If You were to die soon

[Bringthetruth]

Would you be ready to meet God ?

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[justKel]

Doesn't this belong in the Religion forum?

So why is it that the All-Powerful God needs humans to create cute little video vignettes with scenes of death and destruction and emotional music to try to persuade his alleged creation that we all need to follow him or burn in hell forever? It seems he could do this himself if he really wanted to...

Kelli

[Yorku]

Doesn't this belong in the Religion forum?

So why is it that the All-Powerful God needs humans to create cute little video vignettes with scenes of death and destruction and emotional music to try to persuade his alleged creation that we all need to follow him or burn in hell forever? It seems he could do this himself if he really wanted to...

Kelli

DUH!!! God TOLD them to create the vignettes. Didn't you know?

[Bringthetruth]

Doesn't this belong in the Religion forum?

So why is it that the All-Powerful God needs humans to create cute little video vignettes with scenes of death and destruction and emotional music to try to persuade his alleged creation that we all need to follow him or burn in hell forever? It seems he could do this himself if he really wanted to...

Kelli


You are free to choose, he gives you that right because he loves you.:)

[speaker]

You are free to choose, he gives you that right because he loves you.:)

So why don't you love us (in a charitable way, of course) and stop telling us how bad we are and what awful things our generation has done to your people?

[mesue]

Doesn't this belong in the Religion forum?

So why is it that the All-Powerful God needs humans to create cute little video vignettes with scenes of death and destruction and emotional music to try to persuade his alleged creation that we all need to follow him or burn in hell forever? It seems he could do this himself if he really wanted to...

Kelli
I didn't see the videos, yet. I might. I just don't feel like it now.
Christians are commissioned to preach the gospel. It's called The Great Commission.
God really doesn't need our help in calling people to Himself, He's perfectly capable of doing it all by Himself. We do it so we can answer questions from people just as yourself. If you are really interested in learning, PM me and I will open a Bible with you and show you what God has to say.

[mesue]

Oh, and yes BTT, if I were to die right this second I would be in Heaven. Of this I am sure. :)

[justKel]

You are free to choose, he gives you that right because he loves you.:)

Does he love us unconditionally?

[mesue]

Does he love us unconditionally?
yes, but there is a difference between love and salvation. They are not the same thing.

[Bringthetruth]

Does he love us unconditionally?


Yes he loves unconditionally, but like any good parent he also knows how to discipline with love.

[justKel]

Yes he loves unconditionally, but like any good parent he also knows how to discipline with love.

Sending anyone to be tortured for eternity for any reason is not unconditional love and it is certainly not discipline. The Christian God makes Saddam Hussein seem tame in comparison.

Kelli

[justKel]

yes, but there is a difference between love and salvation. They are not the same thing.

Of course love and "salvation" are different. Please explain your point.

Kelli

[Bringthetruth]

Sending anyone to be tortured for eternity for any reason is not unconditional love and it is certainly not discipline. The Christian God makes Saddam Hussein seem tame in comparison.

Kelli


Since you said you studied the bible, what main person is against(oppossed) of God in the bible and what is his plan for man kind?

[mesue]

Sending anyone to be tortured for eternity for any reason is not unconditional love and it is certainly not discipline. The Christian God makes Saddam Hussein seem tame in comparison.

Kelli
That's your perspective. You said you had understanding when you_wrote (http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/showpost.php?p=321081&postcount=65) in another thread. I am now compelled to ask; what sin beside blasphemy, is not covered under Christ's shed blood?
Standing in a garage doesn't make a car, does it? Neither does sitting in a church, listening to Christian radio or rehabbing in a Christian camp make you a Christian.

[mesue]

Of course love and "salvation" are different. Please explain your point.

Kelli
Why? you agreed.
Salvation is accepting that Jesus Christ shed His blood as an atonement for your sin debt. Believing that He died and was raised again and is seated at God's right hand. That is love. Would you shed your blood for me?

[justKel]

Since you said you studied the bible, what main person is against(oppossed) of God in the bible and what is his plan for man kind?

I'm not quite sure what your first question is, but the second "what is his plan for man kind?"...

If you read certain verses in the NT it claims that Gods plan is that "the world (through him {Jesus}) will be saved." The sticking point to all this is that there are a lot of conflicting passages in Scripture that can't be reconciled without trashing one or the other. If you are a Universalist then you have to deal with passages such as Matthew 24, Luke 18:26, Acts 2:21 and just about everything attributed to Paul.

I have to leave for real work now but I'll check in again later. It'll be interesting to see the posts that will ensue here in my absence, I am certain LOL.

Kelli

[justKel]

That's your perspective. You said you had understanding when you_wrote (http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/showpost.php?p=321081&postcount=65) in another thread. I am now compelled to ask; what sin beside blasphemy, is not covered under Christ's shed blood?
Standing in a garage doesn't make a car, does it? Neither does sitting in a church, listening to Christian radio or rehabbing in a Christian camp make you a Christian.

I knew you would pull the "you were never saved" card. The car and garage bit, very cliche'. Ya know what mesue? I don't have time for such pettiness. If you want to invalidate what I did, how I felt and how I lived for 18 years, go right ahead, but you won't get anywhere with me. Invalidate my experiences and I'll simply ignore you because it's not worth discussing anything with you. Yes, it's possible for people to have a real salvation experience and "walk the walk" for years and years and then have a reality check. I know that's hard for you to believe, it certainly was for me, but it's true.

Kelli

[mesue]

I knew you would pull the "you were never saved" card. The car and garage bit, very cliche'. Ya know what mesue? I don't have time for such pettiness. If you want to invalidate what I did, how I felt and how I lived for 18 years, go right ahead, but you won't get anywhere with me. Invalidate my experiences and I'll simply ignore you because it's not worth discussing anything with you. Yes, it's possible for people to have a real salvation experience and "walk the walk" for years and years and then have a reality check. I know that's hard for you to believe, it certainly was for me, but it's true.

KelliI never said you were never saved. You just did. It's not for me to know your heart.

[Bringthetruth]

I'm not quite sure what your first question is, but the second "what is his plan for man kind?"...

If you read certain verses in the NT it claims that Gods plan is that "the world (through him {Jesus}) will be saved." The sticking point to all this is that there are a lot of conflicting passages in Scripture that can't be reconciled without trashing one or the other. If you are a Universalist then you have to deal with passages such as Matthew 24, Luke 18:26, Acts 2:21 and just about everything attributed to Paul.

I have to leave for real work now but I'll check in again later. It'll be interesting to see the posts that will ensue here in my absence, I am certain LOL.

Kelli

What is satan(lucifer's) plan for man kind is what I meant.

If you studied like you said , you would come to the conclusion that satan has a plan oppossed to God's plan and he will try and decieve many like he did eve.

He told eve, if you eat of the tree of life you will be just like God.

Eve didn't know she was already like God, she was made in his image.

It's human nature to want to be in control of our circumstances and our lives.

But the truly fortunate people come to a point in their lives when they realize that this isn't possible or even desirable.

Those that are fortunate come to the end of themselves and realize they need a God.

[mesue]

I knew you would pull the "you were never saved" card. The car and garage bit, very cliche'. Ya know what mesue? I don't have time for such pettiness. If you want to invalidate what I did, how I felt and how I lived for 18 years, go right ahead, but you won't get anywhere with me. Invalidate my experiences and I'll simply ignore you because it's not worth discussing anything with you. Yes, it's possible for people to have a real salvation experience and "walk the walk" for years and years and then have a reality check. I know that's hard for you to believe, it certainly was for me, but it's true.

Kelli
and ... FWIW ...If you were once saved you will always be saved. You can turn your back on God, but He will never turn His back on you. That's also cliché but true none the less.

[Bringthetruth]

and ... FWIW ...If you were once saved you will always be saved. You can turn your back on God, but He will never turn His back on you. That's also cliché but true none the less.


For instance what if i'm practicing fornicating or adultery as a christian when Jesus comes back, before I repent.

What does scriptures say about those if they are practcing these things types of sins when he comes. They won't inherit or enter the kingdom of God

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

[mesue]

For instance what if i'm practicing fornicating or adultery as a christian when Jesus comes back, before I repent.

What does scriptures say about those if they are practcing these things types of sins when he comes. They won't inherit or enter the kingdom of God

...
You will definately not recieve a reward for your sin, but your salvation will remain unchanged.
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1Corinthians 3:12-15

[mesue]

So why don't you love us (in a charitable way, of course) and stop telling us how bad we are and what awful things our generation has done to your people?
We're all bad, everyone of us. Even Christians sin.

[buffy]

The Invisible War (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=7QKfVvCeXe8C&dq=the+invisible+war+donald+barnhouse&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=t-fn8aKr9-&sig=TrmVLZQoroePZbk_mr8290MGDoU) by Donald Barnhouse is an excellent and scholarly work that I highly recommend to anyone who desires further clarification.
What is satan(lucifer's) plan for man kind is what I meant.

If you studied like you said , you would come to the conclusion that satan has a plan oppossed to God's plan and he will try and decieve many like he did eve.

He told eve, if you eat of the tree of life you will be just like God.

Eve didn't know she was already like God, she was made in his image.

It's human nature to want to be in control of our circumstances and our lives.

But the truly fortunate people come to a point in their lives when they realize that this isn't possible or even desirable.

Those that are fortunate come to the end of themselves and realize they need a God.

and for Merle, who asked what kind of God send people to burn in Hell, ... In the End, the very END, please be advised that it appears that eternal placement comes down to a personal judgement by God. Satan is the accuser, Jesus is the Savior. Take that for what it's worth to you. YOu will stand before the judgement seat of God. Everyone should be asking themselves, who is is better prepared to handle my case? Who is going to have more positive things to say about me?

[Yorku]

and for Merle, who asked what kind of God send people to burn in Hell, ... In the End, the very END, please be advised that it appears that eternal placement comes down to a personal judgement by God. Satan is the accuser, Jesus is the Savior. Take that for what it's worth to you. YOu will stand before the judgement seat of God. Everyone should be asking themselves, who is is better prepared to handle my case? Who is going to have more positive things to say about me?

My mother.

[wheresthesun]

another question about Christianity, and religion in general: If Christianity is not a religion, but an entity which resides within your heart, then why go to church? Why attend church groups? Why quote the bible? Why throw it up all over the place on these forums? That is, if it truly resides in your heart. (which is a crock and you all know it)

[Ragin]

Would you be ready to meet God ?



yup .. ready and willing

[Bringthetruth]

another question about Christianity, and religion in general: If Christianity is not a religion, but an entity which resides within your heart, then why go to church? Why attend church groups? Why quote the bible? Why throw it up all over the place on these forums? That is, if it truly resides in your heart. (which is a crock and you all know it)

Hebrews 10-25,26 says:


25Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

[wheresthesun]

Hebrews 10-25,26 says:


25Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
This tells me NOTHING! Is it about spreading the word? If it's in your heart then spreading the word is a moot point, right?

[justKel]

What is satan(lucifer's) plan for man kind is what I meant.

If you studied like you said , you would come to the conclusion that satan has a plan oppossed to God's plan and he will try and decieve many like he did eve.

I just love you guys and your underhanded ways of implying that I'm either lying or just don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

Yes, according to most Christians' interpretation of Scripture, this being called Satan rebelled against God and has his own plan which is to take over and destroy any good in God's creation. Personally, I don't believe in Satan, but that's the common Christian belief.


He told eve, if you eat of the tree of life you will be just like God.

Eve didn't know she was already like God, she was made in his image.

It's human nature to want to be in control of our circumstances and our lives.

But the truly fortunate people come to a point in their lives when they realize that this isn't possible or even desirable.

Those that are fortunate come to the end of themselves and realize they need a God.

Well, what you are saying is really contradictory. You're saying that in order to find salvation you have to give up control. But in essence the Christian actually is in control because it is up to the Christian to decide to follow God. Therefore Christian salvation as most interpret it is neither free nor is it done with no effort on the part of the believer. Salvation, as most evangelical Christians believe it to be, is dependent on the person believing and accepting. That's a conscious act that must be performed by the person. And second, if God sends those who do not perform said act to hell for eternity, then God's love is not unconditional either.

Kelli

[justKel]

YOu will stand before the judgement seat of God. Everyone should be asking themselves, who is is better prepared to handle my case? Who is going to have more positive things to say about me?

So you're saying that Jesus and Satan are lawyers? That explains a lot.

Kelli

[bigpoppapuff]

So you're saying that Jesus and Satan are lawyers? That explains a lot.

Kelli

"hurt in a car"........???

[mesue]

So you're saying that Jesus and Satan are lawyers? That explains a lot.

Kelli
The Pharisees were considered lawyers because they knew the laws. That's why they strained at gnats. Jesus wrote the law and fulfilled the law. Satan knows what the law is better than any man on this planet. Paul was a lawyer. He studied under Gamaliel, the lawyers of lawyers back then. Studying under Gamaliel then was probably likened to obtaining a law degree from Harvard today, very prestigious.
Anyway, if I had to choose between Jesus and Satan representing me, I'd choose Jesus because he wrote the law, is the law and the fulfillment of it.

[Bringthetruth]

I just love you guys and your underhanded ways of implying that I'm either lying or just don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

Yes, according to most Christians' interpretation of Scripture, this being called Satan rebelled against God and has his own plan which is to take over and destroy any good in God's creation. Personally, I don't believe in Satan, but that's the common Christian belief.



Well, what you are saying is really contradictory. You're saying that in order to find salvation you have to give up control. But in essence the Christian actually is in control because it is up to the Christian to decide to follow God. Therefore Christian salvation as most interpret it is neither free nor is it done with no effort on the part of the believer. Salvation, as most evangelical Christians believe it to be, is dependent on the person believing and accepting. That's a conscious act that must be performed by the person. And second, if God sends those who do not perform said act to hell for eternity, then God's love is not unconditional either.

Kelli

Finding salvation is giving up control, God is the perfect gentlemen, if you don't say yes , he stays out until you allow him your heart.

When you tried to run your life what did you get ? Freedom Village.

Put the letter I in the word run and you get the word "RUIN"

His love is is shown when he gives you a choice, he didn't have to send his own son to die for mankind, what are you talking about ???


Listen if you "ALLOWED" someone to get in between you and God, that is your choice.

But kelli you will remember this day .

[justKel]

Anyway, if I had to choose between Jesus and Satan representing me, I'd choose Jesus because he wrote the law, is the law and the fulfillment of it.

It's funny, because Christians like to talk about how Gods ways are not like our ways, but yet they then make literal references to things that are entirely human in nature.

I'm not worried about whether someone is going to make a case for me or not. Either God loves me or he/she doesn't. If God truly loves me then there's no case to be heard. God already knows everything, so no need for any trial.

Kelli

[Bringthetruth]

It's funny, because Christians like to talk about how Gods ways are not like our ways, but yet they then make literal references to things that are entirely human in nature.

I'm not worried about whether someone is going to make a case for me or not. Either God loves me or he/she doesn't. If God truly loves me then there's no case to be heard. God already knows everything, so no need for any trial.

Kelli

I can Love my child all day long , but if they choose to live like the neighborhood kids(bad) , there will be consequences.

As a loving parent that's just the way it is.

[mesue]

It's funny, because Christians like to talk about how Gods ways are not like our ways, but yet they then make literal references to things that are entirely human in nature.

I'm not worried about whether someone is going to make a case for me or not. Either God loves me or he/she doesn't. If God truly loves me then there's no case to be heard. God already knows everything, so no need for any trial.

Kelli
I was always under the impression that God's thoughts are not ours, because we, as humans, are evil continually. I know I am.
God loves His creation, even the rocks would sing His praises. I have no doubt about that. But I also don't doubt that my sin has to be atoned for some how before I can go to my Creator. I know that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one goes to the Father but by Him. This is the sum of my faith. Does that make me perfect? Heck no! If I were perfect I would be God or a god. You can tell by my posts that I am not perfect.
The trial is our day of judgment. Of this you can be sure, there are two courts of judgment. The Judgment Seat of Christ and The Great White Throne Judgment. Which one you stand in then depends on who you stand in now. In Christ alone I stand, therefore I know where I'll stand, at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

[justKel]

Finding salvation is giving up control, God is the perfect gentlemen, if you don't say yes , he stays out until you allow him your heart.

Now see, that's just crazy. These are completely flawed analogies. By what you are saying, you would wait until the person being mugged gave you permission to help them before you intervened. You'd ask the woman being raped if it was OK if you saved her from the rapist before you kicked the rapists ass. And Jesus is the perfect gentleman by not saving people from eternal torture unless we nicely give him permission. Do you see how asinine that idea is?

When you tried to run your life what did you get ? Freedom Village.

Not sure what you're getting at there.

Put the letter I in the word run and you get the word "RUIN"

Cute

His love is is shown when he gives you a choice, he didn't have to send his own son to die for mankind, what are you talking about ???

Hmmm. A choice. Turn or burn. Do what I say or be tortured for eternity. That's not a choice, that's coercion.

Listen if you "ALLOWED" someone to get in between you and God, that is your choice.

Why is it that you say I have allowed "someone" to get between me and God. I already said I believe in God. I just don't view God the same way you do. But of course, my view can't possibly be correct...

But kelli you will remember this day .

Oh? Are you getting philosophical and mystical-spiritual on me now? Or is that just a mildly masked condescending way of "giving me up" to be damned and washing your hands of me?

Kelli

[justKel]

I can Love my child all day long , but if they choose to live like the neighborhood kids(bad) , there will be consequences.

As a loving parent that's just the way it is.

A loving parent would NEVER allow their child to be tortured, burned, enslaved... Never. Bad analogy. Very bad. If there is a hell and anyone goes there, God is a monster. I'd rather spend eternity in hell than eternity with a god who would allow anyone to go to a place like it.

Kelli

[justKel]

I was always under the impression that God's thoughts are not ours, because we, as humans, are evil continually. I know I am.
God loves His creation, even the rocks would sing His praises. I have no doubt about that. But I also don't doubt that my sin has to be atoned for some how before I can go to my Creator. I know that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one goes to the Father but by Him. This is the sum of my faith. Does that make me perfect? Heck no! If I were perfect I would be God or a god. You can tell by my posts that I am not perfect.
The trial is our day of judgment. Of this you can be sure, there are two courts of judgment. The Judgment Seat of Christ and The Great White Throne Judgment. Which one you stand in then depends on who you stand in now. In Christ alone I stand, therefore I know where I'll stand, at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

So when you die how are you going to feel about all those people who died and are being tortured for eternity while you're all snuggly with Jesus, partying it up in heaven for eternity?

Kelli

[mesue]

So when you die how are you going to feel about all those people who died and are being tortured for eternity while you're all snuggly with Jesus, partying it up in heaven for eternity?

Kelli
How do I feel now? Sad and heart broken.
How will I feel then? God says there will be no more tears in Heaven.
How will you feel? You'll still be in Heaven even though your back is turned now. How will you feel when you are snuggly with Jesus and the ones that chose not to follow Jesus, because of what you are saying today, are not in Heaven?

[justKel]

How do I feel now? Sad and heart broken.
How will I feel then? God says there will be no more tears in Heaven.
How will you feel? You'll still be in Heaven even though your back is turned now. How will you feel when you are snuggly with Jesus and the ones that chose not to follow Jesus, because of what you are saying today, are not in Heaven?

How will there not be any tears in heaven? Why would you not grieve over those who didn't make it?

Kelli

[Yorku]

How will there not be any tears in heaven? Why would you not grieve over those who didn't make it?

Kelli

I would cry just because they only sell Birkenstocks in heaven.

At least the Muslims get 70 virgin women.

[mesue]

How will there not be any tears in heaven? Why would you not grieve over those who didn't make it?

KelliRevelation 7:17
Today I grieve for people that I'm pretty sure didn't make it, like the inmate that screamed his last breath. That was scary. But I don't know who will be there. I can make fairly good guesses, but I can't be certain of who will be in Heaven and who won't. It is said that we will be suprised not only at who will be in Heaven, but who won't be there as well.
Say, for the sake of debate, that I will grieve in Heaven. Answer me this, I'll ask again; How will you feel? You'll still be in Heaven even though your back is turned now. How will you feel when you are snuggly with Jesus and the ones that chose not to follow Jesus, because of what you are saying today, are not in Heaven?

[mesue]

I would cry just because they only sell Birkenstocks in heaven.

At least the Muslims get 70 virgin women.
But, I don't want women.

[justKel]

Revelation 7:17
Today I grieve for people that I'm pretty sure didn't make it, like the inmate that screamed his last breath. That was scary. But I don't know who will be there. I can make fairly good guesses, but I can't be certain of who will be in Heaven and who won't. It is said that we will be suprised not only at who will be in Heaven, but who won't be there as well.
Say, for the sake of debate, that I will grieve in Heaven. Answer me this, I'll ask again; How will you feel? You'll still be in Heaven even though your back is turned now. How will you feel when you are snuggly with Jesus and the ones that chose not to follow Jesus, because of what you are saying today, are not in Heaven?

I asked you first and you dodged the question. Answer it truthfully and I will answer yours.

Kelli

[mesue]

I asked you first and you dodged the question. Answer it truthfully and I will answer yours.

Kelli
This is a dodge?How do I feel now? Sad and heart broken.
How will I feel then? God says there will be no more tears in Heaven.
How? And How did I answer untruthfully?

[justKel]

This is a dodge? How? And How did I answer untruthfully?

I asked you how there would be no tears in heaven.

[mesue]

I asked you how there would be no tears in heaven.
I gave you the Scripture reference.
Further, I answered your questions while you dodged mine all along.

[justKel]

I gave you the Scripture reference.
Further, I answered your questions while you dodged mine all along.

I didn't dodge any questions, not purposely. And I didn't ask what Scripture said, I asked how you personally thought you would feel about it.

[mesue]

I didn't dodge any questions, not purposely. And I didn't ask what Scripture said, I asked how you personally thought you would feel about it.
I believe Scripture to be true. If God said it, it's good enough for me. I told you how I would feel. I can only speak of how I feel now because I know where I am now. I cannot speak of how it will be in Heaven because I'm not there yet. I can only go on God's word.
:) Now, stop dancing around your dodge and answer the questions.

[justKel]

I believe Scripture to be true. If God said it, it's good enough for me. I told you how I would feel. I can only speak of how I feel now because I know where I am now. I cannot speak of how it will be in Heaven because I'm not there yet. I can only go on God's word.
:) Now, stop dancing around your dodge and answer the questions.

Say, for the sake of debate, that I will grieve in Heaven. Answer me this, I'll ask again; How will you feel? You'll still be in Heaven even though your back is turned now. How will you feel when you are snuggly with Jesus and the ones that chose not to follow Jesus, because of what you are saying today, are not in Heaven?

Honestly, I won't grieve because I don't believe there will be anyone in hell. If Jesus indeed does exist, and if he indeed is the savior of the world, then I believe that he would do as he said he felt -- that he desired that no one would perish and be condemned. I just don't believe God would allow that to happen to people.

BTW, if I came across harsh before, I am sorry.

Kelli

[mesue]

Honestly, I won't grieve because I don't believe there will be anyone in hell. If Jesus indeed does exist, and if he indeed is the savior of the world, then I believe that he would do as he said he felt -- that he desired that no one would perish and be condemned. I just don't believe God would allow that to happen to people.

BTW, if I came across harsh before, I am sorry.

Kelli
I know what you are saying and I used to feel the same way, but that was before I was saved. That was before I studied God's word. I don't know everything there is to know about God,and how cool would that be if I could? But I know a little more than I used to know. Some day I will write this all out in a neat little package that is easy to read. But right this moment, I have to go to bed. I have to get up early.
I'm sorry if I came across as harsh, I usually do for some reason. I think it's not so much my being harsh as it is my documentation. As a nurse the notes have to be brief and concise. This can come off as bitch slapping. Then there are times when I purposely bitch slap. Your's is not the case. I don't know you that well enough to bitch slap you around :) :p

[wheresthesun]

Then there are times when I purposely bitch slap. Your's is not the case. I don't know you that well enough to bitch slap you around :) :p
Well, that doesn't sound very Christian, does it? :rolleyes:

[mesue]

Well, that doesn't sound very Christian, does it? :rolleyes:
You and I won't see eye to eye on a lot of things, and not because you say you are Jewish. You say you are Jewish. What do you know of Christian standards and things, that you hold me to this standard with your rolly eye smiley?

[wheresthesun]

You and I won't see eye to eye on a lot of things, and not because you say you are Jewish. You say you are Jewish. What do you know of Christian standards and things, that you hold me to this standard with your rolly eye smiley?
1. Did I say I am Jewish? Where? Implied, maybe, because I think you view Jews as the anti-christ.
2. You will never see eye to eye with anyone who isn't just like you, nor will you take the time to get to know them because you constantly pass judgment, like no one else on these boards.
3. I hold you to no standard--it is you who holds yourself to the higher standard...I keep waiting and hoping for an indication that this is not the case but over and over you prove me right.
4. Funny isn't it, how those of us who are secure with our faiths, rarely discuss them on a personal level? I feel no need to defend my religion (faith) to you, or anyone...but you never stop defending yours to us. Why is that do you think?

[therising]

You and I won't see eye to eye on a lot of things, and not because you say you are Jewish. You say you are Jewish. What do you know of Christian standards and things, that you hold me to this standard with your rolly eye smiley?

Dear mesue:

I was just gonna say something, but I erased it after typing it.

Enjoy heaven. The fun people will be with me. :)

[justKel]

I know what you are saying and I used to feel the same way, but that was before I was saved. That was before I studied God's word. I don't know everything there is to know about God,and how cool would that be if I could? But I know a little more than I used to know.

Well, as I have said, these are my beliefs after having been saved and studying the Bible. I don't think we can know everything about God, which is why I am agnostic and a bit pagan. What really bothers me is when people claim to know so much about God and impose their beliefs on everyone else. I think it's completely OK not to know. I am much more at peace now that I am comfortable with myself and my beliefs and not really knowing.

Kelli

[Bringthetruth]

A loving parent would NEVER allow their child to be tortured, burned, enslaved... Never. Bad analogy. Very bad. If there is a hell and anyone goes there, God is a monster. I'd rather spend eternity in hell than eternity with a god who would allow anyone to go to a place like it.

Kelli

#1 You don't believe God is Holy, if you did you would understand his standards could never be like man who was born into sin thanks to Adam and Eve. .

God's desire is that no man be lost, but man can choose between light and darkness.


If your child went and broke the law by commiting murder and raping someone and was punished to jail , what can you do as a loving parent besides go and visit him.

This why God sent his son , to save mankind if they would accept what jesus did on the cross by shedding his blood as a sacrifice for all mankind to be saved.

Our sins is what makes us need a savior, and you're new perverted view of God calling him a monster is just silly.

I thought you new the bible, didn't it say that satan came to kill, steal and DESTROY? That's his job, that's what he does, he wants decieves mankind to do as he want them to do, if they because he wants to keep his control over you.

So why would you label God with that mess.

God is love and in him is no darkness at all.

Somewhere you got it twisted , and you now want to believe a lie.

Roman 1-21,22:

21Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and godless in their thinking with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations and their senseless minds were darkened.

22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves.

[Yorku]

#1 You don't believe God is Holy, if you did you would understand his standards could never be like man who was born into sin thanks to Adam and Eve.


If your child went and broke the law by commiting murder and raping someone and was punished to jail , what can you do as a loving parent besides go and visit him.

Our sins is what makes us need a savior, and you're new perverted view of God calling him a monster is just silly.

I thought you new the bible, didn't it say that satan came to kill, steal and DESTROY? That's his job, that's what he does, he wants decieves mankind to do as he want them to do, if they because he wants to keep his control over you.

So why would you label God with that mess.

God is love and in him is no darkness at all.

Somewhere you got it twisted , and you now want to believe a lie.

Roman 1-21,22:

21Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and godless in their thinking with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations and their senseless minds were darkened.

22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves.

And Austin 3:16 says I just whooped your ass.

These scriptures are 100% meaningless to a lot of people, including myself. I am completely aware that humans, not God, wrote the Bible. Because of this, it loses credibility.

You can say all you want that the bible was written under god's guidance, but we ALL know that that's a crock.

There may or may not be a god or gods. If there is, I hope she ends up being a lesbian.

[mesue]

1. Did I say I am Jewish? Where? Implied, maybe, because I think you view Jews as the anti-christ.
2. You will never see eye to eye with anyone who isn't just like you, nor will you take the time to get to know them because you constantly pass judgment, like no one else on these boards.
3. I hold you to no standard--it is you who holds yourself to the higher standard...I keep waiting and hoping for an indication that this is not the case but over and over you prove me right.
4. Funny isn't it, how those of us who are secure with our faiths, rarely discuss them on a personal level? I feel no need to defend my religion (faith) to you, or anyone...but you never stop defending yours to us. Why is that do you think?
1) Yes, you told me you were Jewish. I can only go by what you tell me. But then the rising purported himself a woman a couple of months ago. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I know the Jews are God's chosen people. Don't place me in a group that I don't belong to. I NEVER, EVER said one jot of anything derogatory about anyone Jewish or otherwise. You should be ashamed of yourself for even intimating such a thing.
2) There are not too many people "just like me" in fact, there are none.
4) You do hold me to some sort of pre determined in you head standard when you tell me, with rolly eyed smiley (woodstock) of how "Christian" I am being.
5) How secure are you in your faith that you can't even begin to discuss it? I know my faith like the back of my hand. Therefore I can, and do, discuss it.
I have to go to work ...

[justKel]

#1 You don't believe God is Holy, if you did you would understand his standards could never be like man who was born into sin thanks to Adam and Eve.

I simply don't believe that God is as the Bible portrays hir. You do realize that the Bible has countless contradictions, right? That's why there are so many different interpretations and different Christian denominations, because there are so many ways to interpret the book that was written by man in an attempt to explain God.

God's desire is that no man be lost, but man can choose between light and darkness.

What you believe to be darkness may not necessarily be darkness.

If your child went and broke the law by commiting murder and raping someone and was punished to jail , what can you do as a loving parent besides go and visit him.

When in prison there is hope for rehabilitation and redemption. In hell there is no hope for either. It is eternal with no hope for anything. Hell is cruel and pointless. Only a monster would invent something like hell. Do you plan on visiting your children or relatives who end up in hell? See why your analogy is flawed?

This why God sent his son , to save mankind if they would accept what jesus did on the cross by shedding his blood as a sacrifice for all mankind to be saved.

Our sins is what makes us need a savior, and you're new perverted view of God calling him a monster is just silly.

My way of thinking is neither new, exclusive to me, nor is it silly. If your god sends any human to a place like hell for eternity then he is a monster. I make no apologies for saying that. Your god is a god of coercion and fear. You don't love your god because he is good or because you just want to, you act like you love him, do what you think he wants you to do and say the things you think he wants you to say, out of fear. Deep down, if you are honest with yourself, you will realize this is true. Fear rules you, not the love of God.

I thought you new the bible, didn't it say that satan came to kill, steal and DESTROY? That's his job, that's what he does, he wants decieves mankind to do as he want them to do, if they because he wants to keep his control over you.

So why would you label God with that mess.

Yes I know the Bible. I'm guessing that I may have read and studied it more than you have, to be quite frank. That is why I believe what I do about it. I gave up listening to people's hermeneutic explanations of scripture, which is a complicated web. Like lies, Biblical interpretations must dodge many Biblical contradictions. One interpretation explains another, and another and in the end you have a complicated mess in which you still have to ignore many important questions because there is no other way to interpret the Bible. It was written by people in their attempt to explain or persuade others what God is.

Simply put, just because I have studied the Bible and know it doesn't mean I believe all of it, or any of it. You are narrowminded in your thinking that if someone doesn't believe as you do that means they don't know the Scriptures. You only know and believe what you choose to believe from it. You know you have many unanswered questions yet you quietly place those questions in a dark back corner of your mind, while you at the same time try to convince others that you have the ultimate truth. And you surround yourself by likeminded people, go to church and listen to sermons so you can stay focused on what you have been convinced is truth and not let doubts creep into your mind, because whether you will admit it or not, those doubts are there. You just occupy your mind with what you want to believe so you don't have to think about them.


God is love and in him is no darkness at all.

You just got done saying that God was so infinitely holy that he can't have an imperfect being stand in his presence. Now you're saying he's all love and no darkness is in him. Yet you don't see the how this is contradictory and senseless and will simply say "we can't know everything now" or something to that effect. If you had ultimate truth then there would be no questioning. No one has ultimate truth. People only think they do.

Somewhere you got it twisted , and you now want to believe a lie.

Are you really 100% certain that I am believing a lie?

Roman 1-21,22:

21Because when they knew and recognized Him as God, they did not honor and glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. But instead they became futile and godless in their thinking with vain imaginings, foolish reasoning, and stupid speculations and their senseless minds were darkened.

22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves.

Again, you make great assumptions about me based on your limited view of God. I do believe in God. I just don't believe the same things about hir that you do. That doesn't make me wrong and you right, it just means that you've convinced yourself that you have ultimate truth. BTW, verse 22 could wholly be applied to Christians such as yourself, though you don't realize that.

Kelli

[Bringthetruth]

I simply don't believe that God is as the Bible portrays hir. You do realize that the Bible has countless contradictions, right? That's why there are so many different interpretations and different Christian denominations, because there are so many ways to interpret the book that was written by man in an attempt to explain God.



What you believe to be darkness may not necessarily be darkness.



When in prison there is hope for rehabilitation and redemption. In hell there is no hope for either. It is eternal with no hope for anything. Hell is cruel and pointless. Only a monster would invent something like hell. Do you plan on visiting your children or relatives who end up in hell? See why your analogy is flawed?



My way of thinking is neither new, exclusive to me, nor is it silly. If your god sends any human to a place like hell for eternity then he is a monster. I make no apologies for saying that. Your god is a god of coercion and fear. You don't love your god because he is good or because you just want to, you act like you love him, do what you think he wants you to do and say the things you think he wants you to say, out of fear. Deep down, if you are honest with yourself, you will realize this is true. Fear rules you, not the love of God.



Yes I know the Bible. I'm guessing that I may have read and studied it more than you have, to be quite frank. That is why I believe what I do about it. I gave up listening to people's hermeneutic explanations of scripture, which is a complicated web. Like lies, Biblical interpretations must dodge many Biblical contradictions. One interpretation explains another, and another and in the end you have a complicated mess in which you still have to ignore many important questions because there is no other way to interpret the Bible. It was written by people in their attempt to explain or persuade others what God is.

Simply put, just because I have studied the Bible and know it doesn't mean I believe all of it, or any of it. You are narrowminded in your thinking that if someone doesn't believe as you do that means they don't know the Scriptures. You only know and believe what you choose to believe from it. You know you have many unanswered questions yet you quietly place those questions in a dark back corner of your mind, while you at the same time try to convince others that you have the ultimate truth. And you surround yourself by likeminded people, go to church and listen to sermons so you can stay focused on what you have been convinced is truth and not let doubts creep into your mind, because whether you will admit it or not, those doubts are there. You just occupy your mind with what you want to believe so you don't have to think about them.




You just got done saying that God was so infinitely holy that he can't have an imperfect being stand in his presence. Now you're saying he's all love and no darkness is in him. Yet you don't see the how this is contradictory and senseless and will simply say "we can't know everything now" or something to that effect. If you had ultimate truth then there would be no questioning. No one has ultimate truth. People only think they do.



Are you really 100% certain that I am believing a lie?



Again, you make great assumptions about me based on your limited view of God. I do believe in God. I just don't believe the same things about hir that you do. That doesn't make me wrong and you right, it just means that you've convinced yourself that you have ultimate truth. BTW, verse 22 could wholly be applied to Christians such as yourself, though you don't realize that.

Kelli

Hey Kelli, I hope you know I'm not trying to belittle you in anyway, you have a right to believe what you want to.

Only when you try and say that God is a monster and you let satan go free without any accusation when that is who he really is (the accuser of the brethren), that is when it provoked me to defend him.

Can you describe the God of you're understanding to me.

[justKel]

Hey Kelli, I hope you know I'm not trying to belittle you in anyway, you have a right to believe what you want to.

It comes across that way yes, especially when you say that what I believe is "silly" and things like that. But I attribute the condescending nature of Christians to the very nature of Christianity, which is elitist, therefore I try not to take it personally like I used to.


Only when you try and say that God is a monster and you let satan go free without any accusation when that is who he really is (the accuser of the brethren), that is when it provoked me to defend him.

I don't accuse any such satan because I don't believe satan exists. And yes, I do see your version of God as being a monster. If he were here on earth in the flesh, ruling a country somewhere, we would be sending troops in to take him down. I find it fascinating how Christians don't see that, but it doesn't really surprise me because I lived it. Christians are somehow able to place themselves in a box so well that they don't allow themselves to think or really worry about the destructive and beastly nature of the deity they have chosen to follow. They're OK with the idea of condemnation and hell as long as they think they're not going there and they make at least a half-hearted effort to proselytize to get rid of any guilt they feel over the idea of others who might go there.

I also wonder why you feel the need to defend the God which you believe is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present. He already knows what I think and how I feel, right? So why does he need you to defend him? I'm sure if he exists as you believe he exists then he has heard it all from me already and would have no issue with dealing with me in his own way.


Can you describe the God of you're understanding to me.

My understanding of God is very limited, because I think there is much we cannot understand, at least not now. I believe in the spiritual because of my experiences and because of nature. I also believe evolution because it is an evident fact, but I believe the universe was initially created by something or something(s) or someone, but who or what exactly I don't know. It would likely be easier for me to describe what I believe God is not, rather than what I believe sie is.

I don't believe that God would play a cruel joke on hir creation, creating them imperfect or at least capable of doing wrong, and then condeming the majority of hir imperfect creation to eternal punishment just because they wouldn't pray a prayer to hir or get wet the right way. Such a being is not worthy of my respect anyway, and following such a being to save myself from that torture would mean I would not be true to myself.

I would rather be tortured for eternity knowing I was true to myself, rather than just performing for the sake of pleasing a beastial deity to save myself from his wrath. Likely I would not be alone, but I don't believe in that mythical idea of God anyway, so I don't worry about it and it doesn't matter.

I do believe we are spiritual creatures first and are here in the physical for some reason which I do not fully understand or know. Those are only my ideas, based on my personal experiences and brushes with the spiritual.


Kelli

[Bringthetruth]

It comes across that way yes, especially when you say that what I believe is "silly" and things like that. But I attribute the condescending nature of Christians to the very nature of Christianity, which is elitist, therefore I try not to take it personally like I used to.



I don't accuse any such satan because I don't believe satan exists. And yes, I do see your version of God as being a monster. If he were here on earth in the flesh, ruling a country somewhere, we would be sending troops in to take him down. I find it fascinating how Christians don't see that, but it doesn't really surprise me because I lived it. Christians are somehow able to place themselves in a box so well that they don't allow themselves to think or really worry about the destructive and beastly nature of the deity they have chosen to follow. They're OK with the idea of condemnation and hell as long as they think they're not going there and they make at least a half-hearted effort to proselytize to get rid of any guilt they feel over the idea of others who might go there.

I also wonder why you feel the need to defend the God which you believe is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present. He already knows what I think and how I feel, right? So why does he need you to defend him? I'm sure if he exists as you believe he exists then he has heard it all from me already and would have no issue with dealing with me in his own way.




My understanding of God is very limited, because I think there is much we cannot understand, at least not now. I believe in the spiritual because of my experiences and because of nature. I also believe evolution because it is an evident fact, but I believe the universe was initially created by something or something(s) or someone, but who or what exactly I don't know. It would likely be easier for me to describe what I believe God is not, rather than what I believe sie is.

I don't believe that God would play a cruel joke on hir creation, creating them imperfect or at least capable of doing wrong, and then condeming the majority of hir imperfect creation to eternal punishment just because they wouldn't pray a prayer to hir or get wet the right way. Such a being is not worthy of my respect anyway, and following such a being to save myself from that torture would mean I would not be true to myself.

I would rather be tortured for eternity knowing I was true to myself, rather than just performing for the sake of pleasing a beastial deity to save myself from his wrath. Likely I would not be alone, but I don't believe in that mythical idea of God anyway, so I don't worry about it and it doesn't matter.

I do believe we are spiritual creatures first and are here in the physical for some reason which I do not fully understand or know. Those are only my ideas, based on my personal experiences and brushes with the spiritual.


Kelli

Once you said you don't believe in satan, then I can't explain to you who's behind evil

[justKel]

Once you said you don't believe in satan, then I can't explain to you who's behind evil

That's OK because I don't wonder about that anyway and I don't believe that was a question I even asked you. I think evil is as evil does, meaning there isn't necessarily an entity behind it, it just exists.

Kelli

[run4it]

Once you said you don't believe in satan, then I can't explain to you who's behind evil
You're assuming that 'evil' is a thing that exists in a pure form.

one person's evil can be another's good.

[justKel]

You're assuming that 'evil' is a thing that exists in a pure form.

one person's evil can be another's good.

That's very true. War is a good example of that.

Kelli

[wheresthesun]

1) Yes, you told me you were Jewish. I did? when?I can only go by what you tell me. But then the rising purported himself a woman a couple of months ago. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I know the Jews are God's chosen people in all honesty, that means little to me, it's just a joke. Don't place me in a group that I don't belong to. I NEVER, EVER said one jot of anything derogatory about anyone Jewish or otherwise. You should be ashamed of yourself for even intimating such a thing.I'm not :p
2) There are not too many people "just like me" in fact, there are none.
4) You do hold me to some sort of pre determined in you head standard when you tell me, with rolly eyed smiley (woodstock) of how "Christian" I am being.bitch slapping is OK? well, ok then
5) How secure are you in your faith that you can't even begin to discuss it? Pretty damn secure. But don't feel the need to debate it (that's what this is, no discussion is possible with you--there must be a right or wrong outcome) with strangers on a message board. I know my faith like the back of my hand. Therefore I can, and do, discuss it. Then don't lie and say that it's not a religion and it's about your "heart," because if it were, you wouldn't be needing to prove yourself all the time.[QUOTE]
I have to go to work ...

[justKel]

There may or may not be a god or gods. If there is, I hope she ends up being a lesbian.

LOL, somehow I missed this. ROFLMAO! Damn straight! :p

Kelli

[Sylvan]

Originally Posted by Yorku There may or may not be a god or gods. If there is, I hope she ends up being a lesbian.

The world is already adversely imbalanced with estrogen, we dont need some god leading the human species into impulses like the Bonobo's. :p

[justKel]

It's about time estrogen started to outnumber testosterone. That's not a bad thing. How many millenia have women been oppressed by men? :rolleyes:

Aside from my son, I can only think of one man on this planet I would save, and unfortunately he is 10,000 km away at the moment.

Kelli

[Sylvan]

It's about time estrogen started to outnumber testosterone. That's not a bad thing. How many millenia have women been oppressed by men? :rolleyes:

Aside from my son, I can only think of one man on this planet I would save, and unfortunately he is 10,000 km away at the moment.

Kelli

Started? Civilization has been estrogen laden for 1000's of years. If it wasnt, the planet wouldnt be so over-populated. 6 billion is way too many and testosterone is not to blame for this one. :D

[Bringthetruth]

You're assuming that 'evil' is a thing that exists in a pure form.

one person's evil can be another's good.

Evil exist in many forms

[MERL J]

Romans 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools professing to be smart, they made simpletons of themselves.

Now, really, think about this. Who is to judge who is the wise and who is the simpleton? Or, in other words, right back atcha.

[Bringthetruth]

It comes across that way yes, especially when you say that what I believe is "silly" and things like that. But I attribute the condescending nature of Christians to the very nature of Christianity, which is elitist, therefore I try not to take it personally like I used to.



I don't accuse any such satan because I don't believe satan exists. And yes, I do see your version of God as being a monster. If he were here on earth in the flesh, ruling a country somewhere, we would be sending troops in to take him down. I find it fascinating how Christians don't see that, but it doesn't really surprise me because I lived it. Christians are somehow able to place themselves in a box so well that they don't allow themselves to think or really worry about the destructive and beastly nature of the deity they have chosen to follow. They're OK with the idea of condemnation and hell as long as they think they're not going there and they make at least a half-hearted effort to proselytize to get rid of any guilt they feel over the idea of others who might go there.

I also wonder why you feel the need to defend the God which you believe is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present. He already knows what I think and how I feel, right? So why does he need you to defend him? I'm sure if he exists as you believe he exists then he has heard it all from me already and would have no issue with dealing with me in his own way.




My understanding of God is very limited, because I think there is much we cannot understand, at least not now. I believe in the spiritual because of my experiences and because of nature. I also believe evolution because it is an evident fact, but I believe the universe was initially created by something or something(s) or someone, but who or what exactly I don't know. It would likely be easier for me to describe what I believe God is not, rather than what I believe sie is.

I don't believe that God would play a cruel joke on hir creation, creating them imperfect or at least capable of doing wrong, and then condeming the majority of hir imperfect creation to eternal punishment just because they wouldn't pray a prayer to hir or get wet the right way. Such a being is not worthy of my respect anyway, and following such a being to save myself from that torture would mean I would not be true to myself.

I would rather be tortured for eternity knowing I was true to myself, rather than just performing for the sake of pleasing a beastial deity to save myself from his wrath. Likely I would not be alone, but I don't believe in that mythical idea of God anyway, so I don't worry about it and it doesn't matter.

I do believe we are spiritual creatures first and are here in the physical for some reason which I do not fully understand or know. Those are only my ideas, based on my personal experiences and brushes with the spiritual.


Kelli

kelli, do you believe in demons ?

Do you even believe we were all born into sin ?

[MERL J]

kelli, do you believe in demons ?

Do you even believe we were all born into sin ?

bringingthetruth, do you consider yourself a man among men, superior to thise who do not believe on the same as you?

[NoCtUrNaL]

[QUOTE=Bringthetruth]If You were to die soon would you be ready to meet God ?

What's this "god" thing you speak of?

[justKel]

kelli, do you believe in demons ?

I'm not sure what I think about them. I am a paranormal researcher and unlike what you likely believe, I don't believe that everything in the perceptible fraction of the spiritual realm is a demon or an angel. I believe most are human and even animals, actually, but I do believe in lower spiritual beings that could be considered to be demons, depending on what your definition of a demon is.

Do you even believe we were all born into sin ?

I believe we are all born with the capability to choose and do right and wrong. I will qualify this statement by saying that right and wrong in many cases is relative depending on the society you live in and your upbringing, among other factors.

Why do you ask?

Kelli

[Bringthetruth]

I'm not sure what I think about them. I am a paranormal researcher and unlike what you likely believe, I don't believe that everything in the perceptible fraction of the spiritual realm is a demon or an angel. I believe most are human and even animals, actually, but I do believe in lower spiritual beings that could be considered to be demons, depending on what your definition of a demon is.



I believe we are all born with the capability to choose and do right and wrong. I will qualify this statement by saying that right and wrong in many cases is relative depending on the society you live in and your upbringing, among other factors.

Why do you ask?

Kelli


Just curious kelli.

Demons fulfills 3 roles.

#1They are intermedaries between God and man, sort of cosmic errand boys.
#2They control the destiny of people.
#3They posses people and compelled them to do evil things.


Is doing wrong considered sinning to you?

[justKel]

Just curious kelli.

Demons fulfills 3 roles.

#1They are intermedaries between God and man, sort of cosmic errand boys.
#2They control the destiny of people.
#3They posses people and compelled them to do evil things.


Is doing wrong considered sinning to you?

I thought Jesus was the only mediator between God and man?
I thought God was in control.
Have you ever actually witnessed a possession, or is this just something you've read about and watched on TV?
What is the definition of sin?

Kelli

[MERL J]

I thought Jesus was the only mediator between God and man?
I thought God was in control.
Have you ever actually witnessed a possession, or is this just something you've read about and watched on TV?
What is the definition of sin?

Kelli

Time to rebuke this one, Kel. Rebuke and caste it away.

[Bringthetruth]

I thought Jesus was the only mediator between God and man?
I thought God was in control.
Have you ever actually witnessed a possession, or is this just something you've read about and watched on TV?
What is the definition of sin?

Kelli
Demons need bodies to manifest themselves .

When I said intermedaries I meant, they run errands for satan not God.

God has holy angels to carry out his work with humans.

Of course I have witnessed a possession, it wasn't a pretty sight.

As for the definition of sin , will you accept the bible version?

[justKel]

Demons need bodies to manifest themselves .

Do they?

When I said intermedaries I meant, they run errands for satan not God.

Does it pay well? More than minimum wage I hope. Wait! Is Sam Walton really Satan?


God has holy angels to carry out his work with humans.

And they go to school to learn his work over on Shoshone St...?

Of course I have witnessed a possession, it wasn't a pretty sight.

Really? Care to share what it was like?

As for the definition of sin , will you accept the bible version?

What's your Bible interpretation of sin?

Kelli

[Bringthetruth]

My bible interpetation of sin is to habitualy miss the mark, only you would know what that means, plz leave your mother out of it(merl):)

[MERL J]

My bible interpetation of sin is to habitualy miss the mark, only you would know what that means, plz leave your mother out of it(merl):)

You are the definition of sardonic, aren't you? You have been concentrating on justkel without responses to anyone else. I believe you feel you may gain control. Although I am not her biological mother, I also believe that we are here to assure a smooth pathway for others. As I said before, the representation by you and buffalonymann can really damage other people's opinions of what exactly a Christian is. You do more harm than good.

[justKel]

My bible interpetation of sin is to habitualy miss the mark, only you would know what that means, plz leave your mother out of it(merl):)

Your "Bible" interpretation of sin would be incorrect in the eyes of most Christians. And Merl is free to say whatever she wants. What gives you the right to say who can post a response to you and who can't?

Kelli

[justKel]

Y I believe you feel you may gain control.

Well I can tell you that sure as hell won't happen. But I am glad there are people like you here on this forum. :)

Kelli

[run4it]

I'm Christian...I belong to a fairly well populated church, so I know I"m not completely alone in this world. But where the heck is the representation her from people who understand Christianity as simply an unconditionally loving relationship with both God and your brothers and sisters, certainly non-judgmental of either? It really doesn't have to be any more difficult than that.

[Bringthetruth]

Your "Bible" interpretation of sin would be incorrect in the eyes of most Christians.

Kelli

SO WHAT IS YOU'RE INTERPETATION OF SIN?

[justKel]

SO WHAT IS YOU'RE INTERPETATION OF SIN?

You wouldn't answer my question via PM, so why should I answer you? :p

[wheresthesun]

You wouldn't answer my question via PM, so why should I answer you? :p
Wise choice Kelli. Save your energy.

[wheresthesun]

SO WHAT IS YOU'RE INTERPETATION OF SIN?
Until you learn to spell you are from this point going forward banned from asking any questions, especially those written in CAPS! :p

[bigpoppapuff]

SO WHAT IS YOU'RE INTERPETATION OF SIN?


PETS????.....i have two dogs....love 'em both!!!

[Bringthetruth]

You wouldn't answer my question via PM, so why should I answer you? :p


I didn't think you would give me an answer on what is the interpretation of sin.

[justKel]

I didn't think you would give me an answer on what is the interpretation of sin.

So if I do that you will answer my PM question truthfully?

[MERL J]

Here, let me tell you my interpretation of what sin is.

Transgression against individuals, groups, or living things in general.

Causing consternation and chaos when peace should reign.

Believing that a human can judge as the Creator.

Not attempting to bring people together, but rather attempting to separate them.

As far as I'm concerned, that is sin. But, that's my own opinion that I hold dear in my heart. Others may have another concept of sin. Basically, when man becomes as a god, man elevates themselves to a higher power. That is sin.

[run4it]

Sin: Anything that impairs your relationship with God.

Going by that criteria, quite a few people have at least damaged their credibility with God with what they've posted on this board. I guess we should add a new passage to the bible: "Yeah, verily it be more Holy to cut off thine right hand than to type the blasphemous passages of thy infernal SUWNY!"

[Sylvan]

....when man becomes as a god, man elevates themselves to a higher power. That is sin.

Some call it "evolution" or "progress" or "intelligence" or "wisdom", etc etc etc....

[Sylvan]

Sin: Anything that impairs your relationship with God.

Going by that criteria, quite a few people have at least damaged their credibility with God with what they've posted on this board. I guess we should add a new passage to the bible: "Yeah, verily it be more Holy to cut off thine right hand than to type the blasphemous passages of thy infernal SUWNY!"

The choice for one to limit themself, I guess, is fine. The beef is when ones personal limitations are purposely instilled in others (spawns) and groups are formed to create a majority for speading suppression throughout a society by claiming the majority rules.

The only reason the religious have a majority is because its "easier" to breed ingorance instead of intelligence.

[Bringthetruth]

If there wan't a God who was absolute ruler over mankind,who has the ability to give life and allow it to be taken away ,all other opinions outside of the word of God would reign supreme.

So if you don't believe in God and that he reigns supreme in the whole universe, you wouldn't know how the chain of command works.

[Yorku]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/128877

[Sylvan]

If there wan't a God who was absolute ruler over mankind,who has the ability to give life and allow it to be taken away ,all other opinions outside of the word of God would reign supreme.

So if you don't believe in God and that he reigns supreme in the whole universe, you wouldn't know how the chain of command works.

I dont believe it because it has never been proven so a chain of command doesnt matter. The people who need to be commanded and who worry about it are wasting everyone elses time. Faith may have been a necessary element to civilized evolution, but there are now enough homosapiens who have reached a level of selfawareness and consciousness where it is time for the bullsh*t to stop.

Faith is nothing more than "believing your own lies". And when you teach a child to lie, you also condition that child to lie to others, and accept others' lies, in order to survive. This is the culture we live in, and is also the paradigm of previous cultures and empires that have faded away and/or collapsed.

Now earth is overpopulated, if the faithful choose to ignore this problem, humans risk extinction. If your god were real, dont you think it would rather you went extinct from a comet impact instead of being so dumb you allowed yourself to spread like a cancer? I would rather avoid disease and extinction, continue with technology, and travel around the galaxy gaining as much knowledge and truth needed to continue to evolve as a species.

Science "might" get humans closer to the source that we were created from. But if the religious and the faithful "dont feel like" waiting that long, and think death will get them the answers they want faster, why dont they just kill themselves now and STOP trying to prevent others from LIVING.

[Bringthetruth]

Funny , when people are in danger of dying even atheist they cry out "Oh My God"

[Yorku]

Funny , when people are in danger of dying even atheist they cry out "Oh My God"

Is that the same as Holy S**t?

[Bringthetruth]

I dont believe it because it has never been proven so a chain of command doesnt matter. The people who need to be commanded and who worry about it are wasting everyone elses time. Faith may have been a necessary element to civilized evolution, but there are now enough homosapiens who have reached a level of selfawareness and consciousness where it is time for the bullsh*t to stop.

Faith is nothing more than "believing your own lies". And when you teach a child to lie, you also condition that child to lie to others, and accept others' lies, in order to survive. This is the culture we live in, and is also the paradigm of previous cultures and empires that have faded away and/or collapsed.

Now earth is overpopulated, if the faithful choose to ignore this problem, humans risk extinction. If your god were real, dont you think it would rather you went extinct from a comet impact instead of being so dumb you allowed yourself to spread like a cancer? I would rather avoid disease and extinction, continue with technology, and travel around the galaxy gaining as much knowledge and truth needed to continue to evolve as a species.

Science "might" get humans closer to the source that we were created from. But if the religious and the faithful "dont feel like" waiting that long, and think death will get them the answers they want faster, why dont they just kill themselves now and STOP trying to prevent others from LIVING.

Now Faith is the substance hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

This is the only kind of faith acceptable by God and will triump in the worst of situations.

[Bringthetruth]

A man without God in his life is like a car without gasoline, looks good on the outside, but without God's Spirit within them they aren't going anywhere.
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