to be PRODUCTIVE members of other people's society......hello??!!

Graduation rate for Buffalo < 45%,

Guess what my tax bill was about 850 bucks 1 taxing juristiction...not 74, and no mortgage tax.

We have to get a grassroots vote...to get the special interest folks out of office...its the only way.

[Enough]

.....We have to get a grassroots vote...to get the special interest folks out of office...its the only way.
Ain't gonna happen!

No Way!

No How!

Guys like Citymouse are sitting at the union hall right now laughing at us because nobody cares! While a very small minority of us actually discuss issue's that affect us as a community, we don't have the fortitude to do anything collectively. :(

You would have thought the issues around Giambra a couple year's ago would have motivated people. If that didn't do it nothing will!

[Save Us]

Ain't gonna happen!

No Way!

No How!

Guys like Citymouse are sitting at the union hall right now laughing at us because nobody cares! While a very small minority of us actually discuss issue's that affect us as a community, we don't have the fortitude to do anything collectively. :(

You would have thought the issues around Giambra a couple year's ago would have motivated people. If that didn't do it nothing will!

Unfortunately I agree with you. Water seeks its own level so eventually there will be only public folks here..Then Paterson can ask Washington for the money to prop up their non productive socialist economy. Kinda like Cuba and USSR.

[Cgoodsp466]

Unfortunately I agree with you. Water seeks its own level so eventually there will be only public folks here..Then Paterson can ask Washington for the money to prop up their non productive socialist economy. Kinda like Cuba and USSR.

The Public Sector Employee express.1948 Ride little bundist ride.

[SundayNiagara]

I was born and raised in Niagara Falls, a city that was built by unions. Many of you posting here come from union families. The state of NY starting with Rockefeller, taxed all the industry out. How quickly you forget.

[Cgoodsp466]

I was born and raised in Niagara Falls, a city that was built by unions. Many of you posting here come from union families. The state of NY starting with Rockefeller, taxed all the industry out. How quickly you forget.

So whats your friggin point? I am not or ever will be a Union man,I can think for my self.

[SundayNiagara]

So whats your friggin point? I am not or ever will be a Union man,I can think for my self.

If you were born and raised in WNY, chances are more than one person in your family was a union member.

[Save Us]

The point is they they and others have driven this economy to the ground.

They told bethlemhem steel...alright....all the way out of the state. Problem is these days they dont know when to stop choking the golden goose.

Who the hell want's to set up shop ie. start a business with that yoke around your neck....no one...what fortune 500 company is in Buffalo....none.

now the public service folks need to get in line.

You are right many of our forefathers were in unions....time for both to be forgotten and move on to what works for the majority of people

[citymouse]

Not ashamed of the Job arent you ashamed of belonging to a Union? I speak for myself gives a person some backbone

I am proud to be a union member. I have been active in unions in both the public and private sector all my working life. You equate belonging to union with a lack of backbone. I would equate workers not forming one the same. What keeps workers from organizing? Fear of losing their jobs.
Your arguments against unions prove why they work. Individually, if you seek better working conditions or fair wages from your employer he will fire your ass, no matter how much of a backbone you may think you have.
Collectively seeking the same the odds are much better you will keep your job and maybe be successful in your attempts at improving your lot.
The fact that union jobs public and private sector have better pay and benefits proves it. That's why business hates unions and will do anything to keep them out. Fair wages cuts in to their profits.

[citymouse]

So whats your friggin point? I am not or ever will be a Union man,I can think for my self.

Maybe you can. But don't strain yourself. So, if you will never be a union man, what kind of a man would you say you are?
And what is your definition of a "Union Man"?

[GG716]

That's why business hates unions and will do anything to keep them out. Fair wages cuts in to their profits.

The taxpayers are the business owners of the goverment. So keep screwing the taxpayers and the taxpayers will continue leave. Just as the business owners have. When the workers become the sole business owners their view will quickly change.

[Cgoodsp466]

If you were born and raised in WNY, chances are more than one person in your family was a union member.

I was born in PA and my whole family was anti Union. Hey if you were born In the falls its a good chance one of your family members were in the mob right? Those construction union guys play fair right? Ask the poor guy that was laying tile in Wegmans. So take your union and shove it.

[Cgoodsp466]

I am proud to be a union member. I have been active in unions in both the public and private sector all my working life. You equate belonging to union with a lack of backbone. I would equate workers not forming one the same. What keeps workers from organizing? Fear of losing their jobs.
Your arguments against unions prove why they work. Individually, if you seek better working conditions or fair wages from your employer he will fire your ass, no matter how much of a backbone you may think you have.
Collectively seeking the same the odds are much better you will keep your job and maybe be successful in your attempts at improving your lot.
The fact that union jobs public and private sector have better pay and benefits proves it. That's why business hates unions and will do anything to keep them out. Fair wages cuts in to their profits.

If you have talent and bring something to the party you wont get fired,threaten to leave and you alwys get what you want. Now if you have no talent well I guess you need some one to protect you. Here is you you spell unions. EXTORTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is extortion?

Extortion in most states is defined as blackmail; that is, obtaining property through the use of either oral or written threats. The threats can be of physical harm, or harm to one's reputation, livelihood, marriage etc.

In some states extortion has only occurred when money or property has actually changed hands as a result of the threat. In other states, just the threat is enough to constitute extortion . Sure does fit doesent it.

[Cgoodsp466]

Maybe you can. But don't strain yourself. So, if you will never be a union man, what kind of a man would you say you are?
And what is your definition of a "Union Man"?
A union man is someone who has never started a business,A union man does not understand the word profit margin. A union man always wants and never gives. A public sector union man thinks the taxpayer owes him. What it all boils down to is if you cant join a union. I work on commission,something a union guy wouldnt have the nuts to do. When you go out and build something let me know.

[Save Us]

The real problem is not these folks that try to get as much as they can, that's only natural, the problem is that they, their union bosses, and the politicians resist measures that would save the taxpayers money. its not in their mindset...they honestly can't help it. They all forget who pays their salaries.....us. They laugh because we are impotent,,and yet they work for us.

That's why we have to vote their political bosses out of office.

[Save Us]

ps.

I work 12-14 hours a day,,,and I don't think anybody owes me a living.

[Cgoodsp466]

The real problem is not these folks that try to get as much as they can, that's only natural, the problem is that they, their union bosses, and the politicians resist measures that would save the taxpayers money. its not in their mindset...they honestly can't help it. They all forget who pays their salaries.....us. They laugh because we are impotent,,and yet they work for us.

That's why we have to vote their political bosses out of office.


Its a little tough when the Government is the # 1 employeer in the region.

[Enough]

The real problem is not these folks that try to get as much as they can, that's only natural, the problem is that they, their union bosses, and the politicians resist measures that would save the taxpayers money. its not in their mindset...they honestly can't help it. They all forget who pays their salaries.....us. They laugh because we are impotent,,and yet they work for us.

That's why we have to vote their political bosses out of office.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c98/warriorj13/Random%20Images/wheresmymoney.jpg

Government Attitude

[Cgoodsp466]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c98/warriorj13/Random%20Images/wheresmymoney.jpg

Government Attitude


Right Friggin on. Bravo.

[Save Us]

Its a little tough when the Government is the # 1 employeer in the region.


Yeah its a great recipe for growth and prosperty isn't that right all you folks out there in SUWNY land

[Cgoodsp466]

Yeah its a great recipe for growth and prosperty isn't that right all you folks out there in SUWNY land


Most of the clowns on this message board owe their soul to the comapny store.

[GG716]

Most of the clowns on this message board owe their soul to the comapny store.

How many hold stock in U-Haul?

[Smiley]

Most of the clowns Owe their soul to the company store? Are you one of the clowns that owe his soul to the company store or don't you? Even though you claim to have the ability to pack it up and work somewhere else, you're still here. Is it because you like to complain or is it that you owe to much to the company store? ;) There are states that people can move to where the taxes are less and also, they are right to work states, so you don't have to worry about unions.

Guys, one thing to keep in mind with the unions.... even though they do work with the employers regarding cost savings measures, their "clients," the ones paying them for their services, are their members. IMHO, these are the people they will work for and make adjustments. They do make consessions at the table and between contract expirations, but they have their clients best interests in mind. They make decissions based on numerous factors as they deal with everything on the table. So, I do agree with you that they don't have the taxpayers interests in mind. They may have to consider what the public may or may not do if they agree with something, but IMO, that's it.

[Comet]

So, I do agree with you that they don't have the taxpayers interests in mind]

And this very fact is why the politicians who take Union Donations and owe their, seats, power and paychecks to the Unions are working against the Taxpayers. This is the proof of the need for drastic campaign financing reform. Once a politician is doing Union Bidding and passing laws to protect and empower unions the Taxpayers have lost. Simple.

[BorderBob]

And this very fact is why the politicians who take Union Donations and owe their, seats, power and paychecks to the Unions are working against the Taxpayers. This is the proof of the need for drastic campaign financing reform. Once a politician is doing Union Bidding and passing laws to protect and empower unions the Taxpayers have lost. Simple.

And this very fact is why the politicians who take Corporate Donations and owe their, seats, power and paychecks to the Corporations are working against the Taxpayers. This is the proof of the need for drastic campaign financing reform. Once a politician is doing Corporate Bidding and passing laws to protect and empower corporations the Taxpayers have lost. Simple.


b.b.

[Cgoodsp466]

Most of the clowns Owe their soul to the company store? Are you one of the clowns that owe his soul to the company store or don't you? Even though you claim to have the ability to pack it up and work somewhere else, you're still here. Is it because you like to complain or is it that you owe to much to the company store? ;) There are states that people can move to where the taxes are less and also, they are right to work states, so you don't have to worry about unions.

Guys, one thing to keep in mind with the unions.... even though they do work with the employers regarding cost savings measures, their "clients," the ones paying them for their services, are their members. IMHO, these are the people they will work for and make adjustments. They do make consessions at the table and between contract expirations, but they have their clients best interests in mind. They make decissions based on numerous factors as they deal with everything on the table. So, I do agree with you that they don't have the taxpayers interests in mind. They may have to consider what the public may or may not do if they agree with something, but IMO, that's it.


Hey Clarbell,when I say company store I mean that the Government is the largest employer in WNY.These clowns vote and they aint going to vote to cut off their lifeline. I have built up a business In Upstate and Pennsylvania.So untill I retire I am stuck in this hell hole.Pa is getting lessons from NY.Belive me Pittsburg is a rats nest of public sector folks too. So I will stay in this pit and continue the good fight against the enemy,AKA unions and public sector clowns. Oh have I told you lately that Politicians suck and the only good ones are in the cemetery.

[citymouse]

A union man is someone who has never started a business,A union man does not understand the word profit margin. A union man always wants and never gives. A public sector union man thinks the taxpayer owes him. What it all boils down to is if you cant join a union. I work on commission,something a union guy wouldnt have the nuts to do. When you go out and build something let me know. Some not only have the nuts, they have the bolts too. Auto assembly (UAW) work on, While not technically commission, piece work. I did it myself years ago, did pretty well too.
Your definition is your opinion. Many union people I work with at the city have their own businesses. Most union guys give a days work for a days pay. I am a public sector union man and the taxpayer does owe me. I owe him too.
I owe him plowed and clean streets. He owes me compensation for it. I don't have job where I build things, but I have built many things outside of work. But aside from me the iron workers are union and they are building things all the time. So do the rest of the building trades. It must have been lost on you why they call them the "building trades". A Mensa candidate your not.
I understand profit margin far better than you may think. You assume a lot. To bad your wrong in your assumptions.

[citymouse]

The taxpayers are the business owners of the goverment. So keep screwing the taxpayers and the taxpayers will continue leave. Just as the business owners have. When the workers become the sole business owners their view will quickly change.


I don't get this whole "screwing the taxpayer" thing. How is going to work every day and getting a pay check every two weeks screwing the taxpayer? It's not like I just get a check for nothing.
I am a taxpayer too. Am I screwing myself? Wouldn't that be masturbation? Your saying I get paid to masturbate?
I take that as an insult. Or are you just jealous because you don't get compensated for being a jerk off?
I must say that if you really think we are sitting around playing with ourselves rather than plowing snow or picking up trash let me enlighten you. It's not true.

[Enough]

I don't get this whole "screwing the taxpayer" thing. How is going to work every day and getting a pay check every two weeks screwing the taxpayer? It's not like I just get a check for nothing.
I am a taxpayer too. Am I screwing myself? Wouldn't that be masturbation? Your saying I get paid to masturbate?
I take that as an insult. Or are you just jealous because you don't get compensated for being a jerk off?
I must say that if you really think we are sitting around playing with ourselves rather than plowing snow or picking up trash let me enlighten you. It's not true.
I think the issue at hand is you get paid like one of Spitzers high priced call-girls but you should be getting paid like a low-class street walker.

[citymouse]

If you have talent and bring something to the party you wont get fired,threaten to leave and you alwys get what you want. Now if you have no talent well I guess you need some one to protect you. Here is you you spell unions. EXTORTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is extortion?

Extortion in most states is defined as blackmail; that is, obtaining property through the use of either oral or written threats. The threats can be of physical harm, or harm to one's reputation, livelihood, marriage etc.

In some states extortion has only occurred when money or property has actually changed hands as a result of the threat. In other states, just the threat is enough to constitute extortion . Sure does fit doesent it.
Not at all.
When workers band together to bargain collectively for fair treatment and wages. That's what union is all about. The employer holds all the cards. If he has a petty boss that dosen't like you because you kicked his ass in third grade he can fire you and you can't do anything about it. If you have a contract that says he has to have a work related reason you might have a chance to keep your job.
You give a part of your life to the company, at least a third of your day five days a week. You should be paid fairly for it.
If the company is making record profits and every thing is going up in price you should be able to share in the largess of your employer. He wouldn't have it if you didn't make it for him.

And there are many talented and skilled people that are union members, particularly in the, ,I'll say it slow for you, "B U I L D I N G T R A D E S".

[Enough]

... If the company is making record profits and every thing is going up in price you should be able to share in the largess of your employer. He wouldn't have it if you didn't make it for him.
Whether or not the company is making record profits an employee should have the right to go elsewhere and earn a wage he is really worth.

You do have that right but don't go elsewhere, why not?

Because you already know you are overpaid and that there's no way in hell you could go ANYWHERE else and make what you do today!

[citymouse]

I think the issue at hand is you get paid like one of Spitzers high priced call-girls but you should be getting paid like a low-class street walker.

Poor attempt at humor. Let's have a reality check. Spitzers call girl got fifty thousand an hour. We get Thirty one thousand a year.
I would go under water and screw fish for fifty thousand an hour and so would you.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Poor attempt at humor. Let's have a reality check. Spitzers call girl got fifty thousand an hour. We get Thirty one thousand a year.
I would go under water and screw fish for fifty thousand an hour and so would you.

Would that be a blow fish? :D

[Enough]

Poor attempt at humor. Let's have a reality check. Spitzers call girl got fifty thousand an hour. We get Thirty one thousand a year.
I would go under water and screw fish for fifty thousand an hour and so would you.

No humor intended! :D :D

When someone criticizes you people you immediately talk about the annual salary but want us not to remember the “entire benefit package” you have. Let’s talk about the Pay along with the Time Off, Holiday Pay, Benefit Package and the Pension? :confused: :confused:

[citymouse]

You do have that right but don't go elsewhere, why not?

Because you already know you are overpaid and that there's no way in hell you could go ANYWHERE else and make what you do today!


If you ask a question and then give an answer it is no longer a question. I am not sure if that applies if your answer is wrong. So I will ignore your attempt at flippancy.
If your asking me personally why I never left Buffalo .Guess I could tell you but it's really none of your business. Oh, what the hell.
Truth be told I was married young and had a good job in private industry, Had children and bought a house. The job went belly up and I took a civil service job temporarily. I was offered a job in another industry six hundred miles from here but at the time, the Carter Years, Mortgage rates were up around 13%. I was paying 7%.
So rather than try to sell my house and pay that much more for another one, uproot my children and leave all my relatives, we decided to stay.
As I had my children in Catholic schools i took another job (actually was called back to my old one) and I worked two jobs for twenty years.
They are grown now, my house is paid for and I am back to one job. I chose to stay at the one that never layed me off (duh).
Now I am fifty five. If I wanted to change careers who would hire me.
Everybody's circumstances are different. So when you make general assumptions you sound like an ass.

[citymouse]

No humor intended! :D :D

When someone criticizes you people you immediately talk about the annual salary but want us not to remember the “entire benefit package” you have. Let’s talk about the Pay along with the Time Off, Holiday Pay, Benefit Package and the Pension? :confused: :confused:

Fine talk all you want. We haven't had a contract in seven years. It seems maybe like the taxpayer is screwing us.

[citymouse]

Would that be a blow fish? :D
No. According to a former chief executive, oral activity does not constitue a sexual act.

[Enough]

If you ask a question and then give an answer it is no longer a question. I am not sure if that applies if your answer is wrong. So I will ignore your attempt at flippancy.
If your asking me personally why I never left Buffalo .Guess I could tell you but it's really none of your business. Oh, what the hell.
Truth be told I was married young and had a good job in private industry, Had children and bought a house. The job went belly up and I took a civil service job temporarily. I was offered a job in another industry six hundred miles from here but at the time, the Carter Years, Mortgage rates were up around 13%. I was paying 7%.
So rather than try to sell my house and pay that much more for another one, uproot my children and leave all my relatives, we decided to stay.
As I had my children in Catholic schools i took another job (actually was called back to my old one) and I worked two jobs for twenty years.
They are grown now, my house is paid for and I am back to one job. I chose to stay at the one that never layed me off (duh).
Now I am fifty five. If I wanted to change careers who would hire me.
Everybody's circumstances are different. So when you make general assumptions you sound like an ass.
I didn't ask for a life story, I asked why you insist on staying at a job where you don't feel you are paid what you're worth? If my employer treated me with broken promises like your's does I would have been gone long ago.

Once again, we know the answer, even though you're employer breaks promises to you, you still know it's the best deal you got!

[Enough]

Fine talk all you want. We haven't had a contract in seven years. It seems maybe like the taxpayer is screwing us.
I haven't had a contract since I was a TEAMSTER.

Ironically, I haven't been laid off or lost a job since I was a TEAMSTER either???

I've doubled my salary since my last year as a TEAMSTER too! :confused:

[Cgoodsp466]

Some not only have the nuts, they have the bolts too. Auto assembly (UAW) work on, While not technically commission, piece work. I did it myself years ago, did pretty well too.
Your definition is your opinion. Many union people I work with at the city have their own businesses. Most union guys give a days work for a days pay. I am a public sector union man and the taxpayer does owe me. I owe him too.
I owe him plowed and clean streets. He owes me compensation for it. I don't have job where I build things, but I have built many things outside of work. But aside from me the iron workers are union and they are building things all the time. So do the rest of the building trades. It must have been lost on you why they call them the "building trades". A Mensa candidate your not.
I understand profit margin far better than you may think. You assume a lot. To bad your wrong in your assumptions.

I am at a lose for words,this is the most assinine reply to the Union Non Union debate I have ever read. Please stay in the public sector,I dont want you having to much responsibility.

[citymouse]

I didn't ask for a life story, I asked why you insist on staying at a job where you don't feel you are paid what you're worth? If my employer treated me with broken promises like your's does I would have been gone long ago.

Once again, we know the answer, even though you're employer breaks promises to you, you still know it's the best deal you got!

No, you still assume too much. You asked a question the question was why do you stay where you are. I assumed you really wanted to know. I didn't realize you where only asking so you could answer with a general assumption that slams anyone in public service.
Simply put, I stay because I like what I do. I like the guys I work with. I have a only few years to go and, While I could operate heavy equipment just about anywhere in the world, it isn't worth the hassle to make a change. especially at my age. My employer has not treated me with broken promises, he has promised me nothing so there are is nothing to break.
But you are right. Considering what I have told you, it is the best deal for my circumstances. I'd be a fool to leave. I wish everybody was as happy as me with my lot. I detect a lot of sour grapes from types like you because your not.
If you were, you wouldn't spend your time bitching about people like me. I'm small time, Jacko, and what I do is work for a living. It just happens to be I am employed by the public. There are a lot of crooked things, negative things about goverment and politicians as well as developers tied in with them.
At least what I do is above board and I give as good, if not better, as I get. But do I feel we are being treated fairly by the administration? No, but they come and go. The people I really work for, the citizens of Buffalo, for the most part appreciate what I do for them and I appreciate that they pay me to do it.
All the venom and stupid assumptions you make mean nothing in the big picture of that arrangement.

[citymouse]

I haven't had a contract since I was a TEAMSTER.

Ironically, I haven't been laid off or lost a job since I was a TEAMSTER either???

I've doubled my salary since my last year as a TEAMSTER too! :confused:

Well aren't you special!
Think how much more you'd make if you spent more time making it than hanging around here worrying about the likes of me.
I think it's great that you haven't been laid off. That probably has a lot to do with you being content where ever it is your employed. Nothing like being secure and successful in what you do.
That's part of why I stay where I am. Maybe now your beginning to understand.

[citymouse]

I am at a lose for words,this is the most assinine reply to the Union Non Union debate I have ever read. Please stay in the public sector,I dont want you having to much responsibility.

I am sorry if that answer is over your head. You made a statement and I replied to it. It's unfortunate that B.B. rolling around in that box car on your shoulders didn't understand it.

[GG716]

I don't get this whole "screwing the taxpayer" thing. How is going to work every day and getting a pay check every two weeks screwing the taxpayer? It's not like I just get a check for nothing.
I am a taxpayer too. Am I screwing myself? Wouldn't that be masturbation? Your saying I get paid to masturbate?
I take that as an insult. Or are you just jealous because you don't get compensated for being a jerk off?
I must say that if you really think we are sitting around playing with ourselves rather than plowing snow or picking up trash let me enlighten you. It's not true.

The taxpayers are being screwed. Government is wasting our money. Government employees are part of the government. Neither cares about the taxpayers nor does anything to lower taxes. We ourselves, allow us to get screwed up the ass by continuing to stay in this area. Government would be left to masturbate if everyone continues to leave. As the only ones left would be government and it's employees as well as a few worn out beat down abused sluts.
Why should we be forced to pay for a high priced diseased hookers and have to negotiate the price through union pimps. When we could be using cheep whores & a condom for protection, as the end result will be the same.
Sad when we have to start comparing government to hookers so they understand.

[GG716]

I think the issue at hand is you get paid like one of Spitzers high priced call-girls but you should be getting paid like a low-class street walker.
:D nice

[Enough]

No, you still assume too much. You asked a question the question was why do you stay where you are. I assumed you really wanted to know. I didn't realize you where only asking so you could answer with a general assumption that slams anyone in public service.
Simply put, I stay because I like what I do. I like the guys I work with. I have a only few years to go and, While I could operate heavy equipment just about anywhere in the world, it isn't worth the hassle to make a change. especially at my age. My employer has not treated me with broken promises, he has promised me nothing so there are is nothing to break.
But you are right. Considering what I have told you, it is the best deal for my circumstances. I'd be a fool to leave. I wish everybody was as happy as me with my lot. I detect a lot of sour grapes from types like you because your not.
If you were, you wouldn't spend your time bitching about people like me. I'm small time, Jacko, and what I do is work for a living. It just happens to be I am employed by the public. There are a lot of crooked things, negative things about goverment and politicians as well as developers tied in with them.
At least what I do is above board and I give as good, if not better, as I get. But do I feel we are being treated fairly by the administration? No, but they come and go. The people I really work for, the citizens of Buffalo, for the most part appreciate what I do for them and I appreciate that they pay me to do it.
All the venom and stupid assumptions you make mean nothing in the big picture of that arrangement.
Geez CM, I don't even know where to start....

1st of all Driving a Dump Truck with a wing plow or a 90hp backhoe is hardly a Heavy Equipment Operator and I'm pretty sure you couldn't go to work tomorrow making the same benefit package you do today, so skip the "I could go anywhere in the world" speech.

2nd, you speak of the crooked things between government, politicians and developers but you fail to mention that it is public sector unions that are the number one contributors to political campaigns. I’m sure you saw the message I posted proving as such. So don’t try to come off as the humble “I’m just a regular Joe trying to make a living” person you want everyone to believe. What your union does is NOT as above board as you want people to believe…..

Regarding your, “At least I give as good, if not better, as I get”. That is totally open to opinion….. But to say you don’t feel you are being treated fairly by the administration is the exact reason we are having this discussion.. Don’t feel you’re being treated fairly? LEAVE! Why do you stay? Go somewhere you feel you are getting a better deal. Nobody is making you stay with your employer!

[Enough]

Well aren't you special!
Think how much more you'd make if you spent more time making it than hanging around here worrying about the likes of me.
I think it's great that you haven't been laid off. That probably has a lot to do with you being content where ever it is your employed. Nothing like being secure and successful in what you do.
That's part of why I stay where I am. Maybe now your beginning to understand.
Not special at all.....

Not being laid off has nothing to do with being content. One thing about the company I work with today (notice I didn't say for) is that EVERYONE I work with focuses on being successful. The company pays close attention to the fiber of the people they hire. They promote from within and offer promotions and advancements to those who deserve it. We don't kill ourselves at work but we all take our jobs seriously. We have a goal to outperform our competition every day! Something I really don’t believe you guys understand.

In contrast, the union company I worked for was so bogged down with an "us vs. them" attitude on both sides. Nobody worked for the growth or success of the company. We even had one person who tried to file a grievance because the pop in the pop machine wasn't cold enough!?!?

By the way, to be successful you are NEVER content! You constantly look for a way to better yourself!

[GG716]

Not at all.
When workers band together to bargain collectively for fair treatment and wages. That's what union is all about.
Fair to who? The taxpayers?

The employer holds all the cards. If he has a petty boss that dosen't like you because you kicked his ass in third grade he can fire you and you can't do anything about it.
Guess what, your not in 3rd grade anymore. Time to grow up.
You know damn well a government employee cannot be fired because you boss just doesn’t like you.
I find is amusing how government employees say stupid things like this. When questioned about getting rid of the useless employees who give you all a bad name you say it's so hard to get rid of them. Which is it, they like working with piss poor employees, they are a piss poor employee themselves or their now reaching for excuses?

You give a part of your life to the company, at least a third of your day five days a week. You should be paid fairly for it.
What do you consider fair compensation?
Is it fair that the taxpayers must pay what you deem fair?

If the company is making record profits and every thing is going up in price you should be able to share in the largess of your employer. He wouldn't have it if you didn't make it for him.
Business owner’s lives revolve around their company. So fair would be paying them 24/7. The business others are the ones who create the profits. A lot of these companies offer stock to their employees, which in turn is a share in the company’s profits. An incentive to care more about the company succeeding. The lower workers on the chain care about their jobs not the company itself, they take advantage of everything they can get away with.
The smaller the company the more influence and effect they have over the profits hence the reason why smaller business tend to care more about the individual employee.


And there are many talented and skilled people that are union members, particularly in the, ,I'll say it slow for you, "B U I L D I N G T R A D E S".
Yes there are plenty of skilled people involved in building trades who are unions members. Are non-union members less skilled?

[citymouse]

Geez CM, I don't even know where to start....

1st of all Driving a Dump Truck with a wing plow or a 90hp backhoe is hardly a Heavy Equipment Operator and I'm pretty sure you couldn't go to work tomorrow making the same benefit package you do today, so skip the "I could go anywhere in the world" speech.

2nd, you speak of the crooked things between government, politicians and developers but you fail to mention that it is public sector unions that are the number one contributors to political campaigns. I’m sure you saw the message I posted proving as such. So don’t try to come off as the humble “I’m just a regular Joe trying to make a living” person you want everyone to believe. What your union does is NOT as above board as you want people to believe…..

Regarding your, “At least I give as good, if not better, as I get”. That is totally open to opinion….. But to say you don’t feel you are being treated fairly by the administration is the exact reason we are having this discussion.. Don’t feel you’re being treated fairly? LEAVE! Why do you stay? Go somewhere you feel you are getting a better deal. Nobody is making you stay with your employer!


Wow!
You just don't get it do you? Even though we don't get treated fairly I ain't leaving. It's to late in my life for that.
And I am glad you think you know what kind of equipment I am qualified to drive. But you seem to know everything don't you?
Your not the first "smartest guy in the room" to come on this MB and probably won't be the last.
Your whole argument is based on your opinion. As the late Jimmy Griffin once said " Your entitled to your opinion even if it is wrong".
I really don't know what my international does as far as politics go. Or locally for that matter so you can list anything you want. Most of us don't know or care. We got our jobs off civil service lists we took and most of us aren't political. That's one of the reasons we are an after thought by the politicians when it comes to any raises.
As far as your last comment, you don't know my wife.

[GG716]

Fine talk all you want. We haven't had a contract in seven years. It seems maybe like the taxpayer is screwing us.

Blame your union pimp not us. We don't feel your under compensated cheep hookers.

[GG716]

Once again, we know the answer, even though you're employer breaks promises to you, you still know it's the best deal you got!

Exactly, take the best deal and be happy with it just like everyone else.

[SundayNiagara]

citymouse: All these anti-union people would be happy as a pig in s**t if they had your job. I've never seen so much envy and jealousy in my life.

[citymouse]

Not at all.
When workers band together to bargain collectively for fair treatment and wages. That's what union is all about.
Fair to who? The taxpayers?

The employer holds all the cards. If he has a petty boss that dosen't like you because you kicked his ass in third grade he can fire you and you can't do anything about it.
Guess what, your not in 3rd grade anymore. Time to grow up.
You know damn well a government employee cannot be fired because you boss just doesn’t like you.
I find is amusing how government employees say stupid things like this. When questioned about getting rid of the useless employees who give you all a bad name you say it's so hard to get rid of them. Which is it, they like working with piss poor employees, they are a piss poor employee themselves or their now reaching for excuses?

You give a part of your life to the company, at least a third of your day five days a week. You should be paid fairly for it.
What do you consider fair compensation?
Is it fair that the taxpayers must pay what you deem fair?

If the company is making record profits and every thing is going up in price you should be able to share in the largess of your employer. He wouldn't have it if you didn't make it for him.
Business owner’s lives revolve around their company. So fair would be paying them 24/7. The business others are the ones who create the profits. A lot of these companies offer stock to their employees, which in turn is a share in the company’s profits. An incentive to care more about the company succeeding. The lower workers on the chain care about their jobs not the company itself, they take advantage of everything they can get away with.
The smaller the company the more influence and effect they have over the profits hence the reason why smaller business tend to care more about the individual employee.


And there are many talented and skilled people that are union members, particularly in the, ,I'll say it slow for you, "B U I L D I N G T R A D E S".
Yes there are plenty of skilled people involved in building trades who are unions members. Are non-union members less skilled?

Let my try to explain it for you.
I consider fair compensation as keeping pace with the increasing costs of living. Since I am performing the service for the taxpayer then yes, it is the taxpayer who must pay what is deemed fair. Not particularly by me, but by the economy in general.
The 3rd grade comment that you turned on me is particularly relevant in the public sector. If we did not have union, contractual protection every time an administration came in they could fire whoever they chose and put their cronies in, just like they do in the public sector non agreement, nonunion positions now. It wouldn't matter if they were qualified or not. That's politics. You think, in your opinion and for whatever vindictive reason you have, that the work force is piss poor now, you have no idea how it would be if that were to happen.
You just can't seem to realize how wrong you are about all this. I am getting sick of trying to explain it to you as well. You think, as smart as you think you are you would have picked up on the truth of the situation but you seem unable to.
No sense in me trying to get through. You seem more intent on having the last word than understanding the truth of the matter.

[Enough]

citymouse: All these anti-union people would be happy as a pig in s**t if they had your job. I've never seen so much envy and jealousy in my life.
Envy and jealousy????

More like pity. I hope I never paint myself into a position in life that I have to hope to god my job lasts a few more years to support my family because I'm too old to go anywhere else!

If it helps you sleep better at night keep thinking that way....... :rolleyes:

[citymouse]

Exactly, take the best deal and be happy with it just like everyone else.

I am pretty happy with it. Your the one with the chip on his shoulder.

[citymouse]

Envy and jealousy????

More like pity. I hope I never paint myself into a position in life that I have to hope to god my job lasts a few more years to support my family because I'm too old to go anywhere else!


See that's where he touched a nerve with that comment> unlike you I don't have to hope my job will last a few more years until I retire. I know it will.

If it helps you sleep better at night keep thinking that way....... :rolleyes:

Ah, but you will get old my friend. And you will be hoping that your job will last a few more years.
I am really not too concerned. I am pretty sure my job isn't going away. If it does I could retire now anyway. I just don't want to yet.I'm having too much fun.
Your the one in need of pity. Life never works out like you think. Your fooling yourself if you think it will. In my case it worked out better than I could have hoped.
It probably won't for you. Your just too miserable, too mean spirited. I do feel sorry for your family if you have one. Life is too short to have someone with your attitude around.

[GG716]

Simply put, I stay because I like what I do. I like the guys I work with. I have a only few years to go and, While I could operate heavy equipment just about anywhere in the world, it isn't worth the hassle to make a change. especially at my age.

Neither was it then. You currently have the best you can get in life. Be happy with that. Be happy once you were put out of a job, you are able to find another one. Many people are not as lucky.

My employer has not treated me with broken promises, he has promised me nothing so there are is nothing to break.
And nothing to be upset over.

But you are right. Considering what I have told you, it is the best deal for my circumstances. I'd be a fool to leave. I wish everybody was as happy as me with my lot. I detect a lot of sour grapes from types like you because your not.
Tell all your goverment union biddies to be just as happy and
contend as yourself. Accept the fact they are even more lucky having government job security. The rest of the world could crumble, people unemployed, everyone living in poverty. Working for minimum wage, no health insurance and these government union people would still bitch and want more.



If you were, you wouldn't spend your time bitching about people like me. I'm small time, Jacko, and what I do is work for a living. It just happens to be I am employed by the public. There are a lot of crooked things, negative things about goverment and politicians as well as developers tied in with them.
The unions are supporting these corrupt politicians and are one of the main contributing factors that get these people elected into power. Once these people get into power they kick back the unions at the taxpayers expence.

At least what I do is above board and I give as good, if not better, as I get. But do I feel we are being treated fairly by the administration? No, but they come and go.
And unfortunately for the government unions it's and off year.
Previous administrations catered to the government workers so they believe they were treated fair. When in reality it was well beyond fair. We are now simply trying to go back to it being fair and close the unions off from the ability of taking advantage of people so long the people actually start believing that it is fair based above fair is all they know.

[GG716]

citymouse: All these anti-union people would be happy as a pig in s**t if they had your job. I've never seen so much envy and jealousy in my life.

Hell no. I'd rather be a self made man. I could easily work for the government I CHOOSE not to be part of the problem, the reason why this area is doing down hill at an uncontrolled pace. I'd rather bring the area up then by like you and milk it dry.
And you know what, people can be successful by not working for the government. It takes a lot more effort than having your ass handed to you but it's much more rewarding, much more pride. A sense of accomplishment and knowing I did not screw anyone over in the process.
My income is directly related to what my customers are willing to pay for what I have to offer.
The government could care less what the people are willing to pay for what they offer and it's proven their is little value in what they offer as people have flocked and will continue to leave the area.

[GG716]

Let my try to explain it for you.
I consider fair compensation as keeping pace with the increasing costs of living.
Ok as long as thats what you concider fair and not like everyone else who demands more than ONLY cost of living raises.

Since I am performing the service for the taxpayer then yes, it is the taxpayer who must pay what is deemed fair. Not particularly by me, but by the economy in general.
Taxes/spending has gotten out of hand. The tax base is shrinking. Because taxes are spread across to everyone (for the most part) and more people are leaving. The remaining people much pick up more of the share. I feel that this is wrong the government wants to provide more services for less people. Which is not right. I also believe the governed should not eliminate or to far beyond repair of necessary services. We demand the basic infrastructure as well as the ability to feel safe in our neighborhoods and a good education for our children. Now without cutting that as well as keeping up with mandates placed upon us from above.
How do we keep taxes from going up further? We encourage people to move to the area and set up shop. A true chicken and the egg scenario.
We cut unnecessary government waste and stop handing out raises beyond what is NOW considered fair.
I fully believe the government is to blame for all of this. Unfortunately Like I have always said the government is stupid. They have given into the unions demands in the past not thinking about how pensions, healthcare, etc... would come to haunt us today. As well as overly compensating themselves as well.
The government wastes money on poor purchasing practices usually going to the people who have supported them. The government wastes money by not maintaining their existing equipment, while at the same time expecting us to buy new equipment. The government does not have measures in place to prevent the few bad employees from stealing gas, improper time cards, overtime abuse, etc...
These are all MAJOR problems. The unions in no way hold 100% of the blame but they are a major factor. Both in terms of trying to get more than their fare share of the tax money as well as doing nothing to stop the abuse and improper practices by the government. Everything the government tries to do to cut costs the unions expect something because an employee is effected. Even though the employees themselves would benefit from the changes the government wants to implement. This is why I have to much hate for the union because of their greed and constant demands for more when in reality everyone would have more if they just shut up and be happy they have a well above average job in relation to others in the area economically. Yeah other municipalities can afford to pay more, but we cannot. If it’s the money they are about then go work for them. Otherwise be happy with what you have realize your better off than most people under this government and join us trying to change government for the better. The people on the inside see this waste and abuse every single day we do not. They know of it, they see it and can play a major role in changing it. Unfortunately this would result in less possibility of abuse by the workers, more accountability as well. But if your truly a good hard honest worker why should you be afraid?
Unions are like preservations to some extent preventing/hindering anything good from happening because they always have to have their say.

The 3rd grade comment that you turned on me is particularly relevant in the public sector. If we did not have union, contractual protection every time an administration came in they could fire whoever they chose and put their cronies in, just like they do in the public sector non agreement, nonunion positions now. It wouldn't matter if they were qualified or not. That's politics.
Would is be wise to have requirements for a given position?
Qualifications or some sorts who ever that was doing the hiring would have to follow. What is stopping someone politically connected now from applying for a government job and being hired if they meet the qualifications? Does the union do the hiring?

You think, in your opinion and for whatever vindictive reason you have, that the work force is piss poor now, you have no idea how it would be if that were to happen.
I never said all the workers are piss poor.
I do believe there is an unacceptable level of abuse and protection for those who abuse their position. After all it's only a job. This goes for all levels over government Political and civil service alike.

You just can't seem to realize how wrong you are about all this. I am getting sick of trying to explain it to you as well. You think, as smart as you think you are you would have picked up on the truth of the situation but you seem unable to.
No sense in me trying to get through. You seem more intent on having the last word than understanding the truth of the matter.
The truth is government screws the taxpayers. they feel they are being raped in the ass and no one involved in the government has any desire whatsoever to change this fact. Fortunate that unfortunately it has gotten so bad that the people are waking up the government is being exposed for what it is and there is a real desire to change the old ways government conducts itself. If decent politicians get into office the only ones holding them back are the unions and higher levels of government. Unfortuantly our leaders can be bought wich has to be changed as well.

[sneakers77]

If decent politicians get into office the only ones holding them back are the unions and higher levels of government. Unfortuantly our leaders can be bought wich has to be changed as well.[/B]

Whats your definition of a "decent politician"..........

[GG716]

Whats your definition of a "decent politician"..........

One who can or at least makes and attempt keep or lower taxes while providing a similar level of services to the taxpayers by cutting wasteful spending.
Yeah I know never going to happen because they can be bought and previous people made laws and entered into contracts preventing it.

[sneakers77]

One who can or at least makes and attempt keep or lower taxes while providing a similar level of services to the taxpayers by cutting wasteful spending.
Yeah I know never going to happen because they can be bought and previous people made laws and entered into contracts preventing it.

I agree, wasteful spending has no place in a budget.

[citymouse]

Civil service is responsible for seeing that the qualifications for hiring are met. They are often at odds with the administration. The politicians in power have made an art form of subverting civil service hiring requirements as much and as often as they can. They prefer to take care of their own and qualifications be damned.

Politicians and their hiring practices are often confused with the rank and file workers who came in under civil service. This is all has little to do with guys like me. We work in spite of it and try to work around it. But the very nature of Government makes it hard. It directly affects you every day like it or not.
There are things in place that stop the stealing of gas. Useless overtime is something I don't see. I don't like paying high taxes anymore than the next guy. The guy who pumps gas probably dosen't like high gas prices, but what can he do about it. Quit in protest? That wouldn't do much good, would it?

[Cgoodsp466]

citymouse: All these anti-union people would be happy as a pig in s**t if they had your job. I've never seen so much envy and jealousy in my life.


What local do you belong to? I bet one of those that are under investigation!

[Save Us]

Its absolutely feaking astounding that everyone forgets that the pubilic/taxpayer come first. I mean how much more simple can we make it for everyone. Government and their workers can't seem to understand that very simple principle. Yet we talk, discuss, debate.. but that's what it is all about.

I don't think I am the only person that has lived in other states who had public services for reasonable cost...why is that so bad? But yet as a consumer everyone demands and runs their life by that principal.


I honestly think that most people that live here can't see that forest through the trees...it's really pathetic.

[Cgoodsp466]

Its absolutely feaking astounding that everyone forgets that the pubilic/taxpayer come first. I mean how much more simple can we make it for everyone. Government and their workers can't seem to understand that very simple principle. Yet we talk, discuss, debate.. but that's what it is all about.

I don't think I am the only person that has lived in other states who had public services for reasonable cost...why is that so bad? But yet as a consumer everyone demands and runs their life by that principal.


I honestly think that most people that live here can't see that forest through the trees...it's really pathetic.

Most people who live here work for the party,and owe their financial lives to
the Reich.

[WNYresident]

Its absolutely feaking astounding that everyone forgets that the pubilic/taxpayer come first. I mean how much more simple can we make it for everyone. Government and their workers can't seem to understand that very simple principle. Yet we talk, discuss, debate.. but that's what it is all about.

I don't think I am the only person that has lived in other states who had public services for reasonable cost...why is that so bad? But yet as a consumer everyone demands and runs their life by that principal.


I honestly think that most people that live here can't see that forest through the trees...it's really pathetic.

Sad part is how pathetic a large group of elected officials are. They make statements like "our hands are tied" yet they are the ones that voted in items that supposily "tie our hands".

We can instantly cut spending but the elected officials who are on the recieving end just don't want to. Simple as that.

[mikenold]

I still have not found a way to find out how our state Representatives vote. I wish that someone on this message board knew of a way to get this information.

However, I do have a way to get our House Representative and Senate votes. In my case, this means Brian Higgins, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer. The link below will allow you to sign up for email updates on every vote made by your Representatives.

http://capwiz.com/gopusa/megavote/

Just go to the site and follow directions to get your email updates. I find it very interesting that their votes are very often not the way I would have voted. Clinton and Schumer have never answered any of my correspondence. Higgins has.

[mikenold]

I have just emailed Dennis H. Gabryszak and asked if there was a way to find the votes of the assembly and especially on the NYS budget that just passed. I will post his answer here, that is, if I get one. We'll see.

[citymouse]

Its absolutely feaking astounding that everyone forgets that the pubilic/taxpayer come first. I mean how much more simple can we make it for everyone. Government and their workers can't seem to understand that very simple principle. Yet we talk, discuss, debate.. but that's what it is all about.

I don't think I am the only person that has lived in other states who had public services for reasonable cost...why is that so bad? But yet as a consumer everyone demands and runs their life by that principal.


I honestly think that most people that live here can't see that forest through the trees...it's really pathetic.


I think it's absolutely freakin astounding that people like you seem to believe that public employees should be treated different than private industry employees. That there is some type of different stand art that we should be held to because our pay comes from the city treasury. That we should not have the right to bitch about our jobs just like anybody else. Or complain when we feel our employer is screwing us. I got my job the same as a guy in private industry, by applying and competing for it.
Public employees in other states don't make any less than we do. By comparison, many make more. We perform the same functions.
You say the public/taxpayer comes first. That's like saying the customer is always right. Does that mean if the customer dosen't like the price of gas the guy working in the gas station should take a pay cut to bring the prices down?
If what you say about the taxpayer coming first is true, well, I am also a taxpayer. My family that lives off my salary that I earn while providing service to the taxpayer are also taxpayers.

[Save Us]

I think it's absolutely freakin astounding that people like you seem to believe that public employees should be treated different than private industry employees. That there is some type of different stand art that we should be held to because our pay comes from the city treasury. That we should not have the right to bitch about our jobs just like anybody else. Or complain when we feel our employer is screwing us. I got my job the same as a guy in private industry, by applying and competing for it.
Public employees in other states don't make any less than we do. By comparison, many make more. We perform the same functions.
You say the public/taxpayer comes first. That's like saying the customer is always right. Does that mean if the customer dosen't like the price of gas the guy working in the gas station should take a pay cut to bring the prices down?
If what you say about the taxpayer coming first is true, well, I am also a taxpayer. My family that lives off my salary that I earn while providing service to the taxpayer are also taxpayers.

Mouse,

I have no problem with people that work for public service..I have a tremendous problem with people that stand in the way of making things efficient and cost effective, yes sometimes that involves scary changes.

If you tell me that this area operates efficiently without multitudes of redundancy and waste,and that there no room for improvement then I have some property in South Florida I would like to talk to you about,,,

This is exactly my point. I think that public service should feel some of the pinch, that the free market economy is going through. Your particular union/service may unspared economic realities , but I can assure you there are plenty of others that need to consolidate,merge or go bye bye.

Go back to the thread starter topic...it pretty much says it all.

[Cgoodsp466]

I think it's absolutely freakin astounding that people like you seem to believe that public employees should be treated different than private industry employees. That there is some type of different stand art that we should be held to because our pay comes from the city treasury. That we should not have the right to bitch about our jobs just like anybody else. Or complain when we feel our employer is screwing us. I got my job the same as a guy in private industry, by applying and competing for it.
Public employees in other states don't make any less than we do. By comparison, many make more. We perform the same functions.
You say the public/taxpayer comes first. That's like saying the customer is always right. Does that mean if the customer dosen't like the price of gas the guy working in the gas station should take a pay cut to bring the prices down?
If what you say about the taxpayer coming first is true, well, I am also a taxpayer. My family that lives off my salary that I earn while providing service to the taxpayer are also taxpayers.



A friggin amazeing.

[SundayNiagara]

A friggin amazeing.

Idaho is calling you!

[citymouse]

Mouse,



If you tell me that this area operates efficiently without multitudes of redundancy and waste,and that there no room for improvement then I have some property in South Florida I would like to talk to you about,,,



While property in South Florida isn't worth what it was last year, it's still not cheap.
In my department, which is all I am defending here, we do not have layers of waste or multitudes of redundancy. We have a pretty tight operation when it comes to equipment and manpower. And while there is room for improvement anywhere I wouldn't say it's overwhelming glaring with us.
Administratively you may have a point. But I can't dwell on that as I go about my daily routine. It would drive me to distraction. We just plod along day after day making the best of it in spite of the bureaucrats.

[SundayNiagara]

Stay in Buffalo, or go somewhere else. Too damn many people down here already!

[Cgoodsp466]

Idaho is calling you!

If I go I will invite you up to Ruby Ridge.

[Save Us]

Stay in Buffalo, or go somewhere else. Too damn many people down here already!


Nah,,, let's make this a better area...I like to fight the good fights

PS.

Try an air show...much more thrilling, used to like racing until an F -15 went past me on the runway about 100 yards away..

[Save Us]

While property in South Florida isn't worth what it was last year, it's still not cheap.
In my department, which is all I am defending here, we do not have layers of waste or multitudes of redundancy. We have a pretty tight operation when it comes to equipment and manpower. And while there is room for improvement anywhere I wouldn't say it's overwhelming glaring with us.
Administratively you may have a point. But I can't dwell on that as I go about my daily routine. It would drive me to distraction. We just plod along day after day making the best of it in spite of the bureaucrats.

Mouse,

maybe there is some way to get the bureacrats to listen..forgive my unbriddled enthusiasm and niavete',

[mikenold]

I have just emailed Dennis H. Gabryszak and asked if there was a way to find the votes of the assembly and especially on the NYS budget that just passed. I will post his answer here, that is, if I get one. We'll see.

I got an email today. This is the link:

http://www.assembly.state.ny.us/leg/

However, you have to know the bill number.

Adam Locher said:

The budget numbers were in the range of A9805 - you will want to look
for approximately four or five bills that make up the budget.

It is not easy, but the vote tally is there for each bill number.

[SundayNiagara]

If I go I will invite you up to Ruby Ridge.

I'm sure you know all the "right" places to visit!

[citymouse]

Mouse,

maybe there is some way to get the bureacrats to listen..forgive my unbriddled enthusiasm and niavete',


There are a few that might be interested. On the common council of Fantasy Land.

[Smiley]

There are a few that might be interested. On the common council of Fantasy Land.

I Love It ! :D :D :D

[Save Us]

Lock and load!

[Mr. Lackawanna]

Public employees in other states don't make any less than we do. By comparison, many make more.

Where do you get this information from?
I would like to view a list just how our local Public Employees salaries and their fringe benefits rank by a city/state average.

[Save Us]

Where do you get this information from?
I would like to view a list just how our local Public Employees salaries and their fringe benefits rank by a city/state average.


You'll never see it, because then your eyes would be opened and you would be enlightened! You would be disgusted and angered that we have been parasitized for years. Its called benchmarking and the public service folks do not want you to see it.

I can guarantee you we are at the top....too bad too for an area of the country that is not great economically nor poised for economic growth.

Go back to sleep in your poppy fields.......sleeep,,,,sleeeeeeep ,,,,,let them drink until you are anemic.

[Save Us]

sorry, forgot to mention medicaid/state mandates and other socialistic vehicles that make us Number one. ....yeah.

[citymouse]

You'll never see it, because then your eyes would be opened and you would be enlightened! You would be disgusted and angered that we have been parasitized for years. Its called benchmarking and the public service folks do not want you to see it.

I can guarantee you we are at the top....too bad too for an area of the country that is not great economically nor poised for economic growth.

Go back to sleep in your poppy fields.......sleeep,,,,sleeeeeeep ,,,,,let them drink until you are anemic.


I think, if you look at the pay scales, you would see the city of Buffalo pretty close to the bottom.

[Save Us]

I think, if you look at the pay scales, you would see the city of Buffalo pretty close to the bottom.


If that is truly the case including benefits then that should be rectified and fixed.

[Smiley]

If that is truly the case including benefits then that should be rectified and fixed.

Fix it would be great, but people on this MB have the public sector employees in a race to the bottom. You won't get much support on that thought.

[WNYresident]

You'll never see it, because then your eyes would be opened and you would be enlightened! You would be disgusted and angered that we have been parasitized for years. Its called benchmarking and the public service folks do not want you to see it.

I can guarantee you we are at the top....too bad too for an area of the country that is not great economically nor poised for economic growth.

Go back to sleep in your poppy fields.......sleeep,,,,sleeeeeeep ,,,,,let them drink until you are anemic.

You know we should put that togeather and also rank it against population per employee etc...

[Cgoodsp466]

If that is truly the case including benefits then that should be rectified and fixed.

Yes let the private sector run things.Tell me what job except Fire and police the private sector could not do better. Put it all out to bid.I dont mind paying if I am getting my moneys worth. Go in to the DMV if you want to see waste.

[Cgoodsp466]

Fix it would be great, but people on this MB have the public sector employees in a race to the bottom. You won't get much support on that thought.

Your right on that one smiler. The government # 1 employer what does that tell you?

[Save Us]

There is no dipsute by any noteworthy economist that when the government is the number one employer,,,a region is going to go down..and we are...couple that with NYS poor attitude for businesses...where the f does everybody think the money comes from?
kinda like a spoiled child that doesn't realize that mom and dad only have so much money! and no we cannot afford x y z.

This is extremely obvious to even those that are half awake or not paying attention.
There is also no dispute by anyone with a pulse that we have too much government and that it is way to freaking expensive,,,for chrissake the private sector is getting smart tooling for the world economy that we have to adapt to, while the public sector/politicians are mostly tools. Not all but too many.

That's why I have been calling for an airstrike on our own position,,,because we are overrun. It would be nice if the people that we pay to strategize running municipalities would study other areas and find out how to do it more cost effectively....read consolidation. I was responding to mouse as it applies to cost comparison and benchmarking.

How can anybody that runs amherst justify the obscene taxes,,,I mean where the hell does the money go?

Then I realized that We the People work for the government and as Rez said...it would be nice to get stats on taxpayer per public office/worker. 74 taxing juristictions???? are you for real...how does anybody defend that??

I honestly don't know how long it is going to take before planet earth crashes into some of these people and institutions.

[Smiley]

Your right on that one smiler. The government # 1 employer what does that tell you?

That tells me that NAFTA and CAFTA are doing what ithey were designed to do...screw the american people

[bflonum1fan]

Citymouse always gets in his 2 cents about not having a raise for many years, but still doesn't own up to all the time off he gets, both sick time and vacation. And when does he retire ? At the ripe age of 55 ? (an old man I'd say). And what about the gargantuan pension, and tax free no less, and free health care ? And after they retire they will get another job and collect social security when they are 62. What bulls__it !

With all those bennies, thry should just keep working and if smart, keep their mouths shut.

But no, I hear now that they are going to the courts to try and get theTaylor law (which prevents strikes of public employees) revoked.

Fire 'em all and let the garbage pile up and let the snow lay on the streets. Bring in volunteer firemen and invoke posse comitatus. That will teach 'em.
If everyone carried a sidearm, there would be a lots less crime.

[Cgoodsp466]

Citymouse always gets in his 2 cents about not having a raise for many years, but still doesn't own up to all the time off he gets, both sick time and vacation. And when does he retire ? At the ripe age of 55 ? (an old man I'd say). And what about the gargantuan pension, and tax free no less, and free health care ? And after they retire they will get another job and collect social security when they are 62. What bulls__it !

With all those bennies, thry should just keep working and if smart, keep their mouths shut.

But no, I hear now that they are going to the courts to try and get theTaylor law (which prevents strikes of public employees) revoked.

Fire 'em all and let the garbage pile up and let the snow lay on the streets. Bring in volunteer firemen and invoke posse comitatus. That will teach 'em.
If everyone carried a sidearm, there would be a lots less crime.


Right On Fan

[Save Us]

What is posse comitatus?

Yes its easy for everyone to forget about the most generous ny pension plan which will eventually along with medi caid etc will bankrupt us

It is pretty disgusting that social security marks 65-67 for retirement not to our public servents though.

[bflonum1fan]

Posse Comitatus (Latin): Power of the county. The whole force of the county - that is, all the male members of a county over fifteen, who may be summoned by a sheriff to assist in preventing a riot, the rescue of prisoners, or other unlawful disorders. Clergymen, peers, and the infirm are exempt. Source: Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, E. Cobham Brewer, 1894

Basicly civilian law enforcement under authority of the county sheriff.

[Save Us]

Bring it on.